Canon EOS M Series Cameras

Thought I heard the canon rep state in one of the videos I watched that it was a new battery . Time will tell that won’t stop me buying one
 
I've only watched Kai's look at the M50 and he says there's no dual pixel AF in 4k is a bit of a bummer.
 
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Hugh Jarse said:
Park screwed up

It is apparently the LP-E12 from the M/M2

The twin lens kit may be interesting as it includes the 22mm pancake lens
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Yep, its on the Canon spec page
1 x Rechargeable Li-ion Battery LP-E12


I just emailed Park about trading my 80D in, but they only offered £420. Think ill be better off selling it privately and going grey.
 
dave_bass5 said:
Yep, its on the Canon spec page
1 x Rechargeable Li-ion Battery LP-E12


I just emailed Park about trading my 80D in, but they only offered £420. Think ill be better off selling it privately and going grey.
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There was a the ok me I would have looked for an 80D through the forum. 14 months on from my stroke I am comfortable with the weight of the M kit and with the video potential of the M50, I think the new body will mark the moving on of my EOS750D.


If only Canon would put some effort into the M lens Erie's with a move to some fast primes. Reduced size RAW CR3 - fantastic, untterly pointless on the 15-45 and 18-150 IMO
 
I know there’s a few of you interested in a 22mm lens ,while browsing tonight I spotted a used one on the London camera exchange site for just over £100 ,can’t remember what branch though
 
michael23 said:
Anyone seen when stock is due? Im kind of hoping there may be a deal at the photography show, unlikely as it's new, but I will hang on till then,

This video shows the huge crop in 4k and lack of dual pixel af. Crop would be ok for wildlife video though. I'm just trying to find it's top iso in video mode.

View: https://youtu.be/GCchn2dH5cU
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No idea on due date

Interestingly Canon are doing a ‘video’ package deal in the USA of the M50 plus mic etc at $999 dollars. It’s mentioned on the B&H web site but I could not find the details of what you get.

My needs for the 4K is outdoor coastal with some at sea off shore from spring onwards but amateur stuff to add to my Wild Atlantic Project in Ireland. The lack of dual pixel af is less of a problem for that. (That said, the proof of the pudding.....)
 
On the face of it the new M50 appears to be better spec'd than the M5 but if you compare them in more depth it's a slightly different story, as the video below explains.

The latest technology specs introduced in the M50 will almost certainly leapfrog into a M5 Mark II and also a 90D.

The specs would also quite naturally evolve into a mirrorless version of a 7D if that ever happens and certainly some of the specs will find their way into a 7D Mark III.

This video gives a realistic overview :

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK8ogWGHqKU
 
I don't see the point of having 4k on the camera, but then crippling it as explained in that video.
 
Swissy said:
Well their 'marketing strategy' means i wont be buying it.
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I understand that.

I waited for a better M camera and got the M5, which is great, fun to use with good specs and handling, downside, EF-M lens range....

The crippling of the M50 4K spec makes business sense for Canon, by making it cheaper but not better than the M5 (and M6) model.

So the demographic for the M50 is, in my mind, the same as the M100, young Vlogging connected age group feeding Social Media pipelines. Canon have even fixed the stupid positioning of the M5 screen so that the M50 screen can be viewed even when the camera in on a tripod or handle.

The pull for me to buy the M50 is the slightly better video capability over the M5 plus the common lens capability. The C200 is still a temptation and a big one too.
 
I am finding since buying a 5D4 to go with my 7D2, that the M5 is just a little too small physically for my liking - I only use Canon EF lenses and am not interested in the compact EF-M lenses at all. So I think I will sell my M5 soon and offer it in TP Classifieds when I get around to taking photos of it and checking if I can do an actuations count.
 
Swissy said:
Well their 'marketing strategy' means i wont be buying it.
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Well if they offered all of the useful features in a product at the lower end of the range, they would never sell the product at the other end. So if the features you want/need are in the higher priced product....

In the end you pays yer money and makes yer choice.

I don't understand why a vlogger needs 4K anyway. How many computer/smartphone screens are 4096 pixels wide?
 
Swissy said:
I don't see the point of having 4k on the camera, but then crippling it as explained in that video.
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It’s not crippled. It’s taking a native 4K image direct off the sensor rather than downsampling from the whole sensor area.

And just like the normal crop factor, what it loses on the wide end it gains on the long end.

Not so great for travel, but awesome for wildlife.
 
Phil V said:
It’s not crippled. It’s taking a native 4K image direct off the sensor rather than downsampling from the whole sensor area.

