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  1. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... *I think you meant to write "RF" lenses. I agree that EF lenses could easily go on for a very long time - Afterall, high quality glass is high quality glass and Canon are acknowledged as producing amongst the very best in the world. Rather like as they are with producing cutting edge blades. Let's not forget that Canon are Japanese.

    Besides, whether I am right or wrong, I don't think that Canon are on a mission to make EF lens users dump their D-SLRs but are simply taking advantage of new technologies (mirrorless in this case) to exploit and expand their whole camera range including not only stills/video EOS but also Cinema EOS systems. I don't understand those who seem convinced that every major corporation is on a mission to steal their money by every underhand means possible.

    I think the future will evolve organically and also with a pinch of market influences.
     
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  2. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... I don't entirely agree.

    Being seriously interested in and having actually bought an EOS R + RF lens, I have read absolutely everything I can find about them and yes, the new R-mount does make photography slightly 'easier' in the sense that it potentially enables. We don't know yet exactly what Canon have in mind for the extra electronic connections on the R-mount but we do know from the release of the latest version III EF supertelephotos that those lenses are taking positive advantages from the R-mount (with adapter of course). So new things are being made potentially possible. Of course the fundamental basics of photography are still unchanged.

    Whereas you Richard (and others on this forum) might take the F/1.4 over an F/1.2 for your own photography and budgets, I am confident from my years of experience art directing various well-known professionals that an albeit heavier larger F/1.2 would be highly desired and used by professionals according to their field. There is more to the new fast RF lenses than many realise yet - For a start, professionals are reporting how particularly sharp they are. Even the RF 24-105mm F/4L IS kit lens has been said to be at least as sharp as the EF 24-70mm F/2.8L IS and sharper than the EF 24-105mm.

    I'm afraid that although I appreciate their good value for money, I personally don't have much faith in Sigma/Tamron lenses when compared with Canon's when mounted on Canon cameras. It's a very competitive market and you tend to get what you pay for. In my opinion.
     
  3. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni

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    There's an interesting interview with Mike Burnhill from Canon Europe at Photokina HERE, and the main points are listed HERE.

    No new EF leses next year.
     
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  4. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    That's hardly surprising, given that there are 70-odd of them already (too many to count!) and Canon is well into the business of mostly releasing updates (EF Mk2 and Mk3 versions) rather than all-new specifications.

    Canon's first priority is to at least get a decent set of key lenses out in RF, particularly the Holy Trinity of 16-35, 24-70 and 70-200. That'll keep them plenty busy.
     
  5. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    [Mini rant]

    I wish people would stop referencing professionals, wedding photographers and vloggers as examples of significant buyer groups that are somehow of overriding importance. They're not, even if they make a disproportionate amount of noise. They're a tiny proportion of the overall amateur enthusiast market where Canikson earn their corn.

    [/rant] :D
     
  6. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... This is not only interesting but highly informative - Thanks for posting it, Toni! It answers so many of the questions and criticisms from people on this forum and elsewhere online. Canon's ethos and design approach is very much one of the reasons I stay with Canon. I would go as far as suggesting that every photographer who is seriously considering buying an EOS R should watch this interview.

    I was right in what I said earlier about the R development being led by the lenses. Mike Burnhill stated that Canon would return to developing EF lenses after next year.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
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  7. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... In my referencing professionals in my direct response #82 to your comments, I was merely saying that an extremely fast lump of lens was very desirable to some photographers even if not to yourself, or indeed to myself. It depends on your field of photography and the funds you have available. Having said that, I would still want a Canon 500mm F/2.8L IS even though my F/4L II does the job and gets me great results when I nail it.

    You are right in suggesting that the amateur enthusiast market makes up the largest proportion of sales and this is confirmed in the interview with Canon Europe's Mike Burnhill in which he used the terms "serious amateur" and "semi-professional".

    Fortunately Canon don't ignore the needs of an apparent minority of serious professional photographers. You have to sell 10 lenses costing £500 each to equal the sale of 1 lens costing £5,000 < I think I know what Lord Sugar would say :D.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
  8. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    But with respect, I don't think many people would actually want a 500/2.8. There are limits - it would be impossibly huge and heavy, not to mention a four-figure cost (correction: well into five figures :eek:). The current 400/2.8 represents the limit of what Canon thinks is feasible (ditto Nikon) and the R-mount won't change that (apart from making it an inch longer).

