Campaign for Critique

DG Phototraining said:
I'll stick with People & Portraits :)

Dave
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Perfect Dave (y) you'll be the first Critter to have specified people and portraits, you'll be the shining light in there :D
 
DG Phototraining said:
Just had a look in the People & Portraits forum and there are posts preceded by the word 'Critique' - are we just offering crit on those obviously asking for it or ANY ???

Dave
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Any thread in there Dave, it's all feedback and critique as a forum it's just that those that have selected that prefix have made a concerted effort to attract critique (y) but any and all threads in there are fair game, unless someone specifies no critique
 
MWHCVT said:
Any thread in there Dave, it's all feedback and critique as a forum it's just that those that have selected that prefix have made a concerted effort to attract critique (y) but any and all threads in there are fair game, unless someone specifies no critique
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Made my own 'badge' in my sig :D

Dave
 
MWHCVT said:
Any thread in there Dave, it's all feedback and critique as a forum it's just that those that have selected that prefix have made a concerted effort to attract critique (y) but any and all threads in there are fair game, unless someone specifies no critique
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Which brings me back to my earlier suggestion that it could be made necessary to select a prefix before a posting in the feedback section is submitted. This would give the author the option to receive critique or just to share their pictures in the appropriate section, it would also give the person commenting a bit more confidence that the critique/comments are going to be of use and accepted by the author.
Anyone any other thoughts on this?
 
I try and add crit as much as possible, however from my perspective I don't have the experience or technical knowledge that a lot of you more experienced members have. I simply look at it from how it looks to me, is there something that draws me in or distracts or doesn't appear to work. I will always say why I do/don't like it. Where I struggle is knowing what to add remove, to make it work. I commit to giving views and opinions, ( I promise no "nice shots"), however I may not always be able to say, "if you did this". I know this may not be the sort of constructive crit you may want, but I will try my best.
 
DG Phototraining said:
Made my own 'badge' in my sig :D

Dave
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Love it (y)

Trev4 said:
Which brings me back to my earlier suggestion that it could be made necessary to select a prefix before a posting in the feedback section is submitted. This would give the author the option to receive critique or just to share their pictures in the appropriate section, it would also give the person commenting a bit more confidence that the critique/comments are going to be of use and accepted by the author.
Anyone any other thoughts on this?
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Indeed it does Trev, I'm sure that the green team are stalking this thread, with any hope some of the suggestions made within might get taken up, I can certainly see the benefit of mandated prefix' as we discussed earlier in the thread (y)

ChrisHeathcote said:
I try and add crit as much as possible, however from my perspective I don't have the experience or technical knowledge that a lot of you more experienced members have. I simply look at it from how it looks to me, is there something that draws me in or distracts or doesn't appear to work. I will always say why I do/don't like it. Where I struggle is knowing what to add remove, to make it work. I commit to giving views and opinions, ( I promise no "nice shots"), however I may not always be able to say, "if you did this". I know this may not be the sort of constructive crit you may want, but I will try my best.
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Chris, that's all anyone will as is to do what your comfortable with and to be honest what your aiming to do is more than acceptable to everyone I'm sure, you don't have to know the ins and outs of everything to be able to help so if you see something you like great say all about it, likewise just because you may not be sure how you'd fix it if you see something you don't like you should still say it because it fair to say someone here will have an idea to help fix the issue and the added bonus it that if they can then help on fixing the issue you may also gain experience from that (y) that's the beauty of quality critique it's a learning experience for more than just the OP
 
ancient_mariner said:
Probably landscapes, urban & architecture. Those feel more natural places to comment.
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Perfect Toni, I'll add you onto our critters list (y) I'm really pleased to see this growing its give hope to the success of the campaign I know it's going to be a long and probably hard road but its got to be travelled (y)
 
Ha - already encountered my first 'problem' - many people don't post just one shot or even one type of shot for critique, and there's no way I'm going through 6-10+ on just one thread that all require different advice; also, some have already had 10 or more posts where there may be little new to add

I'll look again for new posts from tomorrow though - night all :)

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
Ha - already encountered my first 'problem' - many people don't post just one shot or even one type of shot for critique, and there's no way I'm going through 6-10+ on just one thread that all require different advice; also, some have already had 10 or more posts where there may be little new to add

I'll look again for new posts from tomorrow though - night all :)

Dave
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I agree anymore than 3 photos really makes it hard work to over highly details critique night my fellow critter :LOL:
 
Can't be bothered anymore. Too many t***s about.

