British National Overseas - HK.

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From the BBC news site...

"The UK could offer British National (Overseas) passport holders in Hong Kong a path to UK citizenship if China does not suspend plans for a security law in the territory, UK Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab says."

Full story here...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52842303

I'd change "could offer" to "has offered" and put a full stop after "citizenship."

300,000 is quite a chunk if they all want to come but IMO the UK has an obligation both because of past involvement but also regardless of that because it would surely be the right thing to do. I'm sure many HK would be a credit to any country they emigrate to.

I have a Chinese brother in law who normally avoids anything even remotely political like the plague but I've never seen him so animated as when talking about the unrest in HK. The HK are, he said, stupid to expect freedom. I can't agree with that and I do hope the UK and others do all they can to help resettle those who don't wish to live in a HK increasingly subject to Chinese systems.

I'm hoping the UK strengthens it's stance and offers any BNO HK the opportunity to come to the UK with a fast tracked citizenship route.
 
Lot of people in this forum will be very unhappy at the prospect of even more foreigners arriving here.
 
Hopefully they wont trash the thread and will instead express their thoughts calmly and reasonably.

I know immigration is a concern but perhaps it's more of a concern in some areas than others. If those concerns can be eased or negated by improving services or settling people elsewhere I do think that many would sympathise with those wanting a freer life than those in HK face under Chinese rule.
 
Moral obligation to allow immigration I should have thought?
 
This could create holly hell with China though. I could see flights out being blocked if any significant numbers of BNO's started to leave.
 
I think we should butt out of the China business, we knew what they would do when we handed it back.
I certainly don't want any more HK or Chinese drifting in and out of this country.
We have them to thank for Coronavirus.
 
Maybe the Chinese had their fingers crossed when the signed on the dotted line. Maybe we should have seen this coming but we are where we are.
 
Thinking back to the Ugandan Asians, I'm in agreement that many Hong Kong citizens would be an asset to Britain.

The time is not in favour of this working, though. With the racists currently thinking themselves in the ascendant (due to our leaving the EU) and the tendency of immigrants to move to already crowded areas, this could go wrong very quickly.

If we do invite them to settle in large numbers there will have to be careful handling of where they settle and what rules there are regarding their call on resources. To do otherwise could cause problems we're currently not in a position to handle properly.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Lot of people in this forum will be very unhappy at the prospect of even more foreigners arriving here.
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Possibly true, but many of us will be far more unhappy that these people have been left at the 'mercy' of Marxist China. I speak from personal experience, between 1968 and 1977 I sailed on tankers which carried as part of the crew four Hong Kong Chinese, two fitters and two pumpmen.

A lot of them had escaped from mainland China after the Marxists took over and still bore the marks of the injuries and wounds they had received from the 'Peoples Army'.
 
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I'd imagine that a number of potential HK immigrants wouldn't be setting in the areas which have seen resentment due to larger numbers of refugees and immigrants and the associated both only perceived and real pressures on resources and services.

If we could avoid those issues there may not be real problems. If the UK were to take a large number over a relatively short time I'd like to see some sympathetic and informing publicity as to why and I do hope that once informed any tending towards resentment may hopefully change their minds.
 
My wife’s cousin married a fella of Hong Kong origin, both doctors they moved out some years ago so ‘he could help his people’ now very wealthy after years in private medicine, I hear that they may move back here due to increasing Chinese influence. Her concern, amongst others I’m sure, I won’t be able to bring the nanny, a suitcase of cash may be another problem. Still two more doctors in the country will be good.
 
woof woof said:
I have a Chinese brother in law who normally avoids anything even remotely political like the plague but I've never seen him so animated as when talking about the unrest in HK. The HK are, he said, stupid to expect freedom. I can't agree with that and I do hope the UK and others do all they can to help resettle those who don't wish to live in a HK increasingly subject to Chinese systems.
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What did your brother in law mean when he said 'The HK are...stupid to expect freedom' and why do you disagree?

I can't help thinking that he meant the HK Chinese were stupid to expect any other outcome after 1997. China tends to play a long game, and I don't believe they ever intended to abide by the policy of 'One country, two systems' proposed by Deng Xiaoping. It was never in their interests to allow HK to continue with its freedoms and laissez faire policies, which are anathema to Communists and would inevitably lead to conflict with their authoritarian rule in the rest of China.
 
I know exactly what he meant. He meant HK are stupid to think they can be free under Chinese rule. He thinks they should either shut up and live quietly under Chinese rule or leave. The first option sounds easy but it means giving up rights we in the UK would take for granted and if you upset the regime you stand the chance of disappearing, dying or going to prison. The second option is easy to say even if they're allowed to leave but the option may not be open to all of them and even if it is it can be an expensive, stressful and a lengthy process. Mrs WW is going through it at the moment, she's Thai.

