Are DSLRs too complex for beginners

Messages
204
Name
Geoff
Edit My Images
Yes
I don't think so but I do think the wrong advice is usually given. The usual question is I HAVE BOUGHT/AM THINKING OF BUYING A DSLR I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW TO SET IT. The usual answer is set it on auto until you feel confident with it. My advice would be set it to manual. Why do I think this. In 1970 when I was a young lad of 17 I bought a Practica Super TL. Manual only, aperture priority didn't exist until 1972. I never had a problem with it. Learnt about shutter speeds and apertures not rocket science. This knowledge was the bedrock to how I shoot today knowing that my intelligent camera is giving me appropriate settings.
 
I too grew up with film and I sort of agree but I use aperture most of the time and only switch to manual when the light level drops and the camera wants to shoot at 1/60.

I don't use most of the functions of my cameras, the things that are important to me are how to set the aperture, shutter and ISO, how to move the focus point and home it again, how to change metering modes, how to format the card and how to set the clock. That's pretty much it.
 
As I knock around my city's photogenic spots with my camera I sometimes bump into novices with DSLRs who are struggling to work out how to control their cameras in full manual. I stood beside one such when we spotted a heron in a nearby tree. As we approached the tree slowly and cautiously I got in a few good shots among the few dozen I took before the heron flew away. He didn't get any because he was still struggling to get the exposure right when the heron flew away.

I suggested to him that under the circumstances of limited time he would have been better to switch to one of the auto modes which would have got at least usabel exposures. He explained to me that that was a temptation he had to do his best to avoid if ever he were to master the business of photographing in full manual. His highly respected tutor shot everything in full manual very quickly indeed and got very good results most of the time, much better results than anyone using any of the camera's auto modes could ever have got. He just needed more practice. I asked how long he'd been practising. He told me three years, but explained that due to pressures of work etc. he didn't get out often enough to do enough practising to let it all properly sink in. He thought that probably several more weeks of intensive practise, which he was just starting, would do the trick.

I asked him some questions about the "exposure triangle". His understanding was pretty sketchy, but he insisted that trying to understand the complicated theory was a waste of time. It was practising and observing the results that mattered. I tried to argue him out of that, but it was what his tutor had taught him, and his tutor had mastered full manual rapid shooting in all conditions, whereas I obviously hadn't. He was right. I learned how to shoot in full manual 60 years ago before auto modes had been invented. Unlike him (and his tutor) however, I thought that understanding the theoretical "complications" was an essential prerequisite. I also found the invention of the various auto features when they arrived extremely useful. I'm quite happy using full manual, and always use it when setting up lighting with multiple strobes, but apart from that I use it less than 1% of the time.

I'm saddened by these novices I meet who are vainly struggling with full manual, hoping that if they just do enough practice the penny will magically drop. I think it's a superstition.
 
When I had my first dslr it was an entry level model and although it did everything thing I wanted, i wanted to step up from entry level to enthusiast. I find this camera easier to use, it's just more ergonomic. Most of the buttons and settings are at my finger tips and once you learn where everything is you don't need to move the camera from your eye to look for settings in the menu.
 
Pretty condescending thread this :(

OP says its not rocket science.. well to some it may as well be..... you need to consider that we are all different.. some learn easier than others. it took me longer than most to get to grips with it.. a very long time... others find it easy and then decide everyone else is thick ..
 
To me, the end result is all that matters. I, too, learnt photography on an entirely manual camera (a 1930s Agfa folding camera, as it happens) and have no problem using manual on any of my film cameras (mostly no choice) or my three digital cameras - but I use auto most of the time when it's available. To do otherwise is like insisting on grinding your own lenses so you can fully understand optics, or writing your own demosaicing software so you can fully control that process. I control what needs controlling (composition, in the main) and let the technology do what it does best.
 
Pretty condescending thread this :(

OP says its not rocket science.. well to some it may as well be..... you need to consider that we are all different.. some learn easier than others. it took me longer than most to get to grips with it.. a very long time... others find it easy and then decide everyone else is thick ..

