Average Speed Cameras

jakeblu

jakeblu

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So, do they actually work then? Driving back up the M1 yesterday I passed through the usual proliferation of average speed cameras where they're doing the smart motorway. Despite a steady 55mph I was still passed by a large number of cars, some going significantly faster than me. Are they due a nasty surprise through their letterbox this week or do they know something I don't?
 
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I have often wondered the same, as I have traversed half the M25 with the 50MPH signs on the gantries, and watched scores of other people clearly doing 70MPH plus in the middle and outside lanes - I just assume that they ignore the letters, have very deep pockets, or farm out the points to members of their family (I have come across that one before, and was not impressed).
 
You may have answered your own questions .... If you averaged within the prescribed maximum speed (+ a % for innacuracies of speedo unlike calibrated police vehicle speedometers) and you do not get a speeding ticker then the average speed control system works. It is also easy to test whether you will get fined.... drive at a constant (say) 62mph in a 50mph monitored zone.... your conundrum will be solved.

I know of people getting fines and points from Average Speed Cameras covering the road works on the long realignment and improvement to the M4/M5 interchange a couple of years ago.... they worked as expected....
 
The average speed cameras work where the M25 becomes the bridge spanning the Thames from Essex to Kent. A workmate fell foul of them and earned himself a speed awareness course, all the people on the same course had also been caught at the same place.
 
My colleague earned his ban in a single journey courtesy of the average speed cameras on the M25 north when those were in place a couple of years ago.
Already had three unspent points, and earned nine more on that drive.
He challenged all three penalties. He failed.
We still refer to it as his idiot tax.
 
I've only read of one case of someone getting pulled up on these, so it's good to read of more cases. I see they have the permanent fixed ones on the A12 now between Colchester and Ipswich ... you can barely see them when you're tonneing passed them!
 
Hugh Jarse said:
You may have answered your own questions .... If you averaged within the prescribed maximum speed (+ a % for innacuracies of speedo unlike calibrated police vehicle speedometers) and you do not get a speeding ticker then the average speed control system works. It is also easy to test whether you will get fined.... drive at a constant (say) 62mph in a 50mph monitored zone.... your conundrum will be solved.

I know of people getting fines and points from Average Speed Cameras covering the road works on the long realignment and improvement to the M4/M5 interchange a couple of years ago.... they worked as expected....
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Fair enough, but if I'm traveling along at a steady 55 or thereabouts than those driving faster than me must surely be pushing their luck. I'm already at the boundaries of what is permissible.
 
jakeblu said:
Fair enough, but if I'm traveling along at a steady 55 or thereabouts than those driving faster than me must surely be pushing their luck. I'm already at the boundaries of what is permissible.
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Why worry what others may or may not be doing? I have been driving for over 42 years - clean licence, never had even so much as a parking ticket. Have I broken the speed limit...... of course I have.

Your supposition is that others 'must' be 'pushing their luck' is not really your problem. Look after what you do and ignore others. The number of ASC in use in the UK is still tiny in the overal miles of road available. Their impact will grow no doubt, but when all is said and done, your own access to drive has it's limitations and it's pretty dramatic to lose that privelige and, for what?

Years ago the Met Police driving school had notices that just showed OFD - it stood for "Other F^^^ing Driver" - in other words - no matter how good you are, or think you are, you never know what is going on with the OFD....
 
jakeblu said:
Fair enough, but if I'm traveling along at a steady 55 or thereabouts than those driving faster than me must surely be pushing their luck. I'm already at the boundaries of what is permissible.
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Your choice and to date you have got away with it but 55mph is not 'permissable' on a 50mph road.
People often talk about a 10% margin to allow for inaccuracy of a car speedo but that 'allowance' is discretionary.....car owners are responsible for having an accurate speedo.

The reality seems to be that sometimes the average speed cameras are on and sometimes they are not. People sometimes claim these things are just to raise revenue but it seems to me that if they were rigidly enforced the police and courts would drown after a day.
 
The cameras on the A9 work, I know a chap who got caught by them. As Steve says though, worry about yourself and let the ofd deal with the cameras.
 
jakeblu said:
So, do they actually work then? Driving back up the M1 yesterday I passed through the usual proliferation of average speed cameras where they're doing the smart motorway. Despite a steady 55mph I was still passed by a large number of cars, some going significantly faster than me. Are they due a nasty surprise through their letterbox this week or do they know something I don't?

