An Independent Scotland?

dod said:
Not really. There will definitely be an additional cost incurred. Why would DECC continue to subsidise all investment in another country? Only the scale is unclear. As usual.
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Scotland produces about 20% of the UKs electricity, uses about 9.9% of it and exports the rest. The funding mentioned there is/was never intended to be an ongoing thing and in fact is being cut drastically (from 2015) for land based renewables since that sector is now pretty mature. It says Scotland received 28% of the funding but Scotland has more renewable generation than the rest of the UK put together (26.8% as opposed to 26.1% rUK in 2011) The reason for the lower percentage to generation ratio is because much of Scotland's renewable sector is mature and not funded.

Offshore generation will be another matter but many generator companies are cutting back on that too and I don't know what the future holds for that.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa.../65841/7345-elec-gen-2008-2011-et-article.pdf
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25210963
 
So, as I said, only the level of additional cost is unclear.
 
dod said:
So, as I said, only the level of additional cost is unclear.
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Yes but just not in the same doom and gloom format you seem to prefer.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Highly embarrassing for the SNP when they have already stated they are against privatisation of the NHS and yet Weight Watches are going to be paid to tackle the obesity problem privately outside of the NHS.
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Weight Watchers, Alex Salmon and obesity in the same sentence .......... we are discussing every angle
 
BillN_33 said:
Weight Watchers, Alex Salmon and obesity in the same sentence .......... we are discussing every angle
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Hey he's been on "A.N.Other" weight loss program, doesn't need weight watchers.
 
nothing to do with doom and gloom. I'm just trying to find some answers which aren't coloured by blind patriotism. There aren't many positive ones other than estimates of potential oil reserves off Shetland which are still unproven.
 
dod said:
nothing to do with doom and gloom. I'm just trying to find some answers which aren't coloured by blind patriotism. There aren't many positive ones other than estimates of potential oil reserves off Shetland which are still unproven.
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Tonight and tomorrow on STV, Scotland Tonight - 25 minute in depth interviews each with Salmond and Darling. Maybe some questions will be answered.
 
Steep said:
No my comments don't and I don't remember ever saying they do, they do however reflect my attitude to royalty. Some of them do good work, Harry for example with invictus but that's his mothers influence I reckon. Most of them are a waste of taxpayers money though imo.
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common ground :D
 
Do people really think that separating from the UK is going to make some massive difference?
 
We'd say the same to him as we did to his and the Aussie Presidents,
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I thought the education standard in Scotland was supposed to be better than in England?

Australia doesn't have a 'president', never has, it has a Monarch, specifically Elizabeth.

So, in spite of The SNP/Hugh saying it'll all be OK, it seems that even the possibility of independence started the selling spree. Or is that in the plan as well Hugh?
 
Steep said:
We'd say the same to him as we did to his and the Aussie Presidents, if independence is such a bad idea, why are you not petitioning to come back under the UKs rule? :)
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Because they are a massive country with a huge resource base and couldn't be more different Scotland if they tried (rather like Australia) - I wonder if Salmond has factored in all the English business Scotland will lose - for example the contract to build Navy Frigates in the Clyde ... that'll be going to Portsmouth most likely (because if we wanted to build them in a foreign country there are cheaper options , so the only reason Clyde got the job was to keep it British )
 
Pete I'm sure he has, the clyde thing has been done on the thread already, no point going over it all again.
 
pretty much everything has been done already on this thread - including the assertion that alex salmond is full of crap and doesn't actually have a workable plan if Scotland gains independence ... but hey that won't be our problem (so long as Cameron has the balls to wave good bye and make a clean break)
 
Well we had Gordon Brown today saying there will be a timetable for discussions on a unified plan for extra powers for Scotland 'if' we vote no. Contradicted by Ed Balls who says...


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I also love how the yes campaign are spinning the most recent pole as a majority in favour of independence

45% against, 47% for, and 8% undecided is not a majority in favour by any reasonable interpretation
 
Steep said:
Well we had Gordon Brown today saying there will be a timetable for discussions on a unified plan for extra powers for Scotland 'if' we vote no. Contradicted by Ed Balls who says...