I disagree with him because I feel it's the right of everyone to expect freedom. I know there are limits and even in the UK some would say we aren't free but it's all relative. I certainly think people should have more than the freedoms they enjoy under Chinese rule.

Regardless of what China intended to do they signed an agreement they should stand by and if not they should face some international sanctions. I suppose the UK had no real choice but to hand HK over and hope they were as good as their word.
 
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woof woof said:
I know exactly what he meant. He meant HK are stupid to think they can be free under Chinese rule. He thinks they should either shut up and live quietly under Chinese rule or leave. The first option sounds easy but it means giving up rights we in the UK would take for granted and if you upset the regime you stand the chance of disappearing, dying or going to prison. The second option is easy to say even if they're allowed to leave but the option may not be open to all of them and even if it is it can be an expensive, stressful and a lengthy process. Mrs WW is going through it at the moment, she's Thai.
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OK, that's more or less what I thought, and I would agree with him in so far as freedom and Communism are incompatible. I know that leaving HK for the UK or the US (which seems to be preferred by most HK Chinese) isn't easy though.

I disagree with him because I feel it's the right of everyone to expect freedom. I know there are limits and even in the UK some would say we aren't free but it's all relative. I certainly think people should have more than the freedoms they enjoy under Chinese rule.
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I agree that everyone should be free, within some sort of constitutional and legal framework, but China will never permit that sort of freedom whilst it remains under Communist rule.

Regardless of what China intended to do they signed an agreement they should stand by and if not they should face some international sanctions. I suppose the UK had no real choice but to hand HK over and hope they were as good as their word.
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I doubt if the UK trusted the Chinese government to keep their word, but I don't think they really had any choice. China could have taken the colony back at any time by simply sending a couple of million people across the border, and Britain couldn't have stopped them. I suspect the negotiations were a face saving exercise, but China has always placed its own interests above anyone else's. I would like to see sanctions imposed, ideally through an agreement between all Western countries that trade with China, but I can't see it happening.
 
It's hugely overrated. Wait until 18:00 and the anticipation makes it taste so much better!
 
Welcome them here with open arms ,might get this country back on its feet again .. industrious people are what we need ,give them a bit of land ,isle of wight ? Or Isle of Man .or even Milton Keynes ... :wave::wave::welcome:
 
MartynK said:
OK, that's more or less what I thought, and I would agree with him in so far as freedom and Communism are incompatible. I know that leaving HK for the UK or the US (which seems to be preferred by most HK Chinese) isn't easy though.



I agree that everyone should be free, within some sort of constitutional and legal framework, but China will never permit that sort of freedom whilst it remains under Communist rule.



I doubt if the UK trusted the Chinese government to keep their word, but I don't think they really had any choice. China could have taken the colony back at any time by simply sending a couple of million people across the border, and Britain couldn't have stopped them. I suspect the negotiations were a face saving exercise, but China has always placed its own interests above anyone else's. I would like to see sanctions imposed, ideally through an agreement between all Western countries that trade with China, but I can't see it happening.
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I know what you're trying to say, I think, but it's a basic human feeling and right. People shouldn't be thought of as stupid because they want to be free and these aren't unusual aspirations. Look at China and what can get you a lengthy prison sentence, killed or disappeared. These are basic rights.
 
woof woof said:
Hopefully they wont trash the thread and will instead express their thoughts calmly and reasonably.

I know immigration is a concern but perhaps it's more of a concern in some areas than others. If those concerns can be eased or negated by improving services or settling people elsewhere I do think that many would sympathise with those wanting a freer life than those in HK face under Chinese rule.
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"
Hopefully they wont trash the thread and will instead express their thoughts calmly and reasonably."

Well, do you feel lucky ? :LOL:

I think I can hear the trash trucking rolling (again)................:(
 
There is a lot of talent in Hong Kong that would be welcome.

I have a feeling that, given the nature of the Chinese government, Hong Kong inhabitants will be given a simple choice as to what they do. I.E. you can stay OR you can stay.
 
woof woof said:
I know what you're trying to say, I think, but it's a basic human feeling and right. People shouldn't be thought of as stupid because they want to be free and these aren't unusual aspirations. Look at China and what can get you a lengthy prison sentence, killed or disappeared. These are basic rights.
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There's a very interesting piece by Chris Patten, who knows the Chinese Communist system much better than most, on Reuters website this morning.
I think it would be a good idea for those who are interested in the situation to read it.
 
woof woof said:
I The first option sounds easy but it means giving up rights we in the UK would take for granted
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Funny old world, that is almost exactly the words I used, about my personal concerns, when debating brexit with my parents in 2016......
 
