Buying an estate car to sleep on location in - stupid idea?

Andy Into The Wild

Andy Into The Wild

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I had a quick search on the forums and couldn't find this question answered - if it has already please point it in my direction :)

Anyway, I have no problem with the idea of driving for a few hours in the UK to get on location for a shoot, but what I can't quite work out is how to deal with getting the best light (sunset/sunrise) at a location say 4 hours drive away - you either have to pay a large amount of money to stay in 'real' accommodation, wild camp (which is not legal most places in the UK), or drive back after the shoot and get home in the early hours which isn't ideal.

I don't really have the funds to spend on a camper van for what is a very niche use, but I had the idea of buying an estate car and using that instead, sleeping in the back. I got the idea watching a Brendon Van Son video where he rents a car to sleep in.

Is this common for photographers, or even a good idea??

Andy
 
I have seen a few photographers use a small van and just put a mattress in the back. I think you would struggle with an estate car because the majority of them do not have seats that fold down totally flat. In my last two cars there has always been a difference in height between where the seats fold down and the floor of the boot.
 
Not a crazy idea, friend and I are going to take landscapes on Good Friday, we're leaving a 4am to catch the sunrise :eek:
 
I think you biggest problem regardless of vehicle is where you will be able to park up, as you say wild camping is not legal in the uk.
 
It’s an idea I’ve thought of too as long days landscape photography and early/late driving isn’t the safest activity (there was a case of a mountain leader hitting a cyclist recently where they were jailed for careless driving). For the odd night out of the way it wouldn’t be so bad but I do feel that the legality of it is like wild camping (not strictly legal but may be possible if out of the way and you leave not sign). Most areas where there are great landscapes usually have a good number of campsites which could be an option for cheaper accommodation. For cheap and easy accommodation I try looking for travelodges or premier inns, if booked early enough they can potentially be quite cheap split between two.

The problem with estates is finding one with as flat as possible floor with the seats down. Another problem is having a window slightly open to allow ventilation and stop condensation occurring. You can get those wind guards for the front windows. Personally I’m thinking a car or camper is actually easier to spot than a tent is if you are tucked away somewhere. I have heard of people going with a normal panel van as a ‘secret camper’, it’s difficult to say someone is sleeping inside an enclosed panel van compared to an estate or camper with windows.
 
would you not be better off with something like a Ford Transit Panel Van?
 
I've wild camped in a camper van all over the UK for the last 17 years and never ever been moved on. I also use my car (a small SUV) when I'm on my own, it's even easier in a car to blend in. It's legal to wild camp almost anywhere in Scotland except around Loch Lomond and the Trossachs. It's legal to camp on almost all of unenclosed Dartmoor if you arrive by foot to the desired location and permission exists at a couple of locations in the Brecon Beacons. Powys allows free overnight parking for motorhomes in most of the town car parks such as Hay on Wye. Elsewhere It is technically illegal, but the Police really have other things to worry about than somebody discreetly sleeping in a vehicle, which all long distance truck drivers are doing as well. I'll park in loop laybys, car parks that aren't signed as prohibited and often, pubs are happy to give permission if you buy a meal there. The one thing I never do is drink alcohol when parked in a public place, being 'Drunk in Charge of a Vehicle' is obviously potentially a very serious matter. On the odd occasion I will move myself on if I find the local boy racers turn up to near where I've parked.

There's plenty of videos on Youtube about people using cars as small as a Peaugot 205 to camp in and how they do it. An estate car would be ideal but just needs some imagination on how to flatten out the available space. In my car the passenger seat is moved forward and a storage box goes upside down in the rear footwell. I use some old motorhome seats as the mattress and it's very comfortable for one person.
 
Thanks for all the replies!

rob-nikon said:
The problem with estates is finding one with as flat as possible floor with the seats down. Another problem is having a window slightly open to allow ventilation and stop condensation occurring. You can get those wind guards for the front windows. Personally I’m thinking a car or camper is actually easier to spot than a tent is if you are tucked away somewhere. I have heard of people going with a normal panel van as a ‘secret camper’, it’s difficult to say someone is sleeping inside an enclosed panel van compared to an estate or camper with windows.
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Hmm I hadn't thought of ventilation - good point. I'm not amazingly fussy so I was thinking if I can get an airbed in the back, I can probably get away with it if it's not 100% flat.

Antony hayward said:
would you not be better off with something like a Ford Transit Panel Van?
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Possibly for this specific use, but an estate would be much more practical in the city.

HarveyM said:
I've wild camped in a camper van all over the UK for the last 17 years and never ever been moved on. I also use my car (a small SUV) when I'm on my own, it's even easier in a car to blend in. It's legal to wild camp almost anywhere in Scotland except around Loch Lomond and the Trossachs. It's legal to camp on almost all of unenclosed Dartmoor if you arrive by foot to the desired location and permission exists at a couple of locations in the Brecon Beacons. Powys allows free overnight parking for motorhomes in most of the town car parks such as Hay on Wye. Elsewhere It is technically illegal, but the Police really have other things to worry about than somebody discreetly sleeping in a vehicle, which all long distance truck drivers are doing as well. I'll park in loop laybys, car parks that aren't signed as prohibited and often, pubs are happy to give permission if you buy a meal there. The one thing I never do is drink alcohol when parked in a public place, being 'Drunk in Charge of a Vehicle' is obviously potentially a very serious matter. On the odd occasion I will move myself on if I find the local boy racers turn up to near where I've parked.