    And while I see where you're coming from with the 'lenses first' thing and can relate to it personally, lenses are not what presses most people's buttons. It's cameras first, and without that any new lenses are much less important (given the vast existing EF range that's fully compatible). Of course, we need both but Canon has a lot of work to do on the cameras front first if mirrorless is to truly take off.

    Put it another way, when Canon come out with a few more R-mount lenses, as they will, I wouldn't expect to see another 70-80 page thread dedicated to them - as we've seen with both the Canon EOS-R and Nikon Zed cameras.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
  9. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... If you were either to talk to a few serious wildlife photographers, or go out in the field at dawn and towards dusk when you can often see more wildlife to photograph (dependent on species) then I think you would quickly want both the max aperture and ISO benefits of a F/2.8L supertelephoto if only because of when you add an Extender to the mix. I was assuming that like the Canon EF 400mm DO, such a lens would not necessarily be huge and heavy and in fact might be lighter. The EF 500mm F/4L II already costs a four-figure sum (£8,500 when I last looked) but nearly all the wildlife toggers I know personally shoot with either the (EF) 500mm or (EF) 600mm primes including Nikon shooters.

    We should all keep an open mind because we don't actually know what a 500mm RF mount lens might be like and we don't even know if Canon will or won't offer us one. The EF 600mm F/4L IS III weighs about the same as the EF 500mm F/4L II. But it will cost you about 13,000 squid < I know two photographers intending to buy one, one is a professional and the other a serious amateur and both shoot wildlife - There is demand as Canon well know. Hell yeah, I would even consider one myself if it was a 600mm DO version as strongly rumoured and displayed as an actual model at a show in late 2016.

    .... I'm expecting the future to be very much as Canon Europe's Mike Burnhill says in his interview (link in Reply #83) > D-SLR and mirrorless lenses will be developed side by side as manufacturing resources allow (have you ever seen a video of a big Canon lens being manufactured? Think traditional Japanese Samurai blades). No reliable clues yet about the longer term future of Canon's D-SLR bodies but mirrorless has already taken off (EOS M series) - It's just in its earlier stages of FF development and being worked on even now as we speak (perhaps not literally because it's currently about 3:00am in Tokyo).

    The future looks exciting and I am already beginning to think that my EOS R has more potential for me to unlock as I become more familiar and shoot with it more. I badly need CR3 support in my RAW editor!
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
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  10. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    Jarod's style of presentation is not to everyone's taste but he is very informative in his reviews and in this 48-minute video he gives a broad real-world workout with the EOS R and various lenses at a fair. He later shows and discusses his resulting images back in his studio. His conclusion about the EOS R and Canon's mirrorless future is well reasoned too.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C791UkqhBU8
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
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  11. srhmoto

    srhmoto

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    Met up with a good friend of mine today who I hadn’t seen for ages. He brought along a 135mm f2 L and an 85mm F1.2 L. I gave both lenses a go wide open using face tracking / eye priority, and was very happy with the results. We had some good light (for a change), and of the photos I took, all we’re nailed absolutely bang on. However, the system seemed quite easily fooled by the flat cap my friend was wearing. With it pulled down, the camera would as often as not fail to see find his face in the frame. Wearing the cap more normally didn’t create any problems. I was pleased with the results, particularly at F1.2.

    Cheers,

    Simon.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
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  12. srhmoto

    srhmoto

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    Watched that the other night. A very thorough and honest review I thought.

    Simon.
     
  13. woof woof

    woof woof

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    There are those who say that the smart move is the f1.8 option, if there is one, and I think I'm beginning to believe that now. There seem to be few situations that I want f1.x now especially as the dof is negligible and higher ISO performance is better than ever. Saving bulk, weight and maybe but not always cost (see the Sony 55mm f1.8 which is excellent but not all that cheap) by going for the f1.8 option is starting to look like the smart move to me.
     
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  14. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    True enough, though it's a heart vs head thing. The heart says we want f/1.4 (so 1.2 must be even better) but for most people we just don't actually need that at all, or very rarely. Unfortunately, logic and common sense often take a back seat in the important business of shinies :D
     
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  15. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... :LOL:

    I wonder how many of us GAS sufferers actually buy only what we need. I say always follow your heart in everything in life :D
     
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  16. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    If you have an hour to spare and want to hear a busy professional photographer who isn't a Canon Ambassador, loudly enthusing about the EOS R, then watch this video.

