Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

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nilagin said:
From what I have read, all Tesla's suffer from very poor build quality. Obviously every car manufacturer has issues somewhere along the line with their cars, but Tesla are continuously struggling with the basics. Perhaps all those free firmware updates will fix them. ;)
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Sure they will :)

Maybe just buy the upcoming Audi or jaguar electric if you are after one. They will sooner do a moon mileage than model 3 will be seen rolling out in one piece
 
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/09/04/vw-ceo-wants-managers-to-drive-electric/
"Volkswagen CEO Herbert Diess announced recently at a management event that company employees will be asked to switch to clean electric cars with the promise of bonuses and other incentives. While top managers have shown little enthusiasm, Diess is of the opinion that the company cannot ask customers to buy clean cars when employees are still driving diesel."
 
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ianp5a said:
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/09/04/vw-ceo-wants-managers-to-drive-electric/
Volkswagen CEO Herbert Diess announced recently at a management event that company employees will be asked to switch to clean electric cars with the promise of bonuses and other incentives. While top managers have shown little enthusiasm, Diess is of the opinion that the company cannot ask customers to buy clean cars when employees are still driving diesel.
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Simple thing to do would be only make electric cars available. Don't give them the choice.
 
nilagin said:
Simple thing to do would be only make electric cars available. Don't give them the choice.
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If this is via some company car scheme then incentivise them through some sort of eco-scheme whereby they get "vouchers", the lower the emissions of the car (yes ok this is VW) the more the value of the voucher to get optional extras. So for diesels being at the upper end of the emissions they can only get the very base model (we're talking steel wheels and cassette ICE) unless they are willing to salary sacrifice for these extras.
 
jamesev said:
If this is via some company car scheme then incentivise them through some sort of eco-scheme whereby they get "vouchers", the lower the emissions of the car (yes ok this is VW) the more the value of the voucher to get optional extras. So for diesels being at the upper end of the emissions they can only get the very base model (we're talking steel wheels and cassette ICE) unless they are willing to salary sacrifice for these extras.
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I have no idea how VW lease their cars to managers, but at Ford those eligible for company cars only get certain cars to choose from, depending on their level of management. Those at the top get a choice of anything, bar a £400k GT of course.
But as we are talking about a car manufacturer's own fleet of cars that are leased, it shouldn't be hard to impose a designated powertrain on it's managers if they are that serious about giving the right impression.
 
nilagin said:
I have no idea how VW lease their cars to managers, but at Ford those eligible for company cars only get certain cars to choose from, depending on their level of management. Those at the top get a choice of anything, bar a £400k GT of course.
But as we are talking about a car manufacturer's own fleet of cars that are leased, it shouldn't be hard to impose a designated powertrain on it's managers if they are that serious about giving the right impression.
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Have to get past the unions first
 
jamesev said:
Have to get past the unions first
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Staff unions are completely different to hourly paid unions, well they are at Ford anyway. I don't think car leasing even comes under union jurisdiction as it is a perk. Mind you, our plant convenor (hourly not staff) gets free use of a company electric Focus anyway.
 
So the boss of jaguar land rover has gone on telly blaming brexit for there slump in sales not that fact 90% of there vehicles are dirty diesel and people are getting a consience, what a lying hound.
 
Ironically used diesel sales have risen just over 3% and used petrol sales have dropped just over 3%. Sensible people taking advantage of lower prices perhaps and not pandering to all this tree hugging cobblers.
 
Mr Bump said:
So the boss of jaguar land rover has gone on telly blaming brexit for there slump in sales not that fact 90% of there vehicles are dirty diesel and people are getting a consience, what a lying hound.
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JLR have already reduced their workforce due to the drop in sales of diesel vehicles. This has nothing to do with diesel and is about rising costs for their petrol vehicles and it is looking very likely quite a few JLR workers are now going to be going on a 3 day week up until Christmas at the least. I don't think there are any car manufacturers in the UK that aren't concerned about Brexit and are already being affected by exchange rates all making manufacturing in the UK less cost effective.
Ford high management had a meeting on Friday. There has been no official announcement, but there are rumours of plant closures circulating.
Trump isn't helping matters, a vehicle that Ford were planning on selling in the US, has been dropped because of Trumps import duty and it would be too expensive to build it in the US. As a result we have lost testing and development work for the engines that would have powered it.
 
Do Ford count as a British manufacturer any more? When was the last Ford CAR manufactured in the UK?
 
Nod said:
Do Ford count as a British manufacturer any more? When was the last Ford CAR manufactured in the UK?
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Last car was built 2002, last van 2013.
Still builds petrol and diesel engines and joint venture with Getrag, building gearboxes. Lots of UK car manufacturers including AM, JLR and McLaren rely on some of Ford's testing facilities at Dunton.
 
