At last London is taking dirty diesel seriously

Its nothing short of disgraceful, not necessarily for London but these taxes being imposed in numerous cities across the country - what are people supposed to do if they have diesel cars which up till recently people had been encouraged to buy?
 
Mr Bump said:
About time !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39488291
Click to expand...
Not that seriously if it doesn't start until 2019.
No mention of taxing the diesel generators being used on building sites though.

cambsno said:
Its nothing short of disgraceful, not necessarily for London but these taxes being imposed in numerous cities across the country - what are people supposed to do if they have diesel cars which up till recently people had been encouraged to buy?
Click to expand...
They have two years to buy another, hardly the end of the world.
 
Will this new tax include delivery vehicles that deliver all sorts of goods to shops stores etc within the city? I don't see a mention in the above article.
 
frank said:
Will this new tax include delivery vehicles that deliver all sorts of goods to shops stores etc within the city? I don't see a mention in the above article.
Click to expand...
It's right at the beginning of the article. Any van, bus, coach or hub not to euro6 emissions will be liable to £100 a day
 
frank said:
Will this new tax include delivery vehicles that deliver all sorts of goods to shops stores etc within the city? I don't see a mention in the above article.
Click to expand...

yep £100/day
 
Whoops missed that bit. I daresay central London and other cities who adopt this tax can expect a steep rise in shop prices and delivery charges etc. At the end of the day it will be the walking public who will also suffer the extra costs. I'm sure the haulage/delivery companies will be adding the charge to their customers.
 
frank said:
Whoops missed that bit. I daresay central London and other cities who adopt this tax can expect a steep rise in shop prices and delivery charges etc. At the end of the day it will be the walking public who will also suffer the extra costs. I'm sure the haulage/delivery companies will be adding the charge to their customers.
Click to expand...
It doesn't start for another 2 years. There were aftermarket particulate filters available when the initial emissions zone was introduced. No real reason why further emission controls can't be added to bring commercial vehicles up to spec.
 
nilagin said:
It's right at the beginning of the article. Any van, bus, coach or hub not to euro6 emissions will be liable to £100 a day
Click to expand...


Except Black Cabs IIRC but including police cars, Fire appliances and Ambulances.
 
What politicians want and what can realistically be achieved are two different things.
 
nilagin said:
Not that seriously if it doesn't start until 2019.
No mention of taxing the diesel generators being used on building sites though.


They have two years to buy another, hardly the end of the world.
Click to expand...

But what do you think the trade in value will be on the diesel people have. I mean who would buy one now?
 
I'm just disappointed that it does not apply within the M25.
(while I currently drive a diesel that might be charged by T-charge, it's near the Euro emissions change year)

Let's face it, diesels have no place in the city when you only do short/slow runs, because you can rarely exceed 30 mph. Regularly popping down to the shops in a diesel is asking for DPF trouble. The public are missold on the diesel promise, it's an engine for the motorway, nothing else. Anyone doing less than 15,000 miles PA on the motorway should not be buying diesel. I'm glad a spotlight is being put on diesel and make the public really think about their suitability.

For inner city goods delivery, Nissian e-NV200 with 100+ miles range is all that's needed. 100 miles is pretty much a whole day in the van when driving in London.

To be honest, I think people are genuinely over-buying their cars. People buy for when they *might* take a holiday driving 600 miles with luggage space, but people will drive the same car all year long, wasting fuel and road space. I drive a small-ish coupe, good aerodynamics for my motorway commute, large enough for my daily needs. Then I rent a boxy 7 seater when I need the bigger car. Same for diesels, people *think* they will get good fuel economy just by choosing diesel, but they should be factoring their daily use case. This will be the same for EV in the future, people *think* they need 400 miles car, when they do no more than 100 miles a day.
 
cambsno said:
But what do you think the trade in value will be on the diesel people have. I mean who would buy one now?
Click to expand...
Trade it in or sell it away from big cities the whole of Britain
wuyanxu said:
I'm just disappointed that it does not apply within the M25.
(while I currently drive a diesel that might be charged by T-charge, it's near the Euro emissions change year)

Let's face it, diesels have no place in the city when you only do short/slow runs, because you can rarely exceed 30 mph. Regularly popping down to the shops in a diesel is asking for DPF trouble. The public are missold on the diesel promise, it's an engine for the motorway, nothing else. Anyone doing less than 15,000 miles PA on the motorway should not be buying diesel. I'm glad a spotlight is being put on diesel and make the public really think about their suitability.