Edit : Actually this should probably be in the oof section sorry, perhaps a mod will move it?
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Often been thinking the same - cars seem to go past me, not just by a few mph but a fair bit more.
 
Do they work, oh yes. Some clever technology in them that read the numberplates, record the data and transmit it back to database servers. The cameras themselves are just data recorders and used local storage and phone sim cards to transmit the data back. From the database servers, the data is analysed and tickets generated. Most of the servers are within the relevant police forces datacentre building for the permanently sited cameras. Some temporary roadwork ones have the data sent back to the manufacturers data centre and the data then access from there for analysis.

Clever IR transmitters and cameras means they can be read in any time and weather and some clever tech means they can also read 'obscured' plates.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...month-on-11mile-stretch-of-road-a3162776.html

Also some cameras are specs, some newer ones are vectors
 
Since I attended a speed awareness course to avoid points I have actually stopped speeding. Average speed cameras are not a bother as I always use cruise control anyway. If the speed limit is 50, cruise control is set to 50. Job done.
 
I just assume they are allways on and set my cruise to 54 which my sat nav says is 53 happy days.

I am under the impression they trigger at 58+ which is reasonable I think.
 
viv1969 said:
My colleague earned his ban in a single journey courtesy of the average speed cameras on the M25 north when those were in place a couple of years ago.
Already had three unspent points, and earned nine more on that drive.
He challenged all three penalties. He failed.
We still refer to it as his idiot tax.
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That is ridiculous

You can speed once and be found guilty of the same offence a number of times. If you burgle a house for 5 mins or 3 hours its still one account of Burglary
 
morfis said:
Your choice and to date you have got away with it but 55mph is not 'permissable' on a 50mph road.
People often talk about a 10% margin to allow for inaccuracy of a car speedo but that 'allowance' is discretionary.....car owners are responsible for having an accurate speedo.
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A car owner has no control over the accuracy of their speedo. The accuracy can change due to amount of tread on the tyres, tyre pressures, the change in rolling circumference as a result of fitting larger wheels and lower profile tyres. None of that can be accurate enough to ensure the accuracy of a speedo, hence why there has to be an allowance.
 
Byker28i said:
Do they work, oh yes. Some clever technology in them that read the numberplates, record the data and transmit it back to database servers. The cameras themselves are just data recorders and used local storage and phone sim cards to transmit the data back. From the database servers, the data is analysed and tickets generated. Most of the servers are within the relevant police forces datacentre building for the permanently sited cameras. Some temporary roadwork ones have the data sent back to the manufacturers data centre and the data then access from there for analysis.

Clever IR transmitters and cameras means they can be read in any time and weather and some clever tech means they can also read 'obscured' plates.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...month-on-11mile-stretch-of-road-a3162776.html

Also some cameras are specs, some newer ones are vectors
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No, I don't mean I was uncertain of how they work, I'm just curious how, when I drive at an average speed of around 55mph, I am frequently being passed by other drivers, some going significantly faster.
 
andyscott said:
That is ridiculous

You can speed once and be found guilty of the same offence a number of times. If you burgle a house for 5 mins or 3 hours its still one account of Burglary
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Not ridiculous at all.
If you burgle three houses in the same street within minutes, or the SAME house three times in a day, (for instance) it's three burglary offences.
He was a pillock, he drove too fast, and he got caught by three separate sets of cameras, therefore he was issued with 3 NIPs and under the totting up of points system, lost his licence.
Now he rides a pushbike.
 
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Hugh Jarse said:
Why worry what others may or may not be doing? I have been driving for over 42 years - clean licence, never had even so much as a parking ticket. Have I broken the speed limit...... of course I have.

Your supposition is that others 'must' be 'pushing their luck' is not really your problem. Look after what you do and ignore others. The number of ASC in use in the UK is still tiny in the overal miles of road available. Their impact will grow no doubt, but when all is said and done, your own access to drive has it's limitations and it's pretty dramatic to lose that privelige and, for what?

