All shops going online eventually.

robj20 said:
It's been looked into before delivery vans are better than the cars that they replace. As above also commercial vehicles are ahead when it comes to emissions.
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The engines fitted to vans are the same engines they fit to cars.
 
nilagin said:
The engines fitted to vans are the same engines they fit to cars.
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That's not what I meant. Take DPD as an example they broke their own targets of having their fleet 0 emissions.
 
robj20 said:
It's been looked into before delivery vans are better than the cars that they replace. As above also commercial vehicles are ahead when it comes to emissions.
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Source please for information saying LCV are cleaner than cars?
 
nilagin said:
All council tax bands are the same across the borough, yet car park charges are not the same across the borough. As I have pointed out other towns within the borough have the first 1/2hrs free and we don't. Out of the whole borough there are two areas that have a high proportion of properties in the highest bands, ours is one of them. So with a higher income from council tax, why is parking more expensive in our town, than others in the borough?
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If the average council tax band is higher, the town is wealthier so it makes sense to charge more for car parks. It is likely that shop rents are higher as well, shop turnover is higher etc.
 
broc said:
You made a bold statement suggesting LCV were 'cleaner' than cars, all I am asking for is the evidence behind your claim?
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I didn't at all. I never mentioned "LCV".
I've edited my post to make it clearer what I meant.
Companies are progressing to zero emissions at a faster rate than cars are.
 
robj20 said:
That's not what I meant. Take DPD as an example they broke their own targets of having their fleet 0 emissions.
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That depends on what their targets are. All the DPD Van's around my way are still diesel. It doesn't mean commercial vehicles are more advanced than cars.
 
robj20 said:
I didn't at all. I never mentioned "LCV".
I've edited my post to make it clearer what I meant.
Companies are progressing to zero emissions at a faster rate than cars are.
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Delivery van = light commercial vehicle = LCV

Evidence to support your statement "Companies are progressing to zero emissions at a faster rate than cars are." ?

The EU targets for vehicle emissions are much higher for vans than cars, for example CO2 van target is 147 grams of CO2 per kilometre. For cars it is 95 grams of CO2 per kilometre.

Even though we are no longer part of the EU, vans imported to the UK are still being manufactured to meet the EU targets

Source : https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles_en
 
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john.margetts said:
If the average council tax band is higher, the town is wealthier so it makes sense to charge more for car parks. It is likely that shop rents are higher as well, shop turnover is higher etc.
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Shop turnover isn't higher, that's why they don't last long and end up closing down to be replaced by hair dressers, nail bars, take aways etc.
 
robj20 said:
Another thing going for online only it's it's more environmentally friendly less traffic in built up area, and less traffic in general.
Space saved by less car parking required.

I can not think of anything I can't get online. I haven't left the house to shop for years.
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I would love to see someone get an online haircut.
 
andya700 said:
I would love to see someone get an online haircut.
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I don't class a barbers as a shop, more a service. Much like i wouldn't class a restaurant as a shop.
But i cut my own hair anyway.
 
broc said:
Delivery van = light commercial vehicle = LCV

Evidence to support your statement "Companies are progressing to zero emissions at a faster rate than cars are." ?

The EU targets for vehicle emissions are much higher for vans than cars, for example CO2 van target is 147 grams of CO2 per kilometre. For cars it is 95 grams of CO2 per kilometre.

Even though we are no longer part of the EU, vans imported to the UK are still being manufactured to meet the EU targets

Source : https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles_en
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You're also forgetting that they don't send out one van per delivery. So say 50 people drive their cars to the shops, vs one van doing all of them, not to mention not all commerical vehicles are vans. I'd say 99% of my stuff comes by car.
So yeah i stand by my comments that companies ie Amazon and delivery companies, are much more environmentally friendly. My milk, bread and eggs come by EV also.
 
Is one LCV more environmental better than one car = NO
Is one LCV on a 40 multi-drop route better than 40 individual cars = Of course it bloody is, there is no debate
 
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robj20 said:
You're also forgetting that they don't send out one van per delivery. So say 50 people drive their cars to the shops, vs one van doing all of them, not to mention not all commerical vehicles are vans. I'd say 99% of my stuff comes by car.
So yeah i stand by my comments that companies ie Amazon and delivery companies, are much more environmentally friendly. My milk, bread and eggs come by EV also.
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The multi-drop delivery 'model' may be more environmentally friendly in an urban environment, but I am not convinced it is effective in a rural environment.
 
