Beware Photoshop Rip-off and other scams

It won't run on my OS. They could have easily make it run though.
 
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I don't use any version as they say it won't run. But I'm okay with Gimp.
 
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Let's hope your old lawnmower is compatible with all types of lawn then. "Error. Wrong grass type detected. Please change your lawn to proceed"
 
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No. I didn't say Gimp was more powerful.
Adobe could easily do a Linux version. And done properly, like other programs do, it would run on a whole load of distros. But if they choose not to, and it's not going to run, then Gimp or other programs are certainly a better choice than a dead install.
 
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Not really news, I think most people already know that proprietary software is there to make money for the company, not to help the users of the software in any way. I like GIMP and love writing my own scripts plugins and add-ons to it. There are a lot of others too like Paint.net, etc. and at times I used around 6 or 7 programs to create certain images that couldn't be done as well and as easily in any other way with only one program.
 
juggler said:
Do you really expect them to support every flavour of every variant of PC OS you can think of? Really really?

You're clearly not bothered, which is fine. But claiming Gimp is as powerful as photoshop is plain misleading.
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What can PS do that GIMP can't or can't do with a script or addon?
Besides costing you a lot of money...lol
 
I think the adjustment layers is a useful function that is not yet available in Gimp.
I suspect you could simulate that with a script, but most people couldn't. You'd have to make it robust and share it with them.
I suspect recording scripts in Photoshop is slicker too.
I haven't found a de-haze either. Although there is probably a plugin out there. A lot of these features started life as independent algorithms by some clever techies. Like the content aware fill and Resynthesizer that were developed and tested in Gimp and only years later did they arrive in Photoshop.
LightZone and Darktable have other serious goodies not available in PS or Gimp. No one program does everything, sadly.
 
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I don't think the 'released version' of Gimp has the equivalent of adjustment layers.
Let us know how, if you know a trick.
 
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Do you have the PS ui version of GIMP? if not you can get it free.
You can also search for any additional features you need, with millions of developers, you are almost sure to find what you want because someone else wanted it first and solved it for you, that's the beauty of the GNU license.
Adobe has a couple dozen guys working on PS, do you really think they can possibly put in an equal number of man hours into that project that the millions of developers put into GIMP?
It would take millions of years, I don't want to wait that long.
The 'released version' of GIMP accepts coding in C, C++, Perl, Python, Scheme, and others. It also accepts the thousands of plugins that are available, it also allows for far more flexibility than PS ever could, and when it comes to software, flexibility and open source=power that can't be matched by proprietary software.
There is no trick, just search for what you want and as always in any endeavor, read, read, read, and learn. The more you know about software the more you can do with it and GNU license software is unlimited.
 
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GT von said:
GIMP does that, anything else?
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Not the version I've got - 2.8.14

GT von said:
Do you have the PS ui version of GIMP? if not you can get it free. You can also search for any additional features you need, with millions of developers, you are almost sure to find what you want because someone else wanted it first and solved it for you, that's the beauty of the GNU license.
Adobe has a couple dozen guys working on PS, do you really think they can possibly put in an equal number of man hours into that project that the millions of developers put into GIMP?
It would take millions of years, I don't want to wait that long.
The 'released version' of GIMP accepts coding in C, C++, Perl, Python, Scheme, and others. It also accepts the thousands of plugins that are available, it also allows for far more flexibility than PS ever could, and when it comes to software, flexibility and open source=power that can't be matched by proprietary software.
There is no trick, just search for what you want and as always in any endeavor, read, read, read, and learn. The more you know about software the more you can do with it and GNU license software is unlimited.
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The PS UI version might do it - I didn't even know it existed.

And therein lies the root problem with much open source software. The stuff is mainly there if you can find the good stuff in all the piles of rubbish, and find the particular variant which works how you want it too. And then work out how to set it up and navigate a non-standard UI. Then you still have to learn how to use the tools which are available to accomplish the effect you're after - that's true of Photoshop too of course - but there are an awful lot more Photoshop tutorials available than there are for Gimp.

I should have known better than to weigh in to another free-vs-proprietary software debate. I've also broken my own rule of not engaging in discussion until I've seen some work by those involved.

I wouldn't have bothered but for the fact that I'm convinced advising beginners to photography and image processing to start with Gimp is bad advice. For most beginners on Windows or Mac one or more of Elements, Affiinity and Lightroom is the simplest starting point.