And just like the normal crop factor, what it loses on the wide end it gains on the long end.

Not so great for travel, but awesome for wildlife.
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Plus no dual pixel af in 4k means crippled to me, it may be fine for wildlife but isn't this aimed at vloggers?
 
Phil V said:
It’s not crippled. It’s taking a native 4K image direct off the sensor rather than downsampling from the whole sensor area.

And just like the normal crop factor, what it loses on the wide end it gains on the long end.

Not so great for travel, but awesome for wildlife.
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....But if there is no Dual Pixel AF in 4K how is it awesome for wildlife?

All the small M camera bodies are too small physically to offer the standard of handling good enough for awesome wildlife shots (stills). You need EF telephoto lenses for most wildlife and a good physical balance between camera body and lens - Not even the flagship M5 has this except when photographing subjects like insects and tame static animals. I speak from stills experience with both 7D2, 5D4 and M5.
 
RedRobin said:
....But if there is no Dual Pixel AF in 4K how is it awesome for wildlife?

.
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Purely from a FL PoV
(I know crop isn’t actually changing FL)

And I’d wait for some proper field tests before writing it off.

I’m fed up of hearing people use the phrase ‘crippled’ whenever Canon launch a product.

It’s not like every other manufacturer or even one single manufacturer has produced a better complete range of gear.
 
Another month and (what seems like) another M body, It seems a weird route to take with the EF-M lens range staying static for a while.

Are they just trying to chuck enough M bodies/starter kits at the problem until the user base is bigger ?
 
Phil V said:
I’m fed up of hearing people use the phrase ‘crippled’ whenever Canon launch a product.

It’s not like every other manufacturer or even one single manufacturer has produced a better complete range of gear.
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....Agreed. There is no such thing as the perfect camera nor the perfect lens. Each generation of a product has to make compromises and we each have our own preferences according to what we photograph. But I know you already know that, Phil. It's like the never ending competition between Canon and Nikon but the result is that the consumer benefits. It's good that the manufacturers continually strive to make progress - Technology never stands still.

So I praise their efforts and you won't hear me use the 'crippled' word.
 
dave_bass5 said:
I just noticed the Canon IOS app has been updated. Still no raw transfer, at least not in general. It supports the M50 image transfer but I don’t think that’s going to be raw.
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....Check out the reviews and videos which have been posted and you'll see that the M50 can transfer RAW images in the new smaller compressed CR3 format (if I recall correctly). I'm not thinking of buying a M50 and so it's possible I am mistaken. Or am I mixing it up with another Canon body which has a CR3 option?
 
Ste_S said:
Another month and (what seems like) another M body, It seems a weird route to take with the EF-M lens range staying static for a while.

Are they just trying to chuck enough M bodies/starter kits at the problem until the user base is bigger ?
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It’s the biggest issue for me. I don’t want to and cannot since my stroke, lug a heavy bag of kit around with me. I am fine when I am using my motorhome but that does not get me to the actual shooting point.

The M lenses are a bag of liquorice allsorts, a few gems and some you leave for others. S few really good primes and a HQ zoom like the EF-S 15-85 or 18-135 would be a start. For me, the M18-150 just did not hack it and is easily bettered by the M55-200.

Difficult to really get a feel about where and why the M series is lop sided but consider that there is a better range of M Body jackets than lenses, perhaps we don’t fit their target demographic?
 
It seems to me that Canon is like a supertanker, nobody knows what course it's on and nobody is on the bridge checking what all the other shipping is up to. The rudder may or may not work because it hasn't been tested lately and whilst there are currently no rocks on the horizon, there's always the chance of a disruptive iceberg drifting onto a collision course.

Canon seems to be developing a knack for iterating cameras which are perhaps sometimes years out of date on introduction (EOS M first version). The rather expensive 5D4 has a dreadful crop factor for 4K and a codec (MJPEG) I assume was written in the 19 Century. I understand that not everybody wants video in a camera, but certainly I do. So would I upgrade my 5D2, a camera that really started the whole independant video movement in DSLRs, to a 5D4, well no.

I also own the original EOS M, a camera I have a love hate relationship with even when purchased at minimal cost , so I followed the rumours, announcement and initial reviews of the M50 with interest. Based on the information so far, I wouldn't upgrade to this camera either, because:

1. Why would Canon fit this camera with the puniest (EOS M) battery in the mirrorless world when they could have at least fitted the second puniest battery (EOS M5), Sigma Merrills excepted.
2. The dreaded crop factor appears again, Vloggers can forget the selfie stick and swop to a barge pole instead. Make that the long pole version if the Electronic Image Stabilisation is going to be used, which of course it will be.
3. The Crown Jewel of Dual Pixel Auto Focus is to be denied to those daring to venture into 4K, a case of gruel today and jam later, but nobody knows how much later and how much jam.
4. No announcements relating to improving the current lacklustre native lens selection, no road map, more like lost in space. The number of bodies now equals the number of available EF-M lenses, how does that make sense?
5. No proper IBIS in 2018. Yet IBIS can be found in Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji and Sony, in some cases introduced years ago.

