Can we talk Medium Format cameras?

..but Andy has two digital cameras, at least use them initially to check any camera out........and all separate exposure meters are theoretical in that how does it know what amount of light is going through the lens and camera to the film, when the lens is stopped down. Olympus OM owners will now stand up and say "yeah their cameras measure the final exposure on the film plane with a film loaded" ;)

A D700 won't fit inside a jeans pocket. :p
 
OK, I have no ego - you can all line up to tell me what a prat I am and I promise not to disagree with any of you.

I collected the Mamiya C-300f from the post office tonight and opened the box with crossed fingers. What I saw was roughly what I expected - a dirty, but basically sound C-330f.

Now, I'm a born tinkerer :naughty: (why I else would I be messing around with film when everyone else is using digital ;)) and I've had quite a bit of experience of disassesmbling and 'servicing' SLRs. So, I immedialtely started stripping down the new camera to investigate the condition and see what might need replacing/cleaning. As I expected, the light seals were all just black goo, but that's an easy thing to fix. One of the focusing knobs was bent too, but I finally managed to get the cover off that, hammer it flat and get it back together again.

I cleaned some of the body parts using after shave (Lacoste, for those who are interested :D) and a micro fibre cloth, where a solvent was required and just used a mild detergent window cleaner for the other parts. Everything went well and all that was left was to scrape the black gunge off the rear door and apply the new foam strips.

Before doing that though, I cleaned the mirror (from inside) and the glass focusing screen (or so I thought :bonk:). Looking through the viewfinder, I could still see some little specks of crud and so I decided to take the 'focus screen' out and clean it with some after shave. What I didn't realise is that the glass part that came out in the metal frame was not actually the focus screen :thumbsdown: - it was just a glass cover for the screen, with the plastic focus screen underneath. Consequently, when I rubbed some after shave onto both sides of it and buffed it off with the cloth, one side was squeaky clean and the other side was decidedly 'fuzzy' :(.

On further investigation, I realised that the focus screen was just a shim of plastic underneath the glass and that I had ruined it by 'melting' the surface with solvent :crying:. I (very wrongly) assumed that this 'professional' TLR had the same kind of (real) glass focusing screen as my Nikon F3 (SLR), but we know what assumptions can do, don't we :nono:.

So, I now have to buy a new focus screen before I can do any photography with this particular camera and as I have just been discovering on eBay, screens for these cameras are far from easy to find :bang:.

I hope that by admitting, publicly, to my own stupidity, impatience and laziness (to read up on the camera first), I might possibly save someone else from making the same mistake. There's no need to comiserate with me - I took a gamble on 'knowing what I was doing' and I lost :|.

It may now be some considerable time before I can share any photos from my first MF camera with you all - sorry about that :shrug:.

I bet Ansel Adams never had this trouble :D.
 
You Muppet...
 
OK, I have no ego - you can all line up to tell me what a prat I am and I promise not to disagree with any of you.

I collected the Mamiya C-300f from the post office tonight and opened the box with crossed fingers. What I saw was roughly what I expected - a dirty, but basically sound C-330f.

Now, I'm a born tinkerer :naughty: (why I else would I be messing around with film when everyone else is using digital ;)) and I've had quite a bit of experience of disassesmbling and 'servicing' SLRs. So, I immedialtely started stripping down the new camera to investigate the condition and see what might need replacing/cleaning. As I expected, the light seals were all just black goo, but that's an easy thing to fix. One of the focusing knobs was bent too, but I finally managed to get the cover off that, hammer it flat and get it back together again.

I cleaned some of the body parts using after shave (Lacoste, for those who are interested :D) and a micro fibre cloth, where a solvent was required and just used a mild detergent window cleaner for the other parts. Everything went well and all that was left was to scrape the black gunge off the rear door and apply the new foam strips.

Before doing that though, I cleaned the mirror (from inside) and the glass focusing screen (or so I thought :bonk:). Looking through the viewfinder, I could still see some little specks of crud and so I decided to take the 'focus screen' out and clean it with some after shave. What I didn't realise is that the glass part that came out in the metal frame was not actually the focus screen :thumbsdown: - it was just a glass cover for the screen, with the plastic focus screen underneath. Consequently, when I rubbed some after shave onto both sides of it and buffed it off with the cloth, one side was squeaky clean and the other side was decidedly 'fuzzy' :(.

