Av and Tv mode

[steve burnett]

I was on a basic traing course the other weekend. It taught me some good basics and helped fill in some blanks I had over looked.
I am using the manual setting for my pictures but was suffering from some over and under exposed pictures. The course helped to reduce, but still lots to improve on .

The guy did say some thing I was surprised at. He said when out and about he almost never shoots in full auto mode as the conditions over head change so often. He uses Av and Tv 99% of the time.
Now the course was aimed at beginers and I'm sure he dumbed down a lot but I was really suprised. I have been trying to shoot in manual mode when outside. Shooting in Av or Tv really makes it easier to capture the picture but then so does full auto, but I want to keep progressing and take the best I can at the time.

Anyway, what do you guys think of his comments??

 

[jd.smith]

I shoot in what works best in studio I'd go full manual sports tv to get the shutter speed I want portraits av to control dof don't have to do everything manual its not cheating

 

[mortimerhill]

Shooting in Av or Tv gives you more control. If you use full auto, or P, both aperture and shutter speed will change as the lighting conditions change.

For example a landscape photographer might want a small aperture, say f11, to give a large depth of field, and just accepts what ever shutter speed the light conditions then give. In that case, (s)he would use Av and f11

Similarly, a sports photographer might want a shutter speed of 1/400 sec and accept what ever aperture the conditions give, so (s)he would use Tv and 1/400 sec.

 

[DuncanDisorderly]

Slightly depends on the kit.

I use Av on my DSLRs because aperture has the least flexibility of all the parameters and needs to be kept under control.
Usually that is big aperture for portraits and concerts or best quality aperture for landscape (Tilt Shift lens, so Depth of Field not usually a problem).

However, this approach does not work on compacts (in my case that's the LX3 and X10) because in 'normal' bright light I kept exceeding max shutter speed and I have lost lots of shots due to overexposure. Hence for compacts I prefer P unless I have a specific need to take tight control.

Manual exposure....
A very good tool to learn exposure and the perfect weapon to cope with challenging light, but a real PITA in normal use.
At least 99% of my shots are Av, the rest are in manual and broadly speaking are either at a concert (very contrasty lighting) or on the tripod in the twilight hours.

 

[TCR4x4]

I use AV 90% of the time, as the aperture is the most important thing to me in my style of shooting. However if I knew I wanted to freeze motion, then I'd choose tv to make sure the effect was achieved.
If I was using external flash, I'd use manual and set the aperture I wanted and set the shutter to achieve the effect I wanted.

Basically use whatever mode suits what you are trying to achieve.
There is nothing macho in purely using manual mode.

 

[williams359]

Outside almost all of my work is in AV. I control the aperture and the camera controls the shutter which will give me the exposure i need. However by using exposure compensation i can over ride the camera and give it a little help. By this i mean, if I'm photographing to men in black clothes and I'm zoomed in tight, the camera will overexpose so i set it to -2/3 before i take the shot. Like wise if I'm shooting a bride in a white dress and again I'm zoomed in, it will under expose so i will dial in +2/3. Keep an eye on the shutter speed and if it gets to low change your iso or aperture.

 

[KIPAX]

The guy did say some thing I was surprised at. He said when out and about he almost never shoots in full auto mode as the conditions over head change so often. He uses Av and Tv 99% of the time.

Dont understand why you where suprised.. you seem to be under the impression that manual mode is best...it's not..

Also his comment that he almost never shoots in full auto is good isnt it?

I have been trying to shoot in manual mode when outside

If the light is constant such as a clear or overcast day then great.. if the light is changing then manual is a little bit silly to be honest

Anyway, what do you guys think of his comments??

Sound like common sense... I really do think you ahve the wrong impression about shooting in manual mode..

 

[weybourne]

I almost always use Av or Tv when out and about depending on whether I want to control the aperture or the shutter. I usually use evaluative metering but sometimes I point the camera for spot metering and lock the exposure before recomposing (and before the clouds recompose). Sometimes I dial in some compensation. Sometimes I go manual. Sometimes I forget to check the settings and the exposure .

