Canon 1DX release

[Werecow]

It looks like it's been confirmed by Canon that the 1DX won't be able to AF at F8 like every other 1D before it. That confirms it as a complete turkey in my eyes :shake:

 

[KIPAX]

It looks like it's been confirmed by Canon that the 1DX won't be able to AF at F8 like every other 1D before it. That confirms it as a complete turkey in my eyes :shake:

 

[dinners]

It looks like it's been confirmed by Canon that the 1DX won't be able to AF at F8 like every other 1D before it. That confirms it as a complete turkey in my eyes :shake:

Canon to release new range of teleconverters

 

[IGADIZ]

It looks like it's been confirmed by Canon that the 1DX won't be able to AF at F8 like every other 1D before it. That confirms it as a complete turkey in my eyes :shake:

Source of Canon official statement please....

 

[Werecow]

Email from Chuck Westfall to Arthur Morris
""AF is unavailable on the EOS-1D X if the maximum aperture reported to the camera through the electronic lens mount is smaller than f/5.6. This is a lower specification than previous EOS-1 series DSLRs. On the plus side, consider the fact that with most f/4 lenses including the 400 DO, 500/4L IS and IS II, and 600/4L IS and IS II, you now have 41 cross-type AF points plus color and face detection, whereas you had no cross-type points and no color or face detection during AF with previous EOS-1 series DSLRs using the same lenses, not to mention a significantly wider AF coverage area from left to right." "

pasted from pane #6 here
http://www.birdphotographers.net/fo...30-Canon-EOS-1D-X-Digital-Camera-Body-Details

Considering Arthur Morris is a Canon contract photographer, he sounds pretty peeved about it.

 

[IGADIZ]

Wow!!!


If true, this will upset a lot of bird and long distance photographers. I would not be surprised to see a firmware update enabling it again before final release.

Maybe with a disclaimer of some sort stating something like... "we cannot guaranty Af accuracy with lens + converter combinations which exceeds an aperture of f/5.6".

For me is not big deal, the improved AF features far outweighs the omission of Af at f/8... But, I can see the birding forums catching fire over this.

 

[existent]

I am not so sure about that. In the current economic environment, It makes sense to merge the line...

"With this announcement, Canon is also officially discontinuing the EOS-1Ds Mark III (though this is largely a formality, as the company is likely to have stopped manufacturing this body eons ago). Going forward, the EOS-1D X will be the only 1-series camera the company makes, or at least it will be once it becomes a shipping product starting next year" (Source)

I didn't mean another 1D variety.. 5D will be updated soon enough, and if nikon is planning 36mp for their d800, i can't see canon going the opposite way.

With the same logic, you might as well say, in this economic environment, it doesn't make sense for ferrari to have more than 1 model...

Different specs = different user base = more customers... I know it is more r&d for a different sensor design,but if they can make another great camera like 5dmkII that attracts great variety of phototgraphers/videographers, they will make their r&d costs (for sensor) within a year...

 

[bigrob]

For me is not big deal, the improved AF features far outweighs the omission of Af at f/8... But, I can see the birding forums catching fire over this.

Many feathers have already been ruffled with this announcement.

Both for the loss of the APH-C sensor and the lack of F8 auto focus.

 

[jonneymendoza]

If your jobs get cancelled pop in to SE London for a BBQ

Bbq in winter?

 

[bigrob]

Bbq in winter?

Absolutely but it's not exactly winter just yet.

However when it is do one of two things.

1) Put BBQ just outside patio doors and nip out every few mins to turn your meat (even though that doesn't sound quite right !!).

1) Get fire pit .
2) Get alcohol.
3) Light BBQ and Fire pit.
4) Drink alcohol and set the world to rights. Remembering to moan about the same things you moaned about last time (NHS, Government, Discipline in schools, should we kick Scotland out of the UK et al).
5) Remember to put meat on BBQ and don't forget to turn it as you're probably well p*ssed by now......