There's plenty of videos on Youtube about people using cars as small as a Peaugot 205 to camp in and how they do it. An estate car would be ideal but just needs some imagination on how to flatten out the available space. In my car the passenger seat is moved forward and a storage box goes upside down in the rear footwell. I use some old motorhome seats as the mattress and it's very comfortable for one person.
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Great to hear some first hand experience...my thoughts exactly about police not worrying too much about someone sleeping in a car. I guess they'd just move you on anyway if they were so inclined. It would only be for 1 person so I wouldn't mind roughing it for 1 night! I will check youtube for inspiration :)
 
(Oh I forgot to mention the rear windows in the Honda are all tinted as standard - so you get a bit of privacy)
 
Look for a Mitsubishi l400 delica . £1500 will get you a good one and the best wagon I've ever bought .
 
My bestest pal does a lot of hill running all over England, Scotland and Wales. He regularly goes away for a few days at a time and uses a Vauxhall Astra van. He claims insurance for private use is cheap as chips - once HD found a company that would cover him.
 
How about using the YHA, they are not crazy expensive and gave some nice venues.
Another idea is using camping barns and bothies, even heard of churches allowng campers to kip in the mfor a small charge.

Seen a few nice little campers based on Berlingo and Kangoo vans, not too pricy either
 
I've camped in my B6 Passat estate a few nights in Switzerland and Scotland last year. I bought a 1.90x1.00m foam mattress and it was great. The seats don't fold totally flat but you can just stick some jacket underneath to straighten it out and park slightly downhill. Job done. Temperature wise I was perfectly happy up to +5 at night. Anything less and you may want a much better duvette than I had.

Other estates that may suit you would be BMW 5 series, Mondeo, Volvo XC90, V70, VW Touareg, Audi Q7.

I would now never even think about the crazy idea of setting up a bloody tent.
 
Volvo V70 is biggest estate I had! It’s great! And reliable

Mondeo estate isn’t much smaller! I’m only 5’6 and have slept in a Kia ceed! It was tight but I’ve done a weekend in there in Glencoe
 
Phil V said:
I think Dave @DG Phototraining does this?
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Did - but not nearly as often as I thought I would :(

The car was just big enough (Passat estate) but getting into a sleeping bag was bloody awkward and getting dressed while on full view was interesting :D

The killer though was that the first hint of light and I woke up, so really early and felt knackered most of the day as a result

I've replaced that car now and won't be doing it again - even a poxy tent is better

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
Did - but not nearly as often as I thought I would :(

The car was just big enough (Passat estate) but getting into a sleeping bag was bloody awkward and getting dressed while on full view was interesting :D

The killer though was that the first hint of light and I woke up, so really early and felt knackered most of the day as a result

I've replaced that car now and won't be doing it again - even a poxy tent is better

Dave
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But he’s going out for sunrise so awake and out before light! It’s my fave time of day as well so blackened out didn’t matter to me
 
I've done it on occaision (Mondeo estate) but now have a VW Transporter. I'm average height and the Mondeo was only just big enough but it's certainly possible.As for where to camp, anywhere really there are very few traffic wardens around at 10pm or 5am.
 
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I don't know how clever it is in the UK as it is so small but many
years I had a van for my work in Canada. All the gear had its
place and there was a small single bed and a little table. Trips
had be planned and could last up to a month in average… that
saved a lot of money.
 
Alyn Wallace did this in his latest video as he was on a "shoe string budget" as he called it in Italy shooting the dolomites. It did make me think about doing the same, much cheaper than getting a hotel or whatever.

 
Daniel_Paul said:
Alyn Wallace did this in his latest video as he was on a "shoe string budget" as he called it in Italy shooting the dolomites. It did make me think about doing the same, much cheaper than getting a hotel or whatever.

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The best thing is you wake up right in the desired location and can start shooting right away. Morning light is not an issue because you are going to be photographing it anyway!
 
How often do you go away - Surely its not too bad to get a cheap hotel and just get up quite early?
 
I started out sleeping in the back of Morris Traveller. Although it was an esrtate car of sorts i found it more comfortable to sleep across the back seat and have my camping gaz stove in the rear compartment. I then progressed to a Ford Escort estate (ditto) and then a tiny single bed camper van. Then a slightly bigger camper (a Romahome, based on a cirroen C15 van) for the last 10 years or so I have a VW T5 officially converted into a camper. So I have plenty of experience!

In my opinion there's absolutely nothing that can beat waking up on the spot first thing in the morning, and there's no better way of doing that than with a camper van. But if you can't afford a camper an estate car may be the next best thing. Finding a "cheap hotel" (do they really exist?) or B&B is a very poor second because it might be miles away and meal times are often just when you want to be out in the landscape.

