An Independent Scotland?

MWHCVT said:
Got to say I'm disappointed to see so little posting from the Yes camp of TP but for one sore post about vote rigging...I guess it shows they really don't take defeat too well at all :( and that to me is the saddest thing
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Don't be sad, I'm just up! We had a party to celebrate out defeat!:D
I respect the decision that has been made by the people of Scotland. Time to move forward.
No need for any slagging, sly remarks etc from either side.
:kiss:
 
what a crazy situation; Brown agreeing with Cameron ……….. they never agree even if they agree

The Cameron/Brown Alliance has promised Scotland more devolved powers plus a bigger share of the cake, (simply put, more money)
IF that happens along come Wales and NI with their hands out

According to opinion polls the English voter has always thought that Scotland gets more £'s than it should

Arithmetic - Scotland more, Wales more, NI more = England less

The Tory back benchers are already in semi revolt ……… they will whip up English opinion to build on the English view and use this to attack Cameron who does not have a mandate from anyone to promise what he has. Their Cheer leader of this revolt could well be a member of his present Cabinet.

What authority does Brown have to offer anything to anyone ……. has he joined the Tory party?

Interesting times ahead
 
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The SNP being in power in Scotland as a result of apathy amongst voters. I don't think they'll form the next Scots Government.

On the wider issue of politicians, I think the issue is that we are too welded to a party, not the local MP. In some constituencies, it matters not who the MP is and how ineffectual they are, if they are standing for party X, they get elected. If a monkey stood in some for that party, they'd be the first monkey (not primate we've already got plenty of them!) to be elected.
We then let the local MP get on with it. It's very unusual for voters to go and see or lobby on mass their MP and tell them how it is they should vote. Although even if we did, it's unlikely they would take much notice, knowing mostly they are in a job for life.
It''s the system of representation that needs to change as well as our approach to them.
 
what a crazy situation; Brown agreeing with Cameron
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Thats also the problem. Labour think something up that's good for the UK, The Tories automatically go to the opposing position, and vice versa.
They need to start doing whats best for the UK, not best for scoring points.
They should agree more often and work together always. That way we would go a lot further a lot quicker!
 
I am of course ecstatic at the result, the people of Scotland have spoken and we are still part of a great union

Now both sides need to stand side by side and ensure that we all work together for a better future for Scotland
 
You are correct, Bernie. Being an MP for many is simply a career choice. I suspect that many of them would be an MP for any party if it got them the job.

Post #4275 refers.
 
Keith W said:
I am of course ecstatic at the result, the people of Scotland have spoken and we are still part of a great union

Now both sides need to stand side by side and ensure that we all work together for a better future for Scotland
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and for the rest of the united kingdom. We are one people, one country and need to act in the interest of the whole country. together we can make britain great for british people
 
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Hi All
Well done to both sides for getting out and voting. I think this could have more than just a little impact on the political front for a long time to come so we all need to stand up and be counted in the future if we want real change in the UK.

One thing listening to the one politician last night from Shetland and Orkney Alistair Carmichael he seemed to imply if there had have been a yes vote they would not have accepted it and would have gone for Independence from Scotland and stayed part of the UK did I mishear him. Not being part of the mainland I can see why they could do this but how would this have played out the oil reserves would have been in their waters and would have left the yes camp in a real dilemma how could you enforce your views on them If you don't live there a bit like Argentina and the Falklands.
So in a way I think for both sides it was a good job that the No's prevailed. Maybe if ever another vote is held the people of Orkney and Shetland should be poled first first then the rest of Scotland, so people will know what they would or wouldn't be getting for voting for Independence.
 
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Can we look forward to Salmond & Sturgeon being hung drawn and quartered at Edinburgh Castle? You would hope that they would have the decency to stand down after their campaign of dsinformation!
 
barneyrubble said:
I dont think there will be another one for a very long time :):):)
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That i disagree with. Westminster HAS to come up with the goods. More control of finances, more acknowledgement of Scotland's role in the UK,
Keith W said:
I am of course ecstatic at the result, the people of Scotland have spoken and we are still part of a great union

Now both sides need to stand side by side and ensure that we all work together for a better future for Scotland
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If they don't I can see a clear out of all party MP's from Scotland except SNP. I'd break the habit of a lifetime and go SNP as well.

I'd see that leading to another referendum in the foreseeable future and that would get a yes from me as well. Westminster has a chance to fix things, they'd better not cock it up.
 
Overexposed said:
Can we look forward to Salmond & Sturgeon being hung drawn and quartered at Edinburgh Castle? You would hope that they would have the decency to stand down after their campaign of dsinformation!
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Nice of you to pop in now that it's all over.
I hope they don't stand down. They've done more for political change in the UK than anyone else has for a very long time. I hope they hang around to ensure that Westminster are true to their word.
 
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So can't we now make a move to make the greater metropolitan area independent? That would everyone happy doesn't it?
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Nice of you to pop in now that it's all over.
I hope they don't stand down. They've done more for political change in the UK than anyone else has for a very long time. I hope they hang around to ensure that Westminster are true to their word.
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I've read so much drivel spouted on various forums about the referendum that its pointless to post when not having a vote makes it beyond your control anyway. I'm just glad the UK is still United and sufficient Scots saw beyond Salmond's diatribe of idiocy!
 
