1. robinsslee

    robinsslee

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    The EOS-R will allow AF at f/11, whereas the traditional DSLR only up to F/8, this includes 1Dx II.

    On the other note, I will skip this body for now as FPS is lacking especially on Servo mode. Sensor is identical to 5D IV so no improvement there :(

    Perhaps I should welcome A7RIII as potential 5DsR replacement.
     
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  2. Canon Bob

    Canon Bob Loves the Enemy

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    As I stated a couple of posts earlier, a DSLR (including the 1Dx II) will AF at f/11 when using contrast detect AF
     
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  3. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... Good point about silent shooting when on remotely controlled wildlife shooting, which I do occasionally. Unfortunately, on the EOS R the already slow fps takes an even bigger hit on silent mode and also when shooting Dual Pixel RAW. If the battery is low it might even dip below 3 fps!!

    However, what did we do before cameras offered us frame rates? Perhaps a lack of decent fps tests our timing skills. It depends entirely on the subject you are shooting. For example, when remotely shooting a dragonfly landing I need high fps and use my 1DX-2 at 14fps (its default setting in my case) and it doesn't need to be silent because dragonflies don't react to sound but to movement. If shooting a deer (with camera rather than gun) or wild boar etc, then silent shutter is going to be the best option but unless the animal is in motion, high fps is far less important. I find that the sound of a shutter can sometimes be desirable when photographing perched birds because they hear it and freeze to look in your direction, which can also happen with animals. On the other hand if you shoot weddings and people, then silent shooting is more valuable.

    Being light and relatively compact (the EOS M5 is much too small for my liking) is exactly a fundamental reason for replacing my M5 with the R and primarily either mounting my Canon EF 100mm F/2.8L IS Macro or RF 24-105mm IS on it.

    Agreed, Alan's post is a good one.
     
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  4. robinsslee

    robinsslee

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    I don't think 1Dx II will AF using 100-400mm II + 2xIII converter.
     
  5. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... The EOS R fps is shockingly low and the worst case scenario is when also shooting Dual Pixel RAW (which is always what I do). It's the one potential deal breaker which had made me very unsure about buying one but against that the articulated touchscreen (which I enjoyed on the 70D I had) is a very big plus for my photography and anyway I can shoot at 14 fps on my D-SLR. I have my ideal features by having to use two bodies instead of all-in-one, but the plus is that I avoid wasting valuable time and keep faffing around changing lenses in the field with possibly airborn pollen and debris flying around.

    I don't think that the R sensor is literally identical to to the 5D-4 but perhaps it's as near as damn it. But the latest Digic 8 processor and other more recently developed internal actions within the R body will play a role, especially when coupled with RF lenses methinks.

    Why move to another brand if you have high-end EOS system gear? - It's a personal choice of course and I'm not suggesting it's an unwise move but only that I personally wouldn't decide to make that move. I like too much about Canon's EOS system and believe that no camera is perfect, it's just a tool.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 10:03 AM
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  6. woof woof

    woof woof

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    I was lucky as the last time I switched to another brand it hardly cost me at all and in fact I sold a couple of lenses for more than I paid for them. I usually try to offset the cost of buying new stuff by selling some little used stuff and at the moment I have far too many film era manual primes but honestly it doesn't seem worth the hassle of trying to sell them for the money I'd get.
     
  7. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... I have that combo but never use the 2x on that lens. The 100-400mm L II works well with the 1.4x III though but of course slightly slows down AF when tracking in AI SERVO but you can still get great shots once you can nail the focus.

    Regardless of which body I have mounted, the 2x III works surprisingly well on a supertelephoto such as the 500mm F/4L II and yet some folks wouldn't agree. Here's my Flickr album as proof : https://www.flickr.com/photos/114775606@N07/albums/72157685377629534
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 10:29 AM
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  8. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    EOS-R only has phase-detect AF, no contrast-detect. It's apparently limited to f/11 (all points active) vs f/8 for the best DSLRs in phase-detect mode (centre only).

