Average Speed Cameras

Gremlin said:
Surely "average speed" means just that, between all sets of cameras?
You can't have an average between 1 set unless it's for everytime you go thriugh that set.
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Why can't you? Enter a set at 90, exit at 60 ... are you saying there is not an average speed in there? Lots of roadworks have a single set.
 
Gremlin said:
Surely "average speed" means just that, between all sets of cameras?
You can't have an average between 1 set unless it's for everytime you go thriugh that set.
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The "average speed" is a calculated speed between any 2 points rather than a spot check at each point.

Before people would do 90 between cameras then slow down to 50, then speed back up again.
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
Before people would do 90 between cameras then slow down to 50, then speed back up again.
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Doing that have more potential to cause accidents! If not accidents, tail backs due to excessive braking on the motorway.

Average speed camera solves this, people would stick to the speed limits. Less fuel burnt by those asshats and better all round.
 
wuyanxu said:
Average speed camera solves this, people would stick to the speed limits.
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Unfortunately not everyone understands the concept of "average", I still see heavy braking at the camera locations.
Agreed not as much as I used too, but I still see it.

Byker28i said:
across two lanes
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Only 2?
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
The "average speed" is a calculated speed between any 2 points rather than a spot check at each point.

Before people would do 90 between cameras then slow down to 50, then speed back up again.
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Thanks, things have changed, I see it can now be 2 cameras 99 miles apart, we don't really stand a chance as motorists do we
except sticking to the limits :(
 
They are designed for crime prevention, but they don't prevent you speeding, revenue gatherers thats all.

Is there any main roads left without a 50 limit and average speed cameras.

stop wagons overtaking that will stop traffic queues.
 
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Cobra said:
Only 2?
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yes at the moment, the old ones used to cover each lane, but the modern ones cover two. On a dual carriage way this is fine, so a single camera can cover both lanes. On a single carriageway they can cover both directions.

On motorways etc, they cover two lanes, but generally overlap, so they'll be a camera on each lane, but recording traffic in two, because of the volume of traffic, Cant be missing that valuable income, sorry enforcement for safety reasons
 
Byker28i said:
so they'll be a camera on each lane, but recording traffic in two
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Wouldn't it be nice if they told us which lane wasn't covered ? :D


But I assume you mean that that one camera can cover two lanes at at time.
Not that only two lanes are covered.
 
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Gremlin said:
Surely "average speed" means just that, between all sets of cameras?
You can't have an average between 1 set unless it's for everytime you go thriugh that set.
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Sure you can.
You can exceed the average limit between cameras 1 & 2, then drive fine between cameras 2 & 3, 3 & 4, then get caught again between 4 & 5 etc etc.
2 separate infringements, 2 separate fines (as ably demonstrated by "Speedy Simon" in accounts :LOL: but in his case it was 3)
 
viv1969 said:
Sure you can.
You can exceed the average limit between cameras 1 & 2, then drive fine between cameras 2 & 3, 3 & 4, then get caught again between 4 & 5 etc etc.
2 separate infringements, 2 separate fines (as ably demonstrated by "Speedy Simon" in accounts :LOL: but in his case it was 3)
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as already explained
Average Speed Cameras
 
From this website

http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/specs.htm

Question: Just a quick question regarding specs camera. Today I passed 7 SPECS cameras, if my average speed was above the speed limit shown past each camera would I get a ticket for every camera apart from the first camera? Meaning I could potentially get a £600 fine and loss of licence (18 points) over a 4 mile stretch.

Answer: SPECS average speed cameras are not normally paired between each and every camera. Average cameras are often paired between say the second and last camera in the sequence. Of course the actual pairings will ONLY be known by the camera operator and/or Police authority. I certainly would be very surprised to hear that you or any motorist was prosecuted multiple times at a single SPECS average speed check zone. If however the average speed check zone ends and then starts again within the 4 mile stretch and thus becoming a new SPECS speed check, then in this instance you may be prosecuted more than once.
 
jakeblu said:
From this website

http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/specs.htm

Question: Just a quick question regarding specs camera. Today I passed 7 SPECS cameras, if my average speed was above the speed limit shown past each camera would I get a ticket for every camera apart from the first camera? Meaning I could potentially get a £600 fine and loss of licence (18 points) over a 4 mile stretch.

Answer: SPECS average speed cameras are not normally paired between each and every camera. Average cameras are often paired between say the second and last camera in the sequence. Of course the actual pairings will ONLY be known by the camera operator and/or Police authority. I certainly would be very surprised to hear that you or any motorist was prosecuted multiple times at a single SPECS average speed check zone. If however the average speed check zone ends and then starts again within the 4 mile stretch and thus becoming a new SPECS speed check, then in this instance you may be prosecuted more than once.
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Ta :)
 
Gremlin said:
see it can now be 2 cameras 99 miles apart....
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Well yes, in theory they could post one camera at the start of the M40 and another at the end of the M40, but how many people travel the whole length? And how many people travel the whole length at an average speed exceeding the limits? Very few. Far more practical to have the cameras closer together, I would suggest.

