Canon FF mirrorless...

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.... I'm going to take an iPhone snap of my *M5, EOS R, *7D-2, and 1DX-2 bodies together (*while I still have them) and post it here to give an indication of the size differences. If someone wants the actual measurements the info can be Google'd online.

The deep ergonomically designed grip is key to the whole body feeling just right and a very size-efficient < Not too small and not too big.

I just don't understand those who want to stick to the body shapes and chunky controls which belonged to a past technology. Some of the same folks care too much about what the camera looks like to outsiders - Surely you pose FOR the camera and not pose WITH the camera?

Doubtless I'll have more to post about the EOS R tomorrow and I'm actually looking forward to seeing how it performs in low light as it's claimed to be good at that.

Trouble is that I only shoot RAW and I don't use Lightroom and no other RAW editor is CR3 friendly yet. Can I Export CR3 files as TIFFS from DPP? I have never used Canon's DPP.
I was hoping it would feel like a 6d in the hand, so a bit smaller/lighter than the 5 series but not much. seems to be about right to me. hopefully I will get a chance to feel one in the hand at some point
 
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I was hoping it would feel like a 6d in the hand, so a bit smaller/lighter than the 5 series but not much. seems to be about right to me. hopefully I will get a chance to feel one in the hand at some point
.... I have only very briefly handled a 6D-2 and so can't make a meaningful comment about that size comparison. But I have been handling just the R body quite a lot while watching TV this evening [sorry if that sounds either weird or inappropriate, or both!] and it has struck me that it is very like the 70D I used to have. The friend I sold my 70D to when I upgraded to a 7D-2 is away on holiday until Sunday but I know her well enough to visit and make a direct size comparison which I'm interested to do if only just for myself.

I no longer have a 5D-4 but I recall it was very similar in size to my 7D-2 (which I still have) but the R body is noticeably smaller than the 7D-2 and is slimmer and less bulky. An image I dragged off the hyperinterwebbynet :



The proof of any pudding is in the eating [says Robin in a Nigella Lawson voice] and so I'll see what I think about its size after shooting with it. But I will be surprised if I don't still really like its size and ergonomics.

Features which I might feel disappointed in when I start shooting with it are the Multi Function Slider Bar and of course the painfully slow fps rate in the settings where I want it to be at its fastest.

Battery life is another area where I might be disappointed but I do already have five (now six) LP-E6N batteries. Mirrorless cameras seem to drink much more battery juice than D-SLR. The optional battery grip would help but it would add a lot of bulk and cancel out much of the size advantage.
 
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.... Thanks for confirming that. Then until Capture One catches up and becomes CR3-friendly I'll load into DPP and Export as TIFFs for any further editing in my usual workflow before a final JPEG export.

I don't bother shooting JPEGs as RAW has so much more potential to extract when editing what I saw and did my best to capture.
 
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Battery life is another area where I might be disappointed but I do already have five (now six) LP-E6N batteries. Mirrorless cameras seem to drink much more battery juice than D-SLR. The optional battery grip would help but it would add a lot of bulk and cancel out much of the size advantage.
The way they measure battery life doesn't make much sense for mirrorless systems, that's why they state an extremely low number of shots per battery.

Having not used the Canon I can't be certain but the normal rule is if you take lots of photos you'll get more out of one battery than on a DSLR but if you leave the camera on and do nothing with it the DSLR can last a lot longer.
 
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You can see the size comparison between the EOS R and the 7DII here.

And a size comparison between the EOS r and 6DII here.

The 7DII is slightly larger than the 6DII.

Obviously compared to the other two cameras the 7DII does have the benefit 10 fps continuous shooting with autofocus. ;) :rolleyes: Swings and roundabouts eh! :LOL:
 
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The way they measure battery life doesn't make much sense for mirrorless systems, that's why they state an extremely low number of shots per battery.

Having not used the Canon I can't be certain but the normal rule is if you take lots of photos you'll get more out of one battery than on a DSLR but if you leave the camera on and do nothing with it the DSLR can last a lot longer.
.... I leave my D-SLR switched ON when I'm out in the field so I'm more instantly ready to shoot if an animal suddenly is spotted.

A mirrorless camera is using battery juice constantly while switched on mostly because of feeding the EVF and particularly if the back display screen is also on.