    Canon seems to have nailed its colours firmly to dual-pixel PD-AF, not sure what the significant differences are and can't seem to find much detailed technical info. Edit: anybody got any links? Edit2: found this relating to the 70D from 2014 which explains a bit more
    https://www.imaging-resource.com/ne...-autofocus-secrets-of-the-canon-70d-explained
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 10:51 AM
  9. Canon Bob

    Canon Bob Loves the Enemy

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    The 400/5.6 + 2xIII will AF on a 1DxII using contrast detect AF so I'm not sure why the 100-400 won't do the same.
     
  10. robinsslee

    robinsslee

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    In comparison with 5DsR, EOS R it seems taking a step backward with this body. I have plenty of successful rate of BiF in Florida, gannets and puffins with 5DsR. The only wish I had with 5DsR is bigger buffer. Hence the next high MP camera I am looking at is A7RIII as the next one up, not down. This also suggest that the next R Mount high MP camera (potentially 5DsR successor) is going to be a low FPS potentially low buffer camera :(

    R sensor may not be identical to 5D4 but it's performance is, hence many users think that Canon has hit the peak of their sensor design or if they decrease it's true performance via software, we do not know. We will see this as an non-upgrade new sensor which brings to disappointment to some end users.

    In comparison of high MP, apart from Nikon D850 and Z7 which I never consider (due to F-Mount), A7RIII comes close to what I am anticipating for the next upgrade from Canon. FE Mount allows adaptation (MC-11 or Metabones) of Canon EF lenses, autofocus and MF focus peaking (I have Zeiss and OM lenses) which I love to use. A7RIII offers 10fps when I need (wildlife), small enough to use for street or city photography, lighter (when using small lenses) great for travel and hiking (savings may not be much but it is still saving). I have never consider Sony until they have released 400mm 2.8. Canon has latest one but the cost is comparable so Sony A7RIII + Sony A9 is a viable option. As for now, I am keeping 1DxII and thinking of replacing the 5DsR with A7RIII, I still and, can use all my EF lenses. As for landscape/wide angle shots, I am happy with manual focus lenses to manual exposures because it's darn easy.

    If Canon hasn't have the limitation on the FPS on the EOS R, I would have look into buying into RF mount but as for now, I will wait for 2-3 next generation before considering this. Having said that, Sony maybe so much ahead by then. But, that 50mm 1.2 RF is drolling elbeit the size and weight.

    I agree camera is just a tool, but if the equivalent tool offered by other parties has better specification, better FPS, you can adapt your EF lenses and most importantly the cost comparison between them is negligible (grey market), I cannot ignore these advantages viable options.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 10:33 AM
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  11. simonbarker

    simonbarker

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    Not quite what I meant.

    When you set the camera to a small aperture (say f/11) as it's a mirrorless system the screen will darken, is there a setting to disable this behaviour?

    At the same setting if you're in Servo AF how does the auto focus behave? If I compare to some other systems in this same scenario it'll attempt to lock focus wide open then stop down to the selected aperture and stay there while attempting to keep getting focus (which doesn't work very well).
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 10:58 AM
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  12. Gaz J

    Gaz J

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    It does Bob and if it’s not too far out it does it reasonably quickly.
     
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  13. robinsslee

    robinsslee

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  14. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... You are absolutely right : Everyone's individual needs and preferences are different and furthermore, thank goodness for Canon's extensive customisation options.

    I have yet to understand the logic of 8 fps on ONE SHOT but only 3 fps (I only shoot RAW) on AI SERVO. Surely it should be the other way around!? It's almost a deal breaker for me but the fully articulated touchscreen wins!

    I rarely change mode and think it's probably easier with the right hand than a clunky top dial on the lefthand side. The 1DX-2 has a Mode button on the left topside and so I'm halfway familiar anyway.

