Canon EOS R Series Cameras

nandbytes

I owe Cobra some bacon
Messages
4,995
Edit My Images
Yes
Got my R w/RF 24-105 + RF 35mm f1.8 this week. Coming from a 5D3 it's going to take some adjusting to!

Initial thoughts....

Low light focusing is amazing. This was one of the main reasons for switching and it's delivered what's promised. It looks like if it can't focus, there isn't enough light to take a picture with (unless you were on a tripod, on which case manual focus would be fine).

It's lovely and small/light with the RF35. With the 24-105 the size advantage over a 5d3 w/24-105 becomes less compelling. Unless you are using small lenses, the size / weight savings are a bit of a moot point IMHO.

USB-C charging works with a £30 Anker multi charger of Amazon. This is going to be great for a road trip we are doing this year to the US, as it's one charger to do all the phones and the camera. As per the manual, you have to turn off wifi to get it to charge.

In accordance with just about everyone on the internet, the touchscreen is great, the touchbar is a bit rubbish :-(

It worked really well with my Sigma 100-400 and Canon 85mm f1.8.

I shall not miss calibrating lenses one bit :)

The RF35mm is a little bit rough sounding (I thought STM was supposed to be quiet?) but image quality appears to be good.

I honestly think the video is great from this camera. I'd rather shoot 1080 as I have a computer that can edit it and the AF looks like it works well.

Wifi appears to work well with the app on the phone.


In short, for all the internet hate this camera gets, for my usage, it think it's going to be a winner :), I will probably get the Pro RF body when it's been out a year or so and the price has dropped, but for now, this is great.
I think it gets hate because people were expecting a 5d4 alternative which it didn't turn out to be.
 
Messages
10,286
Name
Keith
Edit My Images
No
EOS RP review from one of the better non-bias reviewers IMO, though as per usual he is more a videographer -
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5yp-qOG8l8


TL;DW - he likes it, and thinks if low light performance, better ergonomics, better AF and better video performance are important to you, then it is worth the upgrade. Just try get a good deal with adapter and RF lens in the package.
 
Messages
10,286
Name
Keith
Edit My Images
No
In short, for all the internet hate this camera gets, for my usage, it think it's going to be a winner :), I will probably get the Pro RF body when it's been out a year or so and the price has dropped, but for now, this is great.
It got hate mostly from the video crowd, and most of those moans are best ignored if you rarely use video anyway. It was also a bit over priced many thought when it first appeared, but now it can be had for much more reasonable money, especially if you can find a good deal with an RF lens inc.

The RP is getting even more slating, but I think most of that is unjustified too. You have to think of it as a 1080p camera on the video side, and realise there will be some compromise, it is not an R, it's not meant to match it.
 
Messages
5,061
Name
Robin
Edit My Images
Yes
Wish they'd hurry up with saying when and what it would included, so I'd have an better idea which mirrorless system to go for
.... I'm afraid that none of the camera manufacturers announce anything new until a week or two before and regarding firmware it's nearly always down to consumers and word on the hyperwebbyinternet to keep checking and spread the news.

For Canon products, CanonRumors is a fairly reliable website for having their finger on the pulse but nothing is guaranteed.
 
Messages
5,061
Name
Robin
Edit My Images
Yes
Sadly, it's all part of their hype. Starve them off information... keep them guessing. Resist!
.... Hmm, having had some major blue chip clients in my past working life I don't see such corporate behaviour as hype. It's extremely competitive with high stakes not just financially but in maintaining a brand's status in the market. None of these technology companies can afford to be so publicly transparent. Product development never actually stops, it continues all the time and is merely punctuated at various stages by public release and those releases can only be when they are considered good enough to be ready.
 
