Beware Photoshop Rip-off and other scams

ianp5a said:
Great for you. As long as you don't think that everyone has the same needs, and you check out what suits them, and you know all about Gimp and the other alternatives, then fine.
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I don't need to check out Gimp or anything else. I don't need to know about them. I don't know anyone who runs any computer other than Mac or a Windows PC. PS/LR will be the most suitable for them. a. Because it's all there for them. b. Most, if not all, don't want to spend time looking for plug ins etc they just want to get on with it. c. It's cheap. d. There are 1000s of tutorials on line and because most other people use it help is generally only a text message or e-mail away. e. Gimp has one huge failing in no adjustment layers. That in itself disqualifies it immediately from being a serious alternative in my book.

As I said before in 99.9% of the cases it will be the most suitable for them.

Great for me, great for them.
 
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Other than the immediate problem of gimp, which is the name as I can't read it without adding suit to the end is it boils down to a trust thing.

In some respects Ian is right, I and others would fall for Adobe because of the brand/marketing and spend money we didn't necessarily have to spend.

I don't see anything wrong with this and I wonder what car Ian drives. Is it a £250 old banger, that is roadworthy and safe that achieves the job of going from a to b as cheaply as possible, or is it something newer from a brand he likes and trusts with features that are beneficial and the dealer support network is in place. Along with the chance that you know someone else with one or there are Internet forums out there that you can share experiences with to help fix problems easier?

What I'm saying is how far do you take your life style choice to save money? I mean Adobe is £8 a month, that's all. Or if it's just to be different then that's fine, nobody minds what you do, but accept it is you being different and Adobe suits most others.
 
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It's not me being different at all, because Photoshop won't run on my PC. So it puts itself out of the running. You'll also find a lot of people on TP who don't want to pay £8 for Photoshop.

Regarding trust, you'll find people who are prepared to try different things out and look at various choices before deciding. And others who want to stay
mainstream and be as safe as possible. They typically have more insurances and are highly sensitive to what others do. They are often brand loyal (see the brand loyalty thread) and will probably go for a Mac too.

Regarding the car question, I have a cheap and cheerful hatchback and avoid the rip off dealers. It would be nice to have a sleek looking sports car. But as I drive fewer times per month than I edit pictures, it's not worth it for me. If you look at people's car choices, you'll appreciate that people have different situations, needs and desires. Recommending just one particular car is also nonsense.

Regarding plugins, I don't get the problem. People gladly research and buy plugins for Photoshop. Gimp plugins are free, and are available in the central registry. You can add them all with one click! A checkbox in the software store. Gimp has a distinct advantage there.

Hey, I'm not suggesting you use Gimp (like that other fellow might). I'm just answering questions and adding bits of information that might help.
 
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I have a paid stan alone version of Lightroom but have now subscribed to The £8 offering from Adobe. Frankly for those who think its a rip off the answer is very simple, do not buy it. The usual trash journalism which is about par now.
 
Personally I want to be able to use Photoshop out of interest. As for wanting to be a Pro :) I suspect it will take a bit more than a bit of software and an £8 a month subscription. I was happy with Aperture but Apple decided to throw away its users.
 
If we can step out of our trenches for a moment, Ian's point about differnet things suiting different people is a very good one - it just doesn't need this level of animosity and willy-waving. For reasons that should be obvious to anyone that's learned to use Linux, that kind of approach to software will only appeal and work for a relatively small proportion of the population, who are comfy fiddling about with stuff that' doesn't have a direct connection to what they want to do. That difference is is also illustrated between OSX and Windows software, except that most who use windows don't really have much idea about how it works but somehow scrape along, but those who choose to use OSX recognise they don't want to know about how it works and can afford to insulate themselves from that.