    Unlike many photographers I rarely change AF points and anyway I think it's just a matter of getting used to slightly different ways of operation. I have owned and used cameras without joysticks anyway - The mirrorless EOS M5 I'm replacing with the R doesn't have a joystick.

    I only use a second card as overflow even if some will say that's unwise but I'm not a professional being paid for my results. Again I have owned cameras with only a single card slot and am personally not bothered.

    However I am very disappointed about the R slooow fps and, if a future R body has a much higher fps AND has an articulated touchscreen, I will consider swopping.

    You probably already know that Canon are strongly rumoured to be announcing the next R body in January and releasing it sometime in 2019. At my age I don't want to wait and my acquisition of this first R body (and RF 24-105mm) streamlines my EOS system. I can work with and still take pictures I like with only 3 fps on one of my two bodies. As always, it's Horses-for-Courses.
     
  15. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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  16. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... Thanks for explaining your original question, Simon - Appreciated.

    I always shoot with AF-ON as Back-Button-Focus and also the adjacent asterix icon button customised to AI-SERVO (I'll have to use another shortcut to AI-SERVO on the R body). And so when AF and exposure are separated, won't the shutter button controlling the exposure feed that info into the viewfinder while the AF actions are managed independently?

    If I hadn't always used Manual Focus on my mirrorless M5 because the only possible Back-Button-Focus button is so very badly positioned (another reason I will be glad to see it replaced with the R body) and also because Peak Focussing only displays on the mirrorless M5 in MF and MF is best for the inevitable critically shallow DoF when shooting close-up/macro.

    If I can shoot images like this (dragonfly) on a small and awkward to handle mirrorless EOS M5 which also has a very limited tilt screen, then the future bodes very well for my enjoyment of the EOS R [only a few hours now before it is in my hands!].

    [​IMG]UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AND NOT SHY by Robin Procter, on Flickr

    ^ Sorry, I know some of you have seen this photo before.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 11:06 AM
  17. robinsslee

    robinsslee

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    Not that I care about this contrast detect or phase detect, however if it AF at f/11 and accurate, happy days.
     
  18. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... This Robin totally sees and understands another Robin's point of view and what makes total sense for you in the real-world.

    Happy Hunting & Shooting!
     
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  19. robinsslee

    robinsslee

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    And if I happen to be on your area let's meet up for a cuppa and photo shoot :D
     
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  20. simonbarker

    simonbarker

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    Well it depends on the implementation Canon went with, I've tried looking through the manual, couldn't find mention of an option to disable the image preview exposure adjustment on screen but the option must be there somewhere. I expect you're correct but would like to have it confirmed, sooner or later I'll trudge down to a shop and see for myself if no one gets around to confirming.

    Sounds like it's going to be a good match for you.
     
  21. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    They're very different. Contrast-detect AF is live-view only.
     
  22. robinsslee

    robinsslee

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    Thanks.

    Both CDAF and PDAF AF on 1DxII at f/11 ? Ta.
     
  23. Canon Bob

    Canon Bob Loves the Enemy

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    No, PDAF is limited to f/8
     
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  24. StewartR

    StewartR Efrem Zimbalist Jr Advertiser

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    Of course. Currently on order, delivery date not yet known.

    Apologies for the delayed reply but I've been away and off the grid for two weeks.
     
  25. nandbytes

    nandbytes

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    any ideas on the initial pricing and if/when you'll have 35mm f1.8 macro in stock?
     
  26. HoppyUK

    HoppyUK

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    And contrast-detect with DSLRs is next to useless if not on a tripod - ponderously slow and live-view only.

    AF operation is one of the fundamental differences with mirrorless cameras that cannot use the separate phase-detect AF module common to DSLRs which is a very strong performance feature honed to high standards over the years. Mirrorless has only recently caught up, or to be more accurate only Sony has recently caught up.
     
