Canon 7D mk2 owners thread.

Had my first opportunity recently to pit the 7D MkII against the 1DX. Same lens, shutter speed, aperture, AF point, AF case, photographing the same subject.

I don't know if there is a slight difference in the AF case parameters in each camera and if I had been using the MkII in isolation I would have been very happy with the results. However the 1DX, although shooting at 2 FPS faster, had a higher hit rate than the MkII. The MkII, for some reason, couldn't pick the sudden appearance of the subject up quite as consistently.

....To be fair, 99.9% of us would expect the 1DX to always have a significant edge over the 7D2 if making direct comparisons if only to justify a very substantial price difference.

I can only compare the 7D2's 10 fps with the 70D's 7 fps and just 3 fps makes a huge difference when photographing small fast birds, well, any birds! So the 1DX's 12 fps must be really nice. I think that many folks under estimate the usefulness of fast fps rates - You need only fire a short burst of 3 images but it can make the difference between a keeper and a deletion.
 
Well I'm relieved for all those 1DX owners - they be pretty narked if a lowly 7DII outperformed it. Tempted to get me a 7DII from Panamoz - or maybe wait to play with one at the photography show.
 
Well I'm relieved for all those 1DX owners - they be pretty narked if a lowly 7DII outperformed it. Tempted to get me a 7DII from Panamoz - or maybe wait to play with one at the photography show.

As a 1DX and 7DMKII owner im not narked but chuffed in all honesty as for the price from Panamoz it makes a great backup and is a lot cheaper than a second 1DX :)
 
Well I'm relieved for all those 1DX owners - they be pretty narked if a lowly 7DII outperformed it.

I think that it's safe to say that if Canon were to market a body with overall features that outperformed the 1Dx then the only place we'd see it is on a replacement for a 1Dx...any other approach would see an exodus of their high mark-up product buyers.

Bob
 
Well I'm relieved for all those 1DX owners - they be pretty narked if a lowly 7DII outperformed it. Tempted to get me a 7DII from Panamoz - or maybe wait to play with one at the photography show.

The 1DX has far more going for it than an edge in AF and a couple of FPS to justify its price.

Will be repeating the experiment soon so will see if tweaking the MkII AF case helps. As I said without a direct comparison the MkII results were very good.
 
Beyond any doubt the 1DX is at the top of Canon's tree and the fact that anyone is making any 7D Mark II comparisons at all with the 1DX is a measure of how good the 7D2 really is. It's a different horse for a slightly different course though and no-one should be under any illusions that the 7D2 is a cheaper version of the 1DX. I should perhaps add that I have never used a 1DX myself.

The 7D2 was heralded to be good and whether we want to pick pixel holes in it or not, it is bloody good! < Not just in my opinion but in many others' opinions too.

I think that a closer comparison would be with the 5D Mark III but then it becomes a bit 'Crop-Sensor vs Full-Frame' [yawn] and that is a somewhat pointless debate because neither is 'better' than the other but merely one is more suited to an individual photographer than the other. A very good friend of mine uses a 5D3 and I use a 7D2 - Each of us prefer what we've got for the subjects we enjoy photographing - We are both amateurs.

Anyway, time to have breakfast and then a cross country fun drive 60 miles to a location where I know there is a Black Redstart hanging out. I'm going to try and use the AI SERVO on 65pts more today. I'm finding that ISO 800 is my sweet spot for achieving decent shutter speed and aperture settings - Not too noisy at all.



^ Info on Flickr [click the image]
 
I've been playing with the 1 Dx with the 100-400 mk2 and the results are stellar, and I'm hoping when my replacement 7D2 arrives early next week I'll have the option of a bit more reach in situations where there's plenty of light available.

For me, the biggest difference in performance between the two is the relatively small improvement in noise performance of the 7D2 over the original 7D (1 stop?)- the 1Dx is way ahead of the 7D2 in that department.

I agree with Gary, it's a great backup and lot cheaper than a 2nd 1 Dx!
 
Apparently the Yanks are setting their 7Dmk2's FPS at 7-8 and getting better results :banana:
 
My guess is George that it's giving the AF a little more time to refocus between frames so not missing many.

You have to compare it with something Robin and that's a 1DX for me. Pretty pointless in having a camera and just assuming because it's got the same AF set up, as near as dammit, then it will perform in the same way.