Mr Bump said:
I think we should butt out of the China business, we knew what they would do when we handed it back.
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Two wrongs doesn't make a right. And no, a nazi (or a nazi-styled commie) shouldn't get a free pass to do what they get to do in the end.

Mr Bump said:
I certainly don't want any more HK or Chinese drifting in and out of this country.
We have them to thank for Coronavirus.
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Wuhan yeah! Except the people of HK don't really deserve this shafting at all. They were promised something entirely different.
On the other part of your statement I fully agree - no more chicoms should be ever allowed in till they change their ways.

I strongly support this government action, and in fact they should replicate also what Trump just did, ie. removing special status of HK for trade reasons. It won't be easy ride but we will come out better off and hopefully the dragon will fall just as quickly as it rose.
 
Earley Man said:
Possibly true, but many of us will be far more unhappy that these people have been left at the 'mercy' of Marxist China. I speak from personal experience, between 1968 and 1977 I sailed on tankers which carried as part of the crew four Hong Kong Chinese, two fitters and two pumpmen.

A lot of them had escaped from mainland China after the Marxists took over and still bore the marks of the injuries and wounds they had received from the 'Peoples Army'.
Click to expand...


do you think china is the same country as it was in the 70's?
 
AshleyC said:
do you think china is the same country as it was in the 70's?
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No I don't, I think that is is worse than it was then and rapidly going back to the absolute rule of terror of Mao Zedong.

Since Xi Jinping took over in 2012 he has wiped out any challenges to his power, removing any rivals by instigating "corruption investigations", centralised the main power centres of the Party into his hands and created his own personality cult.

This isn't just my opinion. Here's quote from Wikipedia. "Xi's political thoughts have been written into the party and state constitutions and a cult of personality has developed around him. Xi has been labelled a "dictator" by some political observers, citing an increase of censorship and mass surveillance, deterioration in human rights and the removal of term limits for the Presidency under his tenure.

Have you not heard of the fact that under his rule two groups of half tide rocks have been converted into fortified islands and that maps have been published in China which show that the whole of the South China Sea is Chinese territory.

Lastly do you think that the "re-education camps" that nearly a million Uyghurs have been incarcerated in during Xi Jinping's rule are some form of Butlin's holiday camp? The Uyghurs are there as part of a systematic destruction of their way of life because they will not follow Xi Jinping's leadership.
 
well i can only speak from my real life experience of the country and the stories my other half told me of her and her family living through china in the 70's , rather than the wealth of knowledge you have gained from wiki. And i use the word wealth in the same way you use the word Loads to describe a couple of people.

But, "No I don't, I think that is is worse than it was then and rapidly going back to the absolute rule of terror of Mao Zedong. "

You dont know a thing about the country. But stick to wiki.
 
AshleyC said:
well i can only speak from my real life experience of the country and the stories my other half told me of her and her family living through china in the 70's , rather than the wealth of knowledge you have gained from wiki. And i use the word wealth in the same way you use the word Loads to describe a couple of people.

But, "No I don't, I think that is is worse than it was then and rapidly going back to the absolute rule of terror of Mao Zedong. "

You dont know a thing about the country. But stick to wiki.
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So both I and Wiki are totally wrong, despite, to name three of the examples I quoted, freely available photographs of both the Spratly and Paracel islands being militarised, testimony of Uyghurs who have managed to escape from the "re-education" camps and the current and ongoing ending of the democratic status of Hong Kong?

Do you likewise think that "Uncle Joe Stalin." was the wonderful ruler that all the Russians greatly loved? Xi Jinping is cast in the same mould as Stalin, Hitler and all of the other dictators who have gone before him.

Finally if you think I don't know anything, read Chris Patten's, who surely does know at least something about China having been the last Governor of Hong Kong, comments on Reuters about the situation in China and why Xi Jinping is acting in the way he is.
 
Realistically Hong Kong should probably have had the chance to choose in the 90's (pre-1997) what they wanted to be; A: Independent (Like Singapore), B: Remain British or C: Become part of China... I suspect they would have voted to stay British but god knows what would have happened but we all know China would never have allowed the vote let along the result!
 
chrism_scotland said:
Realistically Hong Kong should probably have had the chance to choose in the 90's (pre-1997) what they wanted to be; A: Independent (Like Singapore), B: Remain British or C: Become part of China... I suspect they would have voted to stay British but god knows what would have happened but we all know China would never have allowed the vote let along the result!
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As far as remember at the time of the hand over HK rich and industrialists wanted to buy the colony. I don't think China wanted to sell.
 
