Another Zoo Escapee

Lilith is still free, despite all efforts to trap her, pleased that they have more patience then the CWP
 
Probably down to the level of danger it offers. Aren't they talking about reintroducing Line here anyway ?
 
Graham Roberthall said:
Probably down to the level of danger it offers. Aren't they talking about reintroducing Line here anyway ?
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Can't see a wolf being any more dangerous then a Lynx

Yes they are in Kielder Forest in Northumberland, she is now being blamed for killing, but not eating, seven sheep in the week since
her escape, putting that plan in jeopardy, coincidence ?
 
Flaviu (the lynx who escaped from Dartmoor Zoo) only killed 4 in the 3 weeks or so that he was at large. Captured less than a mile from the zoo in the end. Now seems quite happy - he has a female companion (see how long before he needs to escape from her!!!)
 
Gremlin said:
Lilith is still free, despite all efforts to trap her, pleased that they have more patience then the CWP
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Graham Roberthall said:
Probably down to the level of danger it offers. Aren't they talking about reintroducing Line here anyway ?
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I've often wondered about this - Colchester were also very quick to shoot their escaped wolves a few years ago. I wonder if it has something to do with proximity to built up / residential areas?
 
To tranquilize can take up to about 20 minutes depending on lots of variables, the cat could have vanished by then, gone into hiding as cats do when hurt or frightened. They may not have found it. And as already said they have to get a lot closer.
 
Dave70D said:
make a fence high enough to stop any escapes.
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Not all escapees get out over fences. DZP's Flaviu clawed out through the side of his house and their old jaguar went over a trainee (or volunteer) keeper and ended up in their tiger enclosure.
 
Nod said:
Not all escapees get out over fences. DZP's Flaviu clawed out through the side of his house and their old jaguar went over a trainee (or volunteer) keeper and ended up in their tiger enclosure.
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Then the only way is, close all zoo`s as imo it is wrong to cage them up in the first place.
 
Dave70D said:
Then the only way is, close all zoo`s as imo it is wrong to cage them up in the first place.
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Zoo's (good ones) offer a number of benefits. Almost all of the animal stock has been bred in captivity, so it doesn't know of life outside it's enclosure, and they offer educational benefits. I feel it's really important for children to actually see some of these animals, and the school trips to zoos educate the pupils so they understand about conservation. Which leads me onto conservation itself. Many of these endangered animals are in breeding programmes to generate new life to be released into the wild.
 
Jelster said:
Zoo's (good ones) offer a number of benefits. Almost all of the animal stock has been bred in captivity, so it doesn't know of life outside it's enclosure, and they offer educational benefits. I feel it's really important for children to actually see some of these animals, and the school trips to zoos educate the pupils so they understand about conservation. Which leads me onto conservation itself. Many of these endangered animals are in breeding programmes to generate new life to be released into the wild.
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I think they do a breeding programme in SA which is great.
 
neil_g said:
Zoo are quite rightly upset..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-41953073

Danger to public my arse. Not unless you look a bit like a sheep or corner the animal.
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Since the dangerous Animals act in the 1970's and some were likely released into the wild we were probably living with some and didnt even know.

Dave70D said:
Then the only way is, close all zoo`s as imo it is wrong to cage them up in the first place.
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I don't like small zoos that don't have the space to keep them so I don't visit them. Being a regular visitor to Woburn Abbey I often see (and hear) the Père David's deer herds roaming the park. That reminds me that I'm lucky to see them as they are extinct in the wild in their native China and their survival as a species is largely down to Woburn Abbey. Large well run places have a place in conservation, we as a species sadly can't be trusted to ensure that's possible in the wild.
 
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Dave70D said:
Then the only way is, close all zoo`s as imo it is wrong to cage them up in the first place.
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Education.
Conservation.
Research.

I think it is interesting to assume that a 'free' life is automatically deemed better than a captive life in a good zoo. In a good zoo an animal will not suffer the stress of predation, will receive excellent medical care, will never die of starvation or drought, won't be shot by poachers or have their home destroyed. Of course there are bad zoos and this incident also shows that there are other 'dangers' present even in good facilities - but a truly wild life can be devastatingly cruel. It is naive to take a simplistic stance of captivity being wrong...
 
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Daysleeper40 said:
Education.
Conservation.
Research.

I think it is interesting to assume that a 'free' life is automatically deemed better than than captive life in a good zoo. In a good zoo an animal will not suffer the stress of predation, will receive excellent medical care, will never die of starvation or drought, won't be shot by poachers or have their home destroyed. Of course there are bad zoos and this incident also shows that there are other 'dangers' present even in good facilities - but a truly wild life can be devastatingly cruel. It is naive to take a simplistic stance of captivity being wrong...
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I do think it is great that these beautiful animals are SAFE from humans, just sad that some are caged but that`s just my thoughts on it, always has been and always will be. Now if they could do away with every single poacher, then that would be good for the animals :)
 
Dave70D said:
Now if they could do away with every single poacher, then that would be good for the animals :)
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This is what I mean by being naive. Poaching is just one issue - what about the impact of deforestation, over population, waste disposal, climate change, pollution etc etc? It would be lovely if we could click our fingers and create a world in which animals and their environments are truly safe - but that is just not going to happen. In the world we live in good zoos are far from sad - they are a necessity in preserving the long term survival of multiple species.