 

[Moreorless]

Putting the pro 1D body to one side for a minute - It won't happen as I suspect 5D3 will remain a slower high res (30MP or so) option however - I'd love to see a similar next generation coming together of 'full frame' and 'sports' at 'enthusiast' level in the form of a less dedicated spawn of the 5D2 MP and 7D AF & FPS.

Dare I say a fresh Canon take on Nikon's superb D700 view.

My guess would be that if the 1Ds is being phased out the next 5D(or 3D if that becomes the higher spec body) will be shifted up in the market a bit with perhaps better AF and build and an entry level FF introduced.

Beyond the price different I suspect that alot of the reason the 5D mk2 hurt 1Ds mk3 sales so badly was that users simpley preffer a smaller more mobile body. By staying small you also give the high MP FF a much clearer size advanatge over MF digital like the 645D that probabley wouldnt have cost much less than the 1Ds mk4.

 

[jonneymendoza]

It looks like it's been confirmed by Canon that the 1DX won't be able to AF at F8 like every other 1D before it. That confirms it as a complete turkey in my eyes :shake:

Wtf? Is that a joke? My 400d can Af in any appartute settings!

 

[jonneymendoza]

Absolutely but it's not exactly winter just yet.

However when it is do one of two things.

1) Put BBQ just outside patio doors and nip out every few mins to turn your meat (even though that doesn't sound quite right !!).

1) Get fire pit .
2) Get alcohol.
3) Light BBQ and Fire pit.
4) Drink alcohol and set the world to rights. Remembering to moan about the same things you moaned about last time (NHS, Government, Discipline in schools, should we kick Scotland out of the UK et al).
5) Remember to put meat on BBQ and don't forget to turn it as you're probably well p*ssed by now......

My parents once done a BBQ in new years eve lol it was cool actually. my dad doing it was nice and warm lol. Can't feel the cold when your infront of the BBQ

 

[CT]

Wtf? Is that a joke? My 400d can Af in any appartute settings!

Not with a 2X converter it can't which is what this refers to.

 

[StewartR]

Wtf? Is that a joke? My 400d can Af in any appartute settings!

I don't think you understand. It's not about the aperture you're using - it's about the maximum aperture which the lens can achieve, since AF is carried out with the lens wide open.

Up until now, all EOS bodies have been limited so that they will only AF when the lens (or lens plus extender) has a maximum aperture of f/5.6 or better - except the 1D series which can still AF when the maximum aperture is only f/8. It seems that the 1D X is being dragged down to having the same specifications as the more mundane cameras.

The reason this is a big deal for birders and the like is that they'll want to shoot with a 500mm or 600mm f/4 and a 2x extender. A 1D Mk IV (or in fact any earlier 1D camera) will be able to AF with that combo: the 1D X won't.

 

[StewartR]

If true, this will upset a lot of bird and long distance photographers. I would not be surprised to see a firmware update enabling it again before final release.

Maybe with a disclaimer of some sort stating something like... "we cannot guaranty Af accuracy with lens + converter combinations which exceeds an aperture of f/5.6".

I think you're right. The current f/5.6 limit is firmware-controlled, so it would be relatively easy to disable it. Maybe via a custom function.

But even so, it's a backward step. One of the things about Nikon's AF specs which annoys me most is that you often don't know whether or not you'll be able to AF. At f/5.6 it will work; beyond f/5.6 it might or might not. The EOS system at least has clarity - at f/5.6 (f/8 for 1D cameras) it will work; beyond that it won't. If Canon do change the 1D X firmware, that will put them into the will-it-won't-it zone that up until now they've managed to avoid.

 

[NaturS]

It does seem at first sight that Canon seem to have completely forgotten about what must be a failry lucrative customer segment in birders. I see a LOT of high end Canon gear used for it.

The unexpectedly low MP count, loss of APS-H and now f/8 focus all seems to be adding up to a perfect storm style slap in the face.

