Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

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Over 100 miles in one hit will need a "real" car. Although I could afford one, I'm not going to but a Tesla S or Roadster while our current "real" cars are still serviceable.
 
srichards said:
Wouldn't believe a word Bosch said.

https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/05/26/bosch-tied-to-emissions-cheating-claim-against-gm.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...probe-widens-as-u-s-said-to-investigate-bosch

http://www.dw.com/en/bosch-helped-vw-cheat-on-emissions-tests-report/a-19531048


http://europe.autonews.com/article/...enabled-vw-fiat-emissions-cheating-study-says


It's too late for diesel. The sooner it's dumped from private car ownership the better.
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2016 and 2017 articles and as far as I am aware Bosch haven't been found guilty of anything.
With Nox levels being reduced by 90% with either system I would say diesel having a very good chance of being around for a while yet.
 
nilagin said:
2016 and 2017 articles and as far as I am aware Bosch haven't been found guilty of anything.
With Nox levels being reduced by 90% with either system I would say diesel having a very good chance of being around for a while yet.
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I don't think Bosch should get any blame for the scandal. Even though they made the capability, it was stinking VW who chose to con people.
 
Nod said:
Took a '14 Leaf out for a test drive this morning. Mrs Nod is picking it up on Saturday. Much nippier than the s***box A Class. Will be sorting a fast charger ASAP but will be able to charge it from a 13A socket in the mean time, especially since it will be used mainly for short journeys.
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Nice one.

This is the thing with low capacity first gen EV's (eg. Leaf, Zoe, Soul EV), they drive much better than similarly priced ICE cars under 40-50mph: instant access to all the power, no gears. As long as you don't need to rely on the currently lacking infrastructure you'd find EV ownership very easy and stress free. Ideal for 2 car families.

Note, the fast charging posts do require you to take your own cable. My car didn't come with one, still worth cheekily ask for one when picking up the car. Rapid chargers have their own cables. The 13amp "granny" charger is considered last resort, it should come with the car as standard.

The remaining miles guess-o-meter can not be trusted, it changes based on previous driving style like an ICE car. Better to use the percentage left and consider 1 mile for every ~1.5%. Also, remember to close the inner charge flap before closing the exterior cover, it's an easy mistake to make.

Try Eco mode and put gear into B. This makes the accelerator pedal less aggressive, but also increases regen braking. Most of the time in traffic you'll be able to drive with only one pedal. Less effort, combined with the lack of vibration/noise and knowledge that moving slowly doesn't wear out clutch, doesn't waste fuel, makes traffic less stressful.
 
wuyanxu said:
Try Eco mode and put gear into B. This makes the accelerator pedal less aggressive, but also increases regen braking. Most of the time in traffic you'll be able to drive with only one pedal. Less effort, combined with the lack of vibration/noise and knowledge that moving slowly doesn't wear out clutch, doesn't waste fuel, makes traffic less stressful.
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I'd taken your earlier tips on board WRT driving it as pretty much a 1 pedal car, although I did find that it rolls forward if on a downhill slope even in B. Eco mode is quicker than the A Class (1500 petrol auto. Don't; just don't! It was nearly as thirsty as Mrs Nod's 4 litre V8 and sluggier than a sluggish slug.) but non Eco can embarrass a lot of things. Went for a quick spin along a dual carriageway and it had no problems keeping up with traffic in the overtaking lane. Looking forward to picking it up on Saturday.
Yup, granny cable comes with the car and will do until we get a charge point installed here at home - we'll get a socket rather than tethered cable so we'll get a 10m cable at the same time. It'll be 99% a town/shopping car with very occasional 30-40 mile round trips. The test route we did was a little over 5 miles and took 2 miles off the expected range - driving Mrs Nod's "real" car as economically as possible has trained my right foot to be remarkably light!

Anyone got any recommendations for charger installation companies? ChargedEV look favourite at the moment but happy to be advised as to other options.
 
Ours is from a non official dealer so we won't be eligible for a free install. Never mind, that'll be less than a month's fuel bill when she was using the XK as a daily driver!!!

