Battery Powered Outdoor Lighting

I have a vested interest, but basically the affordable choices are between the Elinchrom Quadra and the Lencarta Safari Li-on,

The Li-on is considerably cheaper, has 13 times more flashes to a charge, more than twice the power, has faster recycling, takes all S-fit accessories and won best in test in the Advanced Photographer group test. The Quadra has a shorter flash duration and is slightly smaller.

The Li-on is available in one head kits, two head kits and ringflash kits
 
As Garry says, also look at Profoto if you're feeling flush.

Or plug a regular studio head into a battery pack like Innovatronix (they do three sizes, from TheFlashCentre) or Godox.
 
Thanks guys - I'll check out your suggestions and post any follow on questions I may have.

Glenn
 
Even considering that Lencarta basically sponsor this forum and Garry does a lot of work for them, I'd have expected a longer list.

Off the top of my head, all the brands I can think of that have a light to fit your brief are...

Alienbees
Bowens Gemini
Broncolor Mobil
Elinchrom (Ranger or Quadra - Ranger is more expensive but IMO a better light)
Godox
Hensel Porty
Lencarta (actually 2 different lights the Classic and Li-On)
Priolite (very interesting range of lights tough AFAIK availability n the UK is poor)
Profoto (2 or 3 ranges ranging from the pricey to the eye watering)
Quantum (not to be confused with Quantuum)
Quantuum (not to be confused with Quantum)
Strobeam (3 different location light ranges)

Google will help you with some opinions on which will suit you. Some of those probably come into the "too expensive" bracket but most are around the price of the 2 already mentioned or less.

Additionally I was sure Calumet had an own brand range but I can't find it now. There are probably more and it might be helpful if people can add to this list since it's a fairly common question.

Also, lots of wedding photographers (myself included) use speed lights for late in the day shots or even "indoors" flash on extension cables.
 
Lencarta does not sponsor this forum, and AFAIK there is nothing to stop any other manufacturer or seller from becoming an advertiser on here. And advertisers don't have any special privileges anyway.

My advice, leaving aside my own involvement with Lencarta, is to do your research and make your own mind up, based on actual performance (not claimed performance). And read the very comprehensive test in Advanced Photographer, February issue.
 
treeman said:
Was going to chip in, but there really seems little point, this section of TP is becoming bit of a joke :(
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Your post makes it a blanket assumption that all of us that have replied have links to Lencarta. I do not. I have hired Ranger RX and Ranger Quadra's from The Flash Centre in London, and I've also tried a set of Safari Li-on's that belong to somebody else. As stated my personal opinion was that the Safari Li-on came out better.
 
richardhurst said:
Your post makes it a blanket assumption that all of us that have replied have links to Lencarta. I do not. I have hired Ranger RX and Ranger Quadra's from The Flash Centre in London, and I've also tried a set of Safari Li-on's that belong to somebody else. As stated my personal opinion was that the Safari Li-on came out better.
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I never mentioned Lencarta at all :shrug:
 
treeman said:
Was going to chip in, but there really seems little point, this section of TP is becoming bit of a joke :(
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treeman said:
I never mentioned Lencarta at all :shrug:
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Would you like to enlighten us all as to your reasoning for the opening comment then, just so I can gain an understanding?

As Lencarta was the only brand mentioned in any detail prior to your comment, it certainly came across as a dig.
 
digitalfailure said:
Would you like to enlighten us all as to your reasoning for the opening comment then, just so I can gain an understanding?

As Lencarta was the only brand mentioned in any detail prior to your comment, it certainly came across as a dig.
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At a rough guess, and knowing that Mark is a reasonable bloke, I say that he is as fed up as some of the rest of us that this forum has pretty much become the Garry and Michael show, with the occasional sanity check from Jonathan or Richard.
 
hang on Guys lets be reasonable here, Garry did give his competitors sales team 40 minutes to get in there first with their pitch :naughty::LOL:
 
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I'd be quite happy for Elinchrom or Bowens and Profoto to join up and post, can't make them though :shrug:, maybe someone out there has a contact and can pt a word in. WE as Talk Photography would LOVE to have more manufacturer involvement on here.