Incidently - who is this 'they' you speak of?
 
Daysleeper40 said:
This is what I mean by being naive. Poaching is just one issue - what about the impact of deforestation, over population, waste disposal, climate change, pollution etc etc? It would be lovely if we could click our fingers and create a world in which animals and their environments are truly safe - but that is just not going to happen. In the world we live in good zoos are far from sad - they are a necessity in preserving the long term survival of multiple species.

Incidently - who is this 'they' you speak of?
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In places like SA, the THEY are the police who try and get the poachers. As I have said, Yes it is great that some good zoo`s are doing, it`s just a shame that they can`t make them bigger and stronger. I know this is totally different but, when we had our JR Spade, the vet said keep her in a cage as she won`t tear her stitches out as this sort of dog is High Energy, I said politly I know my dog and she won`t be caged up at all, no stitches were ripped or torn out as she had a very comfy bed. Zoos are not sad, it`s how they are caged up are sad.
 
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Dave70D said:
In places like SA, the THEY are the police who try and get the poachers. As I have said, Yes it is great that some good zoo`s are doing, it`s just a shame that they can`t make them bigger and stronger. I know this is totally different but, when we had our JR Spade, the vet said keep her in a cage as she won`t tear her stitches out as this sort of dog is High Energy, I said politly I know my dog and she won`t be caged up at all, no stitches were ripped or torn out as she had a very comfy bed. Zoos are not sad, it`s how they are caged up are sad.
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That is one of the oddest examples of why you think all zoos should be closed I have ever seen.
 
Dave70D said:
Why is it odd ?
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Because it is of tenuous relevance at best. You are using a suggested temporary restriction of movement for medical reasons as an argument against captivity in general.

Dave70D said:
Why is it odd ? Forget about our dog then just leave it to the SA to help with poachers.
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I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

Dave70D said:
I will leave it at this above. I have NOT said zoos are wrong, I have said CAGED is wrong.
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But you do want to close all zoos...

Dave70D said:
Then the only way is, close all zoo`s as imo it is wrong to cage them up in the first place.
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A better way for me to say it is, if a zoo has so many animals that Escape then close that zoo until a far bigger fence/wall can be made then reopen it. OK closing all zoos is for me to say is Wrong, on that I am sorry, but in the day they let the animals out then lock them back up for the evening, why don`t they leave the bedding area open so they can come and go ?
 
Dave70D said:
I think they do a breeding programme in SA which is great.
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There are breeding and protection programmes for a number of species in SA. The Caracal (Rooikat in Afrikaans) looks a bit like a lynx, but its ancestry is older. They're spectacular hunters and can jump > 3m vertically to catch a bird in flight.

Dave70D said:
In places like SA, the THEY are the police who try and get the poachers.
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Corruption is rife in the SAPS, and it's common enough for them - and other government officials - to be involved in poaching. Vets have also been implicated. Rhino and, to a lesser extent, elephant are the main targets but there's also a market for lion bones.
 
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This was never going to have a happy ending and I'm surprised she survived as long as she did :(
The zoo never reported her as missing for 5 days, would this not be a breach of licence ?
According to reports I have read they bought the place in July, it only closed when the escape became public
and looks likely to stay that way until a council inspection.

Dave70D said:
OK lets say I am Naive, but so are zoos. Come on boys lets save 100s of animals and breed them, OH yes then lets zoothanasia the surplus :confused:
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Responsible zoos don't overbreed, Whipsnade hasn't bred the lynx or cheetahs for a few years now, they still have the last
litters in with their parents
I was told that there is a glut of lynx in zoos atm and no where wants them.]
But cubs and young animals bring in the public so unscrupulous places will keep breeding,
at least hoof stock won't go the waste
 
Gremlin said:
This was never going to have a happy ending and I'm surprised she survived as long as she did :(
The zoo never reported her as missing for 5 days, would this not be a breach of licence ?
According to reports I have read they bought the place in July, it only closed when the escape became public
and looks likely to stay that way until a council inspection.
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From what I have seen I'm not sure they even knew she was missing initially - which is obviously a concern. I do have some sympathy for the new owners though - I believe the place was left in a bit of a state by the previous lot and as such they have a big job on their hands. I'm suprised they had a licence to begin with.
 
There are always extremely hazardous escaped animals in Wales on the loose.

Sheep / cows / horses that escaped in the middle of the road do kill drivers or cause serious crash once in a while.

Escaped zoo animals in Wales killed zero as far as I know so I think its a storm in a tea cup putting it all over the news.
 
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