TBH, the B mode feels very much like the real cars we have (all autos) so we're used to a gentle creep if we're not on the brakes. Also used to no clutch so we shouldn't come to any sudden stops... (We both learned VERY quickly just how good the brakes are in my car when the "clutch" pedal is pressed hard! Once was all it took.)
 
I'd love to get an electric or PHEV because of my very short journeys but alas I have no driveway. Settled on a n/a petrol in the end as I'm also really starting to hate the sound of diesel engines, even 6 cylinder ones.
 
nilagin said:
Ford has filed a patent for a hybrid passenger car with a difference, it contains a deployable electric motorbike.
https://www.morebikes.co.uk/46484/r...r-with-built-in-deployable-motorcycle-mental/
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interesting concept that, possible for drive your hydrid to a slightly out of town car park and charging station, deploy the bike and park outside your office, yeah I like it.
but for me the bike needs to be small and light and the pic shows it being very large although that just might be for effect.
 
wuyanxu said:
Just get an electric scooter to keep in any car's boot:
https://electrek.co/2018/05/01/xiaomi-m365-electric-scooter-review/

Only £350 on Gearbest, park somewhere, public transport into town and scooter all the way into your office.

I'm seriously tempted to get one, so I can park at a free EV charging spot about 1 mile from work and cut my 60 miles commute cost from £2 down to £0.
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God I hate those things. Not legal on the pavement, not legal on the road, not that it really matters as police don't really exist any more so they get used anyway and are a massive pain in the arse.
 
wuyanxu said:
Just get an electric scooter to keep in any car's boot:
https://electrek.co/2018/05/01/xiaomi-m365-electric-scooter-review/

Only £350 on Gearbest, park somewhere, public transport into town and scooter all the way into your office.

I'm seriously tempted to get one, so I can park at a free EV charging spot about 1 mile from work and cut my 60 miles commute cost from £2 down to £0.
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The only problem with that is that you effectively block the charging point for any other EV users for the day. Well, other than the fact that those scooters aren't legal to use in the UK except on private land! Several of the charge points in car parks here get blocked all day by Teslas.
 
Nod said:
The only problem with that is that you effectively block the charging point for any other EV users for the day. Well, other than the fact that those scooters aren't legal to use in the UK except on private land! Several of the charge points in car parks here get blocked all day by Teslas.
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Welcome to the world of EV ownership. I've pretty much given up on public charging infrastructure. Slower ones are usually blocked, too few faster ones meaning may have to queue.

Having said that. There are 2 types of charging points. DC Rapid charging should never be blocked, think of those like petrol stations. I usually spend no more than 15min at one for a boost in charge if needed during the day. AC charge using the smaller port can also be called destination charging. You have arrived at your destination and you'll be back to drive away when you are ready. It is difficult to require people to move their as soon as car finishes charging after N hours.


Thanks both. I knew hoverboards are illegal, didn't know these ones (which are much safer with brakes and handlebar) are also illegal.
 
wuyanxu said:
Welcome to the world of EV ownership. I've pretty much given up on public charging infrastructure. Slower ones are usually blocked, too few faster ones meaning may have to queue.

Having said that. There are 2 types of charging points. DC Rapid charging should never be blocked, think of those like petrol stations. I usually spend no more than 15min at one for a boost in charge if needed during the day. AC charge using the smaller port can also be called destination charging. You have arrived at your destination and you'll be back to drive away when you are ready. It is difficult to require people to move their as soon as car finishes charging after N hours.


Thanks both. I knew hoverboards are illegal, didn't know these ones (which are much safer with brakes and handlebar) are also illegal.
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There are road legal versions. The issue is normally the lack of lights and brakes that only act on one wheel iirc. It would need licensing and insuring to be on the road, and obviously the issue there is you will never get insurance on something that is not roadworthy.

I regularly see a guy on one of these on my commute, seems to fly pretty well.
https://www.evoscooters.co.uk/1000w...ectric-scooter-12-tyres-black-c9316-1468.html
 
wuyanxu said:
Welcome to the world of EV ownership. I've pretty much given up on public charging infrastructure. Slower ones are usually blocked, too few faster ones meaning may have to queue.
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The ones at Sainsbury's have a reasonably fast turn around - there's a 3 hour limit in the car park. We deliberately got a 10m cable to reduce the risk of ICEing there - we can park a space or 2 away from the point and the lead will still reach. Waiting on a date from the home point installers - it seems that they're pretty busy at the moment! For our needs (3rd car with other vehicles available as needed) the 13A charger is adequate, it's just that the car park ones will give a free charge as part of the car park fee.