With this in mind I have just been playing with my mirrorless Canon EOS R ON-OFF switch and it's perfectly positioned for your lefthand thumb and its knurled dial offers excellent grip on the switch dial. So this means that when out in the field the time switching on the camera when spotting a target is absolutely minimal and can even be done while lifting the camera to the eye. Perhaps the ON-OFF switch on the 1DX-2 which I have been so critical of is actually designed to be awkward and left ON while shooting. I have often been out from dawn til dusk with 1DX-2 left ON and only switching it OFF while mounting/unmounting extenders - I only shoot RAW and can easily record 1,500 images before changing battery, but look at that huge battery size (and forget the cost of the spare!) < Having such battery longevity is a nice feeling though and they recharge extremely quickly in easily less than half the time of a LP-E6N.

Any camera with its GPS option enabled will also drink more battery juice, same equivalent as in mobile phones.

As I physically familiarise myself by playing with just the EOS R body and I still haven't loaded a battery and fired it up, it has become very obvious to me that the Canon R's team of body designers are seriously good at their job.

So far so good and today I can dedicate time to inserting a battery and exploring the camera further.
 
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With this in mind I have just been playing with my mirrorless Canon EOS R ON-OFF switch and it's perfectly positioned for your lefthand thumb and its knurled dial offers excellent grip on the switch dial. So this means that when out in the field the time switching on the camera when spotting a target is absolutely minimal and can even be done while lifting the camera to the eye. Perhaps the ON-OFF switch on the 1DX-2 which I have been so critical of is actually designed to be awkward and left ON while shooting. I have often been out from dawn til dusk with 1DX-2 left ON and only switching it OFF while mounting/unmounting extenders - I only shoot RAW and can easily record 1,500 images before changing battery, but look at that huge battery size (and forget the cost of the spare!) < Having such battery longevity is a nice feeling though and they recharge extremely quickly in easily less than half the time of a LP-E6N.
I prefer to turn the camera on with my right hand thumb as I raise it to my eye. My left hand automatically goes to the lens.
 
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On my OMDmkII the camera goes to sleep after 1 minute but I can press ANY button and its back to life in a second ready to shoot -doesn't the R work the same Robin.
Rob.
 
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You can see the size comparison between the EOS R and the 7DII here.

And a size comparison between the EOS r and 6DII here.

The 7DII is slightly larger than the 6DII.
.... That's an extremely useful website for size comparisons - Cheers!

Obviously compared to the other two cameras the 7DII does have the benefit 10 fps continuous shooting with autofocus. ;) :rolleyes: Swings and roundabouts eh! :LOL:
.... And also the sometimes useful extra 'reach' of a crop-sensor. But, keeping the subject to Canon cameras and not Sony etc, the 7D-2 is totally trumped by the 14 fps continuous shooting with autofocus of the 1DX-2 ;) Horses for courses eh! :D

As I have said in my previous posts, IF I decide to keep the EOS R [Mesdames et Messieurs, place your bets!] my 7D-2 will be for sale and also my mirrorless EOS M5 with EF adapter.
 
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I prefer to turn the camera on with my right hand thumb as I raise it to my eye. My left hand automatically goes to the lens.
.... Hence proving how different each of us are in our preferences.

My muscle memory is totally used to the ON-OFF switch lefthand thumb position of the M5, 7D-2 and 5D-4 and it's the 1DX-2 switch position and its design I have problems with. I hasten to add that I absolutely love everything else about the 1DX-2 though.

It's strange how muscle memory takes over and initially I have difficulty thinking about exactly what I do - It becomes second nature, I just do it and it works for me.
 
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On my OMDmkII the camera goes to sleep after 1 minute but I can press ANY button and its back to life in a second ready to shoot -doesn't the R work the same Robin.
Rob.
.... I very quickly disabled the option on all my camera bodies to go to sleep after any amount of time after a camera went to sleep just at a critical moment while waiting for an animal to appear. And so I have never since selected the option to then check this out.

The option of being able to press ANY button to bring the camera back to life is an extremely valuable one when considering the battery thirsty nature of a mirrorless camera. When I have torn myself away from this online discussion, had breakfast and inserted a battery, I will be checking that out on the EOS R and if it's not an option then Canon have missed a trick! But is this a deal breaker for me which causes me to send it back? < Nah, I very much doubt it.