One thing anyone trying this out need NOT worry about is getting pulled up by the police for sleeping in a layby or out-of-the-way car park. It just about never ever happens. In all that time it has only happened to me twice and that was on a National Trust car park both times. If it does happen you can mumble apologies and move on.

I have on occasion had problems with lads turning up in their cars after pub closing time and parking nearby. It tends to happen in areas close to larger towns, and can feel threatening. These days if it happens I tend to move on myself.

The worst night I ever had was on a car park on the dogging circuit, I eventually realised. What I think were vigilantes turned up and cleared all the cars off. Some guy parked nearby, walked over to my van and banged hard on the window, I was really scared!
 
cambsno said:
How often do you go away - Surely its not too bad to get a cheap hotel and just get up quite early?
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I'd like to be able to get away at least once a month so it would get a bit pricey to stay in places at £50-£100 a pop for a night. Also, the thing I really enjoy about photography other than the technical and artistic aspect of it is the peace and quiet I get, and I feel like staying in places might detract from that.

Also, as I'm currently sharing a car with my girlfriend we need a 2nd car anyway to avoid her being marooned at home while I go away, so might aswell get something I can use in the field.
 
jerry12953 said:
I started out sleeping in the back of Morris Traveller. Although it was an esrtate car of sorts i found it more comfortable to sleep across the back seat and have my camping gaz stove in the rear compartment. I then progressed to a Ford Escort estate (ditto) and then a tiny single bed camper van. Then a slightly bigger camper (a Romahome, based on a cirroen C15 van) for the last 10 years or so I have a VW T5 officially converted into a camper. So I have plenty of experience!

In my opinion there's absolutely nothing that can beat waking up on the spot first thing in the morning, and there's no better way of doing that than with a camper van. But if you can't afford a camper an estate car may be the next best thing. Finding a "cheap hotel" (do they really exist?) or B&B is a very poor second because it might be miles away and meal times are often just when you want to be out in the landscape.

One thing anyone trying this out need NOT worry about is getting pulled up by the police for sleeping in a layby or out-of-the-way car park. It just about never ever happens. In all that time it has only happened to me twice and that was on a National Trust car park both times. If it does happen you can mumble apologies and move on.

I have on occasion had problems with lads turning up in their cars after pub closing time and parking nearby. It tends to happen in areas close to larger towns, and can feel threatening. These days if it happens I tend to move on myself.

The worst night I ever had was on a car park on the dogging circuit, I eventually realised. What I think were vigilantes turned up and cleared all the cars off. Some guy parked nearby, walked over to my van and banged hard on the window, I was really scared!
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Scary at the time but that's a great anecdote :)
 
I 've done this a few times a year for a good while while ( nothing to do with photography), you have to make sure the car has a flat floor ( unless you want to adapt it and make sure the seats come fully out to give you max room,and of course it is long enough. In recent years I have taken a fold out bed but have also used air beds. You will also have to pick your spot if in the bigger cities and if doing it in winter you will need some good gear.
 
Buy a panel van and convert it.

It needn't cost a fortune to source or convert.

I'm in the middle of converting a LWB Movano which we bought for less than the price of a decent 2nd hand estate car.

And don't worry about free camping. I've not been moved on.
 
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There’s a lady on Facebook who converted a Berlingo specifically for this purpose, I can try to find her if you’d like.... and the Toyota Verso have complete lie flat seats which could make life easier too
 
dcash29 said:
Ford Mondeo estate
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Theres getting on for 6 foot length but theres not much room really, time you get your kit in and not much head room.
To be honest your better off with a van, people can see inside a car, if they see you kipping you'll probably either get idiots banging on the sides or the police around.
A transit has a load of room in the back. If your thinking of converting it get it done by a specialist company. I'm told home madeconversations can't get insurance these days without loads of tests.
Wild camping is getting very popular, provided you arrive late, don't light a roaring fire and keep your head down chances are you'll be fine.
 
I know of people who have put an air bed i the back of a MINI Clubman in the past so it can be done. Having said that I had a mate who slept in is classic Mini as he thought the gates to the showground had been locked it turned out they hadn't!!

I must admit I keep looking at hiring a camper van for a week to go off an do of landscapes just need the time!
 
cambsno said:
How often do you go away - Surely its not too bad to get a cheap hotel and just get up quite early?
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Cheap hotel in Switzerland and a short 2.5 hour drive up the mountain for a sunrise, and a missed breakfast. Yeah, sure. :)
 
I spent many a night sleeping in the back of an estate car (mostly Astras) when fishing away from home for twenty or more years. There's plenty of room if you plan it out. With a decent doss bag and some foam it's like home from home. :D

I've slept in lay-bys, car parks and entrances to fields. Only been approached by the cops once, and when I explained why I was there they left me alone. Boy racers and potheads are the most likely annoyances. If you park up after dark and move on early there's less chance of hassle.

Windows misting up is a problem and leaving a window lightly open doesn't do much to solve it. Being seen getting dressed in the morning is easily overcome by not getting undressed the night before!

chub1902092-740950.jpg
 
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