Capture One Pro vs Lightroom vs DxO....[Capture One wins!]

RedRobin

RedRobin

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Robin
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As Apple has stopped developing Aperture I am considering which RAW editor to move to. By dumping Aperture in favour of Photos as an upgrade to iPhoto, Apple have pandered to the lowest common denominator of iOS device phone camera users and turned away serious photographers be they amateur or professional :(. On the other hand Apple may have done me a huge favour in forcing me to up my game.

Reports are that Capture One Pro 8 has sharper/better RAW capture than Lightroom and it certainly looks as if it has superior cataloguing options (important in practice). Also it can be bought or subscribed and I personally prefer to buy outright.

Does anyone have any experience of both software editors, please?
EDIT: and also DxO Optics Pro 10, please.

Capture One : http://www.phaseone.com/en/Imaging-Software/Capture-One.aspx

Thanks :)
 
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Hi Robin there is a trial month you can try.i did try it and it seems really good but im a simple pp person and more than id need. Lifhtroom i tried and its good too, hard when been using aperture like us to have to move to a new one.be interested in what you think ,what about PSE?
 
SsSsSsSsSnake said:
Hi Robin there is a trial month you can try.i did try it and it seems really good but im a simple pp person and more than id need. Lifhtroom i tried and its good too, hard when been using aperture like us to have to move to a new one.be interested in what you think ,what about PSE?
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....Hi Chris, I have registered on Capture One's forum and want some answers to questions before I bother to download a trial.

I already use Photoshop CS6 as an external editor accessed from Aperture and so have no need to install 'PSE' (Photoshop Elements?) and have never used it so can't offer an opinion.
 
I used Capture One Pro, but have now moved to the express version. Couldn't justify the extra money for the features I wouldn't use. I use PSE 10, but am lookin o upgrade to 13. I find that CO and PSE work seemlessly together and I find I have drastically reduced my edting workflow by using CO. If you have any specific questions, let me know and I will try to answer them.
 
Tim can i butt in and ask is it possible to use PSE alone for general editing without having to add anything else?
 
Deadhead said:
You can also buy Lightroom
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....Thanks, John - I already know you can buy Lightroom but Capture One Pro 8 (CO) might actually be a preferable RAW editor as well as being able to migrate thousands of RAW images from Aperture to CO very easily. CO cataloging seems more suited to my needs too.
 
I use both Lightroom 5.7 and Capture One Pro 8.2. I am an original Lightroom user (early adopter) and consider myself very proficient with it and I have been using Capture One for about 2 years on and off. I am slowly transitioning to CO, as i find the raw converter fabulous, but much prefer the database management setup of Lightroom. My current workaround is process in CO and then view and manage in LR. Seems to be working. CO has a new feature just released called dynamic locations, essentially "the location of processed images, or the location of imported images, can be dynamically modified, simply by using a new set of Tokens. For example, files can be sorted automatically based on a star rating, color tag, variant position and many other useful criteria, so you can organize yourself better and faster." in their words.
 
twhite87 said:
I used Capture One Pro, but have now moved to the express version. Couldn't justify the extra money for the features I wouldn't use. I use PSE 10, but am lookin o upgrade to 13. I find that CO and PSE work seemlessly together and I find I have drastically reduced my edting workflow by using CO. If you have any specific questions, let me know and I will try to answer them.
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....Many Thanks, Tim - That's very helpful of you :)

My first question is when you connect a camera whether you can then select individual images (or selected multiple images) from a preview to upload into various different folders/albums/projects rather than having to upload every image from the camera as only one upload and then select to transfer mulitiples within CO (Capture One). < I hope that makes sense.

I didn't know there was an Express version.

EDIT:
I see that an Express version is no longer offered.
 
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Gambit said:
I use both Lightroom 5.7 and Capture One Pro 8.2. I am an original Lightroom user (early adopter) and consider myself very proficient with it and I have been using Capture One for about 2 years on and off. I am slowly transitioning to CO, as i find the raw converter fabulous, but much prefer the database management setup of Lightroom. My current workaround is process in CO and then view and manage in LR. Seems to be working. CO has a new feature just released called dynamic locations, essentially "the location of processed images, or the location of imported images, can be dynamically modified, simply by using a new set of Tokens. For example, files can be sorted automatically based on a star rating, color tag, variant position and many other useful criteria, so you can organize yourself better and faster." in their words.
Click to expand...