As I see it...... and I'm talking specifically about this thread now..... Garry declared his interest in Lencarta as is required of him under his terms and then proceeded to offer an accurate and helpful post.

I have recently been looking to move away from speedlites myself for out door work and have studied the Elinchrom offerings, the bowens battery for my studio heads and then looked at the lencarta lights while at the TP convention.

From what I saw the Safari 2 head kit is a no brainer for cost and power compared to the other offerings. The skyport system is fantastic on the elinchroms for adjusting the power remotely but it's not 500 quid nice. With the safari I can use the triggers I already own for my bowens and if I went with the travel pack I'll need to invest in a donkey to carry it all :eek:

Please continue to RTM posts or threads that break the rules of TP and we can look them over and remove any blatant / misplaced advertising or factually incorrect information.
 
It just gets a bit boring, that's all.

I'd happily recommend anyone wanting to learn more about photography to come to TP, but with the sole exception of the lighting threads.

We now have four members on here with financial links to a certain lighting company, chipping in with very biased and incorrect advice like:

"……….. but basically the affordable choices are between the Elinchrom Quadra and the Lencarta Safari Li-on"

Really? they're not even in the same price bracket, and certainly not the only two to consider. If the OP was looking for built in wireless or the ability to remotely control the power settings, or a built in slave cell or a smaller lighter unit, or wanted short flash durations………still only between those two? Oh, no, wait a minute the Safari has none of those.

Brian, I'm sure it's unlikely the other larger professional manufacturers are going to get involved on a forum with predominantly amateur users, it probably wouldn't be worth their time, though I could be wrong.

I'm not going to tell you how to run the forum, its yours, and I'm a guest, but in my opinion no one with financial links to companies, whether cameras, lights or accessories should be able to post. And it shouldn't be the job of other forum members to continually counter the biased and un-helpful advice.
It just dumbs down an otherwise useful forum.
 
Rather more eloquently put than my effort! :)

Btw, with the exception of shorter flash durations, once answer to the above is Strobeam! :D
 
DemiLion said:
Rather more eloquently put than my effort! :)

Btw, with the exception of shorter flash durations, once answer to the above is Strobeam! :D
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Not entirely sure what you mean by that. Strobeam (a company for which I do paid sales support) produce lights that have among the shortest durations of any location style lights. As well as fitting the other requirements above ;)

In fact, again off the top of my head, the only lights I can think of that fit all those requirements are

Alien Bees Einstein (though I can't remember what the new Vagabond weighs - this might rule it out but their control system is way cool)
Elinchrom Quadra
Profoto Acute B (unless they have tweaked the 7 series I really think it's too heavy for most sole shooters)
Strobeam (choice of 3 different lights)

But we could easily make up other criteria to flatter other brands ;)
 
I stopped posting (though still read occasionally) a few years ago for this very reason.

I got cheesed off with the extremely pro manufacturer bias of this obviously sponsored forum by men who jump on threads within minutes with financially vested interests, and was often lambasted for proffering alternative opinions which nearly got me banned!

I know of of no other open photography forum (and I'm a member of most) where business employees are allowed to post 'advice' and actual links to products that they themselves make money from, inevitably leading me to question their motives. Such vested bias belongs on their own forum on their own site to answer questions and make statements like 'I'm away for a few days, just in case you needed me'. This gives the impression that this is their forum. But they wont because this place is a goldmine for them.

Now I only post when I can particularly add something specific to the op's questions which hasn't already been answered, otherwise I really cant be arsed.
 
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That's a very sad posting by Mark IMHO.

I read somewhere that 'professionals' only account for a tiny percentage of lighting and photographic equipment sales - the overwhelming majority of kit is sold to enthusiasts.. like the people on this forum.