I'm just an amateur enthusiast and like most don't make any money from photography. Photography purchases therefore have to be carefully considered, weighing up the pros and cons of respective cameras and lenses. I like my 5D2 and there is no reason to stop using it when the weight and size are not too problematic. But I'm heavily into the M43 system because it is small, light, has a great lens range and is cost effective, expecially for travel or walk about use. Canon has failed to provide a fleshed out EOS M system, had they done so then a lot of Canon photographers might never have needed to venture away from the brand.
 
RedRobin said:
....Check out the reviews and videos which have been posted and you'll see that the M50 can transfer RAW images in the new smaller compressed CR3 format (if I recall correctly). I'm not thinking of buying a M50 and so it's possible I am mistaken. Or am I mixing it up with another Canon body which has a CR3 option?
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The M50 is the first to offer .CR3 I believe.

It’s more raw images from my 5D4 I’m interested in transferring.
 
michael23 said:
Yes, only the m50 with cr3, it won't come as a firmware update as it requires the digic 8. Why oh why did they have to put that original battery in!

I look forward to seeing if digic 8 helps dynamic range and high iso performance,
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Daft as it seems, Canon could have got away with using the E12 battery by offering the option of an external battery pack using a USB power brick with a USB cable or a battery replacement unit in the style of the mains units available for many DSLRs but connecting to a power brick with belt hook for quick release.

Sounds a bit far fetched?

Well it is available....

Ex-Pro[emoji768] Canon DR-E12 LP-E12 On-The-Move 16000mAh Rechargeable Battery Power System replacing Battery Grip Battery for Canon EOS M, EOS M10 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01M5KQQSY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_XYFLAbZPWKBF3

If Canon were to build this into their offering and properly support it then it could be rolled out for other models. Naturally it might hit margins from extra/replacement batteries....

All day shooting anyone?
 
Hugh Jarse said:
Daft as it seems, Canon could have got away with using the E12 battery by offering the option of an external battery pack using a USB power brick with a USB cable or a battery replacement unit in the style of the mains units available for many DSLRs but connecting to a power brick with belt hook for quick release.

Sounds a bit far fetched?

Well it is available....

Ex-Pro[emoji768] Canon DR-E12 LP-E12 On-The-Move 16000mAh Rechargeable Battery Power System replacing Battery Grip Battery for Canon EOS M, EOS M10 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01M5KQQSY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_XYFLAbZPWKBF3

If Canon were to build this into their offering and properly support it then it could be rolled out for other models. Naturally it might hit margins from extra/replacement batteries....

All day shooting anyone?
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....I have no problems with all day shooting without a battery grip - I simply carry a couple of spare batteries in my pocket and it's far less cumbersome to shoot with all day than that Ex-Pro system.

Furthermore, a battery grip offers much more use than only carrying an extra battery as it makes handling in both portrait and landscape orientations much much easier. It also provides better physical balance with a supertelephoto lens.

But, surely battery grips on EOS M bodies would contradict their usefulness as a compact camera?
 
HarveyM said:
It seems to me that Canon is like a supertanker, nobody knows what course it's on and nobody is on the bridge checking what all the other shipping is up to. The rudder may or may not work because it hasn't been tested lately and whilst there are currently no rocks on the horizon, there's always the chance of a disruptive iceberg drifting onto a collision course.

Canon seems to be developing a knack for iterating cameras which are perhaps sometimes years out of date on introduction (EOS M first version). The rather expensive 5D4 has a dreadful crop factor for 4K and a codec (MJPEG) I assume was written in the 19 Century. I understand that not everybody wants video in a camera, but certainly I do. So would I upgrade my 5D2, a camera that really started the whole independant video movement in DSLRs, to a 5D4, well no.
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....No, when you say "nobody knows" you are referring to you and me and everyone else who is outside Canon's inner sanctum. Surely you don't honestly think that Canon aren't aware of what their rivals are offering the consumer? Also, design and manufacturing competition and rivalry is such that it is essential for a company to keep its cards extremely close to its chest and not make it known to the public, especially nowadays with online media greedy for news whether fake or not.