 

[steve burnett]

Yeah, I was under the impression that the best results are achieved with full manual. I'm not getting great pictures and I'm not expecting too at my level.
It's more interesting that the skilled/professionals use this settings. Why, because I thought they used full auto, nothing more to it. Just my take on what I've read on here.

Every day's a school day!

 

[KIPAX]

Yeah, I was under the impression that the best results are achieved with full manual.

Manual mode cant take a picture any better than ANY other mode.. thats a fact..

If your out on a cloudy/sunny day and you setup in manual.. then a cloud goes over the sun? so you reset and the cloud leaves the sun... in manual you sometimes cant setup your camera as quick as the light changes...

For example I shoot sport and sportsman running about can be going in and out of shadows.. there is no way you could change manual settings in time to keep up with the right light

learning and using manual shows you have a good understanding of how your camera works.. but its a poor decision to use it all the time..

It's more interesting that the skilled/professionals use this settings.

a skilled/professionals will use the best settings for the shot.. if constant light indoors/outdoors then manual would be good.. if ever changing light then semi auto choosing av or tv depending on whats most impotrant speed or aperture..

Why, because I thought they used full auto, !

i really dont understand this.. you thought skilled/professionals used fully auto?

 

[SoDoSoPa]

I find shooting in AV or TV most of the time is enough for what i need to photograph, Its only when you need consistent exposure if like when doing a panorama or if you were doing a set of portraits where you need them all to be the same would you realy need to use manual. But i guess its a quickness thing, being ready, but by all means if you got the time to fiddle on manual is a great way to learn.

 

[ernesto]

Manual will most of the time just give the same setting anyway wouldn't it?

Say I want F2.8 to achieve what I am after (not using auto ISO to keep it simple)

In Aperture priority I choose 2.8 and the camera meters and selects shutter speed of 1/400
In Manual I still choose 2.8, I then check the metering and and set the shutter speed at 1/400
If it comes out under or over exposed then I apply compensation in Aperture priority and change the shutter speed in Manual (again both really having the same effect)

To me, Manual just seems a slower way of getting the same without the benefit of allowing the camera to react to any sudden light changes. Understand that in some situations I may really want to fix the Aperture and Shutter speed but they are probably the 1% of times that he is referring to.

 

[KIPAX]

To me, Manual just seems a slower way of getting the same without the benefit of allowing the camera to react to any sudden light changes. .

Manual is for when you don't want the camera to react to any sudden light changes!! its not always a benefit... Rule one... the camera isn't always right

 

[Carlh]

Thanks .

After spending 5 minutes setting up my tripod last night just after leaving work, just about to set up the camera to get the manual shot right, it poured down.

Ive been under the impression than "Manual" rules too. Now I guess, as you great people have pointed out, use what is necessary in the condition to get the pic.

I went home with 2 black images lol. Lesson Learnt !

 

[ernesto]

Manual is for when you don't want the camera to react to any sudden light changes!! its not always a benefit... Rule one... the camera isn't always right

Agree and understand but the camera is much quicker than I am at changing a setting and generally right too (when using a fixed Aperture and ISO as in the example it only has to modify the shutter speed)
Obviously if you are not in a rush then this is irrelevant...

 

[jockwav]

Out & about i find using mostly AV mode does the job for most of the time.

 

[Phil V]

Really experienced photographer rarely advise the use of any exposure mode - because it's simply not important once you understand what you're doing.

Many people believe that learning to use Manual will make them a better photographer, mostly it just makes them people who shoot manual.

Photography is about your subject and light - everything else is a means to an end.

If I shoot Manual ISO100 F2.8 1/500 and
Mike shoots AV at ISO100 and chooses F2.8 so the camera chooses 1/500 and
Anna shoots TV at ISO100 and chooses 1/500 so the camera chooses F2.8

What will be the difference between the shots? (Answer - none)

Now if Andy has judged the light and chosen to underexpose the image to create an interesting silhouette - so up's the SS to 1/2000 with all the other settings the same, he'll have a different picture - but what mode should he use? (Answer - it doesn't matter - he could have used AV, TV, P or M with a locked exposure or exp comp).