Pressing any button on my Canon 1DX-2 flagship doesn't wake it up but I am totally unfamiliar with the OMDmkII < Is it mirrorless?
 
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.... That's an extremely useful website for size comparisons - Cheers!

.... And also the sometimes useful extra 'reach' of a crop-sensor. But, keeping the subject to Canon cameras and not Sony etc, the 7D-2 is totally trumped by the 14 fps continuous shooting with autofocus of the 1DX-2 ;) Horses for courses eh! :D

As I have said in my previous posts, IF I decide to keep the EOS R [Mesdames et Messieurs, place your bets!] my 7D-2 will be for sale and also my mirrorless EOS M5 with EF adapter.
Never any doubt about that Rob, but it's been an interesting lesson in the psychology of GAS listening to your struggles :D

More power to you bud (y)
 
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Never any doubt about that Rob, but it's been an interesting lesson in the psychology of GAS listening to your struggles :D
.... :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: That made me literally laugh out loud!

In the cold light of day this morning (yes I was tempted to take the EOS R body to bed with me last night) and although I haven't inserted a battery yet and explored further, I reckon you are right of course and that even if I find the fps rate feels like wading through syrup while wearing rubber wellies I will still probably submit to lady R's other charms. At least having a mirrorless M5 mounted only on EF lenses has given me a valuable insight into mirrorless technology.

No such thing as a perfect camera! Rather like no such thing as a perfect woman, although some do come close :D

Breakfast followed by battery insertion, calls!!

*cough*
 
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Yes Mirrorless Robin I bought it while waiting for Canon to come up with something but the R is not for me I don't mind running 2 systems side by side just cost more, but like you I can't take it with me :)
Im sure the R will give great results and lets face it Most cameras will these days it's just that BIF need or should I say give a better chance if using high speed gear and the OMD is almost on par with my 1DX mk !! for speed but ISO is behind by quite a bit .

Hopefully Canon will bring the R range more in line for birding then I may well spend a bit more lol
Rob.
 
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As I physically familiarise myself by playing with just the EOS R body and I still haven't loaded a battery and fired it up, it has become very obvious to me that the Canon R's team of body designers are seriously good at their job.
What! :eek: You have had a camera for longer than it takes to charge a battery and you haven't turned it on! :confused: :thinking: You can only press buttons and flick switches and rotate dials for so long without seeing what they do in the camera. The mind boggles. :confused:
As I have said in my previous posts, IF I decide to keep the EOS R [Mesdames et Messieurs, place your bets!] my 7D-2 will be for sale and also my mirrorless EOS M5 with EF adapter.
After reading your initial impressions after it arrived, and the pretty much lack of negativity, ;) I have little doubt that you will be keeping it. :)
 
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What! :eek: You have had a camera for longer than it takes to charge a battery and you haven't turned it on! :confused: :thinking: You can only press buttons and flick switches and rotate dials for so long without seeing what they do in the camera. The mind boggles. :confused:
.... Agreed, but I want to be sure that the EOS R will suit my needs and after my experience of not liking the physical handling of my M5 inspite of it taking very good photos, I want to be absolutely sure. I bought the M5 blind without an option to return it. Exploring a new camera in a measured and logical way creates a much easier learning curve when shooting and also allows me to better understand what's going on. It's just the way I am.

If for example I had found a deal breaker causing me to send it back I would be able to state that the camera had not been used to shoot with at all and better claim a full refund. An inability to comfortably reach and use the AF-ON button or to crash fingers onto the Multi Function Bar, as wrongly reported by some online, would have been a deal breaker causing me to wait to see what the next R mirrorless body has to offer.

Besides, there are gale force winds and horizontal rain outside so far today!
 
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An inability to comfortably reach and use the AF-ON button or to crash fingers onto the Multi Function Bar, as wrongly reported by some online, would have been a deal breaker causing me to wait to see what the next R mirrorless body has to offer.

Besides, there are gale force winds and horizontal rain outside so far today!
Maybe not wrongly reported, but just didn't work for them. ;)

The wind is just starting to get strong gusts in Liverpool. No rain yet, but probably soon. :rolleyes:
 
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It's right down in the 'sunny south East' :) Beautiful county is Kilkenny.