Years ago the Met Police driving school had notices that just showed OFD - it stood for "Other F^^^ing Driver" - in other words - no matter how good you are, or think you are, you never know what is going on with the OFD....
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Did I say it was a problem, I was just curious. Jeez its getting difficult to start a topic of conversation on here without someone giving you a lecture. I repeat its not a problem, I don't have a problem with speed cameras, I was just curious if, as it seems to me, some blatantly flaunt the cameras.
 
nilagin said:
A car owner has no control over the accuracy of their speedo. The accuracy can change due to amount of tread on the tyres, tyre pressures, the change in rolling circumference as a result of fitting larger wheels and lower profile tyres. None of that can be accurate enough to ensure the accuracy of a speedo, hence why there has to be an allowance.
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None of this changes the fact that it is the drivers responsibility to ensure they are driving at or below the signed maximum speed. I accept that saying they are responsible for the accuracy of their speedo was misleading in this context (though it also remains true).
 
viv1969 said:
Not ridiculous at all.
If you burgle three houses in the same street within minutes, or the SAME house three times in a day, (for instance) it's three burglary offences.
He was a pillock, he drove too fast, and he got caught by three separate sets of cameras, therefore he was issued with 3 NIPs and under the totting up of points system, lost his licence.
Now he rides a pushbike.
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Not at all, you can continue at a set speed, hit three cameras and three offences, when you have been speeding once.

If its three, say on three very different roads, fair enough, but gantry cameras, set three in a row, speeding once, three tickets.

Police follow you for 2 miles speeding, one ticket.

Three houses, is not the same, if you went past the same camera three times, fair enough.
 
andyscott said:
Not at all, you can continue at a set speed, hit three cameras and three offences, when you have been speeding once.

If its three, say on three very different roads, fair enough, but gantry cameras, set three in a row, speeding once, three tickets.

Police follow you for 2 miles speeding, one ticket.

Three houses, is not the same, if you went past the same camera three times, fair enough.
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Well let’s put it this way, he challenged it in court, made a big deal out of it, in the manner you’re suggesting, and failed dismally.

I have no sympathy for him at all.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to drive within the law.
 
jakeblu said:
Did I say it was a problem, I was just curious. Jeez its getting difficult to start a topic of conversation on here without someone giving you a lecture. I repeat its not a problem, I don't have a problem with speed cameras, I was just curious if, as it seems to me, some blatantly flaunt the cameras.
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I liked your post so thumbs up... I also liked that you went into misery mode too as it exemplifies the 'modern' way of doing things.... moan, grizzle, upset

So to balance things

Your original post was a fantastic post, succinct, to the point, erudite and most importantly one that was lacking in allowing me to move on happy in the knowledge that I live with purpose.... I thank you from the bottom of my heart and appreciate the chastening I so well deserved.
 
I was once told that all speeding offences flagged by the camera have to be confirmed by a human eye-ball looking at the picture and the data before the notice is sent out. If this is the case then I wouldn't be surprised if they sometimes get more offences flagged than they can process, so I imagine you could get lucky and not get a ticket on a busy day.
 
I liked your post too, even though you were a sanctimonious know it all and taking the p1$$. There we're all square ;)
 
I don't think I've ever heard of a speedo that reads slow, in my experience if they're no accurate then they tell you you're going faster then you are, this is intentional I suspect as manufacturers don't want to get sued every time someone gets done for speeding.

I'm not keen on the cruise control in my car though if it was all i had I'd use it, cc is only good on long stretches of open road which few of us get to see these days. My car also has a variable speed limiter which is far more useful, I can set it at 60 for the A9 and drive as I normally would, it just won't let me go too fast.

My van is a different story, no limiting devices, speedo that's a good 10% (tells me I'm doing 55 when I'm doing 50) out and restricted to 50mph on normal roads, 60mph on dual carriageways. I bought a gps HUD speedo for it which has turned out to be a license saver as well as possibly accident avoider since I don't have to look down to check my speed now.
 
do the average cameras work from camera to camera, or from the first to the last camera in a run? ie can I do 40 for the first bit then at the end accelerate to 70mph? Always unsure of that!
 
jakeblu said:
I liked your post too, even though you were a sanctimonious know it all and taking the p1$$. There we're all square ;)
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Extracting the urine - moi? Pretentious? Mais oui! Still let's not let that spoil a lifetime of friendship.... perhaps. [emoji6]

My feet are up and I am enjoying a view of the Atlantic from my wagon that I don't think I have taken over 40mph (64.373kph). My days on the rat race treadmill are gone....