I don't think condescending is the right word.

I've seen people struggling and usually it's because they've got the idea from somewhere that the thing they're struggling to do is what they should be doing. Sometimes people are open to considering something else, sometimes they don't think I'm the person to listen to. Fair enough. But maybe a seed can be planted and they'll go off and think about what they're doing, how and if there's another way.

I don't think that DSLR's are too complex though, not any more so than your average phone is too complex. Simply ignoring the features you don't need helps a lot IMO.
 
The huge numbers of people who use them day to day without problems shows they are not too complex - but there is a degree of complexity, and I suspect in many cases the problem is not having suitable initial instruction.

Different people learn things best in different ways, and at different speeds - and anyone trying to help someone else learn how to use a DSLR (or any camera with a full set of controls) needs to take that into consideration.

Personally, I would never suggest setting a camera on manual as a starting point - too many variables - but how quickly a beginner progresses to the point where they can experiment with full manual will be down to that individual.
 
I didn't mean it to be condescending. I was trying to help people make some choices. I suppose there are people who are point and shooters, not interested in how it's produced as long as they get an image. Impossible in 1970 as you had to make those choices. I spent all my time reading library books about camera settings. I didn't consider myself clever I failed my 11 plus. If you are happy being a point and shooter then OK. I rarely use manual myself nowadays but I'm always aware of what setting my camera is giving me.
 
...I rarely use manual myself nowadays but I'm always aware of what setting my camera is giving me.

I think this is the right approach - an understanding of the role the different settings have in producing the image is important, and it's this understanding that lets the more experienced photographer chose between the different auto, semi-auto or manual control modes.

If all you're going to do in manual, for example is chose an aperture, then adjust shutter to centre the exposure needle, you might as well shoot in Aperture priority and have the electronics do the hard work (saves time and less wear on the shutter speed dial!) :)
 
Use any help available, whether it be a semi automatic (or even fully so) mode or full manual.
 
I suppose there are people who are point and shooters, not interested in how it's produced as long as they get an image. Impossible in 1970 as you had to make those choices.

There weren't many choices on my Instamatic in the 1970s.
 
I too grew up with film and I sort of agree but I use aperture most of the time and only switch to manual when the light level drops and the camera wants to shoot at 1/60.

I don't use most of the functions of my cameras, the things that are important to me are how to set the aperture, shutter and ISO, how to move the focus point and home it again, how to change metering modes, how to format the card and how to set the clock. That's pretty much it.

To that list I would add exposure compensation - how to use it and when.

That way you can use your semi- auto settings but over-ride them when necessary.

I must admit I've never found any need to use full manual. In the very earliest days with my Practika I may have done because there was no auto-anything, but why disregard automation if it's helpful?
 
I dont think DSLR's are to complicated. I think the users are impatient, throw away the manual to soon sometimes without reading and only taking (the wrong) advise from one "Guru". Reading the manual thoroughly, reading books and watching youtube videos on handling your camera is great ways of learning but people tend to ask one specific question and don't want to know about the rest (n)
 
Thinking about it there is another variable these days, dialling in your ISO. Before digital you put your film in and you were stuck with it unless you were rich enough to own 2 bodies I wasn't my Praktica cost me £70. Just done a calc on the web and its over £1000 today. Aren't we lucky.
 
Unless you're very lucky and just naturally gifted, I would say you're unlikely to get very good at something if you don't understand it. Yes, you may be able to do just enough to get by, but to excel at something you really need to understand it first. That's obviously just the first step or the foundation. After that it takes more work......
But the point I really want to make is that there has never been a time when it was easier to learn something. It's not like you have to trek down to the library or buy a set of encyclopedias anymore, most people who are new to photography now have instant access to an infinite amount of learning material via the internet. Also, with digital photography, you haven't got the cost of film + developing, you can take as many bad photos as you like without worry. I'm only a typical amateur but when I first decided I wanted to take better photographs, I spent hours reading online and stumbling across the exposure triangle which led onto each of the separate aspects and their characteristics. Add to that the readily available source of inspiration from Flickr etc. to go out and try it yourself means that if someone wants to learn then they will. If they can't be bothered, well that's up to them.......But it has literally never been easier.
 
