Camera shake - shutter or me?

[ejm]

Hi all
I decided to dabble with some day time long exposures. I haven't used my camera for a while (whoops) so I am not sure if it is me that has cocked up, or if there is something I have overlooked. I used to do long exposures at night and get crisp images but I don't think I used this lens... Anyway, I am remotely setting the camera off using the WMU app so nothing is touching the camera, but the shutter is dead loud on this lens, is it shaking itself? Is there anything I can do? I have attached the 2 images, one showing the least shaky one, and the other which shows the majority of my shots tonight.
Thank you!

Nikon D750
Tamron 70-300
f32, 20 secs

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

You could try locking up the mirror.
Any movement will be exaggerated when using a longer lens.

 

[GreenNinja67]

Well you're not doing yourself any favours shooting at f32 for a start. Diffraction will be softening the image terribly.

Are you using mirror up mode? This will decrease camera shake.

Not sure why you're using this lens for a long exposure in daylight either? Were you just testing the slow shutter mode?

Also I'd be more concerned about getting your sensor cleaned, it's filthy and shooting at f32 will show up any dirt.

 

[ejm]

You could try locking up the mirror.
Any movement will be exaggerated when using a longer lens.

Thank you - I will look into this!

Well you're not doing yourself any favours shooting at f32 for a start. Diffraction will be softening the image terribly.

Are you using mirror up mode? This will decrease camera shake.

Not sure why you're using this lens for a long exposure in daylight either? Were you just testing the slow shutter mode?

Also I'd be more concerned about getting your sensor cleaned, it's filthy and shooting at f32 will show up any dirt.

I tried everything from f20 all the way to f32, as from what I read it recommended the lens was wide open but not all the way to the upper limits (hence trying from f20 all the way to 32)
No I am not using mirror up mode, I shall look into this.
Agreed its not the lens of choice I would opt for if I was doing this properly, but I got my nd filters today so I just grabbed the first lens that had the filter holder on and worked with that.
My sensor I think is ok? I think what you see if the reflection of the window and the dried raindrops from earlier (again I was in a hurry to try the filters so I just shot thro a window).

 

[zendog]

Wide open is the largest aperture you can get. Something like f4 probably.

F32 is the smallest aperture.

 

[tijuana taxi]

Wide open is the largest aperture you can get. Something like f4 probably.

F32 is the smallest aperture.

Beat me to it, exactly what I was about to write

 

[rob-nikon]

Are you using a tripod? Got image stabilisation on the lens switched on (if it has it)? What focal length was it shot at?

It could camera movement. The shutter noise shouldnt be any different lens to lens as the shutter is part of the camera and not the lens.

 

[ejm]

u

Wide open is the largest aperture you can get. Something like f4 probably.

F32 is the smallest aperture.

ugh god I always get it the wrong way round! The article said about having most of the image in focus, so I needed the larger numbers anyway, to keep the majority of the image in focus. I will tone it down though and give that a try when my battery has charged.

 

[ejm]

Are you using a tripod? Got image stabilisation on the lens switched on (if it has it)? What focal length was it shot at?

It could camera movement. The shutter noise shouldnt be any different lens to lens as the shutter is part of the camera and not the lens.

yes using a tripod. and yes I'm talking real dribble tonight, 3 hours on the m6 crawling does that to me haha im not sure what it is but the shutter seems awfully loud with this one lens...I tried manually focussing and that helped a tad (I think that the slightly clearer photo was the locked focus).

 

[Fuji Dave]

Aperture always gets me, so how I think now is... Small number big hole, big number small hole.

 

[ejm]

Aperture always gets me, so how I think now is... Small number big hole, big number small hole.

Glad its not just me . Thats great advice, Ill remember that!!

 

[Cockney]

Why are you taking pictures of a clothes line?

 

[StephenM]

Just remember that apertures are usually written as f/2, f/16 etc. to indicate a fraction. What of and why don't matter here; all you have to remember is that 1 sixteenth of a cake is a smaller portion than half a cake.

 

[Box Brownie]

Plus the lens is AFAIK without a tripod collar, so expecting the tripod to hold to solidly steady without a mirror shock vibrating it is IMO a vain hope especially if used at the 300mm end.

Such a mirror shock vibration will be mitigated by using Mirror Lock Up (MLU)..................but then there is also the potential for shutter shock having a small effect?

 

[LeeRatters]

Could be a number of things. Not a very clear example....

Camera movement?
Shutter/mirror release?
Aperture choice doesn't help for a sharp image.
Shooting through a window.
Was the tripod on floorboards? Did you shift weight or someone walk past while shooting?

