An Independent Scotland?

I asked earlier I think...would ex pats living outside Scotland get a vote on Independence? Does it make a difference?
 
What is this You business? I'm not an MP anywhere!

Fwiw I would not be upset if English resident Scots MPs had to quit, it has zero effect on me up here, so if you and the rest down south want rid of them, go for it.
 
The reason why I am posting so much is that I don't want The UK to be split up and I am proud of our conglomerate. I even like the Isle of Man.
 
Also will an independent scotland be giving the orkneys and shetlands, and hebrides etc a right to self determination :LOL:
 
Steep said:
Let me say that I'm not at all sure staying part of the EU is a good idea, there are other options, all of which I hope will be explored fully beforehand.

I'm not sure what you mean by not sharing the cake, but I see no point having cake and not eating it, that goes against the principles of cake!
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I with you lets eat more cake ! ( Dundee cake ):LOL:
 
Tried to get access to the Lab website for biographies but it is having a tizzy fit so I will have to try again later for the info Graham.
 
tiler65 said:
I asked earlier I think...would ex pats living outside Scotland get a vote on Independence? Does it make a difference?
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No m8 I don't think so, only Scottish residents (of any nationality or creed) would get to vote.
 
Steep said:
No m8 I don't think so, only Scottish residents (of any nationality or creed) would get to vote.
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So all the 'English' folk living there can vote on Scottish independence?
 
and another thing who gets to vote?? I live in Scotland and was born in England. But I wouldnt want some tit living in London who was born in Scotland telling us what to do... OOps sorry mr Cameron.. :)
 
I do think the Labour party would be bricking it over Independence, without the Scots vote I don't think there would be a Labour led government in Westminster before hell freezes over.
 
tiler65 said:
So all the 'English' folk living there can vote on Scottish independence?
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As I understand it, anyone who has made their home here will be eligible to vote.
 
big soft moose said:
Come to than an independent england might choose to leave the EU - at which point scots ex pats living south of the border wouldnt have an automatic right of residency
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If England did leave the EU it would become the Travis Bickle of nations, remember you no longer have an empire to rely on as trading partners.....
 
Steep said:
I do think the Labour party would be bricking it over Independence, without the Scots vote I don't think there would be a Labour led government in Westminster before hell freezes over.
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So now you admit that Scots have had the biggest influence on the british government ! make your mind up !
 
we11ingon said:
So now you admit that Scots have had the biggest influence on the british government ! make your mind up !
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Sorry, don't understand that reference.
 
we11ingon said:
and another thing who gets to vote?? I live in Scotland and was born in England. But I wouldnt want some tit living in London who was born in Scotland telling us what to do... OOps sorry mr Cameron.. :)
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David Cameron was born in London......
 
You want more power but by the statement you think we have already had it ...
 
we11ingon said:
I seem to remember it was a scottish king that united the UK in the first place.... Did the english complain about having a scottish king..?
Snip
Defence is another. We were the strongest nation in the history of the world when we were united now it seems we are rushing towards being a tiny unimportant principality. We would also be the most highly taxed nation on earth per capita. Look to Norway for comparisons.... Ultra high taxes. Expensive luxury goods and misery ensues. No thanks, I do not want to live in a third world country
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There's a couple of points there, back in James the Sixth time the real separation was between landed gentry and 'the rest', nationality was just a convenience. I expect a lot of English folk did complain but quietly since it tended to be bad for your health back then.

Britain was the strongest nation in the world for a while true but that's nothing to be proud of, we did it through slavery robbery and murder.

I can't speak for Norway but once again the question of where the money to run the country comes from is one that will have to be answered before the vote.
 
If Scotland goes independent, they will have to take over their share of the national debt, estimated at around £40BN, that's not including the RBS bank.

Who would pay for the decommission of Dounreay, another £2.5BN (at current prices but going up all the time)

Who would run Scotland Financial Services Compensation Scheme (were if a bank goes bust you get up to 85K of your savings back)

Can Scotland afford to fill the black hole of public sector pension liability.

What currency would they have, and who would be the lender of last resort.

Will the non Scottish UK want their Nuclear subs based in a foreign country, or will those high skill jobs be moved else where.

Salmond has implied for years that Scotland can leave broken England and join the happy and prosperous EU, where little Scotland will have a bigger say in things, well Greece has shown how that works out, you get TOLD by France and Germany what to do.

As I heard on TV this week Salmond has had no real political opposition to his plans from the other parties in Scotland for years, but he is now playing with the big boys and things are not going to go all his way.