As a beginner myself, I don't think the camera is the complicated part .... it is how to get the best out of the functions which is the complicated part.
Since getting mine, I haven't used full auto once, I use aperture mode mainly and sometimes full manual. I will admit that I have only partly read about certain things and watched a few youtube videos, most of my picture taking is trial and error on my part.... I know that I need to do more research and learn more about what works best for what ever pictures you want to take, then apply that learning to the settings/functions available on the camera.
My excuse will always be time, finding the time to sit down and do the research, given that there is so much of it available these days, but I would rather just go and take pictures, I am sure most people will use that excuse as well.
 
Full manual is overkill as a starting point. Auto exposure is good to use until you understand the auto focus systems on the camera.
Once you know how auto focus works, learning the effects of aperture or shutter speed while using AF and either auto ISO or a set ISO is easiest to do in priority modes for each.
 
I think the entry-level models do a good job of hiding the complexity. It's there if you want to progress beyond the Auto setting but I suspect the majority of owners these days neither want nor need to take full control.
 
I grew up with a practical manual film camera and understand the exposure triangle inside out.

What i struggle with are the hundreds of options in the menu of a modern dslr. Fortunately none are that important (apart from remembering to set .raw!)
 
Full manual is overkill as a starting point. Auto exposure is good to use until you understand the auto focus systems on the camera.
Once you know how auto focus works, learning the effects of aperture or shutter speed while using AF and either auto ISO or a set ISO is easiest to do in priority modes for each.


Auto focus would be the last thing I'd imagine a beginner needs to learn.

The exposure triangle is far more important I'd have said.
 
After several years trying to learn with books, web pages and YouTube videos I took a year’s evening classes last year and very happy that I did. We started off with the exposure triangle, composition before venturing into anything more complicated. Many of the things I learned piecemeal up to then fell into place. Maybe not for everyone but face to face in a classroom worked really well for me. Back to the OPs question about DSLRs being too complex for beginners, in my experience when I started I would say no, however now I am much more confident to use what I need much more quickly and effectively with hardly any trial and error.
 
Auto focus would be the last thing I'd imagine a beginner needs to learn.

The exposure triangle is far more important I'd have said.

IMO the exposure triangle is the most important thing to learn. When I used my old Canon it was always on Aperture mode, but now I have both my X series on full manual and that does for me, I have always been lucky at being able to pick up the camera and learn quick.
 
Learning to use a DSLR is one thing but there is also learning to photograph and compose well. Learning a DSLR inside out won't teach you this. Then there are those who say you either have the eye for it or you don't...

What is people's experience/opinion on this
 
Last edited:
Learning to use a DSLR is one thing but there is also learning to photograph and compose well. Learning a DSLR inside out won't teach you this. Then there are those who say you either have the eye for it or you don't...

What is people's experience/opinion on this


Years ago I was a member of a forum called MyFinePix, one young lad on it had a fantastic eye for the lot in the art of photography, he won many cameras too.
 
Years ago I was a member of a forum called MyFinePix, one young lad on it had a fantastic eye for the lot in the art of photography, he won many cameras too.

Well perhaps there are naturals, just as the are in many other fields. But I don't think it's impossible to practice, learn and become as good if not better.
 
I think there is the technical side of it. And there is the artistic side of it.

A good photographer will produce a better picture with an iPhone than most people (myself included) could manage with a top of the range SLR.

Conversely, there are people that can take a photograph that is technically 'correct' in terms of exposure, but lacks a certain something that makes it a good shot.

I studied photography at college and the focus (pardon the pun) was on knowledge of how to things things technically well. I remember having to write a dissertation on why, when photographing a blue billiard ball under studio lights the prints came back with the ball as white.