Loving the thing so far. Gets used for 60 mile round trips with no fear of going flat and keeps up well with all traffic we've so far encountered (no motorways yet - there's only one locally anyway and we rarely use it even in real cars!)

Am I right in thinking that the low speed and reversing sounds were removed from the UK Leafs because of the No Horns etc. between certain times laws? Forums suggest this but IMO they're handy for deaf (and plain dumb!) pedestrians.
 
Good to see you are enjoying your EV.

Nod said:
Am I right in thinking that the low speed and reversing sounds were removed from the UK Leafs because of the No Horns etc. between certain times laws? Forums suggest this but IMO they're handy for deaf (and plain dumb!) pedestrians.
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My '64 reg Leaf Tekna has forward low speed (below 18mph) noise-maker for pedestrians. Yours should also have it, there's a button to the lower right of steering wheel to turn this off. Only by turning it off I had noticed there was actually a noise. Because the sound could be mistaken as electric inverter whine.
 
According to stats there are around 200,000 electric vehicles on UK roads and around 12.4 million diesels.... the Govt really has something to do to get people out of those diesels as with 2nd hand prices falling people are inevitably going to hang onto them longer, it's going to have to put its money where its mouth is and introduce some attractive financial incentives in the shorter term

Simon
 
simonkit said:
According to stats there are around 200,000 electric vehicles on UK roads and around 12.4 million diesels.... the Govt really has something to do to get people out of those diesels as with 2nd hand prices falling people are inevitably going to hang onto them longer, it's going to have to put its money where its mouth is and introduce some attractive financial incentives in the shorter term

Simon
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it will just take time and the govt has set 2040 as the end date but I reckon by 2030 there will be very few diesels still about.
 
wuyanxu said:
Good to see you are enjoying your EV.


My '64 reg Leaf Tekna has forward low speed (below 18mph) noise-maker for pedestrians. Yours should also have it, there's a button to the lower right of steering wheel to turn this off. Only by turning it off I had noticed there was actually a noise. Because the sound could be mistaken as electric inverter whine.
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Very much enjoying it.

You're right, there is a sound but it's VERY quiet - only just audible at very low speeds with the window down, anything over 4-5 MPH and it's drowned out by tyre noise. Could do with a reversing beeper IMO, maybe (as suggested on one of the forums) a wireless doorbell!

Just needs a trailer with a mahoosive V8 powered generator to keep it charged. :D
 
Mr Bump said:
it will just take time and the govt has set 2040 as the end date but I reckon by 2030 there will be very few diesels still about.
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Sure sure. unless there's a massive shift in EV cost and range I find that very unlikely. But hey keep up the hype, it's made my new diesel last year a great buy, and when I trade in 3 years diesels will be even cheaper!
 
Donnie said:
Sure sure. unless there's a massive shift in EV cost and range I find that very unlikely. But hey keep up the hype, it's made my new diesel last year a great buy, and when I trade in 3 years diesels will be even cheaper!
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your missing the point @Donnie in 5 years time when you go to the dealer there will be very few diesels for sale you will have very few options.
Car makers will simply stop making them soon, there are much better profits to be had with hybrid and EV.

March forward 10 years and I doubt any major car makers will be promoting diesel
 
Mr Bump said:
your missing the point @Donnie in 5 years time when you go to the dealer there will be very few diesels for sale you will have very few options.
Car makers will simply stop making them soon, there are much better profits to be had with hybrid and EV.

March forward 10 years and I doubt any major car makers will be promoting diesel
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I think they said that 20 years ago, then 10 years later when the Govt decided diesels were good they were readily available (as they still are), so who knows what Govt (dis)incentives will bring in the next 10/15 years.
 