I've never shot at f/20 let alone f/32!!

 

[GreenNinja67]

F8, wider lens, on a tripod, mirror up mode and a cable release (or 10 second release timer).

Then at least you're giving yourself a fighting chance.

 

[rob-nikon]

Was the tripod on floorboards? Did you shift weight or someone walk past while shooting?

I hadn’t thought it was taken from inside. If it was on carpet it probably could have moved quite easily as it wouldn’t be a stable base.

 

[swanseamale47]

Are you using a tripod? Got image stabilisation on the lens switched on (if it has it)? What focal length was it shot at?

It could camera movement. The shutter noise shouldnt be any different lens to lens as the shutter is part of the camera and not the lens.

Most suggest switching this off it's its on a tripod.

 

[ejm]

Why are you taking pictures of a clothes line?

Fortunately it wasnt meant to be a "nice shot", I Was just experimenting with my new filters so i wasnt too fussed on this

Plus the lens is AFAIK without a tripod collar, so expecting the tripod to hold to solidly steady without a mirror shock vibrating it is IMO a vain hope especially if used at the 300mm end.

Such a mirror shock vibration will be mitigated by using Mirror Lock Up (MLU)..................but then there is also the potential for shutter shock having a small effect?

Yes there is no tripod collar, i was only using at 80mm, however it is one big chunky lens so i can see what you mean on the shaking. I do need to look into the MLU setting

Could be a number of things. Not a very clear example....
Camera movement?
Shutter/mirror release?
Aperture choice doesn't help for a sharp image.
Shooting through a window.
Was the tripod on floorboards? Did you shift weight or someone walk past while shooting?
I've never shot at f/20 let alone f/32!!

I have never shot at this either! Ive not shot many landscapes, most of my work is down at f2-4 scale! However my research recommended using the "higher end of the scale, but not all the way", I think the example was his lens went to f15 or something and he used f12

Interestingly the tripod was on the carpet, and although it was 2 bedrooms away i had 2 small children running around and resisting bedtime

F8, wider lens, on a tripod, mirror up mode and a cable release (or 10 second release timer).

Then at least you're giving yourself a fighting chance.

I shall try again tonight with my 15-30mm lens, and set it to f8 I was already using a tripd but i shall try a "proper" set up tonight in the garden on the slabs. I dont have a cable release I use the WMU app so there is no contact with the camera whatsoever.

THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR FEEDBACK! LOTS FOR ME TO TRY TONIGHT, THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE

 

[snerkler]

OK so a lot of what I'd say has already been stated.

Firstly when using a tripod it's always best to use mirror lockup, or have the camera in live view to avoid having mirrorslap, also IIRC correctly the D750 has electronic first curtain which would help avoid shutter shock. Both mirrorslap and shutter shock can cause vibration.

Secondly at f32 you will almost certainly have a large amount of diffraction, even at f20-22 you're going to get diffraction.

If you're shooting through a window this will degrade IQ

You mention using a filter, some of the cheap ones can reduce IQ quite a lot.


It's difficult to say for sure as the image is relatively small but it doesn't strike me as having camera shake tbh, it looks more like diffraction reducing IQ to my eyes plus maybe degradation from shooting through a window and filter.

Also, are you shooting raw or JPEG? and have you processed it?

 

[Ed Sutton]

It's difficult to say for sure as the image is relatively small but it doesn't strike me as having camera shake tbh,

Click on the thumbnail image. That one's deffo caused by movement.

 

[snerkler]

Click on the thumbnail image. That one's deffo caused by movement.

Haha, yeah that one definitely is. I should have read the first post properly and seen that there were two images and that the second was more representative

That'd be pretty extreme for shutter shock or mirror slap too. Probably the kids running around shaking the floor then I'd say

 

[ejm]

OK so a lot of what I'd say has already been stated.

Firstly when using a tripod it's always best to use mirror lockup, or have the camera in live view to avoid having mirrorslap, also IIRC correctly the D750 has electronic first curtain which would help avoid shutter shock. Both mirrorslap and shutter shock can cause vibration.

Secondly at f32 you will almost certainly have a large amount of diffraction, even at f20-22 you're going to get diffraction.

If you're shooting through a window this will degrade IQ

You mention using a filter, some of the cheap ones can reduce IQ quite a lot.


It's difficult to say for sure as the image is relatively small but it doesn't strike me as having camera shake tbh, it looks more like diffraction reducing IQ to my eyes plus maybe degradation from shooting through a window and filter.