I stunned myself when I came across the (handwritten) essay the other day as it correctly described the wavelengths of the various colours and why this had happened. I'd forgotten I'd even forgotten this information. And I must have known it as this was pre-internet.

So I guess my long-winded answer is that practice makes perfect, but starting with a good knowledge of the basics should be important.
 
I'm quite happy operating a camera in full manual mode. At least 99% of the time, however, I don't use manual simply because it takes longer to get to the settings I want. It takes 3 settings to adjust aperture, shutter, and ISO. Whereas in a partial auto mode, such as Aperture, it usually only takes me one, sometimes two, the second being exposure compensation, and occasionally three, when I discover that difficult conditions are forcing me into an unpleasant compromise.

I use AF nearly all the time, but I have focus peaking turned on so I can keep an eye on where the AF has actually taken the focus. When it gets it wrong I nudge it right with manual focus.
 
Other types of sopistcated interchangeable lens cameras without big flappy mirrors are available.

I have no wish to own a DSLR and they are not necessary for beginners either.
 
Last edited:
Learning to use a DSLR is one thing but there is also learning to photograph and compose well. Learning a DSLR inside out won't teach you this. Then there are those who say you either have the eye for it or you don't...

What is people's experience/opinion on this

From my experience good composition is something that can be learned. I am skeptical that many people are naturals at it. There are parallels with the technical side of photography in my view, there are so many things to consider in composition it can be as overwhelming as getting the settings right. Building it up with lots of practice and experimentation in much the same way as the technical side helps me a lot.
 
I'm not sceptical that some people are naturally able to compose pictures because I was told I had 'an eye for composition' by art teachers when I was young. And later people told me I have an eye for a photograph. It really does come naturally to me and while I do think about how to frame shots it's not in a reasoned way. I just move the frame around until it looks right.

That's not to say that I'm suggesting that compositional skills can't be improved if they don't come intuitively, or even if they do. The trouble is that if you rigidly apply rules and logic to picture making the results can end up looking mannered or forced. Slight 'flaws' can make pictures come alive.

As for operating a camera. well, it's not really difficult, is it?
 
Ed, to expand a bit - I was thinking more about starting in your imagination with what message do I want to convey with the image, leading to ideas of how that could look, to then how will I get that, where do I need to go, when etc etc and going and getting it, I wasn’t really think of rules and logic. Regarding operating cameras, while it’s easy enough to press a shutter button, the whole process can be very complex I would say if you are directing models, operating in a fast paced event and so on and bringing it altogether to get a great image is not so easy, no?
 
I suspect that you can be born with a natural eye, or you can learn to have one.

The modern camera is a hand-held computer, and like much desktop software, has far more adjustments than the average sensible person will need or use. So there's a degree of redundancy.

What I regret not having on a roll-film camera by comparison though is a way to choose a different iso frame by frame - so digital wins there.
 
Last edited:
Ed, to expand a bit - I was thinking more about starting in your imagination with what message do I want to convey with the image, leading to ideas of how that could look, to then how will I get that, where do I need to go, when etc etc and going and getting it, I wasn’t really think of rules and logic.

That's not what is usually understood to be 'composition' in photographic terms, though. It usually refers to what I think of as 'framing'. Although I would suggest composition really should also include light and shade, colour, gesture and so forth. Which all comes together to how the picture gets it's message across..

Regarding operating cameras, while it’s easy enough to press a shutter button, the whole process can be very complex I would say if you are directing models, operating in a fast paced event and so on and bringing it altogether to get a great image is not so easy, no?

Surely that's down to practice? Getting to the stage where you can operate a camera without thinking where to put your fingers in the way you learn how to drive a car. Once you've learned how to drive you don't 'think' about driving. When you are familiar with a camera to the same degree you can concentrate on what's in front of you and framing shots etc..
 
Depends how intelligent etc. Some cant do basic tasks and one guy I know can build a house to high standards by himself except where absolutely necessary to have more than one person.
 
Thanks to everyone some good points came out there
 
Back
Top