    He does have some interesting things to say and especially comparing using his 1DX (700,000 actuations) for the last 6 years.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlo7JaHhi9Q


    If he is so wildly enthusiastic about this first R body, I reckon he'll be uncontrollably ecstatic about an EOS R Pro version!
     
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  17. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  18. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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  19. Chipper

    Chipper

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    Well, I haven't watched the video you just posted about Robin; I might watch the shorter one - waiting for a parcel at the moment - you say that they say that various things have a future but surely the market will dictate that? I hope they continue DSLR in tandem with mirrorless. I find myself not having bought a camera body iin 18 months and find that I have what I want - I don't want my kit to become expensive doorstops because Canonn won't repair them... I know that is sometime down the road and hopefully not for some time. I was also interested to read GoGaBu discussing the R and finding it a useful part of his kit. Interesting times!

    I just watched a a bit - it looks quite interesting... I am steeling myself against a GAS attack!
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  20. woof woof

    woof woof

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    Canon will no doubt repair stuff after it's been superseded by newer models, for years. I don't know what the legislation says about camera gear but I'll eat my shorts if manufacturers don't have to support kit for a number of years after production ends. It was 10 years for the products I used to be involved with. Even after the manufacturers have stopped support will be available from third party specialist repairers.

    Don't worry :D
     
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  21. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... Yes, the Canon guy interviewed did include saying that the market would influence the their way forward.

    Other interviews with Canon officials also confirm this one in saying that D-SLR development and also EF lenses will continue alongside the R and RF.

    .... And as Alan says, the specialist repairers will continue their support but can only do so for as long as they can obtain spare parts. Canon don't do repairs themselves, they farm repairs out to approved specialists. Any repairs I have had I have saved a lot of time and money from the retailers by going directly to the officially approved repairers - Companies such as Fixation in London and A.J.Johnstone in Glasgow.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  22. Tdes

    Tdes

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    Interesting watch, thank you for posting!
     
  23. simonbarker

    simonbarker

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    While there's a huge user base for EF lenses you have no worries at all but you should also realise no company is going to tell you when they stop actively developing a range if they're still trying to sell it.
     
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  24. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    Yup
     
  25. Fordsabroad

    Fordsabroad

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    Hi all
    I have just been seduced by an offer on a display model of an EOS R body and adapter at HDEW cameras for £1749, definitely a case of want rather than need!
    Just like RedRobin this will compliment rather than replace my 1DX mkii.
    Maybe RedRobin is the best person to answer this question but anyone else is most welcome to comment. I will shoot in Raw but, from a quick read of the manual it seems to imply that selecting dual pixel raw is only useful if using DPP and slows focussing down. What is the advantage of Dual Pixel Raw over normal RAW?
     
  26. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... Sure but my glass is always half full rather than half empty - I enjoy living my life as an optimist. Even if Canon pulled the plug on all EF lens production literally today, worse things happen at sea and I already have the EF lenses I need and can continue shooting with.

    I think I read somewhere that Canon have sold 130 million EF lenses so far.

    Are you worried about EF lenses stopping development soon?
     
  27. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... Hi Gordon,

    As you have read, there is no advantage in shooting Dual Pixel RAW unless you convert and post-process in Canon's DPP and that 'advantage' has anyway been widely reported as almost negligible and not worthwhile.

    The AF capability of the Dual Pixel Sensor is a different matter entirely but the terms are easily confused.

    Which RAW converter and editor are you intending to use for the CR3 files please?

    HDEW and Wex are my main suppliers < Both excellent in my experience.
     
  28. simonbarker

    simonbarker

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    On a practical level I'd benefit more from them stopping development, there's a few Canon's I'd like but can't justify, people upgrading makes for a much nicer used market.

    Not at all, I personally believe they'll be making older mount lenses for longer than any of the competition, one of the benefits of being on Canon is they're least likely to suffer from a shifting market.
     
