Anybody want to be a volunteer photographer for the fire brigade?

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#3
"As an RBFRS Volunteer Photographer you will be required to attend ..."

Required? As a volunteer? :LOL:
 
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Trevor
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#4
One would have to be a right wally to take them up on that. Giving to the community is one thing, but that is one huge urine extraction IMO. :exit:
 
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#6
This seriously p***es me off. Brigade photographer used to be a decent job. Now the cheapskates have turned all the employment positions into volunteer roles.

Twts!
 
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Chris
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#7
I'm sure they won't have a problem filling the role. There is a guy in my nearest town who will photograph absolutely anything for the community free of charge, he's been doing it for at least 10 years. Gets him out of the house, gets to meet loads of people and experience interesting things and constantly has photos in the press etc.
 

nandbytes

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#8
I'm sure they won't have a problem filling the role. There is a guy in my nearest town who will photograph absolutely anything for the community free of charge, he's been doing it for at least 10 years. Gets him out of the house, gets to meet loads of people and experience interesting things and constantly has photos in the press etc.
Charging or not is one thing but he's happy giving up copyright?
 
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#10
I'm sure they won't have a problem filling the role. There is a guy in my nearest town who will photograph absolutely anything for the community free of charge, he's been doing it for at least 10 years. Gets him out of the house, gets to meet loads of people and experience interesting things and constantly has photos in the press etc.
Good for him :)

Just wish we had a local plumber, electrician etc. like that :D

On the plus side here though, having a uniform as a Fireman must help getting laid :LOL:

Dave
 

simon ess

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#11
If plumbing or electrics were taken up as hobbies by similar numbers of people as photography, you'd find one.
 

Cobra

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#12
If plumbing or electrics were taken up as hobbies by similar numbers of people as photography, you'd find one.
Would you honestly want a plummer or sparky, doing work for you, "to gain experience"?
:D
 
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#18
Right going to open a can of worms (number 1) here, but what is so bad about giving up your copyright for photographs that have a specific use?
 
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#19
Can of worms (number 2) people always trot out about sparkies or plumbers doing work for free when comparing photographers getting paid (or not as the case may be). I hope those people moaning about that, don't do any work in the gardens as you can get gardeners to do that work. Do you cook? as there are chefs who can do that. What about washing your car there are people who do that as well.
 
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#20
They want some pleb to photograph their meet and greets and otherwise stay TF out of their way ... nice. Just reading the notice I felt scolded.
 
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#21
Can of worms (number 2) people always trot out about sparkies or plumbers doing work for free when comparing photographers getting paid (or not as the case may be). I hope those people moaning about that, don't do any work in the gardens as you can get gardeners to do that work. Do you cook? as there are chefs who can do that. What about washing your car there are people who do that as well.

Out of interest, what do you do for a living?

Do you want that role transferred to be a voluntary post?
 
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#22
You see you immediately go for the someone else doing my job for free. The fact is that for a lot of jobs you can't just rock up and do it. Sometimes for legal reasons. I am actually retired, so having answered your question perhaps you could answer mine, do you do anything around your house because if you do you do, by you are preventing other people from doing that job for you.

Clearly you don't use other people to do all your jobs around the house because you choose not too either because you want to do them yourself or you can't afford others to do it. So where is the difference?
 
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#23
On the plus side here though, having a uniform as a Fireman must help getting laid
Obviously they can't really promote that as a perk of the job, but maybe they're counting on some people to put two and two together in that particular way.
 
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#24
You see you immediately go for the someone else doing my job for free. The fact is that for a lot of jobs you can't just rock up and do it. Sometimes for legal reasons. I am actually retired, so having answered your question perhaps you could answer mine, do you do anything around your house because if you do you do, by you are preventing other people from doing that job for you.

Clearly you don't use other people to do all your jobs around the house because you choose not too either because you want to do them yourself or you can't afford others to do it. So where is the difference?
Why don't the firemen just take their own pictures then? If I asked someone to come cook my dinner I'd pay them, I have no idea what sort of point you're trying to make tbh, your posts are making no sense.
 
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#25
MY point is whenever these threads come up it always goes the same way.
Just wish we had a local plumber, electrician etc. like that
All I am saying is whilst some of you seem to believe that every time someone takes on a photography job for free the implication is that they are taking paid wok away from someone. You also do the same when you don't employ people to do work around your house.
 