On further investigation, I realised that the focus screen was just a shim of plastic underneath the glass and that I had ruined it by 'melting' the surface with solvent :crying:. I (very wrongly) assumed that this 'professional' TLR had the same kind of (real) glass focusing screen as my Nikon F3 (SLR), but we know what assumptions can do, don't we :nono:.

So, I now have to buy a new focus screen before I can do any photography with this particular camera and as I have just been discovering on eBay, screens for these cameras are far from easy to find :bang:.

I hope that by admitting, publicly, to my own stupidity, impatience and laziness (to read up on the camera first), I might possibly save someone else from making the same mistake. There's no need to comiserate with me - I took a gamble on 'knowing what I was doing' and I lost

It may now be some considerable time before I can share any photos from my first MF camera with you all - sorry about that :shrug:.

I bet Ansel Adams never had this trouble :D.

Noooooooooo! :crying:

Is this one?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAMIYA-TL...ography_Screen_Protectors&hash=item1e5f58d86d


Heather
 
You Muppet...

:razz: Avatar hypocrite!

:shake: OK, it's a fair cop.




I don't think so, Heather. Mine's the same shape, but is has a numbered scale on the side to determine how much overexposure to dial in when the bellows are extended for close focusing.

There's another focus screen on eBay (from a US seller), but that's for the C-330s and apparently, that won't even fit a C-330f :shrug:.

I can actually 'use' the camera with the screen as it is, but the finder image is really dim and it's very hard to determine focus :(. Maybe I should just set f/16 (or whatever it goes to) and learn to love infinite DOF :D!?
 
:razz: Avatar hypocrite!

:shake: OK, it's a fair cop.

:D

I understand your situation, i'm a tinkerer too, had my cameras in pieces more times than i can count, some of them didnt make it back :shake:
 
:D

I understand your situation, i'm a tinkerer too, had my cameras in pieces more times than i can count, some of them didnt make it back :shake:

It's how we learn, right Rob ;)!?

For instance, in just now researching getting a new focus screen, I've just discovered a really interesting article about perished foam in between the focus screen and its frame on the C-330 and how it can lead to OOF photos :) ...

Link ...

This is something that my new camera is almost certain to be suffering with, as all of the other foam on it is shot. So, once I've replaced this foam and got myself a new screen (or polished the existing one back into service :naughty:), then I should at least have no 'disagree' between viewfinder and focal plane focus :shrug:.

There ... I've put a positive spin on my stupidity now :p!
 
Well, as I mentioned in the post above, it was quite likely that the foam on the frame for the focusing screen would be perished and sure enough, when I had it to bits this morning, it was just a faint trace of sticky black goo :|. No problem - I knew how to fix it, thanks to this brilliant article :) ...

http://photo.net/medium-format-photography-forum/00N8kt?start=0

After replacing them, the focusing screen was able to 'slide' up and down on the posts of the four mounting screws again, which is (apparently) crucial to the correct matching of lens focus to viewfinder focus. Had I not ruined my focus screen and Googled a replacement, I never would have known about this fix and would almost certainly have had OOF issues to some degree.

I also changed all of the door light seals with the correct grades of foam and felt (actually, the felt for the bottom hinge seal might not be Mamiya standard, but I prefer it ;)) and now the door shuts tight, without the slight rattle that used to accompany it.

The (blue dot) lens, which appears to be in near mint condition, was also tested for aperture and shutter speed function. Although I can't time the faster shutter speeds with my watch :D, I can clearly see that the slower speeds are accurate and that they do indeed get progressively faster. Each aperture setting works as it should and intermediate settings (between the clicks) also seem to be represented (which is lucky, as there appears to be no other way to dial in any form of exposure compensation :shrug:).

All other functions of the camera have been tested and the whole thing cleaned up as best it can (given its age).

So, after a total of 6 or 7 hours work, my first ever Medium Format camera is almost ready to go. It's just that damaged focus screen, which stops the camera from being 'perfect'. Luckily though, I now seem to have found one place that sells new ones :naughty: ...

http://www.baierfoto.de/mamiyascreensengl.html

A fair price, considering that they come with the metal frame and could therefore be easily exchanged, IMO. I also get the choice between two different designs. If I can't find a cheaper alternative, I'll get myself one and the camera will then be in considerably better shape than it was when I got it and ready to rawk :D!



Cheers!