I was encouraged at one point when a mod sent me a PM thanking me for my input. However some t*** named Richard had a go at me in a thread after I gave my opinion on a couple of pics. I thanked him for his unwelcome input and called him Dick. I thhan received infractions from another mod. So I'll be buggered if I delve in to the un-answered posts again.....I don't even know where it is anymore.
 
On the Huh said:
Can't be bothered anymore. Too many collection of lady gardens about.

I was encouraged at one point when a mod sent me a PM thanking me for my input. However some bajingo named Richard had a go at me in a thread after I gave my opinion on a couple of pics. I thanked him for his unwelcome input and called him schwingschwong. I thhan received infractions from another mod. So I'll be buggered if I delve in to the un-answered posts again.....I don't even know where it is anymore.
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Erm... What?
 
schwingschwong was an alternatative name for Richard BTW.
 
MWHCVT said:
Chris, that's all anyone will as is to do what your comfortable with and to be honest what your aiming to do is more than acceptable to everyone I'm sure, you don't have to know the ins and outs of everything to be able to help so if you see something you like great say all about it, likewise just because you may not be sure how you'd fix it if you see something you don't like you should still say it because it fair to say someone here will have an idea to help fix the issue and the added bonus it that if they can then help on fixing the issue you may also gain experience from that (y) that's the beauty of quality critique it's a learning experience for more than just the OP
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In which case I can be found in the Animal and landscape sections.

Would it be advisable to set a limit to the number of images per post? To try and get away from the threads containing numerous images, resulting in Critters time being taken up by 1 member and numerous others missing out
 
On the Huh said:
Can't be bothered anymore. Too many collection of lady gardens about.

I was encouraged at one point when a mod sent me a PM thanking me for my input. However some bajingo named Richard had a go at me in a thread after I gave my opinion on a couple of pics. I thanked him for his unwelcome input and called him schwingschwong. I thhan received infractions from another mod. So I'll be buggered if I delve in to the un-answered posts again.....I don't even know where it is anymore.
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It's very sad that you feel like this about offering critique, I've lost count of the number of threads I've offered my critique to in the last couple of years and on the whole it's a massively rewarding exercise, I've had a very small number of people that have really been at what I've said, there has been a far greater number that have thanked me both in the thread and via private message, though thanks is not my motivation for doing it...
 
ChrisHeathcote said:
In which case I can be found in the Animal and landscape sections.

Would it be advisable to set a limit to the number of images per post? To try and get away from the threads containing numerous images, resulting in Critters time being taken up by 1 member and numerous others missing out
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Super I'll add you to the growing pack of critters (y) at to limiting the number of images sadly there is nothing we can do to limit how many photos people post so it is more down to the individual critter at to how they determine threads to offer critique in as I've said above IMO it become excessive once your get past three photos

Do you have a target for how often you'll aim to offer critique or do you want to leave it open not that it a binding aim/target ;)
 
Matt, has this forum been sold to you?

Do you have shares in it or something?

I`m quite keen to know.
 
ChrisHeathcote said:
I aim to crit 3 per day (weekly ave)
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Super Chris (y)

fracster said:
Matt, has this forum been sold to you?

Do you have shares in it or something?

I`m quite keen to know.
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No Ade it hasn't been sold to me, No I'm not a shareholder in the forum but I am a stakeholder in it just like your good self (y)
 
No, you are not a stakeholder Matt, neither am I.

It is owned by a few people.

Let them run it as they wish, do you really understand the behemoth that TP is?

I don`t think, financially, you do mate.Not being rude, just offering a DPOV.
 
fracster said:
No, you are not a stakeholder Matt, neither am I.

It is owned by a few people.

Let them run it as they wish, do you really understand the behemoth that TP is?

I don`t think, financially, you do mate.Not being rude, just offering a DPOV.
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Ade do you know what a Stakeholder is? I guess you do not as you've said your not one when in actual fact trust me you are, stakeholder is nothing to do with ownership by the way...