For inner city goods delivery, Nissian e-NV200 with 100+ miles range is all that's needed. 100 miles is pretty much a whole day in the van when driving in London.

To be honest, I think people are genuinely over-buying their cars. People buy for when they *might* take a holiday driving 600 miles with luggage space, but people will drive the same car all year long, wasting fuel and road space. I drive a small-ish coupe, good aerodynamics for my motorway commute, large enough for my daily needs. Then I rent a boxy 7 seater when I need the bigger car. Same for diesels, people *think* they will get good fuel economy just by choosing diesel, but they should be factoring their daily use case. This will be the same for EV in the future, people *think* they need 400 miles car, when they do no more than 100 miles a day.
Click to expand...

My previous car was a Mondeo STTDCi it averaged 60mpg and I only did 12k a year. Like for like alternative would have been an ST200 which would have returned 30 mpg at best. I only got rid of it as my daily commute is now shorter and it never warmed up by the time I got too work.
 
nilagin said:
and I am confused by this statement
Click to expand...
Its ok once they have got rid of all the diesels, then they will find a reason why petrol engines are killing the other half of the population that diesel didn't kill.
;)
 
The bigger question is why are Taxies exempt.:confused:
 
Cobra said:
Its ok once they have got rid of all the diesels, then they will find a reason why petrol engines are killing the other half of the population that diesel didn't kill.
;)
Click to expand...
Pre Euro 4 petrol engines are included in the tax.
 
Thing that amuses me is that for example a super charged 10+ year old 5 litre range rover is perfectly fine and meets eu 4 but a 3 year old diesel anything pretty much will have to pay.

I may have to scratch the overfinch itch :)
 
srichards said:
Thing that amuses me is that for example a super charged 10+ year old 5 litre range rover is perfectly fine and meets eu 4 but a 3 year old diesel anything pretty much will have to pay.

I may have to scratch the overfinch itch :)
Click to expand...

because as has been said doens of times and i think you know aswell it is about particulates ONLY produced by diesel engines.
 
When I worked in Seoul in the late 90's all the taxis and buses ran on LPG :)
 
Mr Bump said:
because as has been said doens of times and i think you know aswell it is about particulates ONLY produced by diesel engines.
Click to expand...
Direct injection petrol engine produce the same particulates, they are just smaller in size.
 
srichards said:
Thing that amuses me is that for example a super charged 10+ year old 5 litre range rover is perfectly fine and meets eu 4 but a 3 year old diesel anything pretty much will have to pay.

I may have to scratch the overfinch itch :)
Click to expand...
Vehicles such as Overfinch are an upmarket upgrade, emission taxation regulations only concern the vehicle as it leaves the original factory.
 
cambsno said:
But what do you think the trade in value will be on the diesel people have. I mean who would buy one now?
Click to expand...
Me. Still the best tool for the job here. I mean show me a decent size car that returns 55-60mpg and won't turn into an asthmatic 50 a day smoker when loaded to the rafters. If work have to ship me to London on a job the that cost will most likely get passed to the client one way or another.
 
oh well as usual a few" gooders " thinking we should all go back to riding bikes to work and back . a petrol car won't be much use to the millions of large caravan owners in the country ,they need a diesel for the economy and the torque ,kill the diesel engine and hundreds of jobs will start to disappear in caravan building ,caravan dealers ,repair facilities ,camp sites and the tourist industry ,it won't happen overnight but it will creep up slowly ,love to see a electric car towing a 20ft 6 berth twin wheeler ,and what about motorhomes there virtually all diesel to .
a ill thought out vote catcher by a idiotic mayor of london who hasn't taken the time to look at cause and effect ,as soon as taxation is mentioned all the f*****g grubby fingered town hall despots start rubbing there greasy little hands together .