It would be perfectly reasonable, using the examples of behaviour in this thread, to mock someone because they couldn't replace the clutch or drive shafts in their car, fit central heating or rewire their house, etc etc - after all, the knowledge of how to do these things is readily available online. But that's silly.
 
ancient_mariner said:
It would be perfectly reasonable, using the examples of behaviour in this thread, to mock someone because they couldn't replace the clutch or drive shafts in their car, fit central heating or rewire their house, etc etc - after all, the knowledge of how to do these things is readily available online. But that's silly.
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There are people who can't change a clutch? :wideyed::D
 
I didn't know modern computers 'have' a clutch these days!



ancient_mariner said:
For reasons that should be obvious to anyone that's learned to use Linux, that kind of approach to software will only appeal and work for a relatively small proportion of the population, who are comfy fiddling about with stuff that' doesn't have a direct connection to what they want to do.
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I'm not sure what is supposed to be obvious? I'm not an IT person and never intend to use a command line, ever. It's not necessary. I use Kubuntu and Xubuntu Linux at home like I do Windows at work.

Even though most nerds use Linux, most Linux users are not nerds.
 
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I use both Windows, OSX and IOS, even a little bit of Marshmallow. I know longer need to know how the operating system functions that mostly went out with DOS. Reading through the posts I mainly see friendly discussion. Am I missing something ?
 
ianp5a said:
I didn't know modern computers 'have' a clutch these days!
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Maybe the 'problem' in this thread is one of comprehension in that case?

I made no mention of the command line (available in every OS I know of). Linux does tend to 'just work' these days, but occasionally one is still required to peek beneath the 'hood' to make it work in a way that, generally, isn't needed in W/OSX. Having that ability doesn't require being a nerd, but does need a different attitude.
 
I find that the Preview tool on OS-X does 90% of what I want. Elements does the other 10%. If my MacBook flamed out, I'd be just as happy using The GIMP on my Linux machines. Both approaches work for me but then I've been using Unix since the 'eighties and I think that way.

Different people have different mindsets, different skills and different approaches.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Maybe the 'problem' in this thread is one of comprehension in that case?

I made no mention of the command line (available in every OS I know of). Linux does tend to 'just work' these days, but occasionally one is still required to peek beneath the 'hood' to make it work in a way that, generally, isn't needed in W/OSX. Having that ability doesn't require being a nerd, but does need a different attitude.
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Yes. I didn't understand your point and assumed you meant something techy. Like the dreaded command line Although I've never been required to any nerdy stuff on Linux. Some nerds will insist you do. But they generally don't know their way around the GUIs. If that was necessary I'd be out of there like a shot.
 
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ianp5a said:
Yes. I didn't understand your point and assumed you meant something techy. Although I've never been required to any nerdy stuff on Linux. Some nerds will insist you do. But they generally don't know their way around the GUIs. If that was necessary I'd be out of there like a shot.
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The *buntu variations have made life simpler for new users, but there's still a leap to realise that software generally comes from a repository, and requires installation through applications that manage dependencies, for example. Some distros STILL require one jump through all kinds of hoops before you can play back DVDs etc (for good reasons, but you still have to jump) or work with audio. Some distros really, really don't work out of the box and require far more effort than they reward, or will break on upgrading (and you WILL need command line skills when X won't run).

You need to be a bit nerdy to run Linux - not a lot, but certainly a little.

I'm glad you realised computers don't have clutches. ;)
 
You are clearly talking about something I've never seen. Anyone with a smartphone will know what an app store is. I've never needed the command line. Despite misinformation from nerds. I've only followed recommendations on which easy Linux to use. I won't and can't do anthing nerdy. I've never had to do anything with X or dependancies. Whatever that is. I have seen nerds recommending nerdy installations. Stay well away from that and it's plain sailing. Not perfect, but it's all normal GUIs for everything.

If everything must look identical to a Mac or Windows, then it might not be for you.
 
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Apps didn't used to be in 'app stores' but came from repositories, and you often had to tell your program manager where to find each repository (including those for 'illegal' codecs to play DVDs etc). Things have come a long way.
 
There are
Gaz J said:
I don't need to check out Gimp or anything else. I don't need to know about them. I don't know anyone who runs any computer other than Mac or a Windows PC. PS/LR will be the most suitable for them. a. Because it's all there for them. b. Most, if not all, don't want to spend time looking for plug ins etc they just want to get on with it. c. It's cheap. d. There are 1000s of tutorials on line and because most other people use it help is generally only a text message or e-mail away. e. Gimp has one huge failing in no adjustment layers. That in itself disqualifies it immediately from being a serious alternative in my book.