Just as when I had a 1D MkIV and 5D3 the MkIV was faster to lock on to a subject that appeared suddenly than the 5D3 but the 5D3 tracked better.

Had an interesting chat with a photographer last night about exposing to the right on the MkII. It was interesting to see how far he was pushing it to the right and still getting highlight detail and much less noise. Something to experiment with soon.

I must admit that I've been struggling a bit with the noise on the MkII and having second thoughts about the wisdom of swapping my 5D3 for it, a mate has similar concerns. However after some changes to the way I process the RAW files I'm getting better results now. Perhaps a bit of time spent in seeing just how far to the right you can push the exposure will add the last little bit to the images from the camera.
 
That could well be true re the frame rate, Gary, I have the lo speed set to 8FPS but hadn't tried it yet...will give it a go when the new body arrives.

Re the pushing to the right, I use the HAMSTTR method.....(histogram and metering set to the right) in questionable lighting situations, as I shoot mainly in manual and auto iso with the 1 Dx as it's fairly forgiving at higher ISO, and that's where exposure compensation in the above set up has been a godsend in both the 1 Dx (it was a firmware upgrade) and in the 7D2 where they built it in from the very beginning, and I suspect it'll be a standard feature in future bodies.
Also my display is set to show the RGB histogram after each shot in preview to make sure I'm getting the best balance with exposure.

However, will have to watch the iso on the 7D2 and perhaps limit it.
 
If you could that would be great !

Thanks for the information trev4, I could use hdew as they are only a 5 minute drive from me so I could go and collect it from them...

Well, it arrived today after paying on Monday morning. Not bad from HK! The instructions are in English, not sure about the box as it does have Chinese on it but it's predominantly English. Only give away is the crap charger adaptor, that looks more like a fire hazard than anything else.

Either way, I've saved ~£550. I've bought a couple of new, fast cards to with it and will buy some more batteries and a new charger too, so really I'm quite happy.
 
A great image of the Black Redstart RedRobin. Was that with or without 1.4x?
 
Well, it arrived today after paying on Monday morning. Not bad from HK! The instructions are in English, not sure about the box as it does have Chinese on it but it's predominantly English. Only give away is the crap charger adaptor, that looks more like a fire hazard than anything else.

Either way, I've saved ~£550. I've bought a couple of new, fast cards to with it and will buy some more batteries and a new charger too, so really I'm quite happy.

To add to this the language was still set in Chinese. No problem though, just had to read the manual!
 
Well, it arrived today after paying on Monday morning. Not bad from HK! The instructions are in English, not sure about the box as it does have Chinese on it but it's predominantly English. Only give away is the crap charger adaptor, that looks more like a fire hazard than anything else.

Either way, I've saved ~£550. I've bought a couple of new, fast cards to with it and will buy some more batteries and a new charger too, so really I'm quite happy.
Glad your fixed up and happy with your purchase Harry, its a good saving. I must add that my charger is the same quality as the one I had with the mkI (UK supplied) and it has a standard UK 13a plug fitted, not an adaptor. It probably depends on where they source the camera from initially.
 
Glad your fixed up and happy with your purchase Harry, its a good saving. I must add that my charger is the same quality as the one I had with the mkI (UK supplied) and it has a standard UK 13a plug fitted, not an adaptor. It probably depends on where they source the camera from initially.

Thanks, I'm very pleased with it initially. There are some nice touches, being able to switch AF selection zones with that back lever thing is fantastic, very useful addition. Got to read up on the case settings, although as rule of thumb what do you use for BIF? I'll be shooting slightly bigger, metal birds in flight!

I've set the continuos drive at 8FPS as mentioned earlier in the tread, and set all the bias towards achieving focus before the 1st/2nd shot. Looking forward to using it in anger!
 
To be honest Harry, I have only managed two short shoots and one of those included BIF. I am still trying the different case settings and experimenting. I read about the 8fps earlier in the thread and will add that to my next trial and error shoot. I am used to the 7D mkI, but this is a whole new beast and like you, its impressing me a lot, there's a lot to learn though.
 
Just got mine and playing with it during set-up, I noticed that the viewfinder display of the buffer only shows 16 shots. I have it on RAW only and am using a 60MB/S UDMA Sandisk card. Anyone got any ideas? Does a higher spec card give a better buffer? Thanks
 
Apparently the Yanks are setting their 7Dmk2's FPS at 7-8 and getting better results :banana:

....Doesn't that depend on the subject you are shooting?
 