Messages
10,286
Name
Keith
Edit My Images
No
If Canon had put IBIS into their R series, I'd be well on board, I really would - the RP could have been a little classic, all it needed was that, plus FFS let it have the 24fps for 1080p that all the vloggers whine about! I don't know what is up with Canon, I'm not going to second guess their strategy as they have gotten it right for a long time now - but Jesus ... do they alienate themselves at times! Why p*** people off with releases? isn't the idea to lure in as many as possible? The RP has received nothing but hate since release, and all because of a couple of features lacking that they could easily have implemented. I still think the RP was a neat idea, I think it's a comfy, neat looking little FF camera ... but they kicked it to death before unleashing it, giving it no hope.
 

nandbytes

I owe Cobra some bacon
Messages
4,995
Edit My Images
Yes
If Canon had put IBIS into their R series, I'd be well on board, I really would - the RP could have been a little classic, all it needed was that, plus FFS let it have the 24fps for 1080p that all the vloggers whine about! I don't know what is up with Canon, I'm not going to second guess their strategy as they have gotten it right for a long time now - but Jesus ... do they alienate themselves at times! Why p*** people off with releases? isn't the idea to lure in as many as possible? The RP has received nothing but hate since release, and all because of a couple of features lacking that they could easily have implemented. I still think the RP was a neat idea, I think it's a comfy, neat looking little FF camera ... but they kicked it to death before unleashing it, giving it no hope.
But if they put IBIS in the body it wouldn't be the same price. Remember Sony A7 which didn't have IBIS came out at a similar price to RP. As soon as they added IBIS and released A7II the price increased despite all else being almost equal between the two bodies.

I imagine same would apply to RP the price is only so good because it lacks IBIS (and other features). So if the price went up would it still be of interest to you over Z6 or A7III or A7RII?
Z6 is probably the best one of the lot in terms of body, IBIS and better EVF.

I am the opposite I am glad they didn't put in IBIS and increase the bulk. The body is nice. Just upgrade the darn sensor lol and you'd have me drooling all over it.

Lastly getting it right for a long time doesn't mean they'll always have it right. Otherwise companies would never die ;)
Though Japanese companies know how to survive.
 
Messages
5,061
Name
Robin
Edit My Images
Yes

nandbytes

I owe Cobra some bacon
Messages
4,995
Edit My Images
Yes
"Canon has a history of not always being first in the market with new technology, but we are very good at catching up, going beyond and becoming the leader." - Go Tokura, Image Communication Business Operations Group Executive, Canon Japan.

Read more including about IBIS at :

https://www.amateurphotographer.co....lens-stabilisation-127019#2AkHVgobQu1kqv7K.99
I read that and I m glad to hear it!
Tbh I liked what canon was doing i.e. non-IBIS light bodies. I hope they keep that up. The RP isn't for me but next gen might just tick the boxes. They are already making all the right lenses.

I am also hoping they'll have a teleconveter soon after that 70-200/2.8
 
Last edited:
Messages
22,918
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
No
If Canon had put IBIS into their R series, I'd be well on board, I really would - the RP could have been a little classic, all it needed was that, plus FFS let it have the 24fps for 1080p that all the vloggers whine about! I don't know what is up with Canon, I'm not going to second guess their strategy as they have gotten it right for a long time now - but Jesus ... do they alienate themselves at times! Why p*** people off with releases? isn't the idea to lure in as many as possible? The RP has received nothing but hate since release, and all because of a couple of features lacking that they could easily have implemented. I still think the RP was a neat idea, I think it's a comfy, neat looking little FF camera ... but they kicked it to death before unleashing it, giving it no hope.
On photo forums maybe, but forumites only rave about the cameras that they personally want as if they're the only ones that matter.

But for manufacturers, the cameras that contribute most to the bottom line are by far the big-selling lower cost models. The RP may not have the best of everything (or even anything) but it does most things well, in a very handy package, and at a knock-down price. That is a ground-breaking combo. And as it heads down to £1k I think the RP will soon become the biggest selling FF mirrorless.

The other thing is lenses, or lack of native RF-mount lenses, but Canon's strategy (evidently for some years) has been to make EF lenses fully compatible with mirrorless. And now we're seeing that rolled out with free adapters for R-series cameras making the transition as affordable and painless as possible with, in practise, the biggest range of lenses available anywhere and effectively free for those lenses you already own. Cost is a hugely significant factor for real consumers, the primary feature. It may not be ideal, but we only buy what we can afford.
 