As I said before in 99.9% of the cases it will be the most suitable for them.

Great for me, great for them.
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There are scripts for creating adjustment layers, so now what your excuse? lol
 
GT von said:
There are

There are scripts for creating adjustment layers, so now what your excuse? lol
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I just can't be bothered. PS does all I need. What's £8 a month to get the latest and the best.
 
Has anybody even considered MS Paint?

Sorry to offend anyone, but I spend a whole £8 for two great bits of software. I also confess to buying On1 and Nik Collection.:oops: :$:p
 
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ecoleman said:
Has anybody even considered MS Paint?

Sorry to offend anyone, but I spend a whole £8 for two great bits of software. I also confess to buying On1 and Nik Collection.:oops: :$:p
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Nik is free, lol you paid for it. Brilliant.
 
Gaz J said:
I just can't be bothered. PS does all I need. What's £8 a month to get the latest and the best.
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. "A foole and his money be soone at debate: which after with sorow repents him too late."
 
GT von said:
. "A foole and his money be soone at debate: which after with sorow repents him too late."
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Worth bearing in mind that money is only one way of measuring value and investment, and that a zero purchase price may have other cost implications further down the line. For those who work professionally, it would be very hard to justify using software that was not supported professionally, or to quote another old saw "penny-wise and pound-foolish".

Maybe you place a low value on your time and energy, so you don't mind investing it to acquire scripting skills that can be adapted to make freeware perform as you require? Perhaps others value their time and energy differently, and doing things as you do would make that option more expensive than purchasing proprietary software?
 
GT von said:
. "A foole and his money be soone at debate: which after with sorow repents him too late."
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Well I've got something tangible for my money as opposed to burning it or drinking it for example. So as I said, what's £8 a month. And I've just saved £11 a month by cancelling my Union subs. So actually I'm making money and have PS and LR and NIK.
 
already had the skills from my time spent as a so
ancient_mariner said:
Worth bearing in mind that money is only one way of measuring value and investment, and that a zero purchase price may have other cost implications further down the line. For those who work professionally, it would be very hard to justify using software that was not supported professionally, or to quote another old saw "penny-wise and pound-foolish".

Maybe you place a low value on your time and energy, so you don't mind investing it to acquire scripting skills that can be adapted to make freeware perform as you require? Perhaps others value their time and energy differently, and doing things as you do would make that option more expensive than purchasing proprietary software?
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Already had the skills from my time as a software engineer many years ago, before Windows and GUI's. I value nothing more than knowledge, and any time spent acquiring that is time well spent indeed.
 
ancient_mariner said:
The *buntu variations have made life simpler for new users, but there's still a leap to realise that software generally comes from a repository, and requires installation through applications that manage dependencies, for example. Some distros STILL require one jump through all kinds of hoops before you can play back DVDs etc (for good reasons, but you still have to jump) or work with audio. Some distros really, really don't work out of the box and require far more effort than they reward, or will break on upgrading (and you WILL need command line skills when X won't run).

You need to be a bit nerdy to run Linux - not a lot, but certainly a little.

I'm glad you realised computers don't have clutches. ;)
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I've got a linux dual boot on a laptop, nothing clever required, no command lines, stuff runs fine.
 
GT von said:
already had the skills from my time spent as a so

Already had the skills from my time as a software engineer many years ago, before Windows and GUI's. I value nothing more than knowledge, and any time spent acquiring that is time well spent indeed.
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If you have an interest in something then you will try different things and learn about them. If you don't then learning is harder and motivating yourself to investigate and research it is less appealing. I have absolutely no interest in computers or its software. I want something to work out of the box and allow me to utilise it to process my images. It is my images that I am interested in and the subject matter I shoot. I will spend time learning about those and that, to me, is time well spent.

But we are all different, and what floats my boat doesn't others. Google is my knowledge base and I value it highly.
 