A great image of the Black Redstart RedRobin. Was that with or without 1.4x?

....Thanks, Neil - Without the 1.4x and handheld. I did take my first few shots with the 1.4x but quickly found that I could get close enough not to need it.

I'll open a thread in the Birds section on this Black Redstart when I have edited more of the 800 images I took over 2 days this week!
 
You have to compare it with something Robin and that's a 1DX for me. Pretty pointless in having a camera and just assuming because it's got the same AF set up, as near as dammit, then it will perform in the same way.


....Agreed. I wasn't meaning to imply/suggest that any comparison was pointless but more that they are different horses for different courses and to claim that one is totally 'better' than the other is perhaps pointless.

As we all know, the different Canon camera cake recipes have different ingredients.
 
Just got mine and playing with it during set-up, I noticed that the viewfinder display of the buffer only shows 16 shots. I have it on RAW only and am using a 60MB/S UDMA Sandisk card. Anyone got any ideas? Does a higher spec card give a better buffer? Thanks

Mine usually shows between 20-22 RAW files. You've not got the ISO cranked right up have you as that will decrease the buffer capacity.
 
Well, it arrived today after paying on Monday morning. Not bad from HK! The instructions are in English, not sure about the box as it does have Chinese on it but it's predominantly English. Only give away is the crap charger adaptor, that looks more like a fire hazard than anything else.

Either way, I've saved ~£550. I've bought a couple of new, fast cards to with it and will buy some more batteries and a new charger too, so really I'm quite happy.

Is the battery charger the type that you can remove the lead from the body of the charger (one end of the lead is a UK plug and the other a 2 pin connector)? If so, maybe I could use my UK lead from my 450D?

Thanks
 
....Thanks, Neil - Without the 1.4x and handheld. I did take my first few shots with the 1.4x but quickly found that I could get close enough not to need it.

I'll open a thread in the Birds section on this Black Redstart when I have edited more of the 800 images I took over 2 days this week!

800 keepers :eek: thats a lot of birds in two days :clap:
 
800 keepers :eek: thats a lot of birds in two days :clap:

.... :D No, probably about 20 potential keepers from the 800 but I'll probably only keep about 10 of those.
 
Apparently the Yanks are setting their 7Dmk2's FPS at 7-8 and getting better results :banana:
There are numerous factors at play here and varying one or all of them will/can have an effect. At 12fps each "cycle" needs 83mS to complete. Within that 83mS the AF sensors need to read the image, the lens is commanded to move, the mirror is raised and the aperture stops down (if required), shutter cycle occurs, mirror drops and stabilises whilst the aperture opens up again.....and we're back at the start.

Shutter.....speeds above x-sync (+ whatever margin is in there) have a fixed cycle time (about 2mS) but slower shutter speeds take a little more of the 83mS.
Aperture....aperture move time is a variable based on lens and the aperture used for the shot. Whilst aperture opening and closing is coincident with mirror movements, small apertures on lenses with slower diaphragms will extend beyond the mirror cycle.
Likewise, focus motor move time will vary from lens to lens and situation to situation. A subject approaching will generate a greater lens move time than one moving perpendicular to the lens axis.

It would be logical to conclude that the AF tracking uses all the available time between the other activities during each cycle. Therefore having more inter-cycle free time (via a slower frame rate) should allow more AF sampling to produce better tracking and lessening the frame rate will allow more sampling in the same way that reducing aperture move time (wide open or near to wide open) does....a quick, snappy lens like a 135/2 used wide open will probably be more consistent, and cope with a faster frame rate than a 600/4 at f/22.

Bob
 
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Is the battery charger the type that you can remove the lead from the body of the charger (one end of the lead is a UK plug and the other a 2 pin connector)? If so, maybe I could use my UK lead from my 450D?

Thanks

No it's like a 2 pronged affair that folds out the back. I'm just waiting for a Lightroom update and I'll have a look at what I got :D
 
Mine usually shows between 20-22 RAW files. You've not got the ISO cranked right up have you as that will decrease the buffer capacity.
Thanks Gary, no ISO was 160.

Did a test and got 24 RAWs before buffer lagged, so that seems OK. I intend buying a high speed 16GB card anyway.
 
What are you guys using for RAW editing?

