Budget full frame setup?

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CharlKell

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Charles
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Hi guys,

Just finished my uni degree and looking for a budget setup (under £650) for portraiture photography. I was going to get a Sony a7r ii but people are selling them for a little too much for me.
I’ve found an ad for a Sony a7 with its kit lens (28-70mm 3.5/5.6) and a viltrox lens (85mm 1.8) with adapter for canon lenses. He’d sell it to me for £600 and though the camera is well used it seems to be in great physical condition. What do you guys think of this deal?

If its not good, does anyone know of a good setup for less than £650?

Thanks
 
Hi, I will get the ball rolling.... Nikon D610 plus Nikon 24-120 f4 should be available used within your budget, may even stretch to include a nifty 50mm older manual focus.

Personally I have no experience of Sony so I will leave that to others to comment.
 
I think the Sony deal looks good. An A7 and kit lens would probably cost you £600 or more so the 85mm is icing on the cake.

I've had the original A7 since it first came out and I think the only real weakness is that the focus tracking isn't up to fast action. Other than that I think it has real advantages over a traditional DSLR. I also have but hardly use the 28-70mm kit lens and I think for the spec and money it's a good lens. Personally I'd rather have a 35mm f1.8 than the 85mm but that's a personal choice.
 
I'd go with Steve's choice, but instead of a 50mm prime (though a good choice), would go for an 85mm. The AFS 85 1.8G is a great lens for the money at around £200.00 this would leave you £450.00 to pick up a low shutter count 610.
 
Sky said:
No good for portraits though - unless you want to post distorted 'big nose' pics. :ROFLMAO:
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Sorry but what a ridiculous comment this is. You're better than this or at least you should be.

A 35mm isn't much use for a tight head shot but then again for an environmental shot with context with an 85mm you're possibly going to be a short bus ride away. It all depends what shot you're taking.
 
benc98 said:
Just had a quick look on flickr, there is a group on there called 35mm Portraits (full frame) https://www.flickr.com/groups/35mmlensportraits/pool/ the photos look alright to me in terms of distoration. I guess it's knowing how (or not) to use it
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Er...Yes :D

Whisper it... You can even use a 20mm or wider lens for a people shot, just as long as you realise what you're doing and the sort of shot you want.
 
woof woof said:
A 35mm isn't much use for a tight head shot but then again for an environmental shot with context with an 85mm you're possibly going to be a short bus ride away.
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Exactly - an environmental shot. Not what I call a portrait at all. :facepalm:

benc98 said:
Just had a quick look on flickr, there is a group on there called 35mm Portraits (full frame) https://www.flickr.com/groups/35mmlensportraits/pool/ the photos look alright to me in terms of distoration.
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It's a free world and whatever turns you on I suppose. Personally, I think they look awful and the many pictures of what I assume is his girlfriend only really work well to make her 'assets' appear a little larger.

Anyway, let's keep this on topic eh? This chap wants advice on what kit to buy, not read silly arguments about people's views on what they like and don't like. :ty:
 
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Sky said:
Exactly - an environmental shot. Not what I call a portrait at all.



It's a free world and whatever turns you on I suppose. Personally, I think they look awful and the many pictures of what I assume is his girlfriend only really work well to make her 'assets' appear a little larger.

Anyway, let's keep this on topic eh? This guy wants advice on what kit to buy, not read silly arguments about people's views on what they like and don't like. :ty:
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I'm not going to continue this with you Trevor as things can snowball and take the thread off topic but in my post I did state that this is a personal choice. I could probably count on my fingers the number of tight head shots I've taken in my life as I generally don't want to take that sort of picture but others do like them. I'd much rather have a half or full body picture and maybe even some context. It's a personal choice.

CharlKell said:
Guys I didn’t post this so you could have a petty argument about what a lens is or isn’t for.
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Indeed and the above is my last reply to Trevor on this.

It's difficult to know peoples levels of understanding and this is your first post so I can't know what level you are at. Assuming you're familiar with "FF" and focal lengths you can make your own mind up but I do think that the Sony package is well priced if you want the kit.