Andy
 
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A fair price, considering that they come with the metal frame and could therefore be easily exchanged, IMO. I also get the choice between two different designs. If I can't find a cheaper alternative, I'll get myself one and the camera will then be in considerably better shape than it was when I got it and ready to rawk :D!

Can you not cut down a RB67 focussing screen to fit the C330? I'm sure I've read that..

.. if so.. I think I still have the "wandering ants" screen hanging around somewhere...
 
Can you not cut down a RB67 focussing screen to fit the C330? I'm sure I've read that..

.. if so.. I think I still have the "wandering ants" screen hanging around somewhere...

:thinking: Possibly, I don't really know what they look like :shrug:..

Anyway, I'm going to see if I get a reply to the email that I sent to the company in my link above. The camera's worth spending a bit of money on now, as I've made some test shots and the results look encouraging :).

The negs are just drying now and have two major faults - there is a stain all along one side where I didn't fill the tank sufficiently (too used to developing 35mm negs :D) and some of the shots are badly OOF. That part is no surprise, as the focus screen is almost useless and I really had to guestimate the distances :shrug:.

Light leaks are non-existent and every frame is nice and sharply defined around the edges (so the pressure plate is doing its job). Exposure might be off, as I used an SLR (Nikon FA with 50mm lens) to meter and the light was shifting in value all the time (as the sun went in and out of varying thicknesses of cloud).

I'll post what I can (here) from this first roll later tonight or tomorrow :naughty:.
 
So, as explained above, focusing issues due to the knackered focus screen made most of my test exposures unfit to share and the sloppy developing (with an underfilled tank :() didn't help those that survived.

Anyway, I've tidied up what was left and here are a the survivors :LOL:. Film was Ilford Delta 100 (not my favourite, but all I could get at short notice), developed in Rodinal 1/25 (9 mins @ 20C).

1.
Scan354_900.jpg

I 'wasted' the first couple of frames on my new scooter :D.

2.
Scan360_900.jpg


3.
Scan356_900.jpg


4.
Scan361.jpg


5.
Scan363.jpg




And that's it :shrug: - the best that I could manage to get out of my scanner (at 4,800 dpi, with a .TIF file of 220MB per scan, reduced to a 900 pixel .jpeg :nuts:).

Initial impression :thinking: - I'm not exactly bowled over by the difference between these scans and those of my 35mm negs :|. They're still not nearly as detailed as RAW files from my D700 and even that is more 'pixelly' than I would ideally like. Oh well ...
 
So, as explained above, focusing issues due to the knackered focus screen made most of my test exposures unfit to share and the sloppy developing (with an underfilled tank :() didn't help those that survived.

Anyway, I've tidied up what was left and here are a the survivors :LOL:. Film was Ilford Delta 100 (not my favourite, but all I could get at short notice), developed in Rodinal 1/25 (9 mins @ 20C).



And that's it :shrug: - the best that I could manage to get out of my scanner (at 4,800 dpi, with a .TIF file of 220MB per scan, reduced to a 900 pixel .jpeg :nuts:).

Initial impression :thinking: - I'm not exactly bowled over by the difference between these scans and those of my 35mm negs :|. They're still not nearly as detailed as RAW files from my D700 and even that is more 'pixelly' than I would ideally like. Oh well ...

Well I can see some medium format quality showing through, so it's a good start (y)
 
You are a brave soul to have tried gutting it like that, that's the least I can say; but well done for you to having taken the courage to do so.
 
These are excellent, they definitely prove that 'ITS HIP TO BE SQUARE'

Andy
 
Love shot 1 especially. What scanner are you using? A decent MF scan vs an equally decent 35mm scan is day and night, especially with 6x6/6x7 upwards :)

I miss MF :( God dammit!
 
Initial impression :thinking: - I'm not exactly bowled over by the difference between these scans and those of my 35mm negs :|. They're still not nearly as detailed as RAW files from my D700 and even that is more 'pixelly' than I would ideally like. Oh well ...

i bet if you printed them ( wet ) over ten by eight you'd see the difference to 35mm .
 
So these TLRs you guys are trying to tempt me with... is the image in the viewing screen (when you look down from the top) only inverted side to side, or also upside down (if you see what I mean)?

Also, how hand-usable are they? Tripods do not tempt me (yet)!

Still thinking about a folding 120 camera. I see Fuji will sell me a new one for £1700!!!
 