Messages
1,963
Edit My Images
No
I would have jumped in if there had been IBIS and two slots for cards. And yes, I realised in this last week that I had forgotten to download everything from a CF card that I had cleared hastily before going off to shoot; luckily, I still had the SD card -also set to RAW - to save the day. So, it's not often that it is needed but I do really like that backup being there in case I stuff things up myself.
 
Messages
10,286
Name
Keith
Edit My Images
No
On photo forums maybe, but forumites only rave about the cameras that they personally want as if they're the only ones that matter.

But for manufacturers, the cameras that contribute most to the bottom line are by far the big-selling lower cost models. The RP may not have the best of everything (or even anything) but it does most things well, in a very handy package, and at a knock-down price. That is a ground-breaking combo. And as it heads down to £1k I think the RP will soon become the biggest selling FF mirrorless.

The other thing is lenses, or lack of native RF-mount lenses, but Canon's strategy (evidently for some years) has been to make EF lenses fully compatible with mirrorless. And now we're seeing that rolled out with free adapters for R-series cameras making the transition as affordable and painless as possible with, in practise, the biggest range of lenses available anywhere and effectively free for those lenses you already own. Cost is a hugely significant factor for real consumers, the primary feature. It may not be ideal, but we only buy what we can afford.
It's the reviewers who are slating it the most, I haven't actually seen much hate for it on forums. But the sheep who watch or read these reviewers follow suit, you only have to read the comment sections, talking thousands of people across them all slating it. A lot of it is nonsense, such as the camera not having 24fps, which wouldn't bother me in the slightest. But the rest is the fact they used an already poor sensor [for DR] - no IBIS, and this goes for both R models, and lack of budget friendly RF lens options - seeing as the RP is aimed at the budget shooter or beginners to FF. I do believe they have some more reasonably priced lenses on the way though.

But if they put IBIS in the body it wouldn't be the same price. Remember Sony A7 which didn't have IBIS came out at a similar price to RP. As soon as they added IBIS and released A7II the price increased despite all else being almost equal between the two bodies.

I imagine same would apply to RP the price is only so good because it lacks IBIS (and other features). So if the price went up would it still be of interest to you over Z6 or A7III or A7RII?
Z6 is probably the best one of the lot in terms of body, IBIS and better EVF.

I am the opposite I am glad they didn't put in IBIS and increase the bulk. The body is nice. Just upgrade the darn sensor lol and you'd have me drooling all over it.

Lastly getting it right for a long time doesn't mean they'll always have it right. Otherwise companies would never die ;)
Though Japanese companies know how to survive.
I wonder how much more it would have to be? It would depend then of course. But as I mention, if they had a selection of budget friendly lenses with OIS that could change things. I was still interested even without IBIS, but then change my mind fast when I see the native lens pricing. Only the 35mm is reasonable, and yes you could just use older EF lenses but when I buy into a new system I like some native lenses to go with too.
 
Messages
5,061
Name
Robin
Edit My Images
Yes
But the rest is the fact they used an already poor sensor [for DR] - no IBIS, and this goes for both R models, and lack of budget friendly RF lens options - seeing as the RP is aimed at the budget shooter or beginners to FF. I do believe they have some more reasonably priced lenses on the way though.

I wonder how much more it would have to be? It would depend then of course. But as I mention, if they had a selection of budget friendly lenses with OIS that could change things. I was still interested even without IBIS, but then change my mind fast when I see the native lens pricing. Only the 35mm is reasonable, and yes you could just use older EF lenses but when I buy into a new system I like some native lenses to go with too.
.... As someone who has shot a few thousand images with both a range of EF lenses and a RF (24-105mm) on the EOS-R, there really is no difference in image quality (as anyone can see in my Flickr albums) and so if you really want an EOS-RP body why let a current limitation in choices of RF lenses stop you?