Post-processing is difficult enough to learn without increasing the barrier to entry. Gimp is acceptable when no other option is available due to budget or OS constraints but it's a last resort.
 
juggler said:
And therein lies the root problem with much open source software. The stuff is mainly there if you can find the good stuff in all the piles of rubbish, and find the particular variant which works how you want it too. And then work out how to set it up and navigate a non-standard UI. Then you still have to learn how to use the tools which are available to accomplish the effect you're after - that's true of Photoshop too of course - but there are an awful lot more Photoshop tutorials available than there are for Gimp.

Post-processing is difficult enough to learn without increasing the barrier to entry. Gimp is acceptable when no other option is available due to budget or OS constraints but it's a last resort.
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Very good post and gets to the crux of the matter, couldn't agree more.
 
juggler said:
Not the version I've got - 2.8.14



The PS UI version might do it - I didn't even know it existed.

And therein lies the root problem with much open source software. The stuff is mainly there if you can find the good stuff in all the piles of rubbish, and find the particular variant which works how you want it too. And then work out how to set it up and navigate a non-standard UI. Then you still have to learn how to use the tools which are available to accomplish the effect you're after - that's true of Photoshop too of course - but there are an awful lot more Photoshop tutorials available than there are for Gimp.

I should have known better than to weigh in to another free-vs-proprietary software debate. I've also broken my own rule of not engaging in discussion until I've seen some work by those involved.

I wouldn't have bothered but for the fact that I'm convinced advising beginners to photography and image processing to start with Gimp is bad advice. For most beginners on Windows or Mac one or more of Elements, Affiinity and Lightroom is the simplest starting point.

Post-processing is difficult enough to learn without increasing the barrier to entry. Gimp is acceptable when no other option is available due to budget or OS constraints but it's a last resort.
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Yep, agreed, Simon. Spot on, IMO.
 
juggler said:
Post-processing is difficult enough to learn without increasing the barrier to entry. Gimp is acceptable when no other option is available due to budget or OS constraints but it's a last resort.
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Because Gimp doesn't all of the features of photoshop doesn't mean it is a barrier to entry. When you start you don't need adjustment layers and de haze anyway. And PS didn't always have them either.

I'm sure you are going to continue to recommend PS anyway. But because you hadn't heard of something, doesn't mean it's an inherent flaw with open source software. Especially as you are likely to spread the word about Adobe products, and keep hush about the open source ones. (apologies if I misunderstood your post) As such you are perpetuating the problem you were complaining about. I don't mean to take sides in the open versus proprietary debate either. All I'm saying is each program, not forgetting Darktable and LightZone too, has its advantages and disadvantages.
 
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ianp5a said:
Because Gimp doesn't all of the features of photoshop doesn't mean it is a barrier to entry. When you start you don't need adjustment layers and de haze anyway. And PS didn't always have them either. I'm sure you are going to continue to recommend PS anyway. But because you hadn't heard of something, doesn't mean it's an inherent flaw with open source software. Especially as you are likely to spread the word about Adobe products, and keep hush about the open source ones. (apologies if I misunderstood your post) As such you are perpetuating the problem you were complaining about. I don't mean to take sides in the open versus proprietary debate either. All I'm saying is each program, not forgetting Darktable and LightZone too, has its advantages and disadvantages.
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Ian, you're in a fairly "unique" (on this forum) situation in that you're using an OS that Adobe doesn't support. As such, you "need" to use other software to meet your needs. For those using an OS that Adobe does support, unless a person feels a need to make a moral stand against Adobe, there's really no reason to use Gimp or other freeware, especially when you can pick up a copy of PS7 for a tenner. There's a reason that most advanced photographers use Adobe products and I think it would be doing many a disservice to call them sheep. Back in the day, us MAC users were the "rebels". I was the "Paul Newman" of computers, without a cause..:D Rebel all you like, use whichever OS floats your boat, but Adobe LR & PS are very good products and when folks here ask for PP help, that's what most people will be using, not Gimp.
 
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TBH GIMP used to be pretty clunky in terms of interface until 2.8 came along (I've used it on and off since the late 90s) so its accessibility is relatively recent, and for the sake of comparison one would not usually recommend a new photographer to start straight out with PS anyway.

For a long time I used DigiKam as my main editing software, and only started looking at other packages because my camera wasn't supported when I bought a Sony. What I did find was that Lightroom produced better results in many areas than DigiKam, and that was why I bought a copy of LR instead of sticking with freeware. I still use GIMP occasionally, but it's a package of last resort (since I don't own PS) rather than a first choice.
 
juggler said:
Not the version I've got - 2.8.14



The PS UI version might do it - I didn't even know it existed.

And therein lies the root problem with much open source software. The stuff is mainly there if you can find the good stuff in all the piles of rubbish, and find the particular variant which works how you want it too. And then work out how to set it up and navigate a non-standard UI. Then you still have to learn how to use the tools which are available to accomplish the effect you're after - that's true of Photoshop too of course - but there are an awful lot more Photoshop tutorials available than there are for Gimp.