So these TLRs you guys are trying to tempt me with... is the image in the viewing screen (when you look down from the top) only inverted side to side, or also upside down (if you see what I mean)?

Also, how hand-usable are they? Tripods do not tempt me (yet)!

Still thinking about a folding 120 camera. I see Fuji will sell me a new one for £1700!!!

Chris, it's only inverted side to side. Easy to get used to. Hand holdable down to about 1\15th for a steady hand.
Lots of old reasonably priced folders around, i've got a 1938 Voigtlander Baby Bessa 6x4.5 works a treat.

Not a great shot but shows there is life in the old thing yet.

7663233786_3610e29091_b.jpg
 
Still thinking about a folding 120 camera. I see Fuji will sell me a new one for £1700!!!

Look for an Ensign Selfix, you can pick up a usable example for about £20 on Ebay (sometimes less) and it's a fairly common junk shop find. Ensign kept finessing the 120 folder format, even after the general photographer had switched to 35mm.
 
Look for an Ensign Selfix, you can pick up a usable example for about £20 on Ebay (sometimes less) and it's a fairly common junk shop find. Ensign kept finessing the 120 folder format, even after the general photographer had switched to 35mm.

I totally agree. Ensign produced some of the best British made cameras ever and their lenses were considered on a par with Zeiss. the 16-20 is a really neat little folder (coat pocket sized) and the 12-20 produces fabulous 6x6cm negs with tons of detail. The 8-20's are slightly rarer and can be quite expensive.

Andy
 
Well I can see some medium format quality showing through, so it's a good start (y)

Thanks EXC2! Yes, there's some juicy MF goodness in there somewhere - I just need to find some better subjects now ;).

You are a brave soul to have tried gutting it like that, that's the least I can say; but well done for you to having taken the courage to do so.

Some say 'brave'; others say 'stupid' :D!

The good news is that I managed to replace the focus screen (with the 25 quid in the eBay link on a previous page) and now the camera is tip-top again and working very well (y).

I have some Acros 100 and Velvia 50 on the way, so I am looking forward to posting some better pics soon.

Thanks for the kind words, Wail (y).

These are excellent, they definitely prove that 'ITS HIP TO BE SQUARE'

Andy

:D I partially concur (although I think that I need to consider cropping my future MF shots, as the square format isn't always ideal and quickly gets boring, IMO)!

Thanks Andy!

Love shot 1 especially. What scanner are you using? A decent MF scan vs an equally decent 35mm scan is day and night, especially with 6x6/6x7 upwards :)

I miss MF :( God dammit!

Hi Danny!

The scanner that I use for both 35mm and 120 is the Espon V500 :|. It's a magnificent document scanner, but I am not entirely happy with the results from negative scanning.

It's hard to explain without having any crops of large files to post right now, but when I see a 100% crop of a 4,400 pixel wide scan, comapred to the same crop from the D700's RAW file, I find the DSLR's output to be much more detailed - film scans always look as though they're a bit OOF. Perhaps they are!? There's no easy way to adjust the focus on this scanner, so I can't say for sure, but I know that the sharpness is even worse if I put the negs straight onto the glass to scan them, or if they are curved and do not sit flat in the holder.

Ideally, I'd like to get a better scanner, although I don't know what I can buy that's affordable and would do both 35mm and MF negs :shrug:!?

BTW, I liked your MF work and was disappointed when you decided to give it up (not that it helps much to say so now) :(.

i bet if you printed them ( wet ) over ten by eight you'd see the difference to 35mm .

Oh no doubt! The shots which were taken in focus (some of these test shots were a bit OOF) would look amazing if they were out onto an enlarger and printed - I'm sure of it!

As I said, it's really the scanning that I'm not happy about. At least, if I ever do take a photo that I really like enough, I should be able to get a professional enlargement done, without any compromise on image quality.
 
Film needs some sharpening when scanned, using a fairly high threshold compared to digitally captured pictures. Its exactly like using RAW files as they nearly always needs some USM to look good
 
Film needs some sharpening when scanned, using a fairly high threshold compared to digitally captured pictures. Its exactly like using RAW files as they nearly always needs some USM to look good

(y) True enough, Samuel. In fact, I have sharpened these in Lightroom, using about 90/1.0/1.0 (IIRC). That's quite a lot more than I would use for digital images of the same size.

If I remember, when I get home, I will post some crops of the scans and some from my D700 RAW files - perhaps that will illustrate the problem a little better.