When you hear his speeches he is playing the same tricks as Mugabe and saying Scotland will not be told what to and bullied by England. Problem for Salmond is the Scottish people are not a load of illiterate bush farmers and that just wont work, they are much more aware of the real issues.
 
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we11ingon said:
I seem to remember it was a scottish king that united the UK in the first place.... Did the english complain about having a scottish king..? Prime minister.. ? No, and we elected him too. Sure, I'd like more even more autonomy for Scotland! What we have got just now is proving pretty successful. I just cant imagine its a good idea to be fully independent. The health service alone is one reason. Defence is another. We were the strongest nation in the history of the world when we were united now it seems we are rushing towards being a tiny unimportant principality. We would also be the most highly taxed nation on earth per capita. Look to Norway for comparisons.... Ultra high taxes. Expensive luxury goods and misery ensues. No thanks, I do not want to live in a third world country
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Hmm, James I and VI inherited the English throne from Elizabeth Tudor, uniting the crowns in 1603. There is quite a bit of evidence that this didn't sit too well with some of his new English subjects. The parliaments weren't joined for another 100 years though, so a British monarch and separate parliaments has precedent.

I was born and brought up in Scotland - Scots father and South African mother - but have lived overseas for most of my life. I don't feel very strongly about this at all, but I do agree with you that it's being rushed. AS wants to get his name in the history books, and I sense that this is going to become more of an emotional issue than anything.
 
acetone said:
What currency would they have, and who would be the lender of last resort.
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The Neep.

1 Neep = £1.10

100 Tatties = 1 Neep

As for the national debt, I would think we'd take on pretty much what we already pay for now, an awful lot of arguments seem to based around folk thinking we do not currently contribute anything to the central coffers, we pay our share.
 
A Haggis will be akin to the English Guinea, equal to 1 Neep and 5 Tatties but will only be used in cattle auctions.

Pint of heavy sir? that'll be 2 Neeps and a Tattie, 500 Haggis for your prize bull you say? that's magic!
 
tiler65 said:
The reason why I am posting so much is that I don't want The UK to be split up and I am proud of our conglomerate. I even like the Isle of Man.
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Sorry Tom but the IOM is not part of the UK.
 
Alex Salmond advised Fred the Shred to buy ABN Amro. For that reason alone no-one should listen to him about any economic matters. A 1BN surplus is peanuts. That's nowhere near enough to run a country with if there is no longer the rest of the UK infrastructure to rely on. Article mentions it being 1% of Scotland's GDP. You'd need a heck of a lot more than that spare to even risk it.
 
Steep said:
You missed my post earlier, both Scotland and the remaining UK would keep their EU membership as "Successor States".
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I wouldn't be too sure of that, it seems possible other EU states could veto any EU application made by Scotland (and have done so in the past with Kosovo).

Mr Salmond and Scotland might well find themselves all alone in the cold if they do manage to force independence through.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...eto-over-scotlands-eu-membership-6292846.html

Spain could wield veto over Scotland's EU membership

Spain is standing in the way of Scotland's ambitions to become an independent nation within the European Union because of fears that it could spark the break-up of the Spanish state.

Spanish officials have registered concerns with counterparts in the United Kingdom over the Scottish government's independence blueprint, senior Whitehall sources confirmed yesterday.

Spain has indicated it could block an independent Scotland's accession to the European Union, sources said. It has already refused to recognise Kosovo's existence as an independent state. Madrid fears such moves will encourage separatist ambitions in Spanish regions, particularly Catalonia and the Basque region. Spain's refusal to recognise Kosovo has frustrated the former Serbian province's ambitions to enter the union.

The Catalan premier, Artur Mas, last week drew parallels with Scotland as he argued for a new financial deal with Madrid. "Spain refuses to speak publicly about Scotland at this stage," a senior Foreign Office source said yesterday. "But they have been making it clear for a number of years they are apprehensive about the prospect of Scotland becoming independent. The renewed debate about the referendum has started it all again."

A senior UK minister said: "We understand the Scottish view is they would wish to join the UN but they would not wish to join Nato. They might wish to join the EU, but we fully expect Spain to block it, fearing it might encourage the separatist spirit on their doorstep."

A Spanish veto would undermine claims an independent Scotland could immediately operate as a viable state. Although Alex Salmond insists Scotland would be able to join the EU following a "yes" vote in a referendum, experts maintain membership would not come automatically.