I should have known better than to weigh in to another free-vs-proprietary software debate. I've also broken my own rule of not engaging in discussion until I've seen some work by those involved.

I wouldn't have bothered but for the fact that I'm convinced advising beginners to photography and image processing to start with Gimp is bad advice. For most beginners on Windows or Mac one or more of Elements, Affiinity and Lightroom is the simplest starting point.

Post-processing is difficult enough to learn without increasing the barrier to entry. Gimp is acceptable when no other option is available due to budget or OS constraints but it's a last resort.
Click to expand...

That is not a problem with the software it's a problem with the users, they have become used to being lazy and not doing anything for themselves. If you don't want to be a part of the experience then stay with the proprietary stuff and get less power and less money for the things in life that matter like family and loved ones.

GIMPshop has the same features as GIMP but it tries to make it simpler for the crowd that can't code and doesn't like to learn new things, so it puts things where you might be able to find it easier based on muscle memory.

GIMP was the first editing software I ever used, and will probably be the last, but there have been a ton of others in between such as PS, PP, Phirea, Pixia, etc. None of the paid software has the same power that I get from GNU software.

I like more power and more say so over what I do when editing than most users do though.
 
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WingTsun said:
Ian, you're in a fairly "unique" (on this forum) situation in that you're using an OS that Adobe doesn't support. As such, you "need" to use other software to meet your needs. For those using an OS that Adobe does support, unless a person feels a need to make a moral stand against Adobe, there's really no reason to use Gimp or other freeware, especially when you can pick up a copy of PS7 for a tenner. There's a reason that most advanced photographers use Adobe products and I think it would be doing many a disservice to call them sheep. Back in the day, us MAC users were the "rebels". I was the "Paul Newman" of computers, without a cause..:D Rebel all you like, use whichever OS floats your boat, but Adobe LR & PS are very good products and when folks here ask for PP help, that's what most people will be using, not Gimp.
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Unique is the wrong word. There are many people on TP who use Linux and others who have stated they would use Linux if Lightroom ran on it. So you see the effect it is having. And then others spread misinformation. Sneer and compare Kubuntu to an old lawnmower. And others have never heard of the alternatives to both OS and application options for reasons we've just heard.

It is good for everyone if people use a variety of programs and pick the thing that suits them. It's good for Adobe users too when that happens.
 
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ianp5a said:
Unique is the wrong word. There are many people on TP who use Linux and others who have stated they would use Linux if Lightroom ran on it. So you see the effect it is having. And then others spread misinformation. Sneer and compare Kubuntu to an old lawnmower. And others have never heard of the alternatives to both OS and application options for reasons we've just heard.

It is good for everyone if people use a variety of programs and pick the thing that suits them. It's good for Adobe users too when that happens.
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Ian, that made no sense at all. And if you read my post again (or any of my previous posts on the subject) you will conclude I'm not one to sneer, nor have I sneered; just stated my opinion.
 
Lightroom will run on Linux, you just need to install and use WINE to run windows software. WINE stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator because it is not a windows emulator it is a seperate compatibility layer for running windows software.
juggler said:
Not the version I've got - 2.8.14



The PS UI version might do it - I didn't even know it existed.

And therein lies the root problem with much open source software. The stuff is mainly there if you can find the good stuff in all the piles of rubbish, and find the particular variant which works how you want it too. And then work out how to set it up and navigate a non-standard UI. Then you still have to learn how to use the tools which are available to accomplish the effect you're after - that's true of Photoshop too of course - but there are an awful lot more Photoshop tutorials available than there are for Gimp.

I should have known better than to weigh in to another free-vs-proprietary software debate. I've also broken my own rule of not engaging in discussion until I've seen some work by those involved.

I wouldn't have bothered but for the fact that I'm convinced advising beginners to photography and image processing to start with Gimp is bad advice. For most beginners on Windows or Mac one or more of Elements, Affiinity and Lightroom is the simplest starting point.

Post-processing is difficult enough to learn without increasing the barrier to entry. Gimp is acceptable when no other option is available due to budget or OS constraints but it's a last resort for me.
Click to expand...

FTFY
The stuff is mainly there if you can find the good stuff in all the piles of rubbish, and find the particular variant which works how you want it too. And then work out how to set it up and navigate a non-standard UI. Then you still have to learn how to use the tools which are available to accomplish the effect you're after - that's true of Photoshop too of course - but there are an awful lot more Photoshop tutorials available than there are for Gimp.
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It's true if you need to have your hand held you will have to pay for a nanny, no way around that.
 