OTOH, Colin could have chosen to expose for the sky which is looking really nice, but would leave the subject under-exposed. Undeterred, he uses some Off Camera Flash to the left of and above the subject giving some nice dramatic lighting. Result - well lit portrait - nice sky - slightly underexposed close background giving nice seperation. Don't ask whether he shot Manual - it doesn't matter.

 

[steve burnett]

I get it!
Just not something I knew about.

I find it interesting because it's something I didn't know, but it make perfect sense to me.

 

[sep9001]

Really experienced photographer rarely advise the use of any exposure mode - because it's simply not important once you understand what you're doing.

Many people believe that learning to use Manual will make them a better photographer, mostly it just makes them people who shoot manual.

Photography is about your subject and light - everything else is a means to an end.

If I shoot Manual ISO100 F2.8 1/500 and
Mike shoots AV at ISO100 and chooses F2.8 so the camera chooses 1/500 and
Anna shoots TV at ISO100 and chooses 1/500 so the camera chooses F2.8

What will be the difference between the shots? (Answer - none)

Now if Andy has judged the light and chosen to underexpose the image to create an interesting silhouette - so up's the SS to 1/2000 with all the other settings the same, he'll have a different picture - but what mode should he use? (Answer - it doesn't matter - he could have used AV, TV, P or M with a locked exposure or exp comp).

OTOH, Colin could have chosen to expose for the sky which is looking really nice, but would leave the subject under-exposed. Undeterred, he uses some Off Camera Flash to the left of and above the subject giving some nice dramatic lighting. Result - well lit portrait - nice sky - slightly underexposed close background giving nice seperation. Don't ask whether he shot Manual - it doesn't matter.

Thanks

 

[Revdarny]

Av and Tv modes are fine when out and about. I find manual mode is best when you have the time to prepare your shot. Also if I were think of taking three photos at different moments for a project and I want the light to be the same, i'd use manual as Av and Tv may change the apeture on shutter speed.

 

[SoDoSoPa]

Nothing wrong with shooting in AV or TV most of the time as long as you get the photo your after and you can get creative effects from these modes.

Manual works best for when you need the exposure to be the same through out your photos, Like a portrait photo shoot or panorama. As long as you understand the relationship between shutter speed, apeture and ISO.

 

[boyfalldown]

Also if I were think of taking three photos at different moments for a project and I want the light to be the same, i'd use manual as Av and Tv may change the apeture on shutter speed.

what would you do if the light had changed for each of those 3 moments?

 

[davemk]

I get it!
Just not something I knew about.

I find it interesting because it's something I didn't know, but it make perfect sense to me.

Thanks for starting this thread, Steve; it's been an eye-opener.

I too assumed that shooting in manual would result in better pics, or at least that more experienced photographers would shoot manual so I'm quite surprised (pleasantly) to hear that they're using TV and AV modes.

 

[wibbly]

Thanks for starting this thread, Steve; it's been an eye-opener.

I too assumed that shooting in manual would result in better pics, or at least that more experienced photographers would shoot manual so I'm quite surprised (pleasantly) to hear that they're using TV and AV modes.

Same for me. I've started to shoot more in manual mode recently which has kind of opened my eyes. Now I've started using Av and Tv mode which are proving particularly interesting, particularly as I'm using prime lenses.

 

[shaylou]

Manual mode cant take a picture any better than ANY other mode.. thats a fact..

If your out on a cloudy/sunny day and you setup in manual.. then a cloud goes over the sun? so you reset and the cloud leaves the sun... in manual you sometimes cant setup your camera as quick as the light changes...

For example I shoot sport and sportsman running about can be going in and out of shadows.. there is no way you could change manual settings in time to keep up with the right light

learning and using manual shows you have a good understanding of how your camera works.. but its a poor decision to use it all the time..

a skilled/professionals will use the best settings for the shot.. if constant light indoors/outdoors then manual would be good.. if ever changing light then semi auto choosing av or tv depending on whats most impotrant speed or aperture..

i really dont understand this.. you thought skilled/professionals used fully auto?