and do what you like london i turned my back on you 50 years ago ,i'll keep my lovely comfortable and fast volvo s60 auto tdi ,2.4 litre diesel and keep giving it a good black smoke inducing blow through every morning .especially when the winds blowing south east :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:
 
dizidav said:
The bigger question is why are Taxies exempt.:confused:
Click to expand...

There are other rules for taxis in the offing.

The Mayor and TfL have today confirmed to the taxi and private hire trades how they will play their part in improving London's air quality when the world's first Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) is introduced in the Capital in 2020.

From 1 January 2018, all taxis licensed for the first time must be zero emission capable, while new diesel taxis will not be allowed in London.

For private hire vehicles, there are several milestones which will ensure that all vehicles granted a private hire licence for the first time after 1 January 2023 will be zero emission capable, regardless of age:

  • In advance of the ULEZ requirements, and to clean up the private hire fleet, all private hire vehicles licensed for the first time between 1 January 2018 and 31 December 2019 must feature a Euro 6 petrol or diesel engine, or a Euro 4 petrol-hybrid engine
  • From 1 January 2020 all new private hire vehicles - defined as those under 18 months old - licensed for the first time will have to be zero emission capable
  • Older private hire vehicles - those over 18 months old - will need to feature a Euro 6 engine when licensed for the first time between 1 January 2020 and 31 December 2022. They will also need to be zero emission capable from 2023
Click to expand...
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/p...ulez-requirements-for-taxi-and-minicab-trades
 
fabs said:
A lot of caravan holidays in London then?
Click to expand...

Not quite the point. Other cities eg Liverpool, M/chester etc will soon follow.
+ as others have mentioned, it's just another tax grabbing ploy & when diesels have eventually been phased out, it'll be petrol next, then ..........?
 
OldCarlos said:
Not quite the point. Other cities eg Liverpool, M/chester etc will soon follow.
+ as others have mentioned, it's just another tax grabbing ploy & when diesels have eventually been phased out, it'll be petrol next, then ..........?
Click to expand...

But it's exactly the point. The whole melodrama about the caravan industry going into meltdown because of charges for taking diesel cars into cities, how many people go caravaning in cities?
 
fabs said:
A lot of caravan holidays in London then?
Click to expand...
No of course they don't ,but plenty of diesel car owners and who are probably caravan owners as well ,have to use there cars to commute to work ,not everyone can afford the luxury of two cars ,and as Carlos has so rightly pointed out ,once the mention of "taxes " is brought up every cash strapped council in the country will jump on the band wagon ..
As I said previously it's a ill conceived idea that will have major impact on the whole counties jobs and finances ,because the ripple effect hasn't been properly thought out just to protect a few people in London ,most of whom probably couldn't give a flying toss anyway .
The reason London has polluted air is geological anyway it sits in a bowl at the bottom of the Thames valley once there it can't get out ,I grew up in the east end I can still remember the foggy nights and also the smogs .i'll bet there nowhere near as bad now as they were i the 50's but people can now complain easier due to the internet .
The trouble is that a ban in London impacts on the rest of the country ,the domino effect .
 