Also, are you shooting raw or JPEG? and have you processed it?

I dont know if you can see the second photo? I have posted two, that appear large when clicked on on my computer, but with the qwerks of the internet it may not be the same at your end? Anyway, one is most definitely blurred, and its definitely motion blur NOT OOF, so the window issue isnt the problem here.
I will definitely be lookin at the mirror up settings tonight!
I am using Cokin filters, which were recommended on here many moons ago when i asked what filter system people recommended
PS I always shoot RAW.

 

[snerkler]

I dont know if you can see the second photo? I have posted two, that appear large when clicked on on my computer, but with the qwerks of the internet it may not be the same at your end? Anyway, one is most definitely blurred, and its definitely motion blur NOT OOF, so the window issue isnt the problem here.
I will definitely be lookin at the mirror up settings tonight!
I am using Cokin filters, which were recommended on here many moons ago when i asked what filter system people recommended
PS I always shoot RAW.

Yeah, Ed just pointed that out to me, and I've just edited my last post in response to Ed since you liked it. As I said on that, it looks far more than shutter shock/mirror slap to me, I've never seen it anywhere near that severe. I can only think it was your kids running around, it's amazing how much movement you see when using telephotos even with the slightest hint of vibration on the floor. When I was testing for front/back focus on my 150-600mm just me standing there breathing seemed enough to cause a bit of shake

 

[ejm]

Yeah, Ed just pointed that out to me, and I've just edited my last post in response to Ed since you liked it. As I said on that, it looks far more than shutter shock/mirror slap to me, I've never seen it anywhere near that severe. I can only think it was your kids running around, it's amazing how much movement you see when using telephotos even with the slightest hint of vibration on the floor. When I was testing for front/back focus on my 150-600mm just me standing there breathing seemed enough to cause a bit of shake

It must have been that then! I am gobsmacked how sensitive it is! I will try it out properly tonight on some slabs (outside!)...and I will be digging out my UWA and NOT using a stupid f number

 

[Giblets]

If you live in a reasonably modern house it is quite surprising how much the suspended floor moves even two bedrooms away. Try putting a glass of water on the floor and get the kids to jump about as before and watch for the ripples.

 

[ejm]

If you live in a reasonably modern house it is quite surprising how much the suspended floor moves even two bedrooms away. Try putting a glass of water on the floor and get the kids to jump about as before and watch for the ripples.

I am sure the children will love this experiment! Lesson learnt tho, it had never crossed my mind that the carpet and floorboards would have been the cause!

 

[woof woof]

It must have been that then! I am gobsmacked how sensitive it is! I will try it out properly tonight on some slabs (outside!)...and I will be digging out my UWA and NOT using a stupid f number

If you use a different focal length you'll get a picture that looks different to the one above so be sure you're getting the picture you want before you press the button

Also I may be wrong but it looks like there may be a dust bunny or two in your picture. If they're there they can be cloned out post capture and they may not show up if you shoot with a wider aperture.

I hope you're happier with the next picture

 

[ejm]

If you use a different focal length you'll get a picture that looks different to the one above so be sure you're getting the picture you want before you press the button

Also I may be wrong but it looks like there may be a dust bunny or two in your picture. If they're there they can be cloned out post capture and they may not show up if you shoot with a wider aperture.

I hope you're happier with the next picture

Thank you I will try a proper setup, on hard ground, NOT through a window and with my UWA Probably at 30mm as I think my cokin holder will cause vignetting at anything wider ... anyway I will share it on this post for feedback, and hopefully I will be happier
Really grateful for all the useful feedback

 

[Nawty]

Don’t bother with the filter, start minimalist and then add complexity/elements to see what they do.

If you start with everything thrown at it you won’t be able to deduce the cause/effect. One thing at a time..

 

[snerkler]

Also I may be wrong but it looks like there may be a dust bunny or two in your picture. If they're there they can be cloned out post capture and they may not show up if you shoot with a wider aperture.

I noticed that too but didn't want to kick him whilst he's down

 

[ejm]

I noticed that too but didn't want to kick him whilst he's down

...what is a dust bunny? As in (like a previous poster said) sensor dirt?
If its the grubbiness you are referring to, I think it is just because it was shot through a window that has recently been ravaged by rain and aggressive crows (like i said, this wasnt meant to be a winning shot, just a trial on using the filters ) here are 2 other photos taken within the same week on the same lens to give you an idea...however since I dont know what you are referring too there may well be dust bunnies on these too so please point them out so i can get rid of them

 

[Nick Birkett]

What tripod are you using? Inexpensive tripods are less stable and more subject to vibration and movement. Based on my experience with mirror shake, the effect you show in your second photo is more more extreme than can be explained by mirror effects, filters, etc.. As others have said, it is almost certainly due to some type of camera movement. With a 20 second exposure, an indvertant tripod movement is more likely - kids running by or you touching the tripod, etc.. Try testing it out with just the camera on a tripod on a solid outdoor location using a remote shutter release.