  27. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    There's a lot of opportunities when the af module is part of the sensor. You can implement ai for example that will benefit af and make it more intelligent
     
  28. Fraser Euan White

    Fraser Euan White

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    Just stunning! - It is so refreshing to see exceptional images on a 'gear thread' to show that a spec sheet doesn't take amazing pictures! Indicates a person who quite clearly knows what he wants from his cameras :)
     
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  29. redhed17

    redhed17

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    Which makes it odd that Panasonic are seemingly going with contrast AF for their FF mirrorless.

    The best AF for mirrorless may be a combination of phase and contrast AF. Best of both if done well.
     
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  30. StewartR

    StewartR Efrem Zimbalist Jr Advertiser

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    Yes, and no.

    By and large our pricing is driven by the cost of purchasing the kit. The EOS R is launching at £2349 which is pretty similar to the price of the 5D Mk III when it launched, so I think we'll be looking at something like £130-ish for 3 days, £195-ish for 7 days. The RF 35mm f/1.8 Macro is launching at £519, which is similar to the EF 24mm f/2.8 IS, so I'd expect to price that at something like £30-ish for 3 days, £45-ish for 7 days.
     
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  31. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... No problem Stewart and thanks for getting back to me.

    Canon suddenly released the EOS R into the retail stockists and mine, together with RF 24-105mm kit lens arrived today. I am able to return it if I don't like it but based on feel, ergonomics and controls layout so far I think that's highly unlikely!
     
  32. robinsslee

    robinsslee

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    Looking forward to your review :banana::canon:
     
  33. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    Right! I have unboxed it and no way am I going to be making an unboxing video or indeed any video review etc.

    THIS IS NOT A REVIEW!

    I haven't loaded the battery yet! - I already have several of the LP-E6N batteries and 2 charged up full this morning in readiness. So this post is just my initial thoughts about it and the RF 24-105mm supplied with it.

    Regardless of the yet to be experienced by me performance and anticipated 30Mp FF image quality etc my first concerns were size, ergonomics and physical controls layout, so here goes. Please bear in mind that this camera body is very specifically to replace my small mirrorless EOS M5 with its EF adapter. But becoming part of my camera gear system I have a number of combo options.

    The size is just right for my use, small enough to fit my Lowepro Toploader when either the RF 24-105mm or the EF 100mm is mounted. And big enough to give me easy access to the body controls < Something I was particularly concerned about after the my compact M5.

    The grip and general ergonomics are up to Canon's usual high standards in this aspect. If I mount it on my EF 500mm then a battery grip would improve handling but only when handheld shooting (not often with that big lens).

    The ON/OFF switch is very positive and very easy - Same position as the 7D-2 and 5D-4 but a much more ergo design. I wish the 1DX-2 ON/OFF switch was like this - It's frankly awful and p***es me off every time I use it.

    A real biggie for me is the positions of the AF-ON and adjacent star icon button for Back-Button-Focus and Continuous tracking. I can still roll my thumb between them and unlike as some reviewers have reported, the new Multi-Function Slider is well out of the way and to the extent that I really don't understand what they were talking about! So my muscle memory will not have to adapt between my R and 1DX-2 < That's another box ticked and for me one which could have seen me returning this camera.

    I usually shoot Manual-mode and so the top control wheel on my cameras are always set to control the aperture and the back wheel the shutter speed - I think this is the opposite of Canon's default. My muscle memory is going to have to adapt to use the ring around the Mode button instead for the shutter speed but as the R is literally half the size and much lighter weight than the 1DX-2, I don't think I'm going to be in any doubt which I am shooting with!

    A lot of photographers have been critical of there being no Joystick but that lower wheel in the R is smaller than I thought it would be and, subject to shooting with it, I don't think it will be as bad as people think. However, I think I would have preferred an EOS D-SLR style Joystick where it usually is and where the INFO button is on the R. The Q button being combined with the SET button is a nice touch as it now becomes easier to find without looking away from the viewfinder.