It takes time for any camera manufacturer to extend their lens range but I think that Canon are giving us a very practical and cost efficient solution. Anyway, the RF 24mm-105mm F/4L IS offers an excellent allrounder meanwhile if only native RF will suit you.

I have forgotten but do you already own any EF lenses, Keith?
 
Messages
22,918
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
No
It's the reviewers who are slating it the most, I haven't actually seen much hate for it on forums. But the sheep who watch or read these reviewers follow suit, you only have to read the comment sections, talking thousands of people across them all slating it. A lot of it is nonsense, such as the camera not having 24fps, which wouldn't bother me in the slightest. But the rest is the fact they used an already poor sensor [for DR] - no IBIS, and this goes for both R models, and lack of budget friendly RF lens options - seeing as the RP is aimed at the budget shooter or beginners to FF. I do believe they have some more reasonably priced lenses on the way though.

I wonder how much more it would have to be? It would depend then of course. But as I mention, if they had a selection of budget friendly lenses with OIS that could change things. I was still interested even without IBIS, but then change my mind fast when I see the native lens pricing. Only the 35mm is reasonable, and yes you could just use older EF lenses but when I buy into a new system I like some native lenses to go with too.
Now you're doing it too, Keith. The RP has a certain feature set, at a new record low cost for FF mirrorless. Canon believes there's a big market opportunity for that, but if it's not enough for you then fair enough, move on. Canon will have many more RF lenses available just as soon as they can make them, They've said it's a priority.

But for the RP's target market, they're not bothered about any new lenses just yet as their budget is already maxed out buying just the body and they're very happy to be able to use that with all their existing lenses at no extra cost. When they're in a position to buy more, plenty of native RF lenses will be available.

And what are the benefits of native RF lenses over adapted EF lenses anyway? I would say they're less of a need and more of a new shiny GAS nice-to-have thing that most folks can't afford right up front.
 
Messages
10,286
Name
Keith
Edit My Images
No
Now you're doing it too, Keith. The RP has a certain feature set, at a new record low cost for FF mirrorless. Canon believes there's a big market opportunity for that, but if it's not enough for you then fair enough, move on. Canon will have many more RF lenses available just as soon as they can make them, They've said it's a priority.

But for the RP's target market, they're not bothered about any new lenses just yet as their budget is already maxed out buying just the body and they're very happy to be able to use that with all their existing lenses at no extra cost. When they're in a position to buy more, plenty of native RF lenses will be available.

And what are the benefits of native RF lenses over adapted EF lenses anyway? I would say they're less of a need and more of a new shiny GAS nice-to-have thing that most folks can't afford right up front.
Well, yeah, it's what happens, you get suckered in. I am the target market btw, and I am bothered about new lenses. Some budget for the body as they don't see it as important, and spend more on lenses, they are almost always the better investment. I imagine the benefit of native lenses is they will perform better, no matter how good the adapting is, native will always be better, the lenses were specifically designed for that body and sensor. Doesn't really matter what we pitter patter on here, that's all it really is, letting off steam ... I wanted to really like the RP, I've defended it more than most on here and elsewhere ... but I still don't think it's for me.
 
Messages
22,918
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
No
Well, yeah, it's what happens, you get suckered in. I am the target market btw, and I am bothered about new lenses. Some budget for the body as they don't see it as important, and spend more on lenses, they are almost always the better investment. I imagine the benefit of native lenses is they will perform better, no matter how good the adapting is, native will always be better, the lenses were specifically designed for that body and sensor. Doesn't really matter what we pitter patter on here, that's all it really is, letting off steam ... I wanted to really like the RP, I've defended it more than most on here and elsewhere ... but I still don't think it's for me.
Well everyone's a potential customer but you're not Canon's primary target buyer for either of the new R cameras at this stage of the market transition, because you're not a Canon user with a bunch of lenses.

To those people, if budget is a consideration - and it always is, the level just that varies - then like me I'm pretty sure they will view both the R and RP differently.