WingTsun said:
Ian, that made no sense at all. And if you read my post again (or any of my previous posts on the subject) you will conclude I'm not one to sneer, nor have I sneered; just stated my opinion.
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Yes I can see what you are saying. But think about how some others, who are less informed, will see your comment.
Phil V said:
I can go a month without using PS, and it's still a bargain :)
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Yes. Just to refresh, different people have different needs. Some do recommend that Photoshop is the only appropriate option without checking the persons situation.
 
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GT von said:
It's true if you need to have your hand held you will have to pay for a nanny, no way around that.
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That's a nice sneer you have there, sir, but I don't think it's going to win many friends to the world of non-proprietary software.
 
Yes. Same attitude as on the other thread about the unexpected Win 10 Upgrade.
 
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ancient_mariner said:
That's a nice sneer you have there, sir, but I don't think it's going to win many friends to the world of non-proprietary software.
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Is someone sneering at me? I'd better press unignore for a moment...

GT von said:
It's true if you need to have your hand held you will have to pay for a nanny, no way around that.
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ah..

juggler said:
I've also broken my own rule of not engaging in discussion until I've seen some work by those involved.
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goes hunting..

..comes back. Can't see any evidence of significant post processing at all, and thus no idea whether you've got any real idea what you're talking about. Or maybe it's so delicate & subtle that I can't see it. Either way, I'm out..
 
I'm pretty sure this is Richard C Jones back again, in which case it's unlikely we can expect either reasoning, helpful critique or accepting of critique from others. :(

Ignore was probably the correct thing to do.
 
Funny.

I think, with ignore, you miss all the fun, and miss seeing people dig their own graves. But I suppose if you get wound up easily, it's a sensible precaution.
 
ancient_mariner said:
I'm pretty sure this is Richard C Jones back again, in which case it's unlikely we can expect either reasoning, helpful critique or accepting of critique from others. :(

Ignore was probably the correct thing to do.
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I thought that when I saw the rubbish photo in rural and scenic then the defence of it.
 
ianp5a said:
Because Gimp doesn't all of the features of photoshop doesn't mean it is a barrier to entry. When you start you don't need adjustment layers and de haze anyway. And PS didn't always have them either.

I'm sure you are going to continue to recommend PS anyway. But because you hadn't heard of something, doesn't mean it's an inherent flaw with open source software. Especially as you are likely to spread the word about Adobe products, and keep hush about the open source ones. (apologies if I misunderstood your post) As such you are perpetuating the problem you were complaining about. I don't mean to take sides in the open versus proprietary debate either. All I'm saying is each program, not forgetting Darktable and LightZone too, has its advantages and disadvantages.
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The fact that it doesn't have adjustment layers means it's a non starter. I never process an image in PS without using adjustment layers so waste of time for me even if I was interested.

GT von said:
That is not a problem with the software it's a problem with the users, they have become used to being lazy and not doing anything for themselves. If you don't want to be a part of the experience then stay with the proprietary stuff and get less power and less money for the things in life that matter like family and loved ones.

GIMPshop has the same features as GIMP but it tries to make it simpler for the crowd that can't code and doesn't like to learn new things, so it puts things where you might be able to find it easier based on muscle memory.

GIMP was the first editing software I ever used, and will probably be the last, but there have been a ton of others in between such as PS, PP, Phirea, Pixia, etc. None of the paid software has the same power that I get from GNU software.

I like more power and more say so over what I do when editing than most users do though.
Click to expand...

But I and millions of others like being lazy. I don't want to search for plugins and any other crap to make something do something. It have all I want in what I have and will always recommend PS to someone starting out. And if they said what about gimp I would tell them to do themselves a favour and forget it. And for 99.9% of those people I would have given them the right advice.
 
Gaz J said:
The fact that it doesn't have adjustment layers means it's a non starter. I never process an image in PS without using adjustment layers so waste of time for me even if I was interested.



But I and millions of others like being lazy. I don't want to search for plugins and any other crap to make something do something. It have all I want in what I have and will always recommend PS to someone starting out. And if they said what about gimp I would tell them to do themselves a favour and forget it. And for 99.9% of those people I would have given them the right advice.
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Because increasing your knowledge and adding a new skillset can only lead to regrets.
Lol
 
Gaz J said:
It have all I want in what I have and will always recommend PS to someone starting out. And if they said what about gimp I would tell them to do themselves a favour and forget it. And for 99.9% of those people I would have given them the right advice.
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Great for you. As long as you don't think that everyone has the same needs, and you check out what suits them, and you know all about Gimp and the other alternatives, then fine.
 
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