Sky said:
I did; started around 13/14 years ago: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wahl-Elite-Main-Hair-Clipper/dp/B00WZ1JV48/ref=sxin_10_lp-trr-2-eu_b2083c9fb1825a3a0725037a2330a3db2b6b8253?crid=132QK4M78P554&cv_ct_cx=wahl+hair+clippers+for+men&dchild=1&keywords=wahl+hair+clippers+for+men&pd_rd_i=B00WZ1JV48&pd_rd_r=90cf8297-5b6b-4e16-a024-c715864c5302&pd_rd_w=aYJWJ&pd_rd_wg=4zGZE&pf_rd_p=9638ffde-55fa-4ebc-ab40-e4183632410d&pf_rd_r=3E7KWAMP4V2WJVD7YDF8&qid=1614086175&sprefix=wahl,aps,189&sr=1-1-439ac954-ad46-4ba0-bd86-480f8aab80ed

I've saved enough to buy a new camera as a result. :cool:
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I just had my hair cut by the Mrs last night. She has done a pretty good job, I'll definitely be continue doing this from here on out. It's her 4th hair cut, twice on me, twice on our son.

broc said:
If I place 6-8 orders online at different stores & they all use different carriers to deliver, how does the multi-drop business model work then?
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Let's just think for one moment. Which method will generate lower CO2 for the item to be in an individual's home?

A. Item is transported to restock a shop with hundreds of other stuff, the shop needs to maintain comfortable climate for the shop floor until the item is sold, the item is then carried home for X number of miles to individual's home in the rural neighbourhood.

B. Item is stored in central warehouse, often can have bigger range of temperature. The item is transported with thousands of other stuff to distribution hubs. Last mile couriers deliver the item as part of their delivery route, perhaps 1 item out of 3 for the rural neighbourhood. Out of many neighbourhoods for one day.

Just remember one phrase: economy of scale.
 
robj20 said:
You're also forgetting that they don't send out one van per delivery. So say 50 people drive their cars to the shops, vs one van doing all of them, not to mention not all commerical vehicles are vans. I'd say 99% of my stuff comes by car.
So yeah i stand by my comments that companies ie Amazon and delivery companies, are much more environmentally friendly. My milk, bread and eggs come by EV also.
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A commercial vehicle is a van, pick up truck, Luton van, flat bed truck or lorry. Very few of those are currently electric or hybrid. A car is a car, just because someone delivering for Amazon uses their car to transport the parcels, that doesn't make it a commercial vehicle.
EV vans are relatively new compared to EV cars and I don't see their uptake as being anymore advanced than the uptake for EV cars at the moment
 
Sky said:
I did; started around 13/14 years ago: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wahl-Elite...9&sr=1-1-439ac954-ad46-4ba0-bd86-480f8aab80ed

I've saved enough to buy a new camera as a result. :cool:
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My wife is a trained hairdresser, she was training when I met her almost 35yrs ago. She hasn't cut my hair in about 25yrs. I do it myself with clippers on the side and back and scissors on top keeping that longer and spike it up with gel. I am thinking of growing it out and return to the centre or slightly off centre parting I used to have in my late teens and twenties. Don't think I will be growing it down to the middle of my back though. :)
 
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wyx087 said:
Let's just think for one moment. Which method will generate lower CO2 for the item to be in an individual's home?

A. Item is transported to restock a shop with hundreds of other stuff, the shop needs to maintain comfortable climate for the shop floor until the item is sold, the item is then carried home for X number of miles to individual's home in the rural neighbourhood.

B. Item is stored in central warehouse, often can have bigger range of temperature. The item is transported with thousands of other stuff to distribution hubs. Last mile couriers deliver the item as part of their delivery route, perhaps 1 item out of 3 for the rural neighbourhood. Out of many neighbourhoods for one day.

Just remember one phrase: economy of scale.
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That being the case, why is it we as a nation (at least prior to the pandemic) seem to continue to shop for food in supermarkets following your option (A) rather than have all of our food delivered option (B)? Why are we not benefitting from economies of scale in food delivery? If I recall correctly some supermarkets charge extra for delivery
 
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broc said:
That being the case, why is it we as a nation (at least prior to the pandemic) seem to continue to shop for food in supermarkets following your option (A) rather than have all of our food delivered option B)? Why are we not benefitting from economies of scale in food delivery? If I recall correctly some supermarkets charge extra for delivery
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Because it takes time for large scale social norms to shift.
 