I know exactly who owns the forum, this thread has nothing to do with the ownership of the forum, it's got nothing to do with how the forum is run, all this thread is about is encouraging my fellow members of the to help improve the forum
 
I'm going to be honest Matt, I think the idea of 'critters' is an awful one. Every person who uses those section of the forum should be encouraged to give crit and leave photos. I don't think committing to "doing 3 a day" is the answer. An environment where every member is encouraged and feels able to leave crit is to be encouraged, but a named list is not the way to do that.
 
boyfalldown said:
I'm going to be honest Matt, I think the idea of 'critters' is an awful one. Every person who uses those section of the forum should be encouraged to give crit and leave photos. I don't think committing to "doing 3 a day" is the answer. An environment where every member is encouraged and feels able to leave crit is to be encouraged, but a named list is not the way to do that.
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Every member is encouraged, but unfortunately for varying reason more and more people are refraining or simply putting "nice shot". I think we are hoping for the ripple effect to kick in and as we add more crit, others will be more encouraged to participate. I for one will be looking firstly for threads with not many replies, this way hopefully people will be more encouraged to post for crit and in turn may themselves add crit to others
 
ChrisHeathcote said:
Every member is encouraged, but unfortunately for varying reason more and more people are refraining or simply putting "nice shot". I think we are hoping for the ripple effect to kick in and as we add more crit, others will be more encouraged to participate. I for one will be looking firstly for threads with not many replies, this way hopefully people will be more encouraged to post for crit and in turn may themselves add crit to others
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Thats OK, but I think this will have the opposite effect. People will just think 'Oh, the critters will pick this up' and leave it unanswered. More worryingly, I think this is a step towards a two tier forum. Where you have lists if members able and willing to do something. Its only a short step to people feeling they can't crit as they're not on the list
 
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boyfalldown said:
Thats OK, but I think this will have the opposite effect. People will just think 'Oh, the critters will pick this up' and leave it unanswered. More worryingly, I think this is a step towards a two their forum. Where you have lists if members able and willing to do something. Its only a short step to people feeling they can't crit as they're not on the list
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:plus1:
I felt very much the same about the unanswered posts bit too, how many people just answered because they were there and wanted
to clear them out ?
It never worried me if no one commented on my pictures, but if it is Critque related I will always answer the thread, I truly beleive that unless
it has turned into banter the OP should be last person to post
 
ChrisHeathcote said:
Every member is encouraged, but unfortunately for varying reason more and more people are refraining or simply putting "nice shot". I think we are hoping for the ripple effect to kick in and as we add more crit, others will be more encouraged to participate. I for one will be looking firstly for threads with not many replies, this way hopefully people will be more encouraged to post for crit and in turn may themselves add crit to others
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Disagree Chris, that has been mentioned time and time again, and it will be repeated again later down the road. Simply put, you cannot force anybody to do what they don`t want to, it also all boils down to the type of members at any given time, you will have times when there are people on here that have no problem giving crit and the statistics will look good. You will then get those times when those that have been giving crit will get fed up as nobody acknowledges there replies and stop bothering with it. There will be times when a certain percentage of mebers just don`t give a toss about any of it, and so it goes on. Sorry Matt it is all well and good having people allocated to give crit but at some point that will get thrown back at you by people, they will start complaining why is so and so giving crit to Him/Her all the time and not me, that is the way some people are I`m afraid. How many seasoned members are there on TP? And how many of those are actually involved with this discussion? I rest my case, and that is not me being negative about it all, it is just fact.
 
kendo1 said:
Et tu, Brutus? (er, Phil!)

So maybe we should have a 'Flaming Section' where everyone is allowed to say their piece without being called rude or be pulled up by the mods.
Pull no punches with no risk of backlash.
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No.

Because one of the skills of 'critique' is being able to explain your argument. There is absolutely nothing wrong with challenging a critique, as long as it is done thoughtfully.
 
I think this is being tackled in completely the wrong manner!

The responisbility lies with the thread starter to make the intentions of why they posted their image clear!

If it was 100% transparent why someone posted an image then those who want to leave postitive OR negative comments could do so safer in the knowledge they are "less likely" to be attacked for daring to critisize someones image....they are of course still free to argue the toss if they don't agree with the negativity - but hey it's a free country!

I also belive this is a step to a two tier forum of those deemed "good enough" to be allowed to leave critique and the rest.....

I also don't really understand what all the fuss is about anyway - are those leaving critique just too sensitive when or if the OP's are coming back with counter arguments to critisism?