    Regarding the square top screen being where you can see Mode changes (as well as in the viewfinder I hope and expect!) instead of etched on a chunky rotating dial, I think this is a positive improvement. Afterall you look down on the dial so why not look down for the same info on a screen. The mode dial has moved around from one side to the other with various Canon EOS bodies anyway, so what's the difference.

    At last Canon have properly sorted out being able to very easily open and use the adjustable back screen < There is a good sized recess plus a groove in the screen surround which has been well thought through in its design.

    This first R body feels relatively light in weight but the carcass is strong magnesium and the whole feels and looks very good quality.

    I have been consciously trying not to get carried away with Canon-lurve and my enthusiasm for a new toy and consequently to keep my judgements as objective as possible. But try as I may, so far before actually shooting with it I am not at all disappointed. I think that having the option to return it enables me to be more objective instead of trying to convince myself that I made the right purchasing decision.

    MY FIRST IMPRESSION OF THE 24-105mm RF LENS (supplied as an optional kit).

    Again, not actually shot with yet! I want to take my time setting things up first.

    It's not lightweight! But it feels very high quality. The RF lens and body caps are different from the EF ones and not interchangeable and so it might be somewhat inconvenient if swopping between RF and EF lenses in the field. I guess it's a small price to pay for a new lens mount structure and what it can bring to the party.

    The zoom ring feels possibly a tad too stiff but I'll judge it again when shooting. On the other hand, better tight than loose (said the bishop to the actress, or something like that). Apparently when a RF lens is mounted there is an option to read the distance in the viewfinder < I like that a lot if it's true (without going into lengthy descriptions of why). In some ways I would have liked to be able to lock the zoom in any position as on the 100-400mm L II instead of only being able to lock at 24mm zoom.

    The manual focus ring is up to Canon L lens usual high standard.

    The new Control Ring feature feels absolutely gorgeous! Soft rolling notches in feel and I can't wait to program and use it - That's going to be very enabling. Same with the Control Ring EF Adapter I have on order.

    The EF Adapter comes with a pouch but it's a pity that Canon didn't include a belt loop on it. Lowepro could teach them a thing or too about bags!

    As has been said many times by most of us, we each have our different preferences and needs but I hope that me sharing my thoughts is helpful to readers.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 6:32 PM
  34. niko

    niko

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    thanks for taking the time to post, sounds very promising. really glad canon have gone with the bigger body size on this.
     
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  35. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    Make a video. That's where all the money is at. Not in photography hehe
     
  36. RedRobin

    RedRobin

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    .... I'm going to take an iPhone snap of my *M5, EOS R, *7D-2, and 1DX-2 bodies together (*while I still have them) and post it here to give an indication of the size differences. If someone wants the actual measurements the info can be Google'd online.

    The deep ergonomically designed grip is key to the whole body feeling just right and a very size-efficient < Not too small and not too big.

    I just don't understand those who want to stick to the body shapes and chunky controls which belonged to a past technology. Some of the same folks care too much about what the camera looks like to outsiders - Surely you pose FOR the camera and not pose WITH the camera?

    Doubtless I'll have more to post about the EOS R tomorrow and I'm actually looking forward to seeing how it performs in low light as it's claimed to be good at that.

    Trouble is that I only shoot RAW and I don't use Lightroom and no other RAW editor is CR3 friendly yet. Can I Export CR3 files as TIFFS from DPP? I have never used Canon's DPP.
     
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  37. robinsslee

    robinsslee

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  38. SsSsSsSsSnake

    SsSsSsSsSnake

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    and some mealworms? :D
     
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  39. simonbarker

    simonbarker

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    Remember to talk about anything other than what the video is supposed to be about for the first 10 minutes. That seems to be the in thing for vloggers.
     
  40. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza

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    Yea innit. Lol
     

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