An Independent Scotland?

I just don't see the point of the question, I assumed you read the bit of my post that said "This is my opinion" since you quoted it and decided to have a dig for some reason of your own.
 
Of all the things to come out of the yes campaign I can't think of a single one I've seen about the "evil of the British empire". Could you provide me with a few examples?
In regard to whether more money is spent in Scotland than is raised, you can look at openly available figures and find the answer to that, it isn't difficult.
As an aside, having just looked on this thread for the first time and probably the last time, I am saddened by the amount of bitterness in some posts. It's no wonder yes are gaining ground when it seems that many of our southern neighbours are treating the issue with such disdain.
 
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Steep said:
This is a word, I didn't make it up no, it's been in the dictionary for some time.
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so you lied when you sais 'this is my opinion' s this isn't your opinion, its a word that's been in the dictionary for quite some time :LOL:

heather I think the answer to your question is, yes
 
velonoir said:
Of all the things that come out of the yes campaign I can't think of a single one I've seen about the "evil of the British empire". Could you provide me with a few examples?
In regard to whether more money is spent in Scotland than is raised, you can look at openly available figures and find the answer to that, of isn't difficult.
As an aside, having just looked on this thread for the first time and probably the last time, I am saddened by the amount of bitterness in some posts. It's no wonder yes are gaining ground when it seems that many of our southern neighbours are treating the issue with such disdain.
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there are several posts on this very thread about countries having been better off when they left the empire , with the clear implication that Scotland is part of an English empire , which is historically incorrect

in regard to whether England subsidises Scotland or not you can indeed look at the openly available figures , and find stats to support either argument- which is part of the joy of lies, damn lies, and statistics.

And talking of bitterness - you should look at some of the crap yes supporters are spouting , as a southern neighbour (although I'm half Scottish by parentage) I personally find a lot of the anti English rhetoric both childish and offensive . My view is if Scotland wants to go and votes to go, then they should go - nothing is gained by keeping a country in a union if most of its population wants to leave.

However once they've gone they should go completely and not expect their ex union partners to prop up their currency or give them any other favours other than those we'd accord to any friendly nation state .... and if at that point they find that 'yes' were less than truthful about the revenue situation, and that they need a major tax rise if they want to keep free university education and elder care provision etc, then that will also be their problem.
 
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Steep said:
I just don't see the point of the question, I assumed you read the bit of my post that said "This is my opinion" since you quoted it and decided to have a dig for some reason of your own.
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Whether you see any point to the question or not is irrelevant, you just sidestep anything that doesn't fit in with your own personal agenda.
Everything you write gives the impression that it is fact, not "this is how I would like to see it happen" and you are deliberately blurring what is fact and what is your fiction.

All I asked was a simple question, which has now been answered.

big soft moose said:
so you lied when you sais 'this is my opinion' s this isn't your opinion, its a word that's been in the dictionary for quite some time :LOL:

heather I think the answer to your question is, yes
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But we all know it won't end like that. They expect us to bail them out.
 
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Tigger.ufo said:
Whether you see any point to the question or not is irrelevant, you just sidestep anything that doesn't fit in with your own personal agenda.
Everything you write gives the impression that it is fact, not "this is how I would like to see it happen" and you are deliberately blurring what is fact and what is your fiction.

All I asked was a simple question, which has now been answered.
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What I thought and still think is that you chose to badger me for no good reason and since I don't remember reading anything in the forum rules that say I have to put up with being badgered, I'm sure you'll understand if I choose to ignore you from now on.
 
isn't there something in the forum rules about it being a banning offence to brag about ignoring someone :LOL:
 
dejongj said:
But we all know it won't end like that. They expect us to bail them out.
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course they do - and when they do we say 'sorry, but no - go and ask Germany like the greeks do'
 
fracster said:
Tell you summat Hugh, your constant attempts to brain wash all and sundry with how much YOU want independance is becoming boring as hell, as are your asinine little digs at anybody who disagrees with you.

Here is a thought you and your ilk need to take heed of, we,the English, know full well it is all about Scotland and the people thereof, we don`t need inane drivel aimed at us. The people of Scotland are taking the vote,not us, but if you do vote yes, don`t start moaning about the step that you took.
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Here is a thought you and your ilk need to take heed of......Don't start a thread and then start moaning because you don't like the answers/posts.
 
big soft moose said:
course they do - and when they do we say 'sorry, but no - go and ask Germany like the greeks do'
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either that or we say 'sure no problem' but take a lien on the oil as security for when they aren't able to pay us back :LOL:
 
we'll take hunting rights on all the haggis on the land between the walls ;)
 