Doing a few rough sums, the cost for me of moving to Canon mirrorless is just the cost of the body. If I swap to any other brand, I'm looking at something like £8k and that's not going to happen.
 

nandbytes

I owe Cobra some bacon
Messages
4,995
Edit My Images
Yes
Well everyone's a potential customer but you're not Canon's primary target buyer for either of the new R cameras at this stage of the market transition, because you're not a Canon user with a bunch of lenses.

To those people, if budget is a consideration - and it always is, the level just that varies - then like me I'm pretty sure they will view both the R and RP differently.

Doing a few rough sums, the cost for me of moving to Canon mirrorless is just the cost of the body. If I swap to any other brand, I'm looking at something like £8k and that's not going to happen.
Unless you plan on adapting forever the cost is the same. In fact the cost will go up in the future when they start phasing out DSLRs.
 
Messages
8,189
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
Unless you plan on adapting forever the cost is the same. In fact the cost will go up in the future when they start phasing out DSLRs.
How do you work that out? If your happy using EF glass (and certainly if I owned things like a 24-70 I'd use that over an RF lens) why would the cost go up?
 

nandbytes

I owe Cobra some bacon
Messages
4,995
Edit My Images
Yes
How do you work that out? If your happy using EF glass (and certainly if I owned things like a 24-70 I'd use that over an RF lens) why would the cost go up?
As I said "unless you plan on adapting forever" i.e. always using EF lenses and not buying any RF lenses the cost of swap will roughly be the same if not go up with time. If you do adapt forever then of course you save money but you also lose out on many of the benefits of mirrorless.
 
Messages
10,286
Name
Keith
Edit My Images
No
Well everyone's a potential customer but you're not Canon's primary target buyer for either of the new R cameras at this stage of the market transition, because you're not a Canon user with a bunch of lenses.

To those people, if budget is a consideration - and it always is, the level just that varies - then like me I'm pretty sure they will view both the R and RP differently.

Doing a few rough sums, the cost for me of moving to Canon mirrorless is just the cost of the body. If I swap to any other brand, I'm looking at something like £8k and that's not going to happen.
How do you know? I'm pretty sure they want to get as many potential converts as possible, i don't think they made it so budget friendly just for current Canon users. I think they would be much more likely to go with the R. With the RP they definitely had current APSC [any system]/M43 users in mind too, who haven't yet gone FF because of the heft and cost either/or.

I've shot FF in the past, for a number of years, I know and appreciate the benefits - I also didn't need IBIS back then or touch screens or an evf. But once you become accustomed to those features it's very hard drop them just for a better sensor. And as many argue, if it's just the better sensor then why not go with something like an A7RII for about the same price? That has IBIS, a much better sensor and you can adapt Canon lenses to Sony too.

This is why I'm puzzled as to why they didn't make it their business to add IBIS to both R bodies. It's all that was needed to lure many more in, I'm tellin' ya
 
Messages
129
Name
jo
Edit My Images
Yes
I thought those EF lenses adapted work like the RF ones?
They do apart from, not having the adjustment rings on the lens, but otherwise all the information I can find, is that they work well, no loss of focus etc. Just can't use any rings to adjusts setting that you can with the native RF...

I've finally made my choice, I will not just be looking at the R when I'm at the photography show, but hope that I can get a bit of a dea, also intend to get the 24-105mm RF lens (well need at least one native lens)

Even though the RP is cheaper, just too much of a compromise for me in certain area's. But the choice was running 2 systems, as neither mirrorless that ended up on my list, covered all aspects so still needed to keep my kit.

@Cagey75

Probably the ibis will be on the pro level release...

Release the entry level 1st, see how it goes, as know that pro's aren't probably go for the R or RP, but you can test the waters, sort out the bugs... The hit the market with the Pro version which of cause going to be a lot more money, but then you get the pro's interested in, they've followed the R/RP, and the R/RP's all want to . upgrade to their next FF mirrorless...
 