I'm actually from Carlow, the tiny county shaped like a little Africa beside it :D And atm, living 3 counties above it
One of my favourite parts of Ireland but my lot are from Dublin.

I have a small house in Kinsale which my family use as and when. I shall retire there in 2020.

Now if the politicos could sort out the fiber broadband delivery to the rural areas.... all went ‘tits up ‘ yesterday.
 
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Maybe not wrongly reported, but just didn't work for them. ;)
.... You're right. I just found it difficult to accept because I'm a 6ft guy of average build and my long artistic fingers are a long distance short of contact with unintentional contact with the Multi Functional Bar - It works for me but not for some others.

Battery now inserted and card formatted.... Poor light testing later.
 
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A sharing of my findings update now that the battery has been inserted :

Even when switched OFF, the small top LCD displays which mode the camera has last used. Removing the battery removes that info until a battery is loaded again. So there's always going to be a slight battery drain unless you remove the battery which is a sensible thing to do on any camera not being used for several days.

The fact that your selected mode is so continually displayed is directly equivalent to being seen etched on a now old-school mode dial.

That small LCD top screen doesn't display the smaller size info very well but such info can all be seen in either the viewfinder or rear LCD screen anyway and so I'm not finding this a big deal. The mode indicator is nice and large.

@GyRob : When automatically going to sleep after a time option has been specified in the Menu settings, pressing any button will wake up the camera. I haven't got around to checking if the 1DX-2 also does this but I have never had any battery juice drinking issues to solve on it while left on all day and so it's academic.

An EVF even of this high spec never seems to have the clarity which an optical viewfinder has in a D-SLR but it's pretty good and much better than the M5 (which was ok).

So far I have the touchscreen set to Standard sensitivity but it is stellar both in legibility and response. I don't have my 5D-4 anymore but the R touchscreen feels slightly better unless that's a placebo effect. The screen's technology will certainly have been developed further by Canon because no technology ever stands still.

The AF in ONE-SHOT nails the target in extremely low light and deep shadows - Tested on the RF 24-105mm @24mm.... Alarmingly so! Canon's claims appear to be true and valid.

I have matched as many of the settings as I can to my 1DX-2 and have even changed a setting to match the R. It's taken me a couple of years and four camera bodies to learn which two I need to keep to best work together.

As a replacement for my mirrorless EOS M5 (with EF adapter) the EOS R is beyond any doubt more enabling and more comfortable to use. But to be fair, it's nearly four times the cost and the M5 is designed for compactness with a set of its own compact lenses - A different horse for a different course. No regrets from me though.

I now need to shoot some wildlife with it to test the rubber-wellies-in-syrup fps and other features in real-world use.
 
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Yes Mirrorless Robin I bought it while waiting for Canon to come up with something but the R is not for me I don't mind running 2 systems side by side just cost more, but like you I can't take it with me :)
Im sure the R will give great results and lets face it Most cameras will these days it's just that BIF need or should I say give a better chance if using high speed gear and the OMD is almost on par with my 1DX mk !! for speed but ISO is behind by quite a bit .

Hopefully Canon will bring the R range more in line for birding then I may well spend a bit more lol
Rob.
.... Understood. Horses-for-Courses again!

Even though it can only be speculation I have absolutely no doubt that Canon will extend the R range to include bodies with higher specs suitable for more hardcore wildlife and sports action. But when is what I'm personally not wanting to wait for and if such a future R body doesn't have a fully articulated screen I doubt I'll want one because I like shooting minibeasts and sometimes very low level views. In the unlikely event that I decided to only have one body in my system, then the current R with its slooow fps would not be the one.

In the grand scheme of things, Canon cannot afford not to bring out higher-end R bodies and have already said that they plan to. What and when is the big question.
 
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Had a chance to have a play with a few new bits of kit at the WEX Open day today - Canon R, Nikon Z7 and the new Fuji 50R.

Actually thought the Canon felt quite good to hold - nice in the hand with the 24-105 attached - never had a Canon and not sure I ever will but their new system seems well thought out.
Nikon Z7 seems very similar, I even remarked to the rep that they feel like they could have come from the same factory!!
 
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I picked one of these up in Bath today; my thumb wanted the BBF button I use... - I can see why it would appeal. Not for me though. I had hoped to look at two primes and the recent 24-105 mk 2 and they hadn't brought any of them. Mirrorless wise, I am very happy with my Oly set up. I might even try it on basketball again soon.
 