I'm sorry, but I have to do this:
nilagin said:
EV vans are relatively new compared to EV cars and I don't see their uptake as being anymore advanced than the uptake for EV cars at the moment
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The cost benefit is clear: https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-d...y/electric-delivery-vehicle-trial#acc-i-60705
  • The trial electric vans, with their larger payload volumes, delivered on average 30 per cent more parcels per week compared to the smaller vehicles – helping to reduce congestion by making fewer trips
  • The overall electricity cost for charging up the trial vans was 75 per cent less than the fuel costs to run their diesel equivalents (2019 costs)
  • Socio-environmental benefits associated with electric vans replacing diesel equivalents (including cutting greenhouse gas emissions) equate to an estimated 1.8p to 2.6p benefit, per km driven, to Greater London
  • The trial Voltia and Vic-Young electric vans used five times less energy per km than their diesel equivalents.
  • Smart charging has reduced the grid connection size (kVA capacity) needed to accommodate the trial Gnewt Cargo fleet by over 100 per cent and the use of smart charging reduces the grid and operational charges associated with the trial electric van fleet
  • Total emissions savings for the completed trial (trial vans only) between November 2017 and end September 2019 are as follows:
    • PM10 – 1,136.8g
    • NOx – 481.3 kg
    • CO2 – 77.9 t (the equivalent to 142 return trips by road using a diesel Nissan NV200 van from Lands End to John O’Groats)
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No business is going to sit idle wasting money. They aren't:

DPD: https://www.dpd.co.uk/content/about...t-to-600-with-uks-first-MAN-electric-vans.jsp
Amazon: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/vans/107956/amazon-and-rivian-team-new-electric-delivery-van
UPS: https://www.theguardian.com/busines...van-maker-arrival-secures-340m-order-from-ups
British Gas (saw it in the news today): https://insideevs.com/news/489742/british-gas-orders-2000-vauxhall-vivaroe-vans/

Notice how big companies (Amazon and UPS) with capacities to influence and invest in other companies are working with new car companies to get EV's quicker?

I can only conclude the reason EV vans uptake is slow is because of supply constraints.
 
broc said:
That being the case, why is it we as a nation (at least prior to the pandemic) seem to continue to shop for food in supermarkets following your option (A) rather than have all of our food delivered option (B)? Why are we not benefitting from economies of scale in food delivery? If I recall correctly some supermarkets charge extra for delivery
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Because people like to shop. It’s a hobby and fun to do.

Also, when I buy online I do so because I need it. Browsing in shops I am more likely to impulse buy and potentially buy more. I am sure that is true in supermarkets, I see something on offer or not tried yet and I buy it.

Also on supermarkets why you would not want to choose your own meat or veg is beyond me. I want to buy the meat that is more appealing to me, like on steaks little fat and thicker rather than thinner.
 
broc said:
That being the case, why is it we as a nation (at least prior to the pandemic) seem to continue to shop for food in supermarkets following your option (A) rather than have all of our food delivered option (B)? Why are we not benefitting from economies of scale in food delivery? If I recall correctly some supermarkets charge extra for delivery
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Also, food is different to an item that is QC'd to be created as equal as possible.
3 weeks in a row now, my wife complains of the click+collect vegetable isn't as fresh as she would have picked.

There are things that are made to be delivered, anything in Curry's and Smyth Toys for example. Processed food is also good for delivery. There are also things that need to be picked or tested out, vegetables, clothing, shoes, etc. I still quite like the showroom idea.
 
wyx087 said:
Also, food is different to an item that is QC'd to be created as equal as possible.
3 weeks in a row now, my wife complains of the click+collect vegetable isn't as fresh as she would have picked.

There are things that are made to be delivered, anything in Curry's and Smyth Toys for example. Processed food is also good for delivery. There are also things that need to be picked or tested out, vegetables, clothing, shoes, etc. I still quite like the showroom idea.
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It depends where you get your veg from.
We have been having veg & fruit deliveries weekly for about 10 years now, in all that time we have had 1 lot of sub-standard apples and 1 broken egg. We were refunded the cost of the apples and 6 eggs, they also sent a veg cook book as compensation.
 
cambsno said:
Because people like to shop. It’s a hobby and fun to do.