Everyone has a vested interest in the kit they own, ranging from financial sponsorships through to the ego value of 'that was my decision and I'll defend it til I die''.

Garry (and others) preface their comments with an open admission of having an interest and then go on to try to give sensible information. If they don't, then they get shot down by others.

Where I do agree with Mark is the postings from people who aren't honest about their associations and interests.

BTW.. what constitutes a 'financial interest' ? I got a discount from a shop the other day.. that may have a bearing on where I might recommend a purchase....

Take away the opinions of anyone with any semblance of a vested interest and you'll lose the vast majority of professionals on here. Forums like this work because enthusiasts come here to read and learn from those who have more experience.

And BTW I work with Lencarta once a year at Focus.. something that I've mentioned in every post (I believe) that has pertinence to Lencarta.
 
Garry and the other guys associated with Lencarta are between a rock and a hard place. I have not been happy with some posts in the past, and have said so, but now that their interests are clearly declared I think that, on balance, they benefit this forum. It was noticeable how during the week of Focus when they were mostly absent, the forum suddenly went very quiet and I don't think that's a good thing.

This place probably is a small goldmine for Lencarta, but that's not the point. The question is, do they give good advice? Generally, yes. Are Lencarta products good? Yes, pretty much, maybe not the best for sure but certainly great value. Are the guys sometimes a bit economical with the truth? Yes. Is anyone else free to give their own opinion and advice, biased or otherwise? Yes!
 
JonathanRyan said:
Not entirely sure what you mean by that. Strobeam (a company for which I do paid sales support) produce lights that have among the shortest durations of any location style lights. As well as fitting the other requirements above ;)
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I left out flash durations deliberately, because I don't have the facts to hand and wasn't going to post inaccurate or unchecked info; that's all! :)


I'm more than happy with my set. As an editorial photographer they do exactly what I need them to do; ie work first time.
 
Secondly, and to clarify some of the points raised by Jeremy and Richard, I haven't got any issue with the majority of the content of Lencarta Inc's posts- it's the sheer volume of them on a single thread. At times it amounts to brow bashing, which is why I rarely post in here.

'Kit' and 'what should I buy' threads aside, Garry's input in terms of techniques and lighting style is extremely valuable (as is the knowledge of other lighting specialists) and I'd hate to see that disappear.
 
HoppyUK said:
It was noticeable how during the week of Focus when they were mostly absent, the forum suddenly went very quiet and I don't think that's a good thing.

The question is, do they give good advice? Generally, yes. Are Lencarta products good? Yes, pretty much, maybe not the best for sure but certainly great value. Are the guys sometimes a bit economical with the truth? Yes. Is anyone else free to give their own opinion and advice, biased or otherwise? Yes!
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Agree completely with this! As an amateur just getting into studio lighting, I've found the TP forums to be invaluable, and Garry's tips and information very helpful, likewise for others who bothered responding to my threads.

DemiLion said:
'Kit' and 'what should I buy' threads aside, Garry's input in terms of techniques and lighting style is extremely valuable (as is the knowledge of other lighting specialists) and I'd hate to see that disappear.
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Yes, agreed again! I noticed it got very quiet when Focus was on.

At the end of the day, everyone's able to voice their own opinions and it's up to the OP to decide whose opinions they want to listen to.
 
Right... everyone please calm down a bit:)
Firstly, I am honest in declaring my interest, although not everyone is. My signature clearly states that I am associated with Lencarta, and for those posts where my signature doesn't show, it doesn't matter because my interest is clearly stated immediately below my name.

Secondly, no point in being modest, I have a very deep knowledge of certain lighting subjects, and I try to answer questions on those subjects whenever I feel I have something useful to say, whether or not the question is relevant to Lencarta. On subjects that I know little about, I say nothing - although I do read most answers in the hope of increasing my understanding.