Clearly the 1DX will be an awesome camera for lots of people, but I think there's going to be a large no. of annoyed 500/600 owners out there.

 

[unclened]

I don't think you understand. It's not about the aperture you're using - it's about the maximum aperture which the lens can achieve, since AF is carried out with the lens wide open.

Up until now, all EOS bodies have been limited so that they will only AF when the lens (or lens plus extender) has a maximum aperture of f/5.6 or better - except the 1D series which can still AF when the maximum aperture is only f/8. It seems that the 1D X is being dragged down to having the same specifications as the more mundane cameras.

The reason this is a big deal for birders and the like is that they'll want to shoot with a 500mm or 600mm f/4 and a 2x extender. A 1D Mk IV (or in fact any earlier 1D camera) will be able to AF with that combo: the 1D X won't.

This might be a pain and not ideal, but could you AF at f4 and then flick up to f8 to take the shot?

 

[StewartR]

This might be a pain and not ideal, but could you AF at f4 and then flick up to f8 to take the shot?

Not if you're using a 500mm f/4 lens with a 2x extender. That's effectively a 1000mm f/8 lens and it apparently won't AF on the new camera.

You could take the extender off, AF at 500mm f/4, put the extender back on, and take the shot at 1000mm f/8. But that would be pretty stupid. I expect it would be better to focus manually using Live View.

 

[bigrob]

This might be a pain and not ideal, but could you AF at f4 and then flick up to f8 to take the shot?

Whilst trying to follow the bird in flight - phew good luck with that.

 

[dinners]

This might be a pain and not ideal, but could you AF at f4 and then flick up to f8 to take the shot?

If you're f4 with a 2X then your already at f8

That's why 1D is handy for f4 max aperture lenses.

 

[Hodders]

The MP issue is just not one that worries me.

I shoot with a 5D2 (5616 x 3744) or 21mp. So the 1Dx has 18mp, that works out at 5196 x 3464, I can live with that.

I think that the res is a sweet spot between high mp and poorer ISO performance and larger pixels (less noise) and better ISO performance.

Loss of 1.3 crop, not an issue for me as I would always go full frame if possible for my photography.

 

[KIPAX]

Not with a 2X converter it can't which is what this refers to.

at no point until your post is a converter mentioned..

 

[amtaylor]

This might be a pain and not ideal, but could you AF at f4 and then flick up to f8 to take the shot?

You still seem to be missing the point. Whether you set the aperture as f4 or f22 in the camera it is still focusing with aperture wide open. When you press the shutter the iris closes down so 'flicking' the aperture up or down is not doing anything that in any way affects the AF system.

 

[vaizki]

The 1D series wasn't even due for an update yet, as the 1D2 and 1D3 were both around for 3 years and the 1D4 has only been here for two.

Maybe we'll see the 5D3 and 7D2 rise up to the studio tog hi res and birder flagship market. Maybe we'll see a 2D and a 3D? Whatever the naming, next year latest we'll see two pro cameras, one with high-Mpx and slow fps, the other with APS-C and 8+ fps. Probably the level of weather sealing in the cropper will be a key factor for birders.

Canon is clearly shaking up things and I'm sure they're not done yet. When the 1Dx is actually shipping in March, the lineup will probably look a lot different from today. As will Nikon's. Expect the D800 and 5D3 as well as a competing pair of croppers to be announced by then.

It doesn't make sense for Canon to announce any consumer cameras before the holiday season if they can't also deliver them under the christmas trees. So my thinking is that they put out the 1Dx announcement this early because there's very few lucky christmas trees out there waiting for it.

If Nikon comes out with the D800, they will force Canon's hand. So let's see what you've got Nikon!

 

[lost]

at no point until your post is a converter mentioned..

Look up 9 posts from cedrics there is a link to another thread Art Morris is a Canon supported photographer
Regards
Richard

 

[squishy]

The 1D series wasn't even due for an update yet, as the 1D2 and 1D3 were both around for 3 years and the 1D4 has only been here for two.