Last edited:
Messages
6,720
Name
Jonathan
Edit My Images
No
They do apart from, not having the adjustment rings on the lens, but otherwise all the information I can find, is that they work well, no loss of focus etc. Just can't use any rings to adjusts setting that you can with the native RF...

I've finally made my choice, I will not just be looking at the R when I'm at the photography show, but hope that I can get a bit of a dea, also intend to get the 24-105mm RF lens (well need at least one native lens)

Even though the RP is cheaper, just too much of a compromise for me in certain area's. But the choice was running 2 systems, as neither mirrorless that ended up on my list, covered all aspects so still needed to keep my kit.
Thought so.
 
Messages
5,061
Name
Robin
Edit My Images
Yes
Apart from any benefits of body size, AF and optics, mirrorless technology has now quickly advanced to a point where it has advantages over D-SLR, just as D-SLR gradually gained advantages over SLR over 30 years ago. The main benefits I find are in the interface and particularly via the electronic viewfinder.

As many here already know, I am lucky enough to be able to choose between an EOS-R and a 1DX-2 (Canon's flagship D-SLR) and it is surprising how often I choose to shoot with the EOS-R. They each have their strengths and weaknesses but.
 
Last edited:
Messages
1,711
Name
Simon
Edit My Images
No
I thought those EF lenses adapted work like the RF ones?
I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve confirmed that EF lenses work perfectly on the EOS R :LOL:. They really, really do :LOL:. I’ve seen nothing but fast, accurate AF in AF-S. I’m less confident with the R in AI Servo, but I would say that is much, much more a function of the body than the lens.
 
Messages
6,720
Name
Jonathan
Edit My Images
No
I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve confirmed that EF lenses work perfectly on the EOS R :LOL:. They really, really do :LOL:. I’ve seen nothing but fast, accurate AF in AF-S. I’m less confident with the R in AI Servo, but I would say that is much, much more a function of the body than the lens.
Yeah I've tried it myself with the 135mm f2 and was very impressed with it.
 
Messages
1,711
Name
Simon
Edit My Images
No
Apart from any benefits of body size, AF and optics, mirrorless technology has now quickly advanced to a point where it has advantages over D-SLR, just as D-SLR gradually gained advantages over SLR over 30 years ago. The main benefits I find are in the interface and particularly via the electronic viewfinder.

As many here already know, I am lucky enough to be able to choose between an EOS-R and a 1DX-2 (Canon's flagship D-SLR) and it is surprising how often I choose to shoot with the EOS-R. They each have their strengths and weaknesses but.
I have an EOS R and a 1D mk IV Robin, and I use the R for everything apart from my motorsport photography. I just find the 1 series camera much more sure footed and accurate in AI Servo for fast moving stuff.

Simon.
 

nandbytes

I owe Cobra some bacon
Messages
4,995
Edit My Images
Yes
I thought those EF lenses adapted work like the RF ones?
AF and optics are moving a target. I still have a old Canon EF 100-300mm. It can AF for sure but its AF is not as good as even the latest tamron 70-300.
I doubt they'll update EF lenses much longer... think we may be seeing last of the EF lens updates soon (if not already ceased)

Being an owner of the RF 50mm, and having used the 28-70; I see no “benefits” of the size in comparison to the nearest EF counterparts :D

All of my adapted lenses, both AF and optically, work amazing too.
Sure but there are also small lenses - RF35, 70-200, 15-35 etc. :)
But you are also kind of proving my point in that you are not adapting EF glass forever, you have already invested in RF glass. I doubt you'll ever see RF level optics on EF. Likelihood is you'll eventually make a full swap. While adapter is nice its a faff unless you have one adapter per lens which can get expensive quickly (also at which point it may be prudent to sell now when there is a market and buy equivalent RF lens when it available) or you have body with adapter permanently stuck to it.
I have been there with adapting some glass and have some native ones. Starts off fun but doesn't cut it tbh, you'll notice its a faff. Same reason I have individual adapter per MF lens I own.
 
Last edited:
Top