Thirdly, I look at this forum as and when I can, so sometimes yes, I will happen to answer as soon as a question has been posted, but that's just coincidental. Right now I'm in China, I looked at the forum at about 9 a.m. local and am looking again now, after a full day of meetings etc, just back at the hotel and it is 9.47 p.m. local, 8 hours ahead of zulu time.
 
And to add, I won't be looking again until the morning, local time, because I'm tired and a little bit drunk, so if anyone wants to praise any other bits of equipment I won't contradict them. In fact I won't anyway, because even if I have strong views on the subject (and I have tested every bit of equipment on the market in the UK plus just about everything here in China) what I will not do is to knock equipment made (or in the case of some names mentioned here), sold by other people.
 
I know that Garry and anyone else involved with Lencarta do try to be fair and other brands do get mentioned, but it seems a bit like having Canon heavily involved in the Talk Equipment section answering questions about which camera is the best with answers like "Canon is the best, you should buy a Canon, but by the way other people make cameras too" Its the way it comes across on the forum unfortunately. This section is prob one of the most important sections on the forum, yet not many seem to want to post in it.

Lencarta is great kit though, I recently bought a Lencarta kit and I am a very happy customer

:)
 
jonesy_ni said:
I know that Garry and anyone else involved with Lencarta do try to be fair and other brands do get mentioned, but it seems a bit like having Canon heavily involved in the Talk Equipment section answering questions about which camera is the best with answers like "Canon is the best, you should buy a Canon, but by the way other people make cameras too" Its the way it comes across on the forum unfortunately. This section is prob one of the most important sections on the forum, yet not many seem to want to post in it.

Lencarta is great kit though, I recently bought a Lencarta kit and I am a very happy customer

:)
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All that I tried to do was to give a simple answer to a simple question, the OP wants a flash
for use mainly at wedding receptions, for evening bride and groom "atmospheric" shoots.
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and although even the lowest powered hotshoe flash type units, with an output equivalent to that of a hotshoe flashgun will be useful for that when it's getting dark, in reality once people actually have the equipment they are likely to want to use it as a powerful fill flash in bright sunlight too, which needs a lot more power - and especially when it needs to be used for group shots too, which is why I didn't bother to mention the Quantum and the various copies/other incarnations of it and only mentioned the two makes that I feel to be up to the job, at an affordable price.

I could have mentioned Profoto too, but the price isn't affordable for many people. If he had asked about fashion photography then I would have suggested the Profoto and Hensel ranges, as I have done in the past.

I also suggested that the OP reads the Advanced Photographer review. I think that anyone who has read that review which, AFAIK is the only comprehensive and independent review of portable lighting equipment will see why I'm saying this...
 
Garry Edwards said:
All that I tried to do was to give a simple answer to a simple question, the OP wants a flash
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To be fair, that's all you did.

I was just speaking about the lighting forum in general and the way it comes across. You are one of the first people to come along and offer advice usually and there is your association with lencarta. But what can you do apart from stop posting. No one would want that.

Without other experts or other brands coming into this forum and posting then its just the way its going to come across to some people
 
Kris said:
I stopped posting (though still read occasionally) a few years ago for this very reason.

I got cheesed off with the extremely pro manufacturer bias of this obviously sponsored forum by men who jump on threads within minutes with financially vested interests, and was often lambasted for proffering alternative opinions which nearly got me banned!

I know of of no other open photography forum (and I'm a member of most) where business employees are allowed to post 'advice' and actual links to products that they themselves make money from, inevitably leading me to question their motives. Such vested bias belongs on their own forum on their own site to answer questions and make statements like 'I'm away for a few days, just in case you needed me'. This gives the impression that this is their forum. But they wont because this place is a goldmine for them.

