Apple Silicon M1

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Richard
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I'm running a BenQ PD2720U 4K UHD Thunderbolt 3 Monitor. It has just one Thunderbolt/USB-C cable from the monitor into the MacBook Pro. This charges the MacBook at the same time as sending the video signals to the monitor. So I have just one plug to connect when I sit down at my desk. The separate keyboard plugs into the monitor too.
 
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One thing I hadn't realised is that the memory cannot be upgraded. Which seems a small price to pay for the performance. Until you realise that Apple want £200 for 16GB.... :D
£200 is a lot for 8GB of RAM. But on the other hand, you got to remember this is SoC, where the larger RAM variants will have less yield than the smaller chips with less RAM. TSMC 5nm is pretty new, yield will drop significantly as you increase the size of each chip.

So I think the rumoured high end 32 core will have external memory to cut down on silicon cost. Whether it's user upgradable (memory slots) that's another matter.
 

nandbytes

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I HOPE they keep the user upgradable aspect for the RAM in the iMac.
the whole point of the SoC design is to have everything on the chip close together tightly coupled. this removes any hopes of customisability but makes things more efficient performance wise.
 

nandbytes

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Yes I know, hence HOPE.
i understand your hope but are you also hoping for the same level of performance in that case?
i don't see the benefit of the SoC design at that point if you need to go back to amassing RAM to get better performance.
 
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Raymond
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i understand your hope but are you also hoping for the same level of performance in that case?
i don't see the benefit of the SoC design at that point if you need to go back to amassing RAM to get better performance.
We are not Apple Engineers so I HOPE (in capitals) they find ways to get round it, may be 16G SOC and still 16G expandable, slower, yes but better than stuck at 16G.
 
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i don't see the benefit of the SoC design at that point if you need to go back to amassing RAM to get better performance.
It's not about the amount of RAM. That's more to do with Apple's software-hardware vertical integration.

The point of SoC as you've correctly pointed out is to be more efficient and better performance. So putting RAM off-chip would only affect its power efficiency and performance (mainly latency). A good middle ground between smaller die (higher yield so lower BOM) and similar performance is you can have RAM on the same substrate as chiplets. (still not upgradable though)

Also, they don't HAVE to do SoC. The speed benefit doesn't come from it being a SoC. It comes from their customisation of ARM RISC architecture and their vertical integration.
 
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Jonathan
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It's a system on a chip, so by definition the RAM, CPU and GPU must all be non-upgradeable
Well, I know that _now_ :)

But I'm not really hardware person, it doesn't matter how often they say "SOC" to me, until somebody says "so the RAM is an integral part of it and cannot be upgraded" I really don't internalise it.

£200 is a lot for 8GB of RAM. But on the other hand, you got to remember this is SoC, where the larger RAM variants will have less yield than the smaller chips with less RAM. TSMC 5nm is pretty new, yield will drop significantly as you increase the size of each chip.

So I think the rumoured high end 32 core will have external memory to cut down on silicon cost. Whether it's user upgradable (memory slots) that's another matter.
You're right of course. £200 is crazy to add 16GB of Ram (even for Apple) but as you say, it's a case of buying a whole different chip.

And if you want to see just what a bargain the minis are, they are like £50 more than Apple's new headphones :D
 

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And if you want to see just what a bargain the minis are, they are like £50 more than Apple's new headphones :D
That is all relative. The base mini has always been around there so its really nothing new, other than a bit of a leap in their tech in general. I think more importantly many of use would make quite a different conclusion if the Air had another 2 ports... That's a screen and portability for just another £300.
 
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That is all relative. The base mini has always been around there so its really nothing new, other than a bit of a leap in their tech in general. I think more importantly many of use would make quite a different conclusion if the Air had another 2 ports... That's a screen and portability for just another £300.
£300? That's about the cost of a new battery for their headphones....
 
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This video explains how the Apple Silicon came to be and what it's all about.

Also, one can't really compare the normal RAM to that on the M1, that would be like comparing 50mg of Paracetamol with 50mg of Ibuprofen - just because both say 50gm doesn't mean they perform the same.