GT von said:
already had the skills from my time spent as a so

Already had the skills from my time as a software engineer many years ago, before Windows and GUI's. I value nothing more than knowledge, and any time spent acquiring that is time well spent indeed.
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So someone else paid for you to learn how to create scripts and manipulate software, effectively paying in advance for what you can now use 'free'. Knowledge is very valuable IF it's knowledge that is useful and helpful - otherwise it's just data - but of course what one thinks is useful another considers a waste of time, hence Gaz's post above. Sadly time, energy and resources (not to mention memory) are quite finite, so most of us will tend to specialise in just a few areas of knowledge which are also often a reflection of our abilities.
 
WingTsun said:
You can pick up an old copy of PS7 for a tenner on the auctions. I'd advise people serious about their photography and those intending to continue long term to do that and use it as a way to learn PS. Hardly a big investment and it will do more than most people will ever need.
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Well I got a copy for £4.99 as a try out and it also appears to be a free download from some sites.

The one I got activates on the supplied serial no. and it appears to be a corporate copy as it came on a single white disc.

Must admit after a brief try I will probably stick to the programs I'm used to but at a fiver can't complain and would be ideal for a beginner.
.
 
WingTsun said:
There are people who can't change a clutch? :wideyed::D
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OMG! They are probably the same people who think Google IS the Internet and don't know how to cut and paste!

Bring back the birch and the ducking stool!
.
 
Gaz J said:
Well I've got something tangible for my money as opposed to burning it or drinking it for example. So as I said, what's £8 a month. And I've just saved £11 a month by cancelling my Union subs. So actually I'm making money and have PS and LR and NIK.
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Still paying my union subs, always think of it as insurance, area rep still has a little influence left and union will supply a solicitor if reqd. Can remember the days when if someone was "under review" or being arkward in work one of the first questions was is he/she in the union - those days are long gone though. Don`t plan or think I will ever need it but whats £12 a month:) and still pay Adobe £6.98 a month but as daughter has just about finished her A level art course should probably cancel that as it was my excuse to get it in the first place- probably won`t though:)
 
petersmart said:
Well I got a copy for £4.99 as a try out and it also appears to be a free download from some sites.

The one I got activates on the supplied serial no. and it appears to be a corporate copy as it came on a single white disc.

Must admit after a brief try I will probably stick to the programs I'm used to but at a fiver can't complain and would be ideal for a beginner.
.
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It now turns out I could have got the program for FREE:

http://softlay.net/photo-image/image-editor/adobe-photoshop-7-0-free-download-full-version.html

Have also posted the URL in Freebies.
.
 
ancient_mariner said:
So someone else paid for you to learn how to create scripts and manipulate software, effectively paying in advance for what you can now use 'free'. Knowledge is very valuable IF it's knowledge that is useful and helpful - otherwise it's just data - but of course what one thinks is useful another considers a waste of time, hence Gaz's post above. Sadly time, energy and resources (not to mention memory) are quite finite, so most of us will tend to specialise in just a few areas of knowledge which are also often a reflection of our abilities.
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I wish! Lol I paid for my own education and all of my degrees myself.
 
Gaz J said:
If you have an interest in something then you will try different things and learn about them. If you don't then learning is harder and motivating yourself to investigate and research it is less appealing. I have absolutely no interest in computers or its software. I want something to work out of the box and allow me to utilise it to process my images. It is my images that I am interested in and the subject matter I shoot. I will spend time learning about those and that, to me, is time well spent.

But we are all different, and what floats my boat doesn't others. Google is my knowledge base and I value it highly.
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Googles a bit tough to access without a computer isn't it?
 
GT von said:
Googles a bit tough to access without a computer isn't it?
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I have learned where the on button is. Was a bit confused as I couldn't find the off button or the any key but I've sussed it now. So my PC training is complete.
 
ancient_mariner said:
So you have paid to use your software after all. ;)
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No, I paid for my knowledge. My knowledge lets me do things others cannot do like use free software and get more power for editing than any proprietary garbage will.

Gaz, we are glad for people like you, it makes us millionaires.
 
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