....Hence confirming what I have heard about how good the CO RAW converter is.

When you say "manage the database" do you mean where the original RAW images are kept or user created catalogues/albums etc?

I have an internal SSD (Solid State Hard Drive) on my Mac where ONLY my Apps are installed and would want to keep it that way so that ALL imported images are kept on the second internal Hard Drive.
 
Gambit said:
CO has a new feature just released called dynamic locations, essentially "the location of processed images, or the location of imported images, can be dynamically modified, simply by using a new set of Tokens. For example, files can be sorted automatically based on a star rating, color tag, variant position and many other useful criteria, so you can organize yourself better and faster." in their words.
Click to expand...

....Apparently Tokens don't work in Mac OS 10.10.3 but I expect that will be resolved in due course.
 
I mean user created folders from CO that contain my finalised/exported jpegs. I just open the folder in LR.
Essentially my database management of images works like this (i'm sure everyone approaches it differently)

For LR: I have an external hdd what contains my LR catalogs and LR images under a folder specific to the catalog name i.e.. 2015 folder > 2015 LR catalog, all raws and the LR catalog reside in there, any jpeg exports from the catalog reside in folders within the overall folder, if that makes sense. Smart albums and collections within LR are a whole other story.

For CO: my CO catalog/db has its own folder on the same external hdd and the db name also corresponds with the catalog name. ie. All raws managed and processed within CO reside in this same folder, i also export jpegs into folders that reside within this CO folder.

I then just open LR, and import the jpeg exports from CO into LR, keeping its location in tact.

Eventually i will stop doing this when CO has a built in export to smugmug or flickr. CO does have a web contact sheet function but its a bit clunky and not as streamlined as LR is.
 
Thanks, @Gambit that's an entirely different working structure than I would have as I will not be buying both CO8 and LR. I'm trying to decide which one of the two.

I am still after an answer to the question about where CO8 installs uploaded images from the camera - i.e. whether it can be different than where the CO App itself is installed.
 
You can select anywhere you wish to save your file from CO when downloading from camera, can be an entirely different location.
Put it this way I will switch entirely to CO once web integration is there.
If I were you I'd commit to CO and don't look back, you will be blown away.
 
RedRobin said:
....Many Thanks, Tim - That's very helpful of you :)

My first question is when you connect a camera whether you can then select individual images (or selected multiple images) from a preview to upload into various different folders/albums/projects rather than having to upload every image from the camera as only one upload and then select to transfer mulitiples within CO (Capture One). < I hope that makes sense.

I didn't know there was an Express version.

EDIT:
I see that an Express version is no longer offered.
Click to expand...

When you connect a camera/card, it will bring up a preview screen that you can select which photo(s) to upload and to which folder(s) on your hard drive, however the preview of each is rather small. What I tend to do, is upload a whole batch to a dummy folder on my HD called 'new images'. I can then select and batch export files to desired folders. You can even do basic editing before you batch export.
 
Gambit said:
You can select anywhere you wish to save your file from CO when downloading from camera, can be an entirely different location.
Put it this way I will switch entirely to CO once web integration is there.
If I were you I'd commit to CO and don't look back, you will be blown away.
Click to expand...

....I have been watching the CO8 video tutorials and it certainly is looking that way and especially for me who feels much more comfortable with a user-friendly and intuitive interface. Ironically, I spent several years pre-release testing CS1-4 for Adobe and they offered me a free license for Lightroom but I was only Art Directing professional photographers at the time and said no thankyou (and they gave me something else). It's only since retiring that I have started using a DSLR myself, hence my need for editing software as Aperture is dying.

I don't need the web integration and am very encouraged by your recommendation as you have experience in both CO8 and Lightroom.

Thanks :)
 
Where abuts in the South west are you? If you're anywhere near Cardiff I'd be happy to meet and show you the software.
 
twhite87 said:
Where abuts in the South west are you? If you're anywhere near Cardiff I'd be happy to meet and show you the software.
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....I'm on the West Dorset coast so too far. My daughter went to Cardiff before moving to Nottingham Uni and so I regularly used to visit Cardiff. That's really kind of you to offer but I seem to be getting my questions answered and I shall probably buy (or even subscribe!) CO8 in the next few weeks (or even sooner!).