 

[ejm]

What tripod are you using? Inexpensive tripods are less stable and more subject to vibration and movement. Based on my experience with mirror shake, the effect you show in your second photo is more more extreme than can be explained by mirror effects, filters, etc.. As others have said, it is almost certainly due to some type of camera movement. With a 20 second exposure, an indvertant tripod movement is more likely - kids running by or you touching the tripod, etc.. Try testing it out with just the camera on a tripod on a solid outdoor location using a remote shutter release.

I cannot remember the exact model but it is a Manfrotto, cost well in excess of £100 (on offer) at the time I purchased it BUT it is carbon fibre (i was travelling a lot so wanted something light) i appreciate this isnt great lol... i was no where near the tripod at the time the photos were taken (in the next room supervising the manic 2 legged beings) - i use the nikon app on my phone to ensure there is no camera shake (!) so it means i can take remote photos from anywhere within the wifi availability - and there was no one else in the room or near it. I think it must be as a previous poster commented, the fact that its a new house and upstairs shakes more then you realise! Hopefully tonight i can put my mind at rest with some nice stable shots taken outside on concrete! It's peculiar because ive never had this issue before, i used to do a lot of night long exposures, but again, these were outside on stable ground and away from children and animals!

 

[snerkler]

...what is a dust bunny? As in (like a previous poster said) sensor dirt?
If its the grubbiness you are referring to, I think it is just because it was shot through a window that has recently been ravaged by rain and aggressive crows (like i said, this wasnt meant to be a winning shot, just a trial on using the filters ) here are 2 other photos taken within the same week on the same lens to give you an idea...however since I dont know what you are referring too there may well be dust bunnies on these too so please point them out so i can get rid of them

Dust bunnies are where you can see dust particles on the sensor. At wide apertures (small f numbers) you don't tend to see them due to the way physics of the way the light rays hit the sensor, but with smaller apertures (large f numbers) you start to see them. They usually appear as black or darker dots/blobs in the image. Here's some (not all ), although I'm not 100% sure the lowest one in the image is one or something else.

 

[ejm]

Dust bunnies are where you can see dust particles on the sensor. At wide apertures (small f numbers) you don't tend to see them due to the way physics of the way the light rays hit the sensor, but with smaller apertures (large f numbers) you start to see them. They usually appear as black or darker dots/blobs in the image. Here's some (not all ), although I'm not 100% sure the lowest one in the image is one or something else.

Ahh thanks for taking the time to do this! I will have a trial tonight, itll be interesting to see if its dust bunnies or dirty windows, because i usually shoot at around f2-4, so i wouldnt see them anyway! :-o
Oh the one at the bottom is the top of a mini trophy my car won, and its reflection in the other side of the window, that one definitely isnt a dust bunny !!

 

[snerkler]

Ahh thanks for taking the time to do this! I will have a trial tonight, itll be interesting to see if its dust bunnies or dirty windows, because i usually shoot at around f2-4, so i wouldnt see them anyway! :-o
Oh the one at the bottom is the top of a mini trophy my car won, and its reflection in the other side of the window, that one definitely isnt a dust bunny !!

Lol I meant the lowest one I'd marked, but I'm sure you knew that

 

[ejm]

Lol I meant the lowest one I'd marked, but I'm sure you knew that

OH!! yeh no im ashamed to say i thought you were referring to the big black splodge at the bottom! What is wrong with my brain this week?! (sorry!!)

 

[sk66]

This image looks like the head drooped during the exposure. IDT a few seconds of mirror/shutter shake would be that prominent in a 20sec exposure, and it appears to have a definitive start/stop to it.

 

[ejm]

Right! I have been out again for a quick trial using everyones advice! No shaking! Happy days!
Used the UWA, set to f/8! I did 12 exposures at 3 seconds long because my 6 (and a bit!) stop filters aren't enough to stop the light getting in and my goal is to do a lovely image with loooong floating clouds
I will be out again later, when its a bit darker, to try for a proper photo, and see if I can get longer exposures and smoother clouds!!
Genuinely thankful for everyones help on this!