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  1. jerry12953

    jerry12953

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    Jeremy Moore
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    There is obviously a very high level of unhappiness about the direction that Adobe is taking with Lightroom, and not only the ending of the perpetual licence, They clearly see mobile as the future and also seem determined to move everything into the cloud. I know this is being discussed in other threads but my point here is slightly different.

    It seems likely that many people will be looking into alternatives to Lightroom in the short/medium term. As far as I'm aware there is as yet no alternative. I'm just wondering what the chances are of other developers coming up with what Lightroom users will be looking for? Importantly any new software will need to compatible with users' present catalogues. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

    And I don't mean take up stamp collecting.
     
  2. PaulButler

    PaulButler

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    Well ... you could try basket weaving instead ;)

    Macphun are doing a DAM module for Luminar, apparently it will be available next year. I'm sure other companies will too, as now will be the time to get unhappy LR users on board. Whether it is anu good or not will be in the using so to speak.

    I have tried Luminar for Windows (beta) and tbh wasn't overly impressed, the responses from the Macphun team were dire and borderline derisive too so it is unlikely I will become a customer. The Windows product seems very much an after thought (clue is in the company name "mac"phun, but there is no fun using it!!).

    I doubt too many will have the ability to import catalogs from LR though.

    DxO has their projects structure which is a sort of DAM, whether they expand that or not will be worth watching, it is a good product (if a bit all or nothing).
     
  3. ecoleman

    ecoleman

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    I already posted an alternative but everybody was to busy moaning to notice. Coming 2018

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=9FCHmJiF894

    Like Paul above, I have also trialled Macphun. It was on my Mac for all of a couple of hours. It's terrible.

    I've also tried On1, Capture One and DXO and Affinity (both of which I actually own the latest version). I always come back to LR and PS and is the reason why I think it's value for money. You get what you pay for.

    I'm sure others will jump in to snap up Adobe customers but right now, none of them are anywhere near as good.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  4. jerry12953

    jerry12953

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    As far as that short trailer (Luminar?) is concerned I'm not at all impressed. I can't imagine many LR users will be rushing to move the sun around their images.......

    And DAM? Does that refer to the catalogue function, or development?
     
  5. Eloise

    Eloise

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    Eloise
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    DAM is Digital Assets Management (iirc) ... in other words ... the catalogue function!
     
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  6. PaulButler

    PaulButler

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    Sorry my bad, in work mode so acronyms galore ... DAM = Digital Asset Management, i.e. the function the LR catalogue performs in allowing you (me/us everyone who uses it) to manage your photos (digital assets).

    tbh I haven't found anything that compares with the LR catalogue, once I'd spent some time working out how I wanted to use it. It just works so well.
     
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  7. Eloise

    Eloise

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    A question ... if you use Adobe presents in other software, will you even get the same results as the other software will use different processing?
     
  8. PaulButler

    PaulButler

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    Also to add, the DAM part isn't the bit that does the editing ... just the organising.
     
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  9. jerry12953

    jerry12953

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    Ta!

    I'm not particularly technically minded so can someone explain in simple terms what has prevented other sofware companies from already developing a LR alternative?
     
  10. Box Brownie

    Box Brownie

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    Well....................before I went the LR route I did start to use IDImager and cannot now recall (still installed but unused for ages!) but with your OP it prompted me to go see what "they" were up to now and found they are now offering an apparently much updated product called Photo Supreme (sounds a tad cheesy to me ;) )

    Here is the link http://www.idimager.com/WP/?page_id=20 there are intro videos to view.

    FWIW at $99 it is not cheap but as I am a licenced use of the old IDI version5 I it seems can get a 30% discount....................food for thought maybe???

    Edit ~ in regard to the DAM only versus the likes of LR which is a DAM & editing program ~ of what I have read about the likes of Capture 1 and I think DxO (???) they are good editors but lack the depth of DAM functioning that LR has so perhaps this is where we need a decent DAM program and may a decent LR alternative editor is out but I have not to date bothered to investigate mush about making a change.

    PS If Photo Supreme can read the LR keywording that would add to the possibilities because without that function there will be a lot of re-keywording required by e and many others who make a switch to alternate DAM programs?
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  11. PaulButler

    PaulButler

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    If you google DAM for photographers it brings up quite a list of topics/products. It's not so much what prevents it from being done as to what likely market there is. Some may disagree but LR is probably the best there is for DAM for photographers - especially in the more general purpose or generic sense. It is very flexible and customisable with a lot of third party options too (plugins etc). It also has a massive user base and is a very mature product.

    To develop from the ground up would take a lot of time, re-invent the wheel and you would have to weigh the likely return on that time. Hundreds, if not thousands of man hours I'd suspect - remember it has to work on mac and windows as well as mobile devices etc ...
     