....Apple's Aperture 3.6 on Yosemite OS but most folks on TP are probably using Adobe Lightroom.

Any final stage of sharpening I do is in Photoshop CS6 but the 7D2+100-400mm L IS II combo seems to need far less sharpening!
 
Met a bloke the other day who thinks that Capture One Pro leaves LR for dead for processing RAW files. After seeing some of his demo to justify his comments I can see why he uses it for the majority of his raw conversion and uses LR for slideshows etc.
 
There are numerous factors at play here and varying one or all of them will/can have an effect. ...
It would be logical to conclude that the AF tracking uses all the available time between the other activities during each cycle. Therefore having more inter-cycle free time (via a slower frame rate) should allow more AF sampling to produce better tracking and lessening the frame rate will allow more sampling in the same way that reducing aperture move time (wide open or near to wide open) does....a quick, snappy lens like a 135/2 used wide open will probably be more consistent, and cope with a faster frame rate than a 600/4 at f/22.


....That's very informative, Bob, and I'm sure that I'm not alone in finding that such detailed explanations really help our understanding and hence our shooting techniques.

It does raise the consideration of how well the 7D2 + 100-400mm mk2 combo work together - They are both Canon's latest state-of-the-art and I think it reasonable to assume that you don't need to reduce the 10 fps (of the 7D2) to improve results. 10 fps has certainly not had any downsides yet in my experience so far :

Examples : https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/silver-bird-juvenile-grey-heron.579253/
 
Met a bloke the other day who thinks that Capture One Pro leaves LR for dead for processing RAW files. After seeing some of his demo to justify his comments I can see why he uses it for the majority of his raw conversion and uses LR for slideshows etc.

....Capture One Pro is my Plan B if Apple's Photos app doesn't deliver. I refuse to pay rent up in anyone's clouds!
 
It does raise the consideration of how well the 7D2 + 100-400mm mk2 combo work together - They are both Canon's latest state-of-the-art and I think it reasonable to assume that you don't need to reduce the 10 fps (of the 7D2) to improve results. 10 fps has certainly not had any downsides yet in my experience so far :
It's a case by case decision, Robin. A bird on a branch or one flying at fairly constant speed and trajectory shouldn't be much of a problem and position prediction calculations probably don't need much in the way of AF calculation updates between frames. On the other hand, Ryan Giggs weaving in and out of Arsenal's defence present an entirely different challenge (as Lee Dixon, Tony Adams et al will no doubt testify!).

There's also the method of tracking the subject.....attempt to maintain it in the same region of the frame or let the subject tracking switch between focus points as required.

Bob
 
On the other hand, Ryan Giggs weaving in and out of Arsenal's defence present an entirely different challenge (as Lee Dixon, Tony Adams et al will no doubt testify!).

1999

Canon EOS 3 (45 point AF with 4.3 fps / 7 fps with drive booster) verses Canon EOS 1N (5 AF points with 3 fps / 6 fps with drive booster)

Happy days :)
 
....Capture One Pro is my Plan B if Apple's Photos app doesn't deliver. I refuse to pay rent up in anyone's clouds!
You can buy Lightroom if want to. If you want Photoshop, but don't want to pay £600+ for CS6, (which is no longer updated) you can get Photoshop CC and Lightroom 5 for less than £9 per month. They stop working if you don't continue with the subscription.
As I said though you can still get Lightroom for a one off payment. No Cloud options if you don't want them. Adobe have said that Lightroom will always be available as a perpetual licence, but that is a multi national company making such statements so you take as much notice of that as you think it deserves. ;-)

I have tried Capture One but couldn't get on with it. I find Lightroom and Adobe Camera Raw very intuitive and powerful. :)
 
....Capture One Pro is my Plan B if Apple's Photos app doesn't deliver. I refuse to pay rent up in anyone's clouds!

Thanks. LR4 says no to 7Dii files so I downloaded the trial of LR5 for now. This gon' be expensive.

As everyone seems to have bought their MkII for wildlife here's something a bit different.

Not wildlife here :) Here's a few from a weekend at Dux.

ISO 800
American Icons by Harry Measures, on Flickr

ISO100
Duxford 07/03/15 by Harry Measures, on Flickr

ISO1600
Duxford 07/03/15 by Harry Measures, on Flickr

Duxford 07/03/15 by Harry Measures, on Flickr

Harry.
 
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