Lastly, unless the point of purchase is just before the release of a new model, I'm really struggling to understand the sentiment of ' there's going to be X model next year, let's wait '. I mean, there's always going to be a newer better model every year - that's how the manufacturer gets you to buy new gear.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuF9weSkS68
 
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Lastly, unless the point of purchase is just before the release of a new model, I'm really struggling to understand the sentiment of ' there's going to be X model next year, let's wait '. I mean, there's always going to be a newer better model every year - that's how the manufacturer gets you to buy new gear.
I get your point. I'm one of those fence sitters. My current iMac is a 2012 21.5 inch model that I got in 2013. I really need to start looking at upgrading but from my point of view I'm looking for something that will last 7-8 years like my last one did. Now do I get the latest M1 Mac mini that looks like it will perform much better than my existing iMac and hope it will last as long as that without needing to upgrade, or wait for the next Mac mini model with what is likely to have a faster chip that should therefore have a longer lifespan for me my use than the M1 Mac mini. If I was only looking at potentially a 2-3 year lifespan than the M1 Mac mini would be a no brainer. When looking at the prices £899 for M1 Mac mini with 256GB SSD and 16GB RAM is a fantastic price and should meet my current needs quite well. 512GB SSD would give more future proofing but that's £200 more (initially I was looking at the 1TB SSD option but that seems a bit overkill as I mainly use the Mac for Lightroom). I already have a good 4k screen, apple magic keyboard/mouse and thunderbolt 2 external storage so the Mac mini is definitely the cheapest option for staying with apple. It's just a case of when to jump and IF I really need to make the jump at this point and can wait a bit longer.
 
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I get your point. I'm one of those fence sitters. My current iMac is a 2012 21.5 inch model that I got in 2013. I really need to start looking at upgrading but from my point of view I'm looking for something that will last 7-8 years like my last one did. Now do I get the latest M1 Mac mini that looks like it will perform much better than my existing iMac and hope it will last as long as that without needing to upgrade, or wait for the next Mac mini model with what is likely to have a faster chip that should therefore have a longer lifespan for me my use than the M1 Mac mini. If I was only looking at potentially a 2-3 year lifespan than the M1 Mac mini would be a no brainer. When looking at the prices £899 for M1 Mac mini with 256GB SSD and 16GB RAM is a fantastic price and should meet my current needs quite well. 512GB SSD would give more future proofing but that's £200 more (initially I was looking at the 1TB SSD option but that seems a bit overkill as I mainly use the Mac for Lightroom). I already have a good 4k screen, apple magic keyboard/mouse and thunderbolt 2 external storage so the Mac mini is definitely the cheapest option for staying with apple. It's just a case of when to jump and IF I really need to make the jump at this point and can wait a bit longer.
Rob, I think it's reasonable to update a 2012 model - it's 8 years old after all. But doing it next year will obviously get you a faster machine, and an even faster one the year after that. I guess it's a question of how long you're happy keep using the existing machine you have.
 
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Rob, I think it's reasonable to update a 2012 model - it's 8 years old after all. But doing it next year will obviously get you a faster machine, and an even faster one the year after that. I guess it's a question of how long you're happy keep using the existing machine you have.
As a friend of mine likes to say, "now is the worst time to buy a computer. And it always will be...."
 
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Rob, I think it's reasonable to update a 2012 model - it's 8 years old after all. But doing it next year will obviously get you a faster machine, and an even faster one the year after that. I guess it's a question of how long you're happy keep using the existing machine you have.
Its been 7 years so far so I'm not one for quick decisions on things like this. I could probably go on longer for a while yet. I've been thinking of upgrading for the last two years! Heck, only today I've moved from ADSL broadband to fibre broadband (a decision I've been thinking of doing for at least 3 years!.Can't believe I've waited this long, but it took it to be nearly unusable before we made the decision (we only have a single option for fibre which didn't help). If only the iMac failed it would be so much easier if the decision was made for me!
 
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I am very tempted, hovered over the buy button a few times now, but have decided to wait.

Three reasons:
1. I use all the adobe products and they have not been optimised for the new system so I won't see a huge speed difference.
2. I would prefer a bigger screen, especially when working away from my desk and larger monitor.
3. My 2015 mbp is adequate for most of what I do, bit slow on rendering video but manageable.

If my mbp was on its last legs or causing me problems, I would look past 1 and 2 and buy now.

T
 
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My mini arrive yesterday so I got to have a play about today and get everything setup. All I can say is wow.

my current iMac is a 20155k retina with a 4ghz i7 processor, 32gb ram, the upgraded GPU which at the time was a 4gb Radeon something or other that cost me an extra £400 I think.

lightroom was never particularly bad performance wise but there was definitely some lag here and there especially once a few local adjustments had been added, brush would sometimes stutter while painting and it would take a few seconds to render full quality when zooming in. Capture One was useable and actually pretty good performance wise but Luma Range masking was impossible to use. I have to click the slider, wait about 4-5 seconds then click the slider again before I could start moving it, viewing the mask took ages to display it was awful.