Is there really anything wrong with the status quo?
Are the mods inundated with users complaining about the lack of comments on their photos posted for critique?
 
u8myufo said:
Disagree Chris, that has been mentioned time and time again, and it will be repeated again later down the road. Simply put, you cannot force anybody to do what they don`t want to, it also all boils down to the type of members at any given time, you will have times when there are people on here that have no problem giving crit and the statistics will look good. You will then get those times when those that have been giving crit will get fed up as nobody acknowledges there replies and stop bothering with it. There will be times when a certain percentage of mebers just don`t give a toss about any of it, and so it goes on. Sorry Matt it is all well and good having people allocated to give crit but at some point that will get thrown back at you by people, they will start complaining why is so and so giving crit to Him/Her all the time and not me, that is the way some people are I`m afraid. How many seasoned members are there on TP? And how many of those are actually involved with this discussion? I rest my case, and that is not me being negative about it all, it is just fact.
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It is your right to disagree Lynne, however we will have to agree to differ on this one. Nobody is trying to force anyone to do anything. Through personal experience it can be very disheartening to spend the time to post a picture explaining what the vision and settings were, maybe what you like/dislike about it and maybe ask for specific feedback, only to receive none. If this happens repeatedly then you stop posting, then stop visting and so forth. All we are trying to do is maybe encourage people to put their head above the parapet and be specific, also to encourage people to say why they like a shot, rather than just smply saying "nice". I for one do not add crit to receive thanks or likes, but hopefully to help others.
 
PMN said:
Naturally, but why assume everyone who picks up a camera 'has' to be an artist? (I'm not aiming this question at you, Matt :)). There are plenty of people shooting, for example, aviation and the sole purpose of what they do is to record the planes as technically correct as possible. Many never point their camera at anything else and that's literally all they do, are they wrong? Is that disappointing?

They enjoy what they do and that's the only important thing, what right does anyone else have to patronisingly say that's "disappointing"? :mad:
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Then it is good to express your goals when you post an image for critique. If someone says 'I am not interested in artisty' then you know to give them a technical rules critique, getting the ruler out and checking for their proportions being correct. On the other hand, if someone says 'I was trying to create a feeling of XYZ emotion' then you know that complex compositional rules are unlikely to matter to them.

Half the problem is that the person asking for critique does not explain their motivations. With most artists you have a body of work to draw on about their past practice, but on a photography forum you simply do not get the same in most cases.
 
All the above views have merit in their own right and have to be respected. It boils down though, to the times when we all complain, or just comment, that the standard of comments on the forum is going down in quantity and quality. So, what do we do? sit back and complain, yet say there is nothing we can do! or try Matts idea, or whatever other ideas that can be tried. This idea might work, it might encourage others to take a more active part which is the real purpose rather than to select an "elite" few regular contributors which would be counter productive. In my view, the worst that can happen is that it falls by the wayside and we revert to complaining again, but if that happens, we have tried. On the other hand, If it works, then that's great for all of us.
 
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kennysarmy said:
I think this is being tackled in completely the wrong manner!

The responisbility lies with the thread starter to make the intentions of why they posted their image clear!

If it was 100% transparent why someone posted an image then those who want to leave postitive OR negative comments could do so safer in the knowledge they are "less likely" to be attacked for daring to critisize someones image....they are of course still free to argue the toss if they don't agree with the negativity - but hey it's a free country!

I also belive this is a step to a two tier forum of those deemed "good enough" to be allowed to leave critique and the rest.....

I also don't really understand what all the fuss is about anyway - are those leaving critique just too sensitive when or if the OP's are coming back with counter arguments to critisism?

Is there really anything wrong with the status quo?
Are the mods inundated with users complaining about the lack of comments on their photos posted for critique?
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The "Critique" prefix allows people to highlight whether they want feedback or not, as has already been suggested maybe having a few other options. may help.

As to being good enough to give critique. I am not a professional photographer, I am an enthusistic amateur, I struggle at times with composition and exposure and know that I am a long way off perfect, but I know what I do and do not like. It has been thanks to people giving their opinions and advice, which has improved me over the last couple of years. Everybody is good enough to have an opinion, even just saying, "Doesnt work for me because ......" is better than nothing, or even worse, "sorry doesnt work for me" at least it gives the OP a chance rather than continueing to take the same average shots, somebody might then suggest an alternative based on that, and so it grows.

The alternative is that the sections is left starts to stagnate, newbies feel discouraged from adding as they dont feel their image is good enough and it becomes a gallery of excellence.
 
CharlotteM said:
Then it is good to express your goals when you post an image for critique. If someone says 'I am not interested in artisty' then you know to give them a technical rules critique, getting the ruler out and checking for their proportions being correct. On the other hand, if someone says 'I was trying to create a feeling of XYZ emotion' then you know that complex compositional rules are unlikely to matter to them.

Half the problem is that the person asking for critique does not explain their motivations. With most artists you have a body of work to draw on about their past practice, but on a photography forum you simply do not get the same in most cases.
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Hammer, Nail, Head :D To be able to critique effectively, you need to know what the OP's goal was first.

Maybe a "Sticky" could be added to the section, giving guidelines on what information would be required helpful when posting for crit
 
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