  12. Eloise

    Eloise

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    I don't think theres been any technical imperative to others developing an alternative - remember there was Apple Aperture as a competitor for a long time. Its just Adobe Photoshop Lightroom (to give it its full title) has had a defacto monopoly amongst professionals has meant others were reluctant to put resources into the task. Its like there is nothing stopping people creating competitors to MS Office ... but none have really got much of a hold in the market place.

    Perhaps this will change with the dropping of LR6 standalone...
     
  13. Playdohh

    Playdohh

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    Adam
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    I've heard a lot of noise coming from the capture one users in recent months but I must admit not not tried it myself. From what i can see though it's become a very comprehensive piece of software.
     
  14. Box Brownie

    Box Brownie

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  15. jerry12953

    jerry12953

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    Thanks for all the replies. I'm not planning to move from LR in the near future but it's something I'll be looking at over the next couple of years, as i'm sure many others will. The main problem with LR must be that it is so good, then, hence the lack of competition, rather than there being a technical challenge in doing so.

    From what I've read Affinity is a very good Photoshop alternative already so perhaps they will also be looking at a LR alternative as well. Here's hoping!
     
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  16. wave01

    wave01

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    RIP Aperture
     
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  17. ecoleman

    ecoleman

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    Capture one is a very good editor. I’ve trialled it a couple of times and been very impressed with its editing capabilities. It falls down when it comes to asset management.
    DXO IMHO is a bit clunky and is only global adjustments ie no brush editing, no grad filters etc. What you do is applied to the entire image and again no asset management. I have DXO paid version and use it as a plug in for noisy images. DXO has excellent noise reduction capabilities.

    On1 I own v10 and have used them from v7. At every update they promise the earth but never deliver. The software is slow and always crashing. Their latest offering has some sort of DAM but I’ve fallen for their marketing promised to many times now so won’t be trying this version.
     
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  18. gcogger

    gcogger

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    Graeme
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    I've trialled a few RAW processors recently, looking for alternatives to Adobe CC, but not paid too much attention to the DAM side.
    For my purposes, Affinity Photo could easily serve as a Photoshop replacement.
    Of the ones I tried for RAW processing, I thought Capture One and DXO produced slightly better output than Lightroom, ON1 slightly poorer, and Affinity Photo poorer still. (To be fair, Affinity Photo is mostly a pixel editor, and not sold on the basis of its RAW processing).
    I'd be happy to move to Capture One, the main hindrance being the price.
    I'd be OK with DXO too (cheaper than Capture One), except for the lack of any local edits capability. I use those tools quite a lot in Lightroom.
    ON1 has a built-in DAM, but I didn't pay much attention to that side of things. It seems to be good software, and does most of what Lightroom does. I just felt that the output quality was slightly, but noticeably, inferior to Lightroom.
    The net result was that I stayed with Lightroom...
     
  19. SsSsSsSsSnake

    SsSsSsSsSnake

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    For pros,no idea,but for hobbyists on Mac's I love photos organisation and it's faster than ,LR, used along with dxo pro and affinity photo does all I need,might for you too
     
  20. Cheffievrs

    Cheffievrs

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    Jason
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    I’m still using Aperture..
     
  21. SsSsSsSsSnake

    SsSsSsSsSnake

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    And why not indeed
     
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  22. Playdohh

    Playdohh

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    Have you got any links Snake? I think I'd be happy to separate my DAM from the editor if the benefit's were great enough.

    Also apparently a version of CaptureOne is available for free to sony users - clicky, so I might be trying that out.
     
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  23. Brian G

    Brian G

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  24. Brian G

    Brian G

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    Before I adopted Lightroom, I tried both iMatch and IDimager, the latter of which turned into the euphemistically named Photo Supreme.
    Both of these can read LR generated keywords (and vice versa) and easily link to an external editor.
    Although it's now been comprehensively rewritten, I just could not get on with iMatch and I found IDimager a lot more user friendly.
    Unfortunately they want money to upgrade from iMatch to the latest version and also from IDimager to PhotoSupreme, and since I now use Lightroom I'm not inclined to change.
    I have the free Sony version of C1 and I've tried it, but because I have several cameras, I prefer to use Lightroom for all of them, to maintain a consistent interface.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  25. Playdohh

    Playdohh

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    Adam
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    I've never heard of Alien Skin before but you're correct, certainly looks like it might be worth the trial at least. I found this video of the software in action if anyone is interested.

    Didn't see a noticeable benefit in the other software compared to Lightroom then I take it?