Also, when I buy online I do so because I need it. Browsing in shops I am more likely to impulse buy and potentially buy more. I am sure that is true in supermarkets, I see something on offer or not tried yet and I buy it.

Also on supermarkets why you would not want to choose your own meat or veg is beyond me. I want to buy the meat that is more appealing to me, like on steaks little fat and thicker rather than thinner.
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Totally agree, we would never let someone else choose meat, fish, fruit, veg or eggs for us. I wouldn't buy a pair of shoes or training shoes online, I want to make sure they fit properly. The same goes for shirts, trousers and jackets/coats.
 
Suvv said:
It depends where you get your veg from.
We have been having veg & fruit deliveries weekly for about 10 years now, in all that time we have had 1 lot of sub-standard apples and 1 broken egg. We were refunded the cost of the apples and 6 eggs, they also sent a veg cook book as compensation.
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Wow, nice!

Where from, may I ask?
 
We discovered Sainsbury's delivery service at the beginning of this whole palaver and think it's great. Neither of us would now give serious consideration to going round a shop with a trolley and the rest of it. Still, as our American relatives have been known to say: "Different strokes for different folks". :naughty:
 
I suppose we could do a food shop online, besides it may be the only option one day in the not too distant future.
Trouble is, you can't pick a nice cut of meat or unbruised fruit etc. Might not get the choice in the future. :oops: :$
 
TBH, I think there will always be a demand for buying food in person if only for the reasons noted above.
 
Suvv said:
We use Riverford Organic, they do meat as well but we are vegetarian.
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We used to get deliveries from Riverford - they're not far away from us so the food miles weren't too high. Unfortunately there was a very wet summer so we got lots of expensive compost and just an apology that boiled down to "we can't control the weather". Now (well, in more normal times!) try to get to farm shops, although those seem to be buying more stuff in than they actually grow themselves.

Marc said:
TBH, I think there will always be a demand for buying food in person if only for the reasons noted above.
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Yup, we like to be able to choose fresh produce. Happy to get most stuff delivered but can't wait to choose fruit, veg and meat again.
 
I do know of a Chinese takeway that went online only, a good few years ago. They had a small unit and just did deliveries only. maybe they foresaw the future.
 
jonbeeza said:
I do know of a Chinese takeway that went online only, a good few years ago. They had a small unit and just did deliveries only. maybe they foresaw the future.
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Good plan. Less chance of a misunderstanding due to language or something not being written down correctly. I much prefer ordering my takeaways online - very little chance of getting the wrong food delivered. (y)

Sadly, my local ones don't offer this (I've just moved). One has a Faceache page apparently, but I won't go near that toxic site.
 
jonbeeza said:
I suppose we could do a food shop online, besides it may be the only option one day in the not too distant future.
Trouble is, you can't pick a nice cut of meat or unbruised fruit etc. Might not get the choice in the future. :oops: :$
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I am very particular about my food, not just one piece of meat over another etc., but I don't like the idea of an out of stock item being replaced by something else. I buy alot of frozen fruit and veg, if they don't have any in Tesco when I go, I will buy fresh, but a smaller amount, and nip into the Tesco near work on another day to see if I can get the frozen stuff. I don't want someone picking something different for me when there is a strong likelihood I won't eat it.
 
nilagin said:
I am very particular about my food, not just one piece of meat over another etc., but I don't like the idea of an out of stock item being replaced by something else. I buy alot of frozen fruit and veg, if they don't have any in Tesco when I go, I will buy fresh, but a smaller amount, and nip into the Tesco near work on another day to see if I can get the frozen stuff. I don't want someone picking something different for me when there is a strong likelihood I won't eat it.
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Sainsburys will let you decline substitutions if you don't want them, not sure about the other supermarkets......
 
broc said:
Sainsburys will let you decline substitutions if you don't want them, not sure about the other supermarkets......
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They'll all let you decline substitutions, they have to. Most, I think will have a setting to say no substitutions if you want although I think Neil's point was that if he is in the store and they haven't got what he wants, he can get some fresh to tide hime over.
 
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