China now and then... The mainstream news has reported a host of what could be described as crimes against humanity, I suppose we can all list at least some of them. There was a documentary or maybe just a news item not so long ago in which they tried to ask locals about Tiananmen Square which is in the process of being seemingly erased from history 1984 style. And then there's the bullying of their neighbours and what they're up to in the south China sea.

Of course all this western news could be lies and propaganda? Maybe not. Maybe the Chinese regime is one of the most vial and dangerous on the planet.
 
AshleyC said:
do you think china is the same country as it was in the 70's?
Click to expand...

In many ways worse, far more advanced and more prepared to terrorise its own people while flexing the dragon wing muscle abroad. Now they are threatening to occupy Taiwan:
https://www.newsweek.com/china-military-force-taiwan-diplomacy-1507263 (give up or we will use military force)... How liberal and loving.

chrism_scotland said:
Realistically Hong Kong should probably have had the chance to choose in the 90's (pre-1997) what they wanted to be; A: Independent (Like Singapore), B: Remain British or C: Become part of China... I suspect they would have voted to stay British but god knows what would have happened but we all know China would never have allowed the vote let along the result!
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You may remember there was a treaty signed long ago describing what would happen with HK over next 150 years (we are in the last 27). You would be right arguing such treaty should never exist, and a lot of things done in China over 100 years ago should have never been done. And of course the treaties only apply to parties that follow the rule of law, in which case only the UK.
 
Offer doesn't equal approve, I suspect they will still need to go through the same requirements/points systems.

AFAIK, people who got these passports are people who work in government, people with skills, CID officers, or people with degrees, qualifications and money. They are not your factory workers or office cleaners (not that there is anything wrong with that). So any British who thinks more foreigners coming to take their jobs, those people are likely to be less skilled than these Passport holders. They wouldn't want to come take their jobs because they would be over qualified.

We would essentially taking some of the cream of the crop.
 
Mr Bump said:
I think we should butt out of the China business, we knew what they would do when we handed it back.
I certainly don't want any more HK or Chinese drifting in and out of this country.
We have them to thank for Coronavirus.
Click to expand...

Yeah and the Brits for the Famine.
 
The treaty should have been abrogated, as it was with the Emperor not the post-1949 rulers. HK should have been given British Overseas Territory status instead of being a colony. A deal could have been done that was better, but there was always the threat of the PLA marching in just like the Japanese did in 1942. In 1966 we were on 24 hour alert with bags packed for evacuation precisely because of that threat, during the Cultural Revolution.
However, HK never had democracy - the British didn't give it. Fat Pang (Patten) did manage to give a little bit of power to the people but was hamstrung by the UK establishment - his heart was clearly in the right place. It saddens me so much to see the chickens coming home to roost now. If more was given sooner by the British, as in Singapore, history would have been very different I think.
I think the UK would benefit from more HK'ers coming here, but I suspect most would still prefer Canada and Australia, where they are valued.
 
Lindsay56 said:
The treaty should have been abrogated, as it was with the Emperor not the post-1949 rulers. HK should have been given British Overseas Territory status instead of being a colony. A deal could have been done that was better, but there was always the threat of the PLA marching in just like the Japanese did in 1942. In 1966 we were on 24 hour alert with bags packed for evacuation precisely because of that threat, during the Cultural Revolution.
However, HK never had democracy - the British didn't give it. Fat Pang (Patten) did manage to give a little bit of power to the people but was hamstrung by the UK establishment - his heart was clearly in the right place. It saddens me so much to see the chickens coming home to roost now. If more was given sooner by the British, as in Singapore, history would have been very different I think.
I think the UK would benefit from more HK'ers coming here, but I suspect most would still prefer Canada and Australia, where they are valued.
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I agree. Interesting that you say most HK (Chinese) would prefer Canada or Australia to the UK. In my recollection (1970s) it was the US. My wife had a couple of Chinese friends in her class at school in Edinburgh, and they both moved to the US with their families in the late 70s or early 80s too.

Has the preference changed? I know it's quite difficult to get permanent residence in the US now, but is this one of the reasons?
 
I should correct - I don't know where most Chinese HK'ers would prefer to go, but I do know an awful lot went to Oz and Canada just prior to and following 97. Maybe not most though, I've no idea.
 
Maybe the weather and/or a perception that you can have better lifestyle is a big draw to the US, Canada and the Australia? That certainly seems to be the view among many Brits many of whom would be off to these countries if they had the chance so why should the HK be any different.

Whatever. I do think the UK has its charms :D

Radio 5 this morning had friendly noises from the government about looking at immigration and fast tracking. Lets hope it happens. I have no fears about large numbers of HK coming to the UK and I hope the wider public share my view.

I do have issues with the immigration process that Mrs WW is going through. It is IMO at times irrelevant and at others a pita. The whole system does I think need looking at.
 
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