Judging by the 'introduction' tutorials CO8 has quite a few similarities with Aperture and also RAW editing is RAW editing if you see what I mean and I'm not a complete newbie - Just an advanced dummy! :D
 
Is there a reason you've not looked at DX Optics Pro? I've only had a fairly brief play with CO, but didn't feel it did such a good job with RAW as DXO.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Is there a reason you've not looked at DX Optics Pro? I've only had a fairly brief play with CO, but didn't feel it did such a good job with RAW as DXO.
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....Only that I have never heard of it before reading your post. I'll check it out - Thanks :)
 
ancient_mariner said:
Version 8 is available as a free download, but is apparently much slower than the present version 10.
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....Am currently watching this long video on version 10. Obviously very powerful and probably more so than I need as a wildlife photographer who doesn't want to get over creative with wildlife images. I haven't checked what it costs yet.
 
I'd not have said DXO was creative compared to Lightroom - rather the opposite, it's a straight development & optimisation tool, rather than one with manipulation abilities. But that's based on version 8.
 
I have to say that I am very impressed after watching this webinar :


Especially with Smart Lighting etc, Clearview, and automatic noise reduction and the reading of which camera and lens an image has been captured on.
 
If I were to choose it would be CO. I have had most incarnations of it, and have been lucky enough to also have used LR since v2.

DXO can be used as a plug in to CS6 and they all have their strengths but CO normally wins out with me.
 
So far it seems to me that it's a choice between Capture One Pro 8 and DxO Optics Pro 10 and that Lightroom doesn't merit consideration any longer.
 
They all seem to have their strengths. I like lightroom for the power of the brush, masking & dust removal and the really powerful tone and colour controls. Plus the cataloging side of things. The weaknesses of LR for me are in sharpening, contrast control and the natural inclination to over-cook everything and end up with a gaudy picture. DXO does subtle really well, so I'll do initial development in that, sometimes also using Filmpack for a less digital look, then move over to LR for tone/colour work and dust removal to give the image more pop. Sometimes I'll finish off with Perfect Photo Suite that allows me to work in layers with much finer control on specific parts of an image, and also does my favourite mono conversions.
 
ancient_mariner said:
They all seem to have their strengths. I like lightroom for the power of the brush, masking & dust removal and the really powerful tone and colour controls. Plus the cataloging side of things. The weaknesses of LR for me are in sharpening, contrast control and the natural inclination to over-cook everything and end up with a gaudy picture. DXO does subtle really well, so I'll do initial development in that, sometimes also using Filmpack for a less digital look, then move over to LR for tone/colour work and dust removal to give the image more pop. Sometimes I'll finish off with Perfect Photo Suite that allows me to work in layers with much finer control on specific parts of an image, and also does my favourite mono conversions.
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....That's interesting, Toni. I have literally just upgraded my Perfect Photo Suite (PPS) 9 to 9.5 and test processed an image after first editing in Aperture. I only use PPS Effects and/or Enhance (via Photoshop CS6) and not PPS Layers or any brushes etc. I guess that my aim is to always minimise post-processing as I prefer wildlife images to be faithful. Having just said that I have really just zapped up the colour richness (PPS Enhance > Autotone) of a Grasshopper nympth in PPS Enhance - Man, is it now bright green! Pushing the boundaries of reality a tad but certainly has an impact which will appeal to an average viewer's perceptions.

I use PPS as a Photoshop plug-in before returning to CS6 to Smart Sharpen as a final process and therefore don't use PPS to its fullest potential but rather to achieve the final image I want.

I'm looking at either Capture One Pro 8 or DxO Optics Pro 10 as my starting editor to substitute Apple's dying Aperture. I suspect that both may be superior to Aperture anyway because of their RAW Converters.

By dumping Aperture in favour of Photos as an upgrade to iPhoto, Apple have pandered to the lowest common denominator of iOS device phone camera users and turned away serious photographers be they amateur or professional :(. On the other hand Apple may have done me a huge favour in forcing me to up my game.
 