Now I only post when I can particularly add something specific to the op's questions which hasn't already been answered, otherwise I really cant be arsed.
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So what is your solution? Close lighting forum? ban all comments from garry? pull yourself together and get over it - it obviously really upsets you but ive still not worked out why

We have the best solution we could find that would benefit the forum and its users best. I too frequent other forums and have seen some far more blatant pimping and 'shadow' selling, at least here we know what garry does and who he represents. We cant make it much clearer.

POAH said:
Jinbei
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Pillock.
 
jonesy_ni said:
To be fair, that's all you did.

I was just speaking about the lighting forum in general and the way it comes across. You are one of the first people to come along and offer advice usually and there is your association with lencarta. But what can you do apart from stop posting. No one would want that.

Without other experts or other brands coming into this forum and posting then its just the way its going to come across to some people
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others have had the chance to do the same thing, they dont. hard luck on them, unfortunately.
 
matty said:
Pillock.
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nice for a mod to be such an arse. The portable battery lights I have are jinbei and I've had them for about 6-7 years without a problem. Lencarter, Bowens, profoto, calumet etc have been mentioned in the thread. All I did was mention another brand that is available to purchase that the OP might consider.
 
POAH said:
nice for a mod to be such an arse. The portable battery lights I have are jinbei and I've had them for about 6-7 years without a problem. Lencarter, Bowens, profoto, calumet etc have been mentioned in the thread. All I did was mention another brand that is available to purchase that the OP might consider.
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It may have been more helpful if you mentioned a model etc, rather than just the brand. It would help the OP when searching online
 
matty said:
So what is your solution? Close lighting forum? ban all comments from garry?

We have the best solution we could find that would benefit the forum and its users best.
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No, the best solution would be to ask users who are linked to companies (as in, they receive payment from) to not post any links or reference to that company. They may then choose not to post at all, but imho that's better than continual biased and inaccurate advice.


matty said:
others have had the chance to do the same thing, they dont. hard luck on them, unfortunately.
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Err I think Poah just did, he offers up the alternative of Jinbei and you call him a Pillock!

I hope that was just late night beer talk rather than your considered honest opinion when someone dares to counter the Lencarta stranglehold on this part of TP :nono:
 
POAH said:
nice for a mod to be such an arse. The portable battery lights I have are jinbei and I've had them for about 6-7 years without a problem. Lencarter, Bowens, profoto, calumet etc have been mentioned in the thread. All I did was mention another brand that is available to purchase that the OP might consider.
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well why not say that instead of chucking in the one word that you know full well will get a rise out of Garry and Lencarta. You skate the thin line between trolling and not trolling very well, but this time you got a bit too far over the line.


Michael Sewell said:
It may have been more helpful if you mentioned a model etc, rather than just the brand. It would help the OP when searching online
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quite.

treeman said:
No, the best solution would be to ask users who are linked to companies (as in, they receive payment from) to not post any links or reference to that company. They may then choose not to post at all, but imho that's better than continual biased and inaccurate advice.
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Garry is not allowed to post blatant adverts but is allowed to make contextual links if he wants to. Like it or not, that IS contextual. As an advertiser he is allowed to do that, he does sometimes push the envelope but you are all sensible adults (mostly) so can easily filter the noise from the real information. We cant blanket ban advertisers from posting as you suggest, this section of the forum would be a ghost-town, as described by DemiLion above, and that would be detrimental to the forums in general. Weve made it abundantly clear that Garry is a lencarta stooge, its pretty clear and he even states he has a vested interest.

Treeman said:
Err I think Poah just did, he offers up the alternative of Jinbei and you call him a Pillock!

I hope that was just late night beer talk rather than your considered honest opinion when someone dares to counter the Lencarta stranglehold on this part of TP :nono:
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no, as above, hes trolling as he usually does. I am talking about advertisers, there are lots of lighting companies, the only one that showed any interest tried stealth pimping then kicked off and threatened us with legal action, if elinchrome, profoto, jessops or the queen of sheeba want to advertise and post in the same fashion, they can get their money on the table.