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#26
Damn cheek if you ask me. They want you to not only give up your time for nothing but also use to use ones expensive gear which the won't even insure. On top of that demand the copyright and not even pay. Then there is the question of travel expenses, does that include the purchase of a vehicle in the first place. What about third party insurance as you are working on behalf of the fire service? What about if you get injured attending a shout,will you have included private medical treatment? would you be expected to go into a building to photograph fire damage after the was put out. What about being asked to photograph a dead body when discovered?

What about asking for the use of their fire engine if you want to go shopping? same thing, and I know what their answer would be.

It just goes to show how far removed management, like in most large organisations, are from reality



It is only a mug that would work on those terms
 
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#27
MY point is whenever these threads come up it always goes the same way.


All I am saying is whilst some of you seem to believe that every time someone takes on a photography job for free the implication is that they are taking paid wok away from someone. You also do the same when you don't employ people to do work around your house.
Ah, back to cooking. Or are you just stir-frying?
 
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#28
All I am saying is whilst some of you seem to believe that every time someone takes on a photography job for free the implication is that they are taking paid wok away from someone. You also do the same when you don't employ people to do work around your house.
You seem to be entirely missing or willfully evading the point.

This absolutely IS taking paid work away from photographers.

Not that long ago every brigade would have at least one staff PR photographer, or at the very least have a freelance PR photographer on call.
Now most services have farmed that work out to volunteers.

Most of them don't have the required legal knowledge to cover the service's arse and an awful lot produce substandard images.
 
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#29
It might suit a recent graduate with a photography/arts background looking to build up a portfolio.
With photographic copyright being retained by the fire service, what would the 'recent graduate' be able to build up a portfolio with?

Never mind, perhaps they might be able to take some nice photos on their way to and from the events they are required to attend? Also, I wonder how far the 'reasonable out of pocket expenses' will go towards replacing the photographer's camera and lenses when they've worn them out?

Then there's the requirement for 'access to a car'... I wonder if the photographer's motor insurance provider will deem this as 'business use' (particularly if journeys are not 'to and from a fixed place of work') rather than being 'social, domestic and pleasure'? If so, I wonder what the motor insurance premium would be to use a car in connection with working for the fire service as a photographer?

I know, why don't the fire service ask if any of their paid employees fancy filling the role of volunteer photographer instead? Perhaps one or two of them could be asked to do the job free of charge on their days off? The fire service could save money by not having to buy a uniform for someone else then too. There we go, sorted! :whistle:
 
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#30
MY point is whenever these threads come up it always goes the same way.


All I am saying is whilst some of you seem to believe that every time someone takes on a photography job for free the implication is that they are taking paid wok away from someone. You also do the same when you don't employ people to do work around your house.
That's NOT what I was implying at all - I was merely saying that I'd appreciate it if local tradespersons would offer their time for free too as I'd prefer not to pay them if I could :D

Your analogy is flawed too as doing 'work' in your own home is not the same as doing work on a voluntary basis for others. I also don't believe that people doing work for free are necessarily taking paid work away from others either

Dave
 
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#31
Right going to open a can of worms (number 1) here, but what is so bad about giving up your copyright for photographs that have a specific use?
Small can maybe - but NOPE nothing wrong with it at all if both parties are happy :)

Dave
 
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Kell
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#32
MY point is whenever these threads come up it always goes the same way.


All I am saying is whilst some of you seem to believe that every time someone takes on a photography job for free the implication is that they are taking paid wok away from someone. You also do the same when you don't employ people to do work around your house.
It is absolutely NOT the same thing.

Very few people in the modern era employ 'staff'. Gardeners, chefs, housekeepers etc. So doing those jobs yourself is something that the poor have always done.

The point here is that Brigade photographer used to be a paying job, and now they're expecting someone to not only do it for free, but to give up all rights to the images they take. So it wouldn't be ideal for someone starting out and wishing to build up their portfolio, as they wouldn't be able to use the shots.

It would be more suited to someone like you who's retired and wants to give something back to the community.

Your likening it to doing stuff around the house is incorrect, it would be more like comparing it to a hotel getting rid of a paid chef and then asking for someone to come in, unpaid and do it for free.

On the flipside, it's no different to any role where people volunteer. Charity shops have volunteer staff, many events have volunteer marshals. You could argue that having a volunteer photographer, might help the brigade retain another firefighter. I know who I'd rather have on their payroll if my house was burning down.
 