Mac Mini on a 4K screen, everything just works and works fast, no stuttering brushes, no lag, full image resolution is immediate when zooming in, Capture One’s Luma range is as smooth as a babies bottom.

the only downside is I can’t calibrate the screen. It seems that with the new hardware none of the profiling apps work yet, but they seem to be working on it.
 
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nandbytes

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My mini arrive yesterday so I got to have a play about today and get everything setup. All I can say is wow.

my current iMac is a 20155k retina with a 4ghz i7 processor, 32gb ram, the upgraded GPU which at the time was a 4gb Radeon something or other that cost me an extra £400 I think.

lightroom was never particularly bad performance wise but there was definitely some lag here and there especially once a few local adjustments had been added, brush would sometimes stutter while painting and it would take a few seconds to render full quality when zooming in. Capture One was useable and actually pretty good performance wise but Luma Range masking was impossible to use. I have to click the slider, wait about 4-5 seconds then click the slider again before I could start moving it, viewing the mask took ages to display it was awful.

Mac Mini on a 4K screen, everything just works and works fast, no stuttering brushes, no lag, full image resolution is immediate when zooming in, Capture One’s Luma range is as smooth as a babies bottom.

the only downside is I can’t calibrate the screen. It seems that with the new hardware none of the profiling apps work yet, but they seem to be working on it.
that's really encouraging to hear. i have already sold my iMac (which was pretty much same specs as your but mine had 16GB RAM).
hopefully i won't regret it with the M1 macbook air.
 
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There is no point in upgrading anything. if you have no need to.
When you arrive at the point that you do have such a need, then that is the best time to look around, compare. and make the move.
In this way all your needs will be served at the lowest cost, and with the maximum future proofing.
Apple kit is no different.

Anything else is just GAS.
 
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I have to admit that a mini is tempting me back to Apple after all this time. My XPS is now 6.5 years old, and although quite acceptable, it could be usefully faster and smoother with brushes and spot removal.

But I WILL resist.
 
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1. I use all the adobe products and they have not been optimised for the new system so I won't see a huge speed difference.
You can already run Lightroom natively, see here. Photoshop in 2021 according to Adobe.
 
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Was thinking of the non-sub based version, as I know there are still people that uses this 'Classic'. But this has already been officially abandoned by Adobe in '17 (had to look this up) so my point is, well, pointless.
 
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Was thinking of the non-sub based version, as I know there are still people that uses this 'Classic'. But this has already been officially abandoned by Adobe in '17 (had to look this up) so my point is, well, pointless.
The Adobe photography plan subscription includes 3 apps ‘Photoshop Lightroom’, ‘Photoshop Lightroom Classic’ and ‘’Photoshop’ to give them proper Adobe names.

‘Photoshop Lightroom’ is the app that’s been updated. We’re still waiting for the other two (said to be sometime in 2021). You’re right the non subscription version (Lightroom 6) won’t be updated as it’s not a currently available product (it was dropped several years ago). I doubt any users of that are expecting adobe to transfer that to ARM.

Lots of people on the subscription version likely use ‘Photoshop Lightroom Classic’ rather than the cut down version ‘Photoshop Lightroom’ so are really waiting for the ‘classic’ version. The other makes a great headline that a version was available within one month.
 
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This video explains how the Apple Silicon came to be and what it's all about.

Also, one can't really compare the normal RAM to that on the M1, that would be like comparing 50mg of Paracetamol with 50mg of Ibuprofen - just because both say 50gm doesn't mean they perform the same.

Lastly, unless the point of purchase is just before the release of a new model, I'm really struggling to understand the sentiment of ' there's going to be X model next year, let's wait '. I mean, there's always going to be a newer better model every year - that's how the manufacturer gets you to buy new gear.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuF9weSkS68
That was a very interesting video, thanks.
 

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The Adobe photography plan subscription includes 3 apps ‘Photoshop Lightroom’, ‘Photoshop Lightroom Classic’ and ‘’Photoshop’ to give them proper Adobe names.
In real life they should be called Photoshop, lightroom and lightroom lite / cloud. The latter is full of unwanted functionality but seriously lacking in other departments. If they ever make the mistake of killing either of the proper two apps I'm leaving the ship.
 
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Hmm... I can try to see if Lightroom 5 will run on my new M1 Macbook Air via Rosetta...?
 

LongLensPhotography

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Hmm... I can try to see if Lightroom 5 will run on my new M1 Macbook Air via Rosetta...?
You may find it difficult or plain impossible to install it on the last 3 Intel versions of Mac OS. That is because of 32bit code which apple no longer supports. If you had it already installed it would still work.


There is absolutely zero chance of installing and running anything with 32bit code on M1.
 
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^ Didn't know that, or rather, didn't realise it.
 
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