Gremlin said:
... we don't really stand a chance as motorists do we
except sticking to the limits :(
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We really don't stand a chance of... what?
 
I did wonder if there is a maximum distance allowed between them; besides the junctions, it is also easy to hide alongside tall trucks to avoid the cameras, so the 99 miles idea is really silly.
 
jakeblu said:
So, do they actually work then? Driving back up the M1 yesterday I passed through the usual proliferation of average speed cameras where they're doing the smart motorway. Despite a steady 55mph I was still passed by a large number of cars, some going significantly faster than me. Are they due a nasty surprise through their letterbox this week or do they know something I don't?
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Old habits dies hard.

There is a big different between one of those "average speed camera" and one of those general typical speed camera you see in town/city centre.

Typical speed camera: They drive too fast towards the camera, like driving at 50mph in a 30mph zone. When they see the camera and the white lines marked on the road, they tend to brake hard to get rid of the speed, and try to slow down to the maximum speed limit before the start of the first line. The point is if they are driving at right speed, the camera do not take a photo. If they are driving too fast, the camera do take two photos. One photo will show the car at Point A, the next photo will show the car at Point B. The police knows how far is it from Point A to Point B, and the photos will have a time stamp marked on them. They do the maths based on how far and how long from A to B to get the answer which is how fast.

The problem is that after they drive out of the camera's view point, they can speed up and drive at 50mph in a 30mph.

Average speed camera: The first camera (Point A) takes a photo of your car no matter what speed you are driving. Even if you are driving at 47mph in a 50mph zone, the camera still takes a photo of your car's number, record it in a database with a time stamp attached to it.

BUT here's the catch: You do not know which of the other cameras will take the second photo of your car and stamp it with a time stamp. It may be the next camera, it may be the last camera, it may be any one of the cameras in between. Any of those cameras can be set to Point B.

The records knows how far it is between Point A to Point B, and the computer will work out how fast the car went from A to B based on the time stamps. Say in theory: You drove at 47mph when you went under the first camera, then your speed went up to 52mph, you ease off the gas and bring it down to 49mph, one little sneeze cause you to accidently push the gas petal a little more, your speed go up to 51mph, you ease off bring it down to 48mph. We're humans not machines, we can't lock our feet to keep our cars at a 50mph speed all the way. Our speed could go like 49, 48, 49, 50, 51, 50, 51, 52, 51, 50, 49, 48. After the second camera took your number, the computer will do the maths and worked it out that your average speed could have been 49mph between A to B.

Now here's what I meant by Old habits dies hard:

Those drivers may think they can drive at something like 90mph towards one of those average speed cameras, slow down to 50mph, after going past it, speeds up to 90mph, slow down for next camera, speed up, slow down, like they used to do in town/city centres when they see those speed cameras. But they are unaware that one camera records the car's number and start a stopwatch timer, the other camera (not always the next camera, it can be any of one of the next few cameras) will record the number and then stop the timer. The computer will do the maths based on how far is it from A to B and how long it took to get there. Assuming driver went like 50, 95, 50, 110, 50, 95, 50, and surprise! The average speed could be like say 71.4mph.

Why should you care if they know something you don't? Now that I've given you an example of how it works, you should be laughing at them, as they get that nasty surprise through their letterboxes, and they are the ones now asking Do jakeblu knows something I don't know? :)
 
StewartR said:
Well yes, in theory they could post one camera at the start of the M40 and another at the end of the M40, but how many people travel the whole length? And how many people travel the whole length at an average speed exceeding the limits? Very few. Far more practical to have the cameras closer together, I would suggest.
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I noticed that they're usually often used where there is road works (like on the M5). Of course, you could have that system for normal use rather than cover the length of the road works, but nobody in their right mind would place one at the start of a motorway, and place the other camera at the end of the motorway. They would pick the most likely spots where cars have been speeding, same as they would put a speed camera in a city centre where they know drivers often speeded.




nickEnackEnoo said:
I did wonder if there is a maximum distance allowed between them; besides the junctions, it is also easy to hide alongside tall trucks to avoid the cameras, so the 99 miles idea is really silly.
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Image: Camera A, Camera B, Junction 1, Camera C, Camera D, Junction 2, Camera E. And the motorway is a typical three lane motorway.

You can set any of those cameras to be the camera that starts a stopwatch on you, and any of those cameras to stop the timer. In theory, you could set A and B to clock cars in the outside lane, C and D for the inside lane, or even set A and D for middle lane to catch drivers who started at A, and thinks they can get off at J2 before E.

Even if you drive alongside tall trucks to avoid the cameras, what's the point? Supposing the truck driver is driving at 50mph in a 50mph and you want to drive next to it to avoid the camera, you would actually be driving at 50mph just to stay hidden from the camera. Plus trucks will leave the junction or will slow down too much (traffic in front of it forced it to lose too much speed), but you can't slow down to stay hidden because you got traffic behind you.