This is probably (imo) the most accurate way of putting it.

I use manual mode when ever I can because it gives full control to the photographer. But, there are many times that there just is not enough time to set the exposure so I turn to a priority mode. For example, I was shooting a skateboarder in a skate park, as he went flying through the pool the shadows came in and out as I followed him. The priority for me was to stop the motion and there was not enough time to make adjustments. Shutter priority to the rescue....

Also you can use the priority modes to help understand proper exposure. When you in manual mode and you get stuck not knowing how to set your camera. simply turn to a priority mode take a shot and look at the settings. This will give you a baseline to start with and you can choose how to put your personal touch to the exposure. I hope this helps.

 

[steve40]

I always use the mode that works best for the conditions, and the way I want to portray them. Sometimes! that may even include full auto. There is no way of saying, that any mode is best all of the time.

 

[Russ77]

I always use the mode that works best for the conditions, and the way I want to portray them. Sometimes! that may even include full auto. There is no way of saying, that any mode is best all of the time.

Cracking first post there Steve!!!

I was at a local Zoo on Sunday and used Av, Tv & Manual over the course of around 200 shots.

The light was very variable when outside, from completely grey-blanket cloud to brilliant sunshine and blue sky within the space of a minute or two.

The Falconry display was the most challenging especially as the birds were flying past trees and then up into the sky. Had the camera on Av first but it wasn't that effective so I set the ISO to 200, Tv and 1/800 (I think) leaving the aperture to try and get the exposure right.

Worked pretty well but panning was a problem as I had my wife and Dad either side of me was nearly knocking them out with the lens

I think the main thing to learn is whatever mode you're using, if the images aren't right or what you're expecting learn very quickly what went wrong and then choose the right mode/settings to get what you want.

There is no magic formula for any given situation, being able to adapt on the fly is the key

Using Auto/P shouldn't be seen as cheating/failing, especially if it gets you a shot that you'd have otherwise missed/screwed up!

 

[Revdarny]

what would you do if the light had changed for each of those 3 moments?

If the light had changed naturally then I don't think there's much I could do. My post production skills are next to zero. Maybe i should of explained myself better. Hotshots has the same point.

It doesn't matter though as long as you get the shot your after. In an ideal world you'd always use manual as it give's you full control. But when there are those moments when you don't have time, Av and Tv priority modes are very useful.

 

[ernesto]

The only important thing is the end product - the photograph. When someone is looking at/appreciating a photo they couldn't care less what mode the camera was in...

 

[crazypete00]

i tend to use AV and TV mostly but i am a beginner and still getting to grips with the camera and settings. I like to mainly use AV out of the 2 as i like to be in control of the aperture.

use TV when taking pictures of moving water to get that blurry silky water effect.

 

[Phil V]

If the light had changed naturally then I don't think there's much I could do. My post production skills are next to zero. Maybe i should of explained myself better. Hotshots has the same point.

It doesn't matter though as long as you get the shot your after. In an ideal world you'd always use manual as it give's you full control. But when there are those moments when you don't have time, Av and Tv priority modes are very useful.

Please re-read this thread. This is the single biggest misunderstanding in Photography:bonk:.

In an ideal world, you would always use the mode you wanted to, and achieve the results you expected.

As I think someone said earlier - learning to shoot Manual won't make you a better photographer - it'll make you a photographer that can shoot Manual. There's nothing wrong in that - but nor is it an answer to all of lives problems.

Not to mention that you missed HUgh's point by a mile - which is that just leaving the settings the same doesn't guarantee the same results if the light changes - your PP skills arent an answer - your ability to read the conditions is.

 

[Invicta]

Really good thread and being relatively new to it all this has really helped me in understanding a few things.

 

[steve40]

use TV when taking pictures of moving water to get that blurry silky water effect.

Here I will use manual; a resolution friendly F-stop, something like F-4 with my little Canon G12. A 6 stop ND filter, and the appropriate shutter speed for the conditions; to get a proper exposure. Water falls; can be some of the most challenging of subjects, trying to get the right exposure on. All of the current shots on my web-site, were taken with a variety of P&S cameras; and will attest to this fact.