BillN_33 said:
For Cameron and Brown to apparently agree on such major issues, (forget their monkey's Clegg and Milliband), cannot have been done for altruistic or even political reasons, it was done for their own personal reasons.

Presumably the arguments will start tomorrow
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Not really. No Scotland = more chance of conservative government or a smaller labour majority. If it was all about self interest the Tories would hand been shouting yes!
 
I mentioned that a few posts ago. Cameron has agreed to work with Scotland but it would be far better if they (Salmond/Sturgeon) stood down with dignity and a new First Minister and Deputy are appointed. Fresh new start. Their credibility has been compromised. Time to go.....
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
They've done more for political change in the UK than anyone else has for a very long time.
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By using the Nigel Farage method. Adopt a populist position and promise things that you know that you cannot deliver on. All as a means of furthering your own agenda and if you can hide all of your shortcomings in a shroud of nationalism then all's the better.

IMHO of course.
 
Overexposed said:
I've read so much drivel spouted on various forums about the referendum that its pointless to post when not having a vote makes it beyond your control anyway. I'm just glad the UK is still United and sufficient Scots saw beyond Salmond's diatribe of idiocy!
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So why start now? Unless you're trolling:p
 
Bernie174 said:
Thats also the problem. Labour think something up that's good for the UK, The Tories automatically go to the opposing position, and vice versa.
They need to start doing whats best for the UK, not best for scoring points.
They should agree more often and work together always. That way we would go a lot further a lot quicker!
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Very good post Bernie.
 
dejongj said:
Looking at the news and the comments of some.....and I quote: "I hope next time we'll get our yes vote". WTF How often do they want to do this...
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Until they get independence. They will see 45% as a platform to build on and any EU in/out referendum might trigger another one up here if it goes the wrong way.
 
More powers have been promised but with one had you are fed, the other takes it away and most likely through reductions in the Block Grant. As much as I dislike Salmond he has certainly raised more awareness towards Scotland and they may be taken more seriously now because although the result wasn't mega close, it wasn't a landslide in the No direction either. I am seeing a fair amount of condescending comments online towards the Scots by English posters (various places), well if Scotland is so pitiful and such a burden then why the desperation to keep us by their own leader?

I personally think the hard line Nationalists may have put many undecided voters off, but if Cameron reneges on his promises or the rigged voting turns out to be true and on a bigger scale than currently thought, then a second referendum could most likely go Yes with ease.

I think now is a great time to redefine many areas of politics between the various countries in the UK so that they are all shown a little more respect. I'm also tired of it being a constant two horse race in Westminster, surely there are other credible parties that are worth looking at?
 
cambsno said:
Not really. No Scotland = more chance of conservative government or a smaller labour majority. If it was all about self interest the Tories would hand been shouting yes!
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I said that Cameron and Browns actions were done for personal not political interests …….. Cameron would not want to be the PM presiding over the break up of the Union and Brown, the worst PM in living history, has always been totally arrogant and is trying to justify himself.

The political question of wether Scotland effects any Tory victory in Westminster is debatable
 
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Laudrup said:
Until they get independence. They will see 45% as a platform to build on and any EU in/out referendum might trigger another one up here if it goes the wrong way.
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Wasn't the claim made by the Yes crowd that there was no mechanism for withdrawing from the EU? Or were they less than truthful in this claim?

Regards...
 
dod said:
That i disagree with. Westminster HAS to come up with the goods. More control of finances, more acknowledgement of Scotland's role in the UK,
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Another referendum will require westminster's approval.

Do you really think they're going to give it after nearly losing the vote this time?
 
MWHCVT said:
No your right it wasn't too pretty at all :( but if the vote had gone the other way I'm sure a reasonable number of the no camp would offer congratulations no matter how disappointed they would be...as one of the small band of nutters that sat up on TP on this thread pretty much till the death last night/this morning I was also surprised not to see a single pro voice in the thread
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to be fair i was pro - if wanting scotland to go forth and multiply and thinking england would be better off without can be described as 'pro' - i'm unsuprised by the vote though - the reasons why i'd like england unencumbered by scotland (and wales/ulster) are the exact same reasons a lot of scots voted no
 
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Finste said:
After a Yes vote, Scotland would not be outside the EU. There is no mechanism in EU law for Scotland to be expelled from the EU after a Yes vote, or for us to be deprived, overnight, of our EU citizenship rights.

http://www.yesscotland.net/news/massive-credibility-gap-commissioners-comments

Regards...
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Withdrawing is different from being expelled.

Withdrawal from the European Union is a right of European Union (EU) member states under Treaty on European Union (Article 50): "Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements."

No state has ever withdrawn, though some dependent territories or semi-autonomous areas have left. Of these, only Greenland has explicitly voted to leave, departing from the EU's predecessor, the European Economic Community (EEC), in 1985. Algeria left its predecessor upon independence in 1962.
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Blank_Canvas said:
Salmond should really fall on his sword and go. So should Sturgeon.
.
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falling on ones sword requires a person of honour and principles ... few politicians do so - go figure
 
Salmond is a goner, it's on the Beeb.
 
He Lost. He's embarrassed. He's resigned.
It's not falling on his sword...it's leggin it.
 
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