Mr Bump said:
slumping sales of diesel-powered cars.
not brexit the lying hound
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Car sales from the majority of manufacturers have been hit, petrol and diesel. JLR also make petrol variants of their vehicles and SUV's is an expanding market, replacing conventional family cars.
When the Brexit vote took place, Ford took a lot of financial measures in Europe to protect them from unfavourable exchange rates. That lasted a year, since then Ford Europe has started making a loss again, other manufacturers, not just car manufacturers are seeing similar effects. They are looking for ways to make cuts as a result. Several weeks ago there was meetings within Ford Europe to decide (not for the 1st time) on whether to remain within Europe or pull out completely.
Ford foresaw the 2009 crash and acted early meaning they didn't need to take a bailout like other car manufacturers did, if there are no amicable Brexit trade agreements, they have predicted another crash. Toyota, Nissan and Honda are also concerned and it has little to do with diesel sales.
 
The new 5th Generation Honda CRV for Europe will be built in Japan rather than Swindon. Probably due to the new trade deal between Japan and the EU among other reasons.

I don't think that's going to be very good for the UK plant, although for buyers it will probably mean even better reliability.
 
There are about 3 million Euro 4 Diesels on the roads in Germany currently. And another 5.5 million Euro 5 cars. There is great pressure to scrap, replace or modify them somehow. Modification is expensive and could lose performance. And is only possible on about half the Euro 5 cars. The fact that it is being considered shows how serious the current crisis is.
 
nilagin said:
WLTP emissions became enforced as of 1st September, many cars have been conforming for at least a year.
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So your message is to buy brand new cars. That 2 years old Euro6 car is too polluting.

Whereas my 4 year old EV is much less polluting than 4 years ago thanks to improvements in our electricity generation. I am pretty sure this kind of same car but ever reducing emissions would only happen with EV.
 
nilagin said:
WLTP emissions became enforced as of 1st September, many cars have been conforming for at least a year.
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consumers don't want big heavy diesel powered trucks which is pretty much all JLR are producing so blinkered they have been and now they are reaping the rewards.

move on.
 
ianp5a said:
There are about 3 million Euro 4 Diesels on the roads in Germany currently. And another 5.5 million Euro 5 cars. There is great pressure to scrap, replace or modify them somehow. Modification is expensive and could lose performance. And is only possible on about half the Euro 5 cars. The fact that it is being considered shows how serious the current crisis is.
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Many car manufacturers ran their own scrappage schemes in the UK over the past year.
 
Mr Bump said:
consumers don't want big heavy diesel powered trucks which is pretty much all JLR are producing so blinkered they have been and now they are reaping the rewards.

move on.
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Shows how little you know, SUV's are continuing to be a very popular choice, the majority of which are diesel powered.
Jaguar are soon to launch their electric SUV.
Perhaps you ought to research things before making wild statements.
 
nilagin said:
Shows how little you know, SUV's are continuing to be a very popular choice, the majority of which are diesel powered.
Jaguar are soon to launch their electric SUV.
Perhaps you ought to research things before making wild statements.
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you keep on with this SOON business everyone else has been doing it for donkeys years.
JLR are going down I reckon and it will be all down to mismanagement but they will blame the government,
 
wuyanxu said:
So your message is to buy brand new cars. That 2 years old Euro6 car is too polluting.
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No, I am saying more recent Euro6 cars are cleaner than the earlier Euro 6 cars.
 
There was mention a week or so ago that a lot of diesel pollution in cities comes from diesel generators on refrigerated trucks as they aren't regulated for emissions like the engines. The emissions being the equivalent of several diesel cars. Add to that non regulated diesel generators on building sites, car emissions aren't really so much the real problem anymore.
 
ianp5a said:
I thought diesel wasn't very popular in the US. Which is presumably JLRs main market.
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Trumps 25% import duty is the problem with the US, not whether it is diesel or not.
Ford build diesel engines in the UK for the F150 pick up and in America they build the 6.5litre Superduty diesel for their larger pickups, so they must like some diesels.
 
nilagin said:
No, I am saying more recent Euro6 cars are cleaner than the earlier Euro 6 cars.
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So lets get this straight, you want people to buy the latest less polluting diesels, that run on the same fuel that causes lung disease and respiratory diseases?
So in your warped world less children will get severe life threatening illnesses?
 
Mr Bump said:
you keep on with this SOON business everyone else has been doing it for donkeys years.
JLR are going down I reckon and it will be all down to mismanagement but they will blame the government,
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Everyone else hasn't been doing it for years.
Name another electric SUV currently for sale on the market.
 
ianp5a said:
I thought diesel wasn't very popular in the US. Which is presumably JLRs main market.
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Even our EU 6 standards, due in 2015, do not quite match the States’ strict limits on smog- and acid rain-causing emissions.

Relative to a gasoline-burning engine, it is more difficult to control NOx in a diesel, which is why, to meet those comparatively stricter emissions limits, diesels in the US are required to use expensive, onboard after-treatment systems, which decrease the amount of particulate matter that leaves the tailpipe. Diesel engines are already more expensive to develop than gasoline units, given their turbos and complex injection systems. After-treatment systems make them even pricier.
 
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