Sadly I will probably never be able to replace all of them, my back went out of sorts a few years ago, and now limits my mobility severely.

So in that respect - you can expect more comments from me, than images.

 

[Revdarny]

Please re-read this thread. This is the single biggest misunderstanding in Photography:bonk:.

In an ideal world, you would always use the mode you wanted to, and achieve the results you expected.

As I think someone said earlier - learning to shoot Manual won't make you a better photographer - it'll make you a photographer that can shoot Manual. There's nothing wrong in that - but nor is it an answer to all of lives problems.

Not to mention that you missed HUgh's point by a mile - which is that just leaving the settings the same doesn't guarantee the same results if the light changes - your PP skills arent an answer - your ability to read the conditions is.

Oh i see, what you mean maybe I missed Hughs point there or I didn't come up with answer you wanted.

If i'm wrong about something, please bring it to my attention, it's always good to know these things. But being rude is not the way to go about it. :nono:

 

[Bambi72]

Another option when using AV or TV mode and the images not coming out exactly as you want is to dial in some exposure compensation to under or over expose the image. Your metering mode will also affect how an image comes out too, forgetting you left the camera set to spot metering is one of my classic mistakes.

 

[Phil V]

Sorry you saw that as rude, in my head it sounded helpful.:shrug: The point of the thread (as I read it) is that there's no RIGHT answer, it's down to personal choice.

I do my best at trying to teach less experienced photographers not to listen to the zealots who claim one camera mode is the right one, as it's often done at the expense of a real understanding of the important stuff. I suppose I could've kept out of it and left you with your misunderstandings.

 

[Revdarny]

Sorry you saw that as rude, in my head it sounded helpful.:shrug: The point of the thread (as I read it) is that there's no RIGHT answer, it's down to personal choice.

I do my best at trying to teach less experienced photographers not to listen to the zealots who claim one camera mode is the right one, as it's often done at the expense of a real understanding of the important stuff. I suppose I could've kept out of it and left you with your misunderstandings.

I see what you mean, thanks for the advice Phil I appreciate it. I guess it's easy to get bogged down with all the settings and miss the opportunity to take the shot in the first place.

I'm going to take photos of the toys i've thrown out of my pram now.

 

[Phil V]

I see what you mean, thanks for the advice Phil I appreciate it. I guess it's easy to get bogged down with all the settings and miss the opportunity to take the shot in the first place.

I'm going to take photos of the toys i've thrown out of my pram now.

Off camera flash - for some modelling.

 

[DannyT]

Really interesting thread here guys. I have been using Manual for over a year now, as thats what I was taught. For some reason i always thought it was "frowned upon" to use anythign other. It seems I was very wrong. What it has given me though is a good understanding of how my camera works and the relationship between ISO, APerture and Shutter Speed.

So my question would be which would be the best mode for a nightclub shoot? Aperture or Shutter speed priority?

 

[gad-westy]

Really interesting thread here guys. I have been using Manual for over a year now, as thats what I was taught. For some reason i always thought it was "frowned upon" to use anythign other. It seems I was very wrong. What it has given me though is a good understanding of how my camera works and the relationship between ISO, APerture and Shutter Speed.

So my question would be which would be the best mode for a nightclub shoot? Aperture or Shutter speed priority?

Funnily enough a night club is perhaps one example where manual might work best as the meter could be all over the place with the club lighting so you might want to take control of the situation.

I'm by no means an expert at this but I'd probably be tempted to set up a manual exposure for the ambient light which will likely be fairly long, say 1/4 sec or something at a wideish aperture then fire off a flash (adjust flash level manually as well) either front or rear curtain to sort out the subject/foreground lighting. A bit of trial and error but you probably wouldn't need to adjust your settings much for the rest of the night.

That's just my approach though, the key message from this thread is to do what works for you.

Somebody on TP wrote a really good guide for nightclub shooting, it's probably in the tutorials section.