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#33
It might suit a recent graduate with a photography/arts background looking to build up a portfolio.
not sure you can get a portfolio if you don't own the copyright?
You seem to be entirely missing or willfully evading the point.

This absolutely IS taking paid work away from photographers.

Not that long ago every brigade would have at least one staff PR photographer, or at the very least have a freelance PR photographer on call.
Now most services have farmed that work out to volunteers.

Most of them don't have the required legal knowledge to cover the service's arse and an awful lot produce substandard images.
It could have easily been the case where someone working for the Fire organisation has seen an instance where a photographer has "volunteered" for free with similar terms and they then believe that is the value of the service, thus effectively devaluing the service.
 
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#35
You seem to be entirely missing or willfully evading the point.

This absolutely IS taking paid work away from photographers.

Not that long ago every brigade would have at least one staff PR photographer, or at the very least have a freelance PR photographer on call.
Now most services have farmed that work out to volunteers.

Most of them don't have the required legal knowledge to cover the service's arse and an awful lot produce substandard images.
I agree but when you have plenty of people happy to do the work for free and plenty of places willing to accept the work they produce that doesn't leave much room for someone who wants to be paid.
 
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#36
This is entirely insulting to the value of the time and skill and commitment of a photographer.
They even want to vet the quality of his work before "allowing" him to work for free.
" talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth"
They also "Require" the volunteer to be available on demand with out even paying a retainer or compensation for absence from employment.
I would also expect them to cover full insurance, or pay for its purchase.

It will be interesting to see if they get any "Takers"

However in the great scheme of things, I have no problem in doing voluntary photography, as I have done so for the local museum and the local church.
I have no problem in letting them use any photographs copyright free and for any purpose, though I retain the the Copyright myself.
As a retired professional I need to find such work "interesting" or I do not get involved. I certainly never feel "obliged" to do it.
This year I shall be volunteering to cover some major renovation work, which is taking the best part of a year to complete, for my local church, and supplying images to the Lottery fund who are paying most of the renovation costs.
 
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#37
Can of worms (number 2) people always trot out about sparkies or plumbers doing work for free when comparing photographers getting paid (or not as the case may be). I hope those people moaning about that, don't do any work in the gardens as you can get gardeners to do that work. Do you cook? as there are chefs who can do that. What about washing your car there are people who do that as well.
You've gotta be on the wind up surely?
 
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#38
Snip:

Yes, but surely the prospect of seeing poor-quality photographs of the incident afterwards would be intolerable?

;)
Maybe however if theres no financial remuneration for the photographer there can be no expectation or recourse if/when the images delivered are poor?


This is entirely insulting to the value of the time and skill and commitment of a photographer.
They even want to vet the quality of his work before "allowing" him to work for free.
" talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth"
They also "Require" the volunteer to be available on demand with out even paying a retainer or compensation for absence from employment.
I would also expect them to cover full insurance, or pay for its purchase.

It will be interesting to see if they get any "Takers"

However in the great scheme of things, I have no problem in doing voluntary photography, as I have done so for the local museum and the local church.
I have no problem in letting them use any photographs copyright free and for any purpose, though I retain the the Copyright myself.
As a retired professional I need to find such work "interesting" or I do not get involved. I certainly never feel "obliged" to do it.
This year I shall be volunteering to cover some major renovation work, which is taking the best part of a year to complete, for my local church, and supplying images to the Lottery fund who are paying most of the renovation costs.
Is this not too far short of slavery? working for nothing with everything stacked against the photographer?
 
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nandbytes

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#39
Is this not too far short of slavery? working for nothing with everything stacked against the photographer?
You are still free to stop volunteering/photographing. I don't think slaves have the option to stop "slaving".

But I take your point. Only if they shared the copyrights the rest would be more palatable
 

StephenM

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#40
Can of worms (number 2) people always trot out about sparkies or plumbers doing work for free when comparing photographers getting paid (or not as the case may be). I hope those people moaning about that, don't do any work in the gardens as you can get gardeners to do that work. Do you cook? as there are chefs who can do that. What about washing your car there are people who do that as well.
Well, any gardening work or cooking I do I do for my own benefit. The Fire Brigade is wanting people to work for their benefit. I don't do gardening for the neighbours, or pop into their kitchens to do their cooking.
 
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