There is always a chance that Camera B started a timer on you, truck joins at J1, you hide beside the truck to avoid cameras C and D, truck leaves at J2, then it is camera E that stopped the timer on you, and computer do the maths.
 
wuyanxu said:
I'm a fan of them for smooth cruise control driving. Makes the whole section relaxing and fuel efficient. :D

I'm not a fan of other drivers who don't use cruise control and drive in between 45 - 55 in the average camera sections. Use that asset in your car!

Don't confuse average speed camera with motorway gantry signs and cameras. The gantries are normal flash cameras. People speeding are gambling thinking they know which gantry has the camera. Only the yellow painted smaller CCTV-like cameras are average speed cameras.
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You could always get a better cruise control, one that is adaptive to the other drives. It works great (y)

Mr Bump said:
A lot of false plates out there now.
apparently that's how so many uninsured drivers are on the roads and not getting caught.
just cloning plates. you can order them off ebay.
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I still don't get how they get away with being caught. Have a vehicle that is not SORN, it must be insured and taxed. Just issue automatic penalty notices to the registered owner and get them.

Byker28i said:
I can only tell you how they work, as we work with the company that designs, builds, delivers and installs the systems. The data is just put into a database, the cameras can read the plates in all weathers, times of day, across two lanes at incredible speeds. The servers that run the calculations aren't actually excessively big and fast (and hence expensive) but they use multiple ones and don't forget have two weeks to notify the speeder.
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And I could tell what is done with that data, and breaking the speed limit is the least of anyone's concern.
 
Major Eazy said:
Image: Camera A, Camera B, Junction 1, Camera C, Camera D, Junction 2, Camera E. And the motorway is a typical three lane motorway.

You can set any of those cameras to be the camera that starts a stopwatch on you, and any of those cameras to stop the timer. In theory, you could set A and B to clock cars in the outside lane, C and D for the inside lane, or even set A and D for middle lane to catch drivers who started at A, and thinks they can get off at J2 before E.

Even if you drive alongside tall trucks to avoid the cameras, what's the point? Supposing the truck driver is driving at 50mph in a 50mph and you want to drive next to it to avoid the camera, you would actually be driving at 50mph just to stay hidden from the camera. Plus trucks will leave the junction or will slow down too much (traffic in front of it forced it to lose too much speed), but you can't slow down to stay hidden because you got traffic behind you.

There is always a chance that Camera B started a timer on you, truck joins at J1, you hide beside the truck to avoid cameras C and D, truck leaves at J2, then it is camera E that stopped the timer on you, and computer do the maths.
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Sorry, I was just referring to Gremlin's simple set up of 2 cameras 99 miles apart :)
 
It's anecdotal but since the rise of SPECS it feels like traffic jams in motorway roadworks have become a much rarer thing.
 
wuyanxu said:
You mean other drivers on the road need to learn to drive correctly and maintain a set speed?
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I mean all.
Cruise control does not a good driver make.
 
viv1969 said:
I mean all.
Cruise control does not a good driver make.
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Nope although it would improve most, especially an adaptive cruise control.
 
viv1969 said:
Indeed, the majority are not.
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/ sits back and waits for the "But mine is, isn't everyone's?" comments :D

For the record, 2 vehicles here, one with, one without, the one without is 5 years younger than the one with.
 
Yes they are. Every car/vehicle has got one. Except perhaps for those American vehicles in Milton Keynes. They are normally located between the seat and the steering wheel (y)
 
dejongj said:
Yes they are. Every car/vehicle has got one. Except perhaps for those American vehicles in Milton Keynes. They are normally located between the seat and the steering wheel (y)
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:rolleyes:
 
viv1969 said:
Think we can sling him out later tonight? ;)
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I was thinking of starting a petition. All those who benefitted from the free movement of people and now want to deny it to other europeans should be deported forthwith :D
 
jakeblu said:
I was thinking of starting a petition. All those who benefitted from the free movement of people and now want to deny it to other europeans should be deported forthwith :D
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I'm quite happy going through a points based system. My skills are rare and in demand (y)
 
dejongj said:
I'm quite happy going through a points based system. My skills are rare and in demand (y)
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I'm glad you took it in the humour it was intended.

Enjoy your leaving do tonight and I hope you don't have a double headache tomorrow morning :)
 
Cobra said:
Next week, he still owes me a coffee and a Donut :D


Yeah anyone who is not a true native (Celt) can F ..... Oh wait ... no ... bugger ... :(



Self self self :p
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Actually my family name is Povel from Powel ;)
 
viv1969 said:
Not ridiculous at all.
If you burgle three houses in the same street within minutes, or the SAME house three times in a day, (for instance) it's three burglary offences.
He was a pillock, he drove too fast, and he got caught by three separate sets of cameras, therefore he was issued with 3 NIPs and under the totting up of points system, lost his licence.
Now he rides a pushbike.
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How fast does it go?
 
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