An official House of Commons briefing paper on the subject points out decisions on membership must be agreed unanimously by all EU member states. It added: "It is worth considering, if there is a continuing UK, it would have a vote on an independent Scotland's accession application, as would other member states with their own internal regional independence issues, such as Spain."
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Dave1 said:
I wouldn't be too sure of that, it seems possible other EU states could veto any EU application made by Scotland (and have done so in the past with Kosovo).

Mr Salmond and Scotland might well find themselves all alone in the cold if they do manage to force independence through.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/spain-could-wield-veto-over-scotlands-eu-membership-6292846.html
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I wouldn't worry about Spain, by the time the referendum comes around they'll be destitute and there's no way the EU would throw away the chance of another source of revenue on the say so of a country that will probably by then have defaulted on it's loan repayments....
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I wouldn't worry about Spain, by the time the referendum comes around they'll be destitute and there's no way the EU would throw away the chance of another source of revenue on the say so of a country that will probably by then have defaulted on it's loan repayments....
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It wouldn't matter what the EU stance was (just like when Cameron vetoed the financial package a few weeks back), accession to the EU requires unanimous approval of ALL EU countries.

Theoretically even the "new" UK minus Scotland could veto Scotlands application. And you are mistaken if you think Spain won't be party to the decision, they could very well veto it rather than give their own nationalistic little nations encouragement to head down the same path as Scotland they will, it will be a lesson to their own and Scotland would be the one to suffer. Visas for Europe, no common market, import taxes into the EU (and therefore into the "new" UK as well).

There is a lot more to the story than "Braveheart" Salmond would like to think (or get the the people of Scotland to believe).
 
Dave1 said:
It wouldn't matter what the EU stance was (just like when Cameron vetoed the financial package a few weeks back), accession to the EU requires unanimous approval of ALL EU countries.

Theoretically even the "new" UK minus Scotland could veto Scotlands application. And you are mistaken if you think Spain won't be party to the decision, they could very well veto it rather than give their own nationalistic little nations encouragement to head down the same path as Scotland they will, it will be a lesson to their own and Scotland would be the one to suffer. Visas for Europe, no common market, import taxes into the EU (and therefore into the "new" UK as well).

There is a lot more to the story than "Braveheart" Salmond would like to think (or get the the people of Scotland to believe).
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I think you'll find that the desire to introduce another revenue to stream would see France and Germany applying pressure to Spain to ensure they don't rock the boat....
 
There is a difference though, Yugoslavia was never an EU member and Kosovo is applying to join the EU where, as I understand it, Scotland/UK would be keeping an existing membership as successor states not applying to join. I'm sure it's more complicated than that and if it's not then various interested parties will try to muddy the waters to suit their own agendas between now and the vote.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
If England did leave the EU it would become the Travis Bickle of nations, remember you no longer have an empire to rely on as trading partners.....
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unless the whole eurozone debt crisis goes pop, and which point with france and germanys economies creaking under the weight of trying to prop up greece, spain, italy etc a Non EU england could be laughing , while an EU scotland struggles to pay it proportion of the bail out out of its woefully small GNP
 
I hope the Scottish say no. No reason other than more borders are a bad thing.
 
It seems to me that Scottish opinion polls show a minority wanting independence.

Mr Salmond wants 16 and 17 year olds' to have the right to vote as he hopes they will sway the percentage. However will those same teenagers then lose the right to vote after that?

Then there is there effect or not of the Schengen agreement depending on whatever Scotland opts in or out of the Single market.

As the UK as a whole has opted out of Schengen, then Scottish citizens would require a passport to enter England. Try running that scheme!!!

Of course opting in means Scottish borders do not exist within the signatories so Scotland may become a target for legal mass immigration from Europe.
 
I'm not massively into politics and it's difficult to know what to believe but the reliance on oil certainly shouldn't be a determining factor as it's a finite resource. However, we are making excellent progress with other types of power and I believe we have a large percentage of Europe's tidal capacity or something or that sort.

However, as for the comments about "we give Scotland more than they give", well if that is the case then why is England so desperate for us not to split up?

It's been argued against but even if Scotland didn't give as much as they take I could then only assume that England gain indirectly somehow; perhaps one reason could be because it's a bigger show of strength to be as one to other nations and allows better trading - so the gains could be made there?

I wouldn't worry about Scotland's defence capabilities as a token force is all that is requried because England are hardly going to allow an enemy to invade and take over a country on their doorstep.

Whatever the answers, whether we are told the truth of not or whatever we know or don't know I think the fact that Cameron doesn't want to split means that there may be something we don't know about. People are scared of change which is probably Cameron's biggest Ace.

Another factor which isn't mentioned much but may be of massive importance: water. Have a think about that one ;)
 
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