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Had a chance to have a play with a few new bits of kit at the WEX Open day today - Canon R, Nikon Z7 and the new Fuji 50R.

Actually thought the Canon felt quite good to hold - nice in the hand with the 24-105 attached - never had a Canon and not sure I ever will but their new system seems well thought out.
Nikon Z7 seems very similar, I even remarked to the rep that they feel like they could have come from the same factory!!
.... The Canon EOS R + RF 24-105mm F/4L IS + EF Adapter is what I bought a couple of days ago from Wex and as you say, it does feel good to hold. I tried it today on my EF 500mm F/4L II + 2x III on a gimbal head and that deep grip really facilitates moving the combo around.

I didn't know Wex had a shop in Bath. Is it what was Calumet? If so, I hope Wex have got around to retraining the ex Calumet staff! The ex Calumet staff in London don't hold a candle to the Wex staff in Norwich.
 
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Not WEX - LCE - they had one of those photo days with a few talks and around 10 - 12 stands including Fuji, Sigma, Olympus, Canon etc etc. I was a bit disappointed with the sports talk but I think he did what it said in the blurb; I was just expecting more images and only saw around 5! Ah well.
 
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I just traded in all my m4/3 gear in against one and a 24-70 L today at LCE in Newcastle. Got the last of their initial stock. My lens won’t arrive until Tuesday, so I have a very expensive paperweight until then LOL.

Simon.
 
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I just traded in all my m4/3 gear in against one and a 24-70 L today at LCE in Newcastle. Got the last of their initial stock. My lens won’t arrive until Tuesday, so I have a very expensive paperweight until then LOL.

Simon.
I go to that branch a great deal; they are really good there. Very helpful indeed.
 
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Not sure if it's been posted but new Adobe DNG converter (3 days ago) supports .Cr3 files LINK
.... I don't have Lightroom, I use CaptureOne (by PhaseOne) and until they release a CR3 RAW converter I'll upload to Canon DPP and export as TIFF into my usual workflow.
 
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That's fine but the post wasn't particularly aimed at you, there are other EOS R (and M50) owners that maybe do use Adobe products ;)
.... Of course it wasn't particularly aimed at me - There are other EOS R (and M50) owners that maybe use PhaseOne products such as CaptureOne. Capisce?
 
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I just traded in all my m4/3 gear in against one and a 24-70 L today at LCE in Newcastle. Got the last of their initial stock. My lens won’t arrive until Tuesday, so I have a very expensive paperweight until then LOL.

Simon.
Golly, that's a shock Simon. You've been with MFT a long time.

I have the Sony A7 now but I still have and use my MFT gear when I want smaller, faster and quieter or indeed silent kit as my A7 is a bit sluggish compared to the blisteringly quick MFT kit and it doesn't have an electronic shutter.
 
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Golly, that's a shock Simon. You've been with MFT a long time.

I have the Sony A7 now but I still have and use my MFT gear when I want smaller, faster and quieter or indeed silent kit as my A7 is a bit sluggish compared to the blisteringly quick MFT kit and it doesn't have an electronic shutter.
Nine years with MFT Alan, but truth be told I’ve been looking at other options for 12 or 15 months now. At the risk of getting flamed, Sony was never a realistic option for me. Brilliant cameras with top notch IQ and features, but after trying the latest bodies, I just can’t gel with them. No point have an amazing bit of kit if you really don’t like using it. The R feels just like the G9 in the hand, which is a very good thing, and much the same weight (body only).

Simon.
 
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Nine years with MFT Alan, but truth be told I’ve been looking at other options for 12 or 15 months now. At the risk of getting flamed, Sony was never a realistic option for me. Brilliant cameras with top notch IQ and features, but after trying the latest bodies, I just can’t gel with them. No point have an amazing bit of kit if you really don’t like using it. The R feels just like the G9 in the hand, which is a very good thing, and much the same weight (body only).

Simon.
I will be very interested in your opinion of the r when you've had a chance to play. I feel the same about the Sonys, but also loved my oly m4/3 kit. I just wanted full frame for my travels.
it looks like it just might tick a lot of the boxes for me. look forward to hearing what you think
 
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