Living amongst the campaign on both sides up here I'm well aware that there is some pretty unpleasant and ignorant chat going about, from both sides. However I'm also aware it's only a very small proportion of population, again on both sides. There is as much ignorance to be found in any divisive political, or even cultural issue - just read the comments section under any online article about immigration etc. My comment referred to the last few pages of this thread, not the campaign as a whole. I don't have either the time out inclination to read 70 odd pages but that's what was really notable very quickly.
As for the figures, specifically looking at the GERS reports published by the UK government over the last few decades I'd maintain that the answers are fairly straightforward if we are looking for figures, but of course there is much else to be debated.
Anyway I'll bid you a good night as I don't plan on posting in here again.
 
its a shame they've been hunted to extinction south of the border
 
big soft moose said:
there are several posts on this very thread about countries having been better off when they left the empire , with the clear implication that Scotland is part of an English empire , which is historically incorrect
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I think the references are that other countries have gained independence from The UK/Empire that have gone on to be successful, so why can't Scotland. It doesn't mean we think we are part of an empire, English or otherwise.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
other countries have gained independence from The UK/Empire .
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Zimbabwe and the Sudan are a storming success after all (and they've both got more in the way of natural resources than Scotland , especially as a large chunk of the north sea oil isn't in territorial waters at all. May be we should build an oil landing facility at Newcastle and offer the oil companies a tax break or three to ship it further south :D )
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
I think the references are that other countries have gained independence from The UK/Empire that have gone on to be successful, so why can't Scotland. It doesn't mean we think we are part of an empire, English or otherwise.
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And I think Scotland can. Not with the SNP though. A proper vision and realistic roadmap is required.
 
dejongj said:
Not with the SNP though. .
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ahhh line caught Salmond , lightly smoked over the fires of criticism , and served with egg (on his face)
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
I think the references are that other countries have gained independence from The UK/Empire that have gone on to be successful, so why can't Scotland.
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This is, once again, backward looking idealism. The main thrust of independence occurred in an era of changing fortunes of power blocs when independence was a globally recognised positive force.

Today, global power blocs are in a process of entrenchment, with separatism, note the change of semantics, seen as destabilising.

Stop referring to the past - what does an independent Scotland contribute to the present and to the future?
 
big soft moose said:
Zimbabwe and the Sudan are a storming success after all (and they've both got more in the way of natural resources than Scotland , especially as a large chunk of the north sea oil isn't in territorial waters at all. May be we should build an oil landing facility at Newcastle and offer the oil companies a tax break or three to ship it further south :D )
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goes to show that it's not just about the resources.
big soft moose said:
ahhh line caught Salmond , lightly smoked over the fires of criticism , and served with egg (on his face)
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we'll see who has egg on their face soon enough.:D
 
I think we should have a TP referendum :)

Regardless of the real result we can then compare life here to the outside world.
 
One more question - for now.

What will be the mechanism for appointing a head of State?

Will it be a president, like France for instance. It clearly won't be a monarch, but who knows.

Or will it be, like the US, that head of government is also head of state?

And what will be the division of powers between head of government and head of state?

Has this been worked out?

Just interested.
 
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simon ess said:
This is, once again, backward looking idealism. The main thrust of independence occurred in an era of changing fortunes of power blocs when independence was a globally recognised positive force.

Today, global power blocs are in a process of entrenchment, with separatism, note the change of semantics, seen as destabilising.

Stop referring to the past - what does an independent Scotland contribute to the present and to the future?
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I referred to the past in response to another statement. There is nothing backward in Scotland wishing to be an independent country. As for your last question, as we are not independent yet, you'll have to wait and see.:p
 
Surely you're not asking the people of Scotland to "wait and see."

Surely you're giving them a definite proposal on an independent Scotland's place in the world.
 
simon ess said:
One more question - for now.

What will be the mechanism for appointing a head of State?

Will it be a president, like France for instance. It clearly won't be a monarch, but who knows.

Or will it be, like the US, that head of government is also head of state?

And what will be the division of powers between head of government and head of state?

Has this been worked out?

Just interested.
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Australian asks the Queen - Can we be a Kingdom ?

Sorry no King.

Can we be an Empire then ?

Sorry no Emperor.

What about a Principality ?

Sorry no Prince.

What then ?

A Country.
 
simon ess said:
Surely you're not asking the people of Scotland to "wait and see."
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No, I'm asking you to wait and see. Nothing to do with our proposals. You asked what an independent Scotland contributes to the present and the future, and unless your psychic abilities are better than mine, we'll all have to wait and see.
 
I'm very happy to wait and see Bob. I doubt it will have any impact on me whatsoever.

I'll ask again. Are you asking the Scottish people to wait and see, or are you offering them a clear and substantiated definition of an independent Scotland's role in global affairs?
 
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