I will add that Canon lenses probably wont AF well on an original A7. They may be ok for static shots but tracking may not be up to anything.
 
I think the OP needs to make a few 'simple' decisions

First One - DSLR v Mirrorless - is this important??

Second One - Preferred Camera Brand and this should be driven by the availability of suitable lenses within the budget, do you need a zoom lens, or can you work with a single prime, 35/50/85 ??

I would use available glass to drive the solution, there is a lot to be said at this budget for going for something like a 50mm F1.4 (Sigma ART for instance) and putting it on a Canon 5D Mkii - this would give you a one lens solution that has a fast (wide aperture) lens. Don't be driven by bundles unless the bundle really includes the items that you will use.

The question is not 'is this a good deal' but what equipment do I actually want!
 
Here’s another question. I am currently not in NEED of a camera right now as I am not going to be using it professionally for the next 5 months (due to some surgery I’ll be having)

When I fully recover I will be getting a normal job for now to pay rent/bills/shopping etc etc for a new place living with my girlfriend, she owns a canon rp along with my 50mm 1.8 and 24-105 3.5/5.6. I could just be patient and use her camera to do some side photography work whilst I save up for the A7R ii (which I am quite set on due to resolution and incredibly sharp sensor) but I am very impatient, which is my downfall.

Should I just save and be patient or get a budget setup (same res as her camera) so I can use my own camera without having to borrow my gf’s and avoid colliding shoots?

I mean the answer is probs pretty obvious.. I didn’t even need to ask, I’m just impatient
 
CharlKell said:
Here’s another question. I am currently not in NEED of a camera right now as I am not going to be using it professionally for the next 5 months (due to some surgery I’ll be having)

When I fully recover I will be getting a normal job for now to pay rent/bills/shopping etc etc for a new place living with my girlfriend, she owns a canon rp along with my 50mm 1.8 and 24-105 3.5/5.6. I could just be patient and use her camera to do some side photography work whilst I save up for the A7R ii (which I am quite set on due to resolution and incredibly sharp sensor) but I am very impatient, which is my downfall.

Should I just save and be patient or get a budget setup (same res as her camera) so I can use my own camera without having to borrow my gf’s and avoid colliding shoots?

I mean the answer is probs pretty obvious.. I didn’t even need to ask, I’m just impatient
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IMO you need to be thinking lenses not camera bodies
 
CharlKell said:
Here’s another question. I am currently not in NEED of a camera right now as I am not going to be using it professionally for the next 5 months (due to some surgery I’ll be having)

When I fully recover I will be getting a normal job for now to pay rent/bills/shopping etc etc for a new place living with my girlfriend, she owns a canon rp along with my 50mm 1.8 and 24-105 3.5/5.6. I could just be patient and use her camera to do some side photography work whilst I save up for the A7R ii (which I am quite set on due to resolution and incredibly sharp sensor) but I am very impatient, which is my downfall.

Should I just save and be patient or get a budget setup (same res as her camera) so I can use my own camera without having to borrow my gf’s and avoid colliding shoots?

I mean the answer is probs pretty obvious.. I didn’t even need to ask, I’m just impatient
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What I try to do and what I'd recommend is that you start with the end picture you want to create and work back from that to decide your kit and your settings.

Sharing kit with your GF could be a help but if you're looking to shoot professionally can you rely on her kit to get you the results you want?

I could live with a 50mm f1.8 but I wouldn't be enamoured with a big fat variable aperture zoom. Other people may feel differently and see this as their dream set up :D

Good luck choosing :D
 
woof woof said:
What I try to do and what I'd recommend is that you start with the end picture you want to create and work back from that to decide your kit and your settings.

Sharing kit with your GF could be a help but if you're looking to shoot professionally can you rely on her kit to get you the results you want?