But even so, what you want from a camera is quite different from what I want and any provider can't please all of the people all of the time - I love my 5D4 for what I do (stills and no video). Thank goodness Canon and Nikon offer a wide range of camera bodies in their praiseworthy efforts to accommodate as many different photographers as possible.
 
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RedRobin said:
....I have no problems with all day shooting without a battery grip - I simply carry a couple of spare batteries in my pocket and it's far less cumbersome to shoot with all day than that Ex-Pro system.

Furthermore, a battery grip offers much more use than only carrying an extra battery as it makes handling in both portrait and landscape orientations much much easier. It also provides better physical balance with a supertelephoto lens.

But, surely battery grips on EOS M bodies would contradict their usefulness as a compact camera?
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The link I posted is not a battery grip but an external battery power bank. I agree, a battery grip on an M is senseless but, like a n external battery pack for a speedlight, you have the security of not being stuck swapping batteries when the very shot you hoped for is in front of you.

The M50 is, to my mind, an ideal tool for modern SM uses and potential live streaming in due course. I am interested in adding video to a project that is coming into it’s 3rd year and Adding the M50 in place of the EOS750D I have used so far (albeit sparingly) may work out fine. Battery life + continuity is important.

I am handling the M5 with comfort but a battery grip wuld send me back to the EOS5D2 languishing in it’s case. Weight in handing is important (crucial) for me, so an external pack connected to an M50 body also gives continuity, albeit in 4Gb chunks.

A bit pie in the sky but anything that fires the imagination of the generation that is driving the vlogging community, must add value in the manufacturing sector to build more into their products. Get the younger user early sell more?
 
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RedRobin said:
...No, when you say "nobody knows" you are referring to you and me and everyone else who is outside Canon's inner sanctum. Surely you don't honestly think that Canon aren't aware of what their rivals are offering the consumer?
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Sure they do. Canon (and Nikon) can see what Fuji, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic etc are doing and the rising popularity of mirrorless.
However those other companies aren't encumbered by being a DSLR company primarily in the way that Canon and Nikon are.

Canon don't want to build a mirrorless camera that competes with Fuji and Sony, as it also means it'll be competing with it's own DSLRs. Hence the weird place it's M series find's itself with more body jackets than lenses. Nikon had the same problem with the '1' series, trying to build a niche for it that doesn't compete with it's own DSLRs

Canon and Nikon are going to have make the jump at some point to ditch DSLR for mirrorless, and it will start with full frame and a new lens standard that'll trickle down to new crop sensor variants gradually. The M series (just like '1' series) will be forgotten.
 
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Ste_S said:
Canon and Nikon are going to have make the jump at some point to ditch DSLR for mirrorless, and it will start with full frame and a new lens standard that'll trickle down to new crop sensor variants gradually.
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....Perhaps they will ditch D-SLR but perhaps they won't and technologies will merge < We can only speculate.

While speculating I think that Canon's mirrorless venture into the larger bodies will start with the crop-sensor bodies and not start with full-frame as you suggest. Why? - Because the crop-sensors suited for mirrorless already exist in the M5 and M50.

I just hope that Canon don't physical downsize their bodies too much physically just because of mirrorless internals.
 
Been pondering all week since the m50 was announced trying to make my mind up whether to jump now or later . So question 1 does anyone use the m6 and does it have any bad points to look out for .
#2 has any bought from e.globalcentral on e.bay and was it a good or bad experience .

I think the m6 will suit m6 needs for the .current time
 
The problem with trotting out the same old nonsense to every new camera is it gets to look daft as well as old.

Ste_S said:
Canon don't want to build a mirrorless camera that competes with Fuji and Sony, as it also means it'll be competing with it's own DSLRs.
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Why?
This makes no sense, it’s a repeat of the old excuse for Canon crippling their entry level cameras (a stupid way of describing market segregation).
Why would Canon care if the 100,000 cameras they’re selling are mirrorless rather than DSLR? It makes no sense.

They’re maybe having user research problems, as ‘our’ desire for lenses isn’t being heard, but it’s utterly naive to think that the worlds largest camera mfr doesn’t know what it’s doing. Anyone who understands modern lean or agile business practices knows that the customer is at the heart of design, it’s altogether possible that ‘we’ aren’t a significant number of users to drive them.

Ste_S said:
Canon and Nikon are going to have make the jump at some point to ditch DSLR for mirrorless,
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Again... Why?

You’re attacking the market leaders as if you’re the one person who knows the market and they’re clueless. Just say that out loud to yourself; do you sound like you ought to be wearing a tinfoil hat?
 
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