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I'm still on PPS 8.5, and don't use anything like the full potential. I could probably use 9.5 instead of both DXO and LR (it has cataloging/album features now too) but like the strengths they both bring to the party. Some images barely need touching, while others require a lot of work to make them look like reality.
 
ancient_mariner said:
I'm still on PPS 8.5, and don't use anything like the full potential. I could probably use 9.5 instead of both DXO and LR (it has cataloging/album features now too) but like the strengths they both bring to the party. Some images barely need touching, while others require a lot of work to make them look like reality.
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....PPS 9.5 has faster and better optimised for your individual computer, catalogue viewing but I prefer my cataloguing to be done as a very first step when a camera is first connected and I don't see PPS as the best first stage editor and don't even know if it is capable of converting the original RAW files. And if so, the RAW converters in DxO and CO8 are most likely better.

The PPS interface isn't my favourite either and sliders sometimes spring back to values they are changed from (a bug in PPS 9 which might not be in 9.5 - I haven't checked yet). CO8 looks to have the best interface experience and user interface is more important than many people realise. But I like what PPS offers as some preset Effects just to further fine-tune some images.

I am surprised that you think that PPS could be a substitute for either DxO or Lightroom but I have never used Lightroom (nor DxO).
 
Very interested in this thread, new iMac coming next week and I want to make a "fresh start".
 
RedRobin said:
....PPS 9.5 has faster and better optimised for your individual computer, catalogue viewing but I prefer my cataloguing to be done as a very first step when a camera is first connected and I don't see PPS as the best first stage editor and don't even know if it is capable of converting the original RAW files. And if so, the RAW converters in DxO and CO8 are most likely better.

The PPS interface isn't my favourite either and sliders sometimes spring back to values they are changed from (a bug in PPS 9 which might not be in 9.5 - I haven't checked yet). CO8 looks to have the best interface experience and user interface is more important than many people realise. But I like what PPS offers as some preset Effects just to further fine-tune some images.

I am surprised that you think that PPS could be a substitute for either DxO or Lightroom but I have never used Lightroom (nor DxO).
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From what I see in the latest publicity emails, they very much want PPS to be the all inclusive package, hence the quick-review and album features. It has no trouble converting Sony ARW files, and can also handle and output work as PSD (photoshop layered) files. There's bugs in 8.5 too, like sometimes failing to display areas of an image that are out of range, and a few other minor things. I wouldn't *want* to use it as my sole editor, but I certainly could do so if I were only allowed one package and might choose 9.5 over LR5.7 because it's much more capable. The biggest problem with PPS is similar to that with LR - the application seems to encourage production of over-sharpened, over-processed images.

I should probably give CO Express another go, although I'm not sure I need 3 different ways of processing raw files - 2 is bad enough!

FWIW if DigiKam had been able to handle the RAW output from my Sony a58 in Nov 2013 when I first bought it, then I'd never have bought LR, and would have probably stayed with that program for development, using GIMP for any heavy lifting and doing everything in Linux.

Oh, and as for cataloging, I always import images through windows into dated folders first, then import into LR, applying basic keywords first, then more specific ones later if needed. I check images in LR to see which I want to keep and which to bin, and only after I've selected the ones I want to process will I move to DXOP. Output from DXOP is as a DNG file, which I re-import into LR, so I have the base and processed images together so I can always go back. DXOP edited images are colour-marked (red) to differentiate them from the original raw files, and I'll normally do final tonal range and colour adjustment in LR because those tools seem to work better for me.
 
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I have DxO Optics Pro 8 on my Macbook Pro Retina and have found it a huge memory hog, when in use, my memory clean gauge goes into the red.:eek:

I am also trialling Affinity Photo Beta, which I quite like.
 
killwilly said:
I have DxO Optics Pro 8 on my Macbook Pro Retina and have found it a huge memory hog, when in use, my memory clean gauge goes into the red.:eek:

I am also trialling Affinity Photo Beta, which I quite like.
Click to expand...

Compared to the other packages we're discussing here, DXOP8 brings my computer (i7, 16Gb RAM etc) to its knees. Apparently version 10 is faster unless you're using their special noise reduction.
 
ancient_mariner said:
From what I see in the latest publicity emails, they very much want PPS to be the all inclusive package, hence the quick-review and album features. It has no trouble converting Sony ARW files, and can also handle and output work as PSD (photoshop layered) files. There's bugs in 8.5 too, like sometimes failing to display areas of an image that are out of range, and a few other minor things. I wouldn't *want* to use it as my sole editor, but I certainly could do so if I were only allowed one package and might choose 9.5 over LR5.7 because it's much more capable. The biggest problem with PPS is similar to that with LR - the application seems to encourage production of over-sharpened, over-processed images.