Im naffed right off with people criticising decisions we make, its not easy to run this place and get the best mix of information to members for every subject. Like it or not, Garry knows plenty about lighting and his input is mostly very good and valuable to a lot of people, im not going to stop him posting because there will always be people who complain.
 
Jinbei products are available from http://www.fotokonijnenberg.co.uk/

They sell the Jinbei portable flash units, but I dont know Jinbei models in comparison to Safari Lion.

I had checked that site out before I bought some ElitePros from Lencarta and did manage to find the Jinbei model the same as ElitePro.

But, didnt work out any cheaper and the specs are not as good as what the Lencarta is so I went for Lencarta.

Might be worth a look Glenn
 
well why not say that instead of chucking in the one word that you know full well will get a rise out of Garry and Lencarta. You skate the thin line between trolling and not trolling very well, but this time you got a bit too far over the line.
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Actually that sort of thing doesn't get a rise out of Garry. I've seen far too many similar posts from POAH to take any notice.
Garry is not allowed to post blatant adverts but is allowed to make contextual links if he wants to. Like it or not, that IS contextual. As an advertiser he is allowed to do that, he does sometimes push the envelope but you are all sensible adults (mostly) so can easily filter the noise from the real information. We cant blanket ban advertisers from posting as you suggest, this section of the forum would be a ghost-town, as described by DemiLion above, and that would be detrimental to the forums in general. Weve made it abundantly clear that Garry is a lencarta stooge, its pretty clear and he even states he has a vested interest.
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I try to give useful and accurate info in my replies. If the process of giving that info is also of possible benefit to Lencarta, then why not? People can read my signature, they can read the bit immediately under my name (which appears on every post) and they can make their own minds up. I don't like the word' stooge', I am a professional photographer who happens to have a lighting manufacturer as an important client, and my role has grown with them over the years and I now own a few shares in the Company too, because I believe in it. I tend to associate the word 'stooge' with spin doctor, someone who will always defend his master, right or wrong. Not only do I not have a master, I wouldn't do that even if I did.

No, the best solution would be to ask users who are linked to companies (as in, they receive payment from) to not post any links or reference to that company. They may then choose not to post at all, but imho that's better than continual biased and inaccurate advice.
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Please report any post that you consider to be biased and inaccurate.
I don't have any controls over this forum, nor does Lencarta. All that I get in return for advertiser 'status' is a banner advert for Photolearn, and the word 'Advertiser' instead of 'hates foxes' or whatever the admins might otherwise put there instead:) And Lencarta, which is the user name for Harry, who only posts very occasionally, doesn't get any special treatment either, other than the 'Lencarta' banner advert.

I don't have, or want, any form of editorial control or input. I have exactly the same 'rights' as everyone else. In the past, some of my posts have been deleted - wrongly I feel, but hey this is the internet, the admins and mods are the ones who make the decisions on forums, not the members.
 
no I was not

there is only so much I can be bothered to write out on my iphone late at night when I'm up at 5am for work.

since I'm on a computer now I can post more

they are very cheap end RL 330 units - probably not been made for about 7 years. they use lead acid batterys which break puppy dogs legs when they grab them from the kitchen surface.



here is me using them

424041_3438693087657_559177547_n.jpg



another shot
208647_1008864983473_1280424365_23807_599_n.jpg



not strong enough to outshine the really bright sun like whe have the now though.



matty said:
no, as above, hes trolling as he usually does. I am talking about advertisers, there are lots of lighting companies, the only one that showed any interest tried stealth pimping then kicked off and threatened us with legal action, if elinchrome, profoto, jessops or the queen of sheeba want to advertise and post in the same fashion, they can get their money on the table.

Im naffed right off with people criticising decisions we make, its not easy to run this place and get the best mix of information to members for every subject. Like it or not, Garry knows plenty about lighting and his input is mostly very good and valuable to a lot of people, im not going to stop him posting because there will always be people who complain.
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