And a heartfelt "Let's be careful out there" to one and all....
 
darkeeboy said:
do the average cameras work from camera to camera, or from the first to the last camera in a run? ie can I do 40 for the first bit then at the end accelerate to 70mph? Always unsure of that!
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No. It’s an average speed of 50mph between cameras one and 2, then an average of 50mph between cameras 2 and 3, and so on and so forth…NOT an average of 50mph between camera 1 and 15 (or however many there are).

Each section you are logged as exceeding that average is a separate speeding offence.

So if you think you’ve been clocked once, it’s no good thinking “Oh sod it, might as well…” and putting your foot down.
 
Hugh Jarse said:
Extracting the urine - moi? Pretentious? Mais oui! Still let's not let that spoil a lifetime of friendship.... perhaps. [emoji6]

My feet are up and I am enjoying a view of the Atlantic from my wagon that I don't think I have taken over 40mph (64.373kph). My days on the rat race treadmill are gone....

And a heartfelt "Let's be careful out there" to one and all....
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Point taken, have a good day :)
 
I take it on the face value that they work, besides, you might speed up to 70 but no doubt 30 seconds down the road someone will be sticking to 50 anyway.
 
I'm a fan of them for smooth cruise control driving. Makes the whole section relaxing and fuel efficient. :D

I'm not a fan of other drivers who don't use cruise control and drive in between 45 - 55 in the average camera sections. Use that asset in your car!

Don't confuse average speed camera with motorway gantry signs and cameras. The gantries are normal flash cameras. People speeding are gambling thinking they know which gantry has the camera. Only the yellow painted smaller CCTV-like cameras are average speed cameras.
 
jakeblu said:
Despite a steady 55mph I was still passed by a large number of cars, some going significantly faster than me. Are they due a nasty surprise through their letterbox this week or do they know something I don't?
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It used to be that you could change lanes, between camera's and the technology wasn't smart enough or indeed certified to catch speeders doing this.
I think it was about a year ago, when the camera's were deemed "safe" to catch drivers between different lanes.
Maybe they haven't heard that this is now the case? and are in for a surprise?

I am also led to believe ( from an ex copper) that they are set at +10% +2 mph, so you would have to do 69+ in a controlled 60 limit, to actually get caught.
However I'm not stupid enough to test that "theory"
 
There is another good reason why some drivers go through average speed sections at 70 to 80 mph, they are driving on false plates, which is far more common than most people think.

In 2011 when I was helping the local surveyor in Livingston carry out electrical inspections in West Lothian schools, another surveyor who was also helping and who lived locally to him, brought in a letter he had received from one of the councils in London. It said that he had been caught on a speed camera, in Tottenham I think, doing about 60 mph in a 30 mph speed limit.

The photograph which was enclosed had a photograph of a Vauxhall Insignia which was exactly the same model, colour and, of course, registration as his car. The only problem being that his car was in his garage and he had been with his wife at a social function in Edinburgh at the time of the offence.
 
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Cobra said:
I am also led to believe ( from an ex copper) that they are set at +10% +2 mph, so you would have to do 69+ in a controlled 60 limit, to actually get caught.
However I'm not stupid enough to test that "theory"
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The chap I know who got caught on the A9 was according to the letter doing 52mph, different areas may do things differently but as you say it's not worth testing them out.
 
Steep said:
The chap I know who got caught on the A9 was according to the letter doing 52mph, different areas may do things differently but as you say it's not worth testing them out.
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Bugger :( that's no margin for error at all is it?
The Bedfordshire Police, issued a statement recently that due to being short of funds ( yes really) the over head gantry camera's, on the M1,
will be set to zero tolerance I'm not sure that they have implemented that as yet though.

( It should be a hell of a Christmas party if they do though :D )
 
A lot of false plates out there now.
apparently that's how so many uninsured drivers are on the roads and not getting caught.
just cloning plates. you can order them off ebay.
 
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