I should probably give CO Express another go, although I'm not sure I need 3 different ways of processing raw files - 2 is bad enough!
Click to expand...

CO Express is no longer available, I'm afraid. Unless of course you already have it installed.

I think it's very easy to fall into the trap of over-processing and over-sharpening whatever software one uses.

The fundamental consideration for any editor surely has to be how good its RAW Converter results are? PPS seems to be a bit of an unknown in that respect when compared with CO8.

EDIT:
I have now confirmed that Perfect Photo Suite is not a RAW processor : http://photofocus.com/2015/01/07/qa-onones-perfect-photo-suite-9/
 
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killwilly said:
I have DxO Optics Pro 8 on my Macbook Pro Retina and have found it a huge memory hog, when in use, my memory clean gauge goes into the red.:eek:
Click to expand...


ancient_mariner said:
Compared to the other packages we're discussing here, DXOP8 brings my computer (i7, 16Gb RAM etc) to its knees. Apparently version 10 is faster unless you're using their special noise reduction.
Click to expand...

....Aperture and Photoshop are also memory hogs - I think it's just the nature of image editing software with such an intensity of processing being needed.

The video demonstration I watched of DxO's automatic noise reduction is impressive and I'm not surprised it hogs memory. I only have 8 Gb of memory on my iMac and it's neither easy nor cheap to upgrade that.
 
killwilly said:
I am also trialling Affinity Photo Beta, which I quite like.
Click to expand...


....Affinity Photo looks as if it's more of an image editor like Photoshop but more user-friendly and not very focussed on first stage RAW conversion and post-processing - Am I right?
 
Zimmer said:
Very interested in this thread, new iMac coming next week and I want to make a "fresh start".
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....If you shoot RAW I doubt very much if Apple's Photos will suit your needs. It will be pre-installed though as part of your new iMac's OS.
 
RedRobin said:
....If you shoot RAW I doubt very much if Apple's Photos will suit your needs. It will be pre-installed though as part of your new iMac's OS.
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Have had a mac for years m8, and yes, this new photos is no use.
I'm only starting shooting raw, so know nothing about raw conversion software.
I have installed Lightroom and pixelmator and dabbled with a few "ahem" versions of various softwares before I get my new machine.
Trouble is there's quite a bit of learning to do with all these new softwares, so I would like to "pick" one, buy it learn a bit and and stick with it.
The general "consensus" suggests that Lightroom is a "must" and then .......
I also bought Photoshop Elements from Amazon yesterday, just because I saw a "bargain alert"
 
Zimmer said:
Have had a mac for years m8, and yes, this new photos is no use.
I'm only starting shooting raw, so know nothing about raw conversion software.
I have installed Lightroom and pixelmator and dabbled with a few "ahem" versions of various softwares before I get my new machine.
Trouble is there's quite a bit of learning to do with all these new softwares, so I would like to "pick" one, buy it learn a bit and and stick with it.

The general "consensus" suggests that Lightroom is a "must" and then .......

I also bought Photoshop Elements from Amazon yesterday, just because I saw a "bargain alert"
Click to expand...

....Lightroom is very well established and used by many photographers but the newer Apps such as Capture One Pro 8 and DxO Optics Pro 10 are showing to be superior in some important ways - As discussed in this thread by photographers who have used them all. Lightroom being a "must" is fast becoming out of date. But as ancient_mariner posted earlier, they each have their strengths.

I am currently tending to favour Capture One as my RAW converter and first stage editor. I already have Photoshop CS6 and Perfect Photo Suite 9.5 to add to the workflow as appropriate to the individual image.

Regarding Amazon 'bargains' you need to be aware of which version of Photoshop Elements satisfies compatibility with other Apps you want to use. Also, does Elements do RAW conversion? Even Photoshop's RAW converter isn't as good as others and neither is Lightroom's (both Adobe) according to a directly comparative demo I have seen.
 
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