  29. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... Agreed. Canon seem to have the attitude that they don't care what their competition is doing because they prefer to listen to their customers and develop their products accordingly. Of course this isn't entirely true because they are commercial organisation obliged to make profits but nevertheless they hint quite openly that this is their attitude. They very rarely even mention their competitors unless directly asked and even then they simply answer by saying why they are doing what they have done < Their comments about IBIS is a good example. I think they are above trashing their competitors and I personally admire that trait - We are submitted to hearing too much of some people negatively trashing others, British politics is a good example.

    In interviews in which the marmite Multi Function Bar has been discussed, Canon have said quite clearly that subject to customer feedback it's a feature they may drop. However, I expect they might explore whether they can improve it first.
     
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  30. Fordsabroad

    Fordsabroad

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    Hi Rob
    Not got as far as considering what I will use for converting the CR3 files. I was assuming they would be handled by LR, if this is not the case I will have to load Canons DPP and use that.
     
  31. redhed17

    redhed17

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    Seem to have the attitude. ;) Maybe they listen to there customers not being able to have features that another brand has rather than seeing what their opposition goes with regards to sales. :LOL: I don't think there would be a 7D without the D300, and no 5DS and 5DS-R without the D800. But then there would probably not be a D800 in the first place without the original 5D. Each tries to get a technological advantage over the other and slowly iterates until the other makes a big leap in some way. :rolleyes:

    I haven't much love for the slider. :thinking: I wouldn't be surprised to see a joystick return, and the slider disappear, and maybe even the rear wheel come back, at least on a higher spec model.
     
  32. Phil V

    Phil V

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    Once you’ve used the touch screen to move the focus point, the joystick feels very old fashioned (it’s as intuitive as eye controlled focus was on my film slrs)i. And again, Canon appear to have produced a superior touchscreen to the opposition.

    Again, people make a lot of noise about Canons missing features, or what they do less well, but a lot of their boring taken for granted stuff is just as good or better than the competition.
     
  33. redhed17

    redhed17

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    The joystick and rear wheel were 'the boring taken for granted things', and they took them away. ;)

    I'm just going by what I've read by people who have used the camera with regards to the joystick especially. A higher spec camera may be trying to appeal to pro's/well heeled enthusiasts ;) using 1DX level cameras, so having a similar interface would be an advantage imho to make the transition, or more probably integration, easier. Having similar and/or extra functions on the touchscreen can only be a good thing with regards to choice.
     
  34. Phil V

    Phil V

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    I’ve seen people complain about the lack of joystick... but I’ve seen no one who’s used the touch screen for any amount of time complain. It’s just a better interface, faster and more precise.

    I’m surprised the slide bar doesn’t ‘just work’, my guess is that if it doesn’t improve shortly it will be short lived.
     
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  35. redhed17

    redhed17

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    Just got round to watching this. The perfect wedding camera, and maybe even the perfect camera, becasue there didn't seem to be much wrong with it. :eek: Who knew. :LOL: Glad he was so happy with his purchase. :)
     
  36. Tdes

    Tdes

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    When using the eos R with the EF adapter, does the adapter stay on the camera body when changing lenses or do you have to take it off, then put it on the new lens before putting back on the camera?

    Just curious...

    T
     
  37. Cagey75

    Cagey75

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    Since I've started using touch screen to pin-point focus I think I would find it very hard to go without. It's much more effective than I would have imagined previous. So long as you're using a TS that is ultra responsive, no lag, no having to hammer the screen for it to respond. Both Panasonic and Canon have this nailed, Fuji are getting there but most reviews of the T3 report irritating lag, that extra mili-second for the camera to react can be enough to miss a shot.
     
  38. srhmoto

    srhmoto

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    Yes. At least that’s what I’ve done ie left the adaptor on and just changed the lenses.

    Simon.
     
  39. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    Either way.

    If you have all EF lenses, then just one adapter and leave it on the camera. If it's a mixture of EF and ER, then it might make sense to get an adapter for each EF lens and leave it on there.
     
  40. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... Yes, either way is fine but ALWAYS switch off the body power before you do either mount or unmount anything.

    Buying an EF adapter for each lens, Rich, could be mighty expensive and if you also shoot with an EF mount body it doesn't really help.

    I have just had an email from Wex to say my EOS R Control Ring Adapter is on its way to me - Yippee!! This means I can customise everything to match my 1DX-2, and vica-versa, as much as possible so that I can rely mostly on muscle memory.
     

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