    From what I've read/heard I think this is the issue; although there is competition out there for Lightroom in regards to RAW editors and DAM's no single piece of software trumps lightroom across the board. Along with this the benefits (if any) of single focused software is balanced against the in-convenience of having to then manage multiple pieces of software. I don't know, I'll stop here, before a real incomprehensible ramble begins!:ROFLMAO:
     
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  26. SsSsSsSsSnake

    SsSsSsSsSnake

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    I had the Sony capture 1 ,very very good
     
  27. SsSsSsSsSnake

    SsSsSsSsSnake

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    Links for ?
     
  28. SsSsSsSsSnake

    SsSsSsSsSnake

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    Just to be clear,
    Photos app free with Mac's .
    Dxo for photos in app store,I'm on android phone at Mo so can't link and Affinity photo in app store ,try the 10 day trial,you don't need to leave photos either way with both
     
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  29. Brian G

    Brian G

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    It wasn't so much a benefit, rather than Lightroom offered a "one stop" solution to both DAM and raw development.

    In the case of both iMatch and IDimager (aka Photo Supreme) they are both the product of a single software developer, and as such represent the views of how one person thinks DAM should work.
    As I said, I found iMatch to be rather "clunky" in the way it handled and stored XMP files, although I believe the re-written version has improved on this.
    I had no such problems with, and preferred, IDimager, but as I say, I found Lightroom the most user friendly and easiest to use.
    Now I'm using Lightroom I have no interest in an external DAM (until of course, I can no longer run Lightroom.)

    In a way all this controversy about Lightroom can only be a good thing, since there seem to be a number of new companies around with raw development software (OnOne, Exposure X3, in addition to the already established Capture One, ACDSee, DXO, Corel Aftershot and others)
    I'm also expecting Topaz Labs to be joining the party at some point.
    I think it's safe to say the raw developer software market has never been healthier, which can only be a good thing for the end user
    Whether they can also include a workable DAM remains to be seen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  30. Playdohh

    Playdohh

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    Adam
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    haha, please ignore me I just re-read your post and it makes sense now. I initally thought you were sharing your love for a program called 'Photos Organisation', not praising Apple's 'Photos' for it's organisation :facepalm:
     
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  31. Playdohh

    Playdohh

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    That's it isn't it, one-stop convenience.

    Like you say, this can only spur on the competition and if we can see this is the only real thing adobe has over the competition no doubt they have. You never know you might find a couple of developers collaborating or consolidating as it were to offer a better all round experience. Guess only time will tell but I think it's exciting none the less.
     
  32. PhilH04

    PhilH04

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    One that hasn't been mentioned is Darktable which is free for Mac and Linux and in beta for Windows, I have been meaning to give it a test, just to see if it is any good, but not gotten round to it yet.

    Apparently it is a Lightroom 'clone'.
     
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  33. Eloise

    Eloise

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    The great thing about Aperture is that it uses the Apple RAW processor ... so its still getting updated with new cameras (afaik)
    If you want DXO... http://www.dxo.com/us/practicalphotography
     
  34. Brian G

    Brian G

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    Thanks for the link, I watched the demo video.
    He's not the best at explaining and I wasn't keen on the choice of subject, in fact tonally I think I preferred the "before" rather than "after," but it looks interesting.
    Theres another demo of ExposureX3 here, which gives more of an outline of it's features.
     
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  35. rjbell

    rjbell

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    Lightzone is another free one which has favourable reviews.
     
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  36. Retune

    Retune

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    I assume the same is true of Hasselblad's Phocus, which apparently supports 200 raw formats on the Mac, but only their own format and DNG (plus tiff/jpeg/png) on Windows:

    http://www.hasselblad.com/software/phocus

    Is anyone using this on the Mac? (free download).
     
  37. Retune

    Retune

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    Apparently they are, or at least a DAM package of some description: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/25835-digital-asset-management/
    Raw processing hasn't been their strong point up to now, though Affinity Photo is otherwise an excellent, full-featured editor.
     
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  38. Brian G

    Brian G

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    Before I adopted Lightroom, LightZone was my preferred choice of raw developer.
    It's very good, but Lightroom has better highlight recovery.
     
  39. Box Brownie

    Box Brownie

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    I was an early adopter of the original LZ and IMO it was good and had great potential but when it got into trouble/went out of business I think it went into the public development domain.

    The last time I looked the starting innovative Dev team were not involved and it was them that I had confidence in for the future :(

    That you talk of it I surmise says it has moved on? Must look it up again :)
     
  40. SsSsSsSsSnake

    SsSsSsSsSnake

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    Grab this before 30th nov for free.the paid £10 ext for apple photos has a coupleof advanced options worth looking into but the free version has a few things not in the ext.i have both which made sense.thanks for posting link Eloise
     

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