On a side note, I see that Plustek are bringing out a new, dedicated 120/35mm negative scanner soon, which boasts some pretty good performance :naughty:. I also noticed that it costs 2,000GBP :crying:.

The D800 seems like an ever more tempting option, I must admit :|.
 
A 35mm negative film user can not equal a very good DSLR for sharpness and quality, but on saying that, if the neg is drum scanned then results can be very close...erm but drum scanning is expensive. But at the moment medium format film should be at least equal to a 35mm DSLR and you get extra goodies like "pop" in your shots.
A real killer of 35mm digital would be medium format positive film.
 
A 35mm negative film user can not equal a very good DSLR for sharpness and quality, but on saying that, if the neg is drum scanned then results can be very close...erm but drum scanning is expensive. But at the moment medium format film should be at least equal to a 35mm DSLR and you get extra goodies like "pop" in your shots.
A real killer of 35mm digital would be medium format positive film.

Yes, I hope so :). I have 5 rolls of Velvia 50 on the way (well, I've ordered it; I don't know for sure that it's coming), so that could prove interesting :).

Having hunted around the Internet, I see lots of comments about the variable quality of scans from the Epson flat bed scanners :|. It seems that some degree of fine tuning is required to get the negs into the 'sweet spot' for the scanner's lens to focus properly :|. Maybe that's where the answer lies!?
 
I have four medium format cameras, all with multiple lenses and speed grips cost a lot of money when I purchased them. But why did camera makers use foam rubber light insulation. Now they have all gone gooey. Looks like a trip to the council tip.
 
I have four medium format cameras, all with multiple lenses and speed grips cost a lot of money when I purchased them. But why did camera makers use foam rubber light insulation. Now they have all gone gooey. Looks like a trip to the council tip.

Just simple replace the foam! It happens to all cameras from the time eventually and there are cheap and easy to use kits available online for less than £10, most in this section have replaced light seals themselves and its fairly easy to do.

However if not then be sure to throw them in my direction :D
 
I have four medium format cameras, all with multiple lenses and speed grips cost a lot of money when I purchased them. But why did camera makers use foam rubber light insulation. Now they have all gone gooey. Looks like a trip to the council tip.

As others have said easily repaired, I've done the light seals on my mamiya C330 f last night and the seals on my Pentax SL tonight...worth doing and cheap to do, I got my seals from Jon Goodman, A very helpfull guy....

Alternately it looks like there will be a queue at the tip, waiting for you to chuck them..
 
I have four medium format cameras, all with multiple lenses and speed grips cost a lot of money when I purchased them. But why did camera makers use foam rubber light insulation. Now they have all gone gooey. Looks like a trip to the council tip.

This is why I love a trip to the tip.. .. :cool:

For £10 of materials and a few evenings it's more than likely all four could be back up and working.
 
I have been toying with the idea of different thickness felt. The rb67 has been used about 4 times.
 
bronica question (again, sorry.)

is the viewfinder a 100% view? or is it just the carved out box in the middle? (making it like, 120% view)?

Nope the viewfinder on the Bronica SQ series is I think 94 or 95% so when you get your images back you sometimes find more on than you orginally framed. :)
 
eagercat said:
I have been toying with the idea of different thickness felt. The rb67 has been used about 4 times.

That will put a lot of dust into your camera I would have thought. You can buy cheap ready-cut kits with tools off eBay. I sorted out my Mamiya 645 with one of these.

Mike
 
Nope the viewfinder on the Bronica SQ series is I think 94 or 95% so when you get your images back you sometimes find more on than you orginally framed. :)

TBH i havnt noticed on mine, i just assumed the frame would be the inner square and it just showed you whats going on around it in order to help with framing. Ive run out of film at the moment but i'll take more notice of it on the next roll i get :)
 
Fleabay seller has a Yashica D plus a Weston Master V light meter (item 271032425843) and Rolleicord V with a Weston Master II meter (item 271032358149). I got the impression these light meters were quite expensive, so would they boost the real value of these items by much?
 
ChrisR said:
Fleabay seller has a Yashica D plus a Weston Master V light meter (item 271032425843) and Rolleicord V with a Weston Master II meter (item 271032358149). I got the impression these light meters were quite expensive, so would they boost the real value of these items by much?

Chris. I paid £25 for my Weston Master V. I think the MK2 goes for quite a bit less.
Mine works perfectly and came with case and Invercone.
 
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