I could live with a 50mm f1.8 but I wouldn't be enamoured with a big fat variable aperture zoom. Other people may feel differently and see this as their dream set up :D

Good luck choosing :D
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Yeah don’t worry I know the other lens “isn’t” for portraiture hahaha
 
CharlKell said:
Yeah don’t worry I know the other lens “isn’t” for portraiture hahaha
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Actually just about any lens can be used for portraiture, its just that in recent times fast leness with good bokeh characteristics have become favoured by portrait photographers. Obviously there is a preference to avoid wide angle lenses as these can distort the features of the subject, and equally too long a telephoto can compress the subject features, hence most people work in the 50mm to 135mm range for portraits. You might be surpirised what you can achieve at 90-105mm with the 24-105mm lens, with the right background and in the right light you can get good results.

Since you won't 'need' the equipment for several months, I would spend some time really working out what you want from the photographs you are going take. Are these indoor/outdoor, with flash/without flash, etc, etc - What level of subject seperation are you looking at from the background, are you working with just head shots/half body/full body, What sort of lighting conditions are you going to be working with, etc etc.Then get the equipment you have slected, and practise with it, so you are ready to hit teh ground running in 5 months time.

Impatience is fine, we all love shiney stuff, but impatience can lead to buyers remorse and the purchase of the wrong kit, we have all been there!!!
 
I've owned a Nikon D610 as mentioned earlier, and now have a Sony A7III.

For portraits the D610 with something like the Samyang manual focus 85 f1.4 is great and very cost effective. Some will disagree, but I found the AF of that camera poor, especially in lower light, and not particularly accurate.

The A7 I have now is a much better camera, but is more expensive.

If you're planning to use this as a tool to make money then it's probably worth spending a bit more if you can, but the D610 option would be quite functional.
 
Thank you guys :) all great stuff!

Mr Perceptive said:
Actually just about any lens can be used for portraiture, its just that in recent times fast leness with good bokeh characteristics have become favoured by portrait photographers. Obviously there is a preference to avoid wide angle lenses as these can distort the features of the subject, and equally too long a telephoto can compress the subject features, hence most people work in the 50mm to 135mm range for portraits. You might be surpirised what you can achieve at 90-105mm with the 24-105mm lens, with the right background and in the right light you can get good results.
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A reason I don’t like that particular lens for it is only ‘cause I look for great detail which it never gave me much of. Probs due to it not being the L glass one.
Mr Perceptive said:
Impatience is fine, we all love shiney stuff, but impatience can lead to buyers remorse and the purchase of the wrong kit, we have all been there!!!
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And yeah, this is too true!

I’ve been comparing the A7 and D610 looking at the sample images side by side on the imaging-resource website, and on the dummy portraits the Nikon is looking not as defined and the skin looks flatter and less detailed too. Which as someone who wants to do portraits and headshots in great detail for hard editing detail is important for me.

I’m going to see the A7 camera bundle tonight so I’ll tell you guys how it goes. :)

Thanks everyone!
 
CharlKell said:
I’ve been comparing the A7 and D610 looking at the sample images side by side on the imaging-resource website, and on the dummy portraits the Nikon is looking not as defined and the skin looks flatter and less detailed too. Which as someone who wants to do portraits and headshots in great detail for hard editing detail is important for me
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For a guess I'd say that's likely down to the lens more than the camera body.

FWIW I had an early version of the viltrox 85 f1.8 and it renders beautifully but doesn't have as much super sharp detail and high contrast as some more modern lenses.
 
CharlKell said:
A reason I don’t like that particular lens for it is only ‘cause I look for great detail which it never gave me much of. Probs due to it not being the L glass one.
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If you are going to shoot professionally, its about what your clients want, not what you want (though obviously your 'style' might be why you get the job in the first place) - you might want to give that some thought!

Whats the final output for? Print/Web use/etc
 
Mr Perceptive said:
If you are going to shoot professionally, its about what your clients want, not what you want (though obviously your 'style' might be why you get the job in the first place) - you might want to give that some thought!

Whats the final output for? Print/Web use/etc
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Probably web but I have only just finished my degree and have no real plans for a business yet, so I am not sure.
 