MatBin said:
I think they said that 20 years ago, then 10 years later when the Govt decided diesels were good they were readily available (as they still are), so who knows what Govt (dis)incentives will bring in the next 10/15 years.
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Nah all the scandals have killed it for good, I also think the govt is under real preasure from pollution and car makers are all over hybrid and EV now.
Also look at Land Rovers dying sales, they have laid of 1000 people.
 
Mr Bump said:
Nah all the scandals have killed it for good, I also think the govt is under real preasure from pollution and car makers are all over hybrid and EV now.
Also look at Land Rovers dying sales, they have laid of 1000 people.
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Tell that to all the high mileage business users.

Lr / jag also blamed brexit. Not just diesel sales.
 
Load of rubbish, Look at Land Rover? Why not look at woolworths or Bhs as thats got just as much of a link to diesel :rolleyes:

I have no doubt that failing some massive science fiction type leap forward in technology or a highly unlikely cost drop that there will still be plenty of diesel cars available, especially in the SUV / MPV market where I am.
 
It would be quite easy for the government to put incentives in place to shift towards getting diesels off the road. Agreed keeping older diesels on the road would still be the overall cheapest for users. However as new cars reduce in sales the manufacture of replacement parts will follow albeit probably with a 5 year lag.

I suspect the next 5 years will see quite a shift on both EVs and Diesels on the road. I've guess EV will increase at least 10 fold and Diesels reduce by at least half in that period.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Apparently every new Tesla loses the company $22,000 (pre-tax). http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/03/tesla_results_q1_fy2018/.
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Not really. That figure comes from dividing the total loss by the number of cars made, but it doesn't mean that if they made 50% more cars their losses would be 50% greater. In fact their automotive operations delivered a gross margin of around $540m, which is nearly $20,000 per vehicle. You would expect - and more importantly they expect - this number to increase as the sales volume grows.
 
jamesev said:
It would be quite easy for the government to put incentives in place to shift towards getting diesels off the road. Agreed keeping older diesels on the road would still be the overall cheapest for users. However as new cars reduce in sales the manufacture of replacement parts will follow albeit probably with a 5 year lag.

I suspect the next 5 years will see quite a shift on both EVs and Diesels on the road. I've guess EV will increase at least 10 fold and Diesels reduce by at least half in that period.
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Personally I don't think EV will fly ahead I think the next version of small hybrid vehicles is where the sweet spot is.
Something VW Golf size as a basis, I think there is an Auris around that already is there.
 
Mr Bump said:
Nah all the scandals have killed it for good, I also think the govt is under real preasure from pollution and car makers are all over hybrid and EV now.
Also look at Land Rovers dying sales, they have laid of 1000 people.
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Actually they haven't laid anyone off. They are contract workers who aren't having their contracts renewed.
Manufacturers sell cars in other countries apart from Europe where diesel may suit customers better. So manufacturers are still likely to have diesel variants in their car ranges. Sales of diesel cars have only dropped in recent years because of the VAG fiasco and a lot of scare mongering when people don't have a clue how clean Euro6 diesel engines are and they will be much, much better still when these new systems are implemented.
 
Mr Bump said:
Personally I don't think EV will fly ahead I think the next version of small hybrid vehicles is where the sweet spot is.
Something VW Golf size as a basis, I think there is an Auris around that already is there.
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Hybrids don't make any sense as town vehicles. Maybe as short commuters but not as pure town vehicles. Otherwise we'd have a hybrid rather than an EV. By the time a hybrid was charged enough to go on to battery power, we'd be within 1/2 a mile of our destination and likewise on the way home. In fact, on the way home, a hybrid is wanting the ICE on to help it up the hill. The Leaf is happy all the way in both directions. (FWIW, the hybrid we tried was an Auris.)
 
As far as the no new ICE vehicles to be sold by 2040, that isn't entirely true. Depending on which Automotive magazine you read, Autocar claim that a new hybrid vehicle must be capable of a distance of 40 miles on the electric motor alone, whilst Auto Express reckon it is 50 miles. Maximum capability is currently around 30 miles, so even a current Prius won't be allowed. But 22yrs is plenty of time to extend the range of hybrids, but the all important point is that petrol and diesel fuels will still have to be readily available.
 
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