Last edited:
People were talked into diesel cars by a Labour Government 20 years ago when all the facts about pollution were known.
WHY should we pay
WE should be compensated
 
the black fox said:
oh well as usual a few" gooders " thinking we should all go back to riding bikes to work and back . a petrol car won't be much use to the millions of large caravan owners in the country ,they need a diesel for the economy and the torque ,kill the diesel engine and hundreds of jobs will start to disappear in caravan building ,caravan dealers ,repair facilities ,camp sites and the tourist industry ,it won't happen overnight but it will creep up slowly ,love to see a electric car towing a 20ft 6 berth twin wheeler ,and what about motorhomes there virtually all diesel to .
a ill thought out vote catcher by a idiotic mayor of london who hasn't taken the time to look at cause and effect ,as soon as taxation is mentioned all the f*****g grubby fingered town hall despots start rubbing there greasy little hands together .

and do what you like london i turned my back on you 50 years ago ,i'll keep my lovely comfortable and fast volvo s60 auto tdi ,2.4 litre diesel and keep giving it a good black smoke inducing blow through every morning .especially when the winds blowing south east :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:
Click to expand...
What do you think people used to tow caravans or actually powered motorhomes before diesel engines became so popular? That's right petrol. Much easier today as Turbo charged petrol engines still produce plenty of torque. Mind you think of all the reduced congestion with no caravans on the roads. Sounds like a win win situation to me.
 
fabs said:
But it's exactly the point. The whole melodrama about the caravan industry going into meltdown because of charges for taking diesel cars into cities, how many people go caravaning in cities?
Click to expand...
Pikies.
 
wave01 said:
People were talked into diesel cars by a Labour Government 20 years ago when all the facts about pollution were known.
WHY should we pay
WE should be compensated
Click to expand...
Governments around the world were pressurised to lower CO2 emissions. Diesel engines produce less CO2. People were daft enough not to think for themselves and decide whether a diesel powered car was actually right for them, just so the could save £140 / year a more on VED. You've had your compensation for being so tight in the first place.
 
wuyanxu said:
To be honest, I think people are genuinely over-buying their cars. People buy for when they *might* take a holiday driving 600 miles with luggage space, but people will drive the same car all year long, wasting fuel and road space. I drive a small-ish coupe, good aerodynamics for my motorway commute, large enough for my daily needs. Then I rent a boxy 7 seater when I need the bigger car. Same for diesels, people *think* they will get good fuel economy just by choosing diesel, but they should be factoring their daily use case. This will be the same for EV in the future, people *think* they need 400 miles car, when they do no more than 100 miles a day.
Click to expand...

To be honest I think these people are overthinking the need for a car. I ride a motorbike daily for my commute. Good mpg, less traffic congestion, less damage to the roads... ;) :D

Just need to meet Euro 3 which are bikes after 2007 according to their vehicle checker
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone
 
Last edited:
nilagin said:
Governments around the world were pressurised to lower CO2 emissions. Diesel engines produce less CO2. People were daft enough not to think for themselves and decide whether a diesel powered car was actually right for them, just so the could save £140 / year a more on VED. You've had your compensation for being so tight in the first place.
Click to expand...

I don't see it as a problem. My diesel car does twice the mpg of the petrol car it replaced, it's £30 road tax instead of £240. All it means is that the occasional twice a year I drive my father in law to London for his navy do I'll have to pay more for the trip. It still beats the £50 each they want for a train ticket for 3 stops on GWR.
 
A good question to ask, is why the construction industry have not been mentioned, Deisel generators, dump trucks, pumps, lifts, etc., nobody seems worried about them, not many are even fitted with a proper exhaust.
 
nilagin said:
What do you think people used to tow caravans or actually powered motorhomes before diesel engines became so popular? That's right petrol. Much easier today as Turbo charged petrol engines still produce plenty of torque. Mind you think of all the reduced congestion with no caravans on the roads. Sounds like a win win situation to me.
Click to expand...
The caravans and motorhomes of yesteryear were a different proposition to today's larger and heavier beasts . So to tow a modern one would require a large very Torquy petrol engine ,which somewhat negates the argument about pollution .
Most caravans these days are fitted with every conceivable home luxury ,including central heating ,large screen t.v ,shower cubicles ,and better kitchens than lots have at home .and it's not the towing capabilities on the flat that you take into account it's how well do they pull up a steep hill.
I'm one of the older generation that can remember towing a caravan with a petrol car ,worrying about every hill ,the strain on the clutch and watching the fuel gauge cope at 15mpg or less .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top