Just a quick note on zooms.

I love them for travel: on crop I used a zeiss 16-80, for my D610 I had the Nikon 28-105 and now use the Sony G 24-105. However for portrait work a zoom would be my very least favourite because of the way they render - to *me* there's something about a hobbyist zoom in my hands that displeases me. They certainly work well for environmental stuff, but when photographing people if I have a choice then it's fast primes every time. I've seen some great portraits shot using 70-210 f2.8 zooms, but those seem to render quite differently to typical kit zooms, and I include the Sony G that I have in that category.

I'm not knocking anyone else's work, but since we're discussing this kind of thing, here's my experience & preference.
 
One thing I do dislike on some cameras like AFAIK the D600 is the 1/4,000 maximum shutter speed as when shooting with wide aperture lenses in good light it very likely means fiddling with ND's. I'd much rather stump up for a higher end model or just buy a different camera with a max shutter speed of 1/8,000 and have the freedom to shoot at whatever aperture I want without having to fiddle with ND's. 1//4,000 will be fine though if you're limited to slower lenses or lower light or just don't bother with wider apertures in good light.
 
If you are checking that a7 and since you said that it is well used then here’s a list of some issues to look out for

www.outsidetheshot.com

All of the Problems with the Sony A7

Glaringly obvious problems exist with the Sony A7. Most can be worked around or have solutions. The few remaining might send you running.
www.outsidetheshot.com www.outsidetheshot.com

The mount problem is easily fixed and I had zero issues with the used A7 I had.

Different colour output in jpeg from sony and nikon. Easy to tweak in post for raw if that bothers you.

One advantage of almost any MILC is that you can mount and use legacy lenses - tons of cheap 50’s out there. I think the samyangs and vitroxes etc are actually better at/near 80-135 for bright lenses than legacy lenses.

On the other hand, a host of good and relatively inexpensive AF-D and mf ai/ai-s nikkors for a d610 say.
 
After comparing higher end high res Nikon and Sony cameras, I decided to go for Sony in the future, and so I bought the Sony A7 deal, as then I would already have the 85mm lens for it, which I have quickly tested tonight (I’m not amazing lighting (high iso)) and I am super happy with it!! It’s in amazing condition and came with a grip too! Also the lens is the Mark II

Thanks to everyone for all the advice!! :)

5DA29156-A852-46D5-BFE0-8741A4425F61.jpeg3791C32F-D77A-468C-9DA8-B597714821A5.jpeg
 
Hope you're happy with your new kit.

Come back and post some pictures sometime :D
 
woof woof said:
Hope you're happy with your new kit.

Come back and post some pictures sometime :D
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Never mind that come join us on the Sony thread.

www.talkphotography.co.uk

The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

May very well look like this... http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/ Anyone interested? I've been looking forward to this coming out but I'm hard to please... 1. The rumour was it'd have IBIS, it hasn't got it. 2. It's not exactly pretty is it? To me it looks like someone glued it...
www.talkphotography.co.uk www.talkphotography.co.uk
 
As you already have canon lens why not a used 5d 2 or 3, I've seen both for under £600.
 
I'm pleased you've decided and I hope you get on well with the camera.
 
CharlKell said:
Hi guys,

Just finished my uni degree and looking for a budget setup (under £650) for portraiture photography. I was going to get a Sony a7r ii but people are selling them for a little too much for me.
I’ve found an ad for a Sony a7 with its kit lens (28-70mm 3.5/5.6) and a viltrox lens (85mm 1.8) with adapter for canon lenses. He’d sell it to me for £600 and though the camera is well used it seems to be in great physical condition. What do you guys think of this deal?

If its not good, does anyone know of a good setup for less than £650?

Thanks
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Too late now, but added in case others stumble across the thread.. for a budget portraiture setup you could do a lot worse than an OMD EM5 Mk1 and a 45mm f1.8 - should be £200-£250. It was a long time before I outgrew mine - and I still use it on occasion.
 
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