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Media spin again - Ball's position is the current one, Brown has a different proposal which is currently being considered. (and who cares anyway because neither of them are in government) Personally I don't believe further devolution in the event of a no vote is sensible anyway , if the majority don't want independence why would they want more powers devolved from west minster to holyrood.
 
Both contradicting Johann Lamont who told the Northern Echo a few months ago "The English shouldn't believe all the propaganda about extra powers, there are no extra powers coming to Scotland."
 
Is Gordon Brown and (Ed balls) really going to help the "No" campaign …………… the arrogance of the men in thinking that anyone will trust what they say ……. they have past history as "politicians"
 
GB lives in this little bubble world where everybody loves him and he gets lots of attention.
 
I also note that Salmond (very naively) thinks that he won't be taking on any share of the UK national Debt , - if Cameron has any balls the answer to that is if you don't share the debt you don't get any of the assets it paid for - good luck with that.
 
Steep said:
GB lives in this little bubble world where everybody loves him and he gets lots of attention.
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fortunately he's Scottish so in the event of a yes vote we can declare him PNG and deport him north of the border - every cloud has a silver lining
 
big soft moose said:
I also note that Salmond (very naively) thinks that he won't be taking on any share of the UK national Debt , - if Cameron has any balls the answer to that is if you don't share the debt you don't get any of the assets it paid for - good luck with that.
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He doesn't think that at all. He wants a currency union, where we take our share of the debt.
Did you miss that bit?
 
The outcome of the vote doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm just getting a tingle seeing it happen. It's the very essence of democracy. Voting for freedom. It's a better reason to go and vote than choosing which cheek of the same arse gets to sit on the comfier seats in the house of commons.
 
Bernie174 said:
I thought the education standard in Scotland was supposed to be better than in England?

Australia doesn't have a 'president', never has, it has a Monarch, specifically Elizabeth.

So, in spite of The SNP/Hugh saying it'll all be OK, it seems that even the possibility of independence started the selling spree. Or is that in the plan as well Hugh?
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Hardly a selling spree:p
 
3 lots of Yes campaigners have been round badgering us tonight.

Being a small village - I knew the people so I wasn't able to just turf them away.

I'm either going to disconnect my doorbell of put a 'Better Sod Off' poster up.
 
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dinners said:
3 lots of Yes campaigners have been round badgering us tonight.

Being a small village - I knew the people so I wasn't able to just turf them away.

I'm either going to disconnect my doorbell of put a 'Better Sod Off' poster up.
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How many no campaigners have you bad at your door?
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
He doesn't think that at all. He wants a currency union, where we take our share of the debt.
Did you miss that bit?
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but why should we give a currency union - we don't want our currency tied to a small economically unstable country. He'll take your share of the debt anyway , as like it or not if he doesn't he'll find it very hard to run any kind of nation without assets.

Thing to remember is at the moment Westminster is trying to convince the scots to vote no so they are all fluffy bunnys and love hugs and a white paper full of promises - after a yes vote the gloves come off and those promises won't be worth the paper they are written on if Salmond doesn't play ball. For example rUK could block Scotland's entry into the EU if we were so inclined, we could also refuse to transfer any defence assets , and even the tax agreements on the oil could be hard to get transferred if rUK decided to be uncooperative.
 
They've also now latched onto the sweeping anti Salmond feeling and are distancing themselves from him - no longer preaching to the converted.
 
big soft moose said:
I also note that Salmond (very naively) thinks that he won't be taking on any share of the UK national Debt , - if Cameron has any balls the answer to that is if you don't share the debt you don't get any of the assets it paid for - good luck with that.
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I know this will probably start another argument but... Legally there is no debt for us to take, what a Scots negotiating team would want to do would be called something fancy but would amount to us paying our share of the debt on a moral basis.

There's a couple of reasons why there is no legal debt for us to take on. Firstly the loans were made to the UK treasury and cannot be reassigned even in part to anyone else without being renegotiated with the lenders, probably at higher interest rates for all parties. Secondly and I've mentioned it before the treasury has accepted responsibility for all loans and guaranteed them in the event of a break up.

What that means is that iScotland could simply walk away free and clear because you cannot default on a debt that is not yours. Nobody thinks that's the right thing to do though and some compromise will be worked out. DC or more likely his replacement cannot play hardball on the issue because the cost to rUK would be crippling and that is in nobody's best interests.
 
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