But the 1Ds III has been out for over 3 years now.


I simply cannot understand why canon would disable f/8 auto-focussing.
There just is no reason.
Users seemed to say it worked ok with lenses like the 500/4 plus 2x tc's with the older 1D's.
Since then canon have released the new super-teles and new converters promising better AF performance with the converters, it's just utterly stupid to then go and make it so no body currently on sale will AF with an f/4 lens and 2x tele. :bang:

 

[bigrob]

I simply cannot understand why canon would disable f/8 auto-focussing. There just is no reason.

Unless of course you wanted everyone to buy a 200-400/4 with a built in 1.4 extender making it a 280-560/5.6.

Seriously I am sure it an "oversight" and will be correct before March.

 

[IGADIZ]

For what I have been reading so far, it seems to be a characteristic of the new Phase AF system. Something to do with the angle at which light hits the AF sensor at smaller apertures.

If this is true, it is a hardware based technical restriction that won't be easily fixed with a simple firmware update.

For what is worth, the shooting conditions in which I needed to used my 500f/4IS with the X2 converter were few and far between. The AF in that combination was painfully slooooooooooooow and successful AF lock while tracking moving targets was a hit or miss affair, with miss winning the battle more often than not. In fact, it was so bad, in the 3 years I have own that lens I think I've only used that combo 3-4 times max.

Personally, I won't miss it, that's for sure. I am happy to trade it for Phase AF with colour/ shape recognition, 100000pix RGB AE, 41 f/4 and 21 f/5.6 cross type Af sensors. Not to mention a EV -2 AF and native ISO 51200, Shooting in available darkness is now a reality!

 

[squishy]

For what I have been reading so far, it seems to be a characteristic of the new Phase AF system. Something to do with the angle at which light hits the AF sensor at smaller apertures.

Aaaaah, then it starts to make sense.

Canon would have weighed up the advantages and disadvantages and decided that the advancements are worth the (relatively minor for most users it would seem) sacrifice of f/8 AF

 

[lost]

Another thought this is'nt the first time canon have downsized the amount of pixels on a sensor look at the G range of compacts. Im wondering if this is going to catch the competition napping they may well be going the other way. Look at the Nikon 3 Ds 12.1 million pixels full frame i would think the new Canon offering is as good or better in the high iso race but with half again as many pixels. Maybe we will see a later firm ware upgrade to allow the camera to autofocus at F8 i have a feeling they had a problem and have disabled it for a reason. There is no reason why there won't be a higher res model arriving later. Within 6 months we will probably see a new 5D mk3 like it's predecessors before it they always arrived after the release of the new 1D's.
It will be a interesting 12 months ahead

Regards
Richard

P.s Igadiz had'nt posted when i was composing this but that would tie in with what i was thinking it will be interesting to see what happens

 

[The23rdman]

Many feathers have already been ruffled with this announcement.

Both for the loss of the APH-C sensor and the lack of F8 auto focus.

I'm not surprised. What dumbass camera doesn't af at all apertures.

 

[The23rdman]

Not with a 2X converter it can't which is what this refers to.

Oh. That makes more sense.

 

[vaizki]

But the 1Ds III has been out for over 3 years now.

It was effectively replaced by the 5D2, at least here in Finland the 1Ds3 has been out of stock with everyone for a long time and there's surprisingly many of them out on the used market. But not many buyers when you can get 2 of the 5D2s new for the price of a used 1Ds3..

 

[NaturS]

Posted this elsewhere, but thought I'd add it here..

What I did was work out the number of pixels per mm for various Canon models using the sensor size specs on the Canon site. Then you can calculate what the effective resolution is for moving between formats.

So, for example the 1DX sensor is 144 pixels per mm, so to get the same field of view that an APS-H sensor would show by cropping, you multiply the APS-H sensor size in mm by 144, which gives 4018 x 2678 pixels and a pixel count of 10760204, or 10.8MP. Clearly this means you are the exact same distance from the subject with the two different sensors.

So.... for the main Canon models:

Canon 1DX - 18MP

36mm, 5184 = 144 pixels per mm
24mm, 3456 = 144

Canon 7D - 18MP

22.3mm, 5184 = 232.5 pixels per mm
14.9mm, 3456 = 232.5

Canon 1D Mark iV

27.9mm, 4896 = 175.5 pixels per mm
18.6mm, 3264 = 175.5

Canon 5D Mk II

36mm, 5616 = 156 pixels per mm
24mm, 3744 = 156

This then gives the following figures for the effective no. of MP that achieve the same field of view as the camera you move from. This is purely multiplying sensor size of the "from" camera by ppmm for the "to" camera.

7D to 1D Mark IV

3193 x 2615 = 8349695, 8.3MP

7D to 1DX

3211 x 2145 = 6887595, 6.9MP

7D to 5D Mark II

3478 x 2324 = 8082872, 8.1MP

1D Mark IV to 1DX

4018 x 2678 = 10760204, 10.8MP

1D Mark IV to 5D Mark II

4352 x 2902 = 12629504, 12.6MP

7D effective resolution at full frame (just to prove how silly current APS-C levels are getting...)

8370 x 5580 = 46704600, 46.7MP

 

[ctranter]

Exciting but way out of my price range.

 

[IGADIZ]

Aaaaah, then it starts to make sense.

Canon would have weighed up the advantages and disadvantages and decided that the advancements are worth the (relatively minor for most users it would seem) sacrifice of f/8 AF

... Giving this a bit more thought.
I think Canon wants positive reviews of the AF system ahead of the Olympics. So, my guess is, Af at f/8 with this camera is so poor performance wise, that they have disabled it to avoid any negative AF reviews.

After the total fiasco that was the 1DMKIII, The 1D MKIV was released in time for the winter Olympics with high hopes at redemption. Enter Rob Galbraith who, gave it mixed negative reviews. This, I am sure, did not go down well with Canon's top brass.

So, it may be a case of the top men asking R&D to make the AF in the EOS 1DX perfect at any cost, with an emphasis on a "No weaknesses" policy!

They may enable it after the Olympics with a heavy disclaimer just to apace the small but noisy community of long distance shooters out there.

But, as with another stubborn company (can you say Apple), Canon has a history of sticking to their guns (ask any pre EOS FD system owner) And if this really is a hardware issue then, the (and I use the term with some generosity) "mediocre AF" at f/8 is dead. So, I doubt it!

 

[chimper]

Blimey, it was only around 10 years ago that we were all shooting full frame sports (unless you were unlucky enough to be given a NC2000..)
I don't remember one positive comment about the cropped sensor then and I see it only as a good thing canon are giving us a camera which is capable of, finally, beating the D3.

Also remember it's not "just" a sports camera, it's aimed at press and editorial photographers as well, and in all of my career I've NEVER needed 14fps, or 1/8000th sec shutter speed for that matter.
Just have a look at the work of Chris Smith or Eamon Mccabe
They even managed with manual focus

Couldn't agree more Ed (although I must confess to using 8000th. sec on quite a few occasions ) It always drives me nuts when a new camera comes out, the net is awash with videos demonstrating what 10,12,14 FPS looks like with the video camera stuffed right down the neck of the new 'Beast' to show the mirror flapping up & down like a lunatic humming bird, I find myself thinking...yeah, so what.

You've also mentioned & linked to two of my all time favourite sport snappers there Chris Smith was probably the best long lens user (manual focus) the world has ever seen IMHO & McCabe's eye for a picture was just magical.

Stew.

 

[KIPAX]

Look up 9 posts from cedrics there is a link to another thread Art Morris is a Canon supported photographer
Regards
Richard

your serious arnt you?

 

[bigrob]

Kipax you never answered a question I posed your FB page on May 14th this year - please look back and sort it out