Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

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neil_g said:
Disagree. I can think of 2 places that have chargers (other than motorway services) both are 5 star hotels.

Certainly around here (Southampton/Basingstoke) Supermarkets, nope. Town center parking, nope. Retail parks, nope. All the useful places to put a charger basically.
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I don't know Southampton, but ZapMap shows loads of charging points in the town centre car parks, one across the road from ASDA etc.
 
FujiLove said:
I don't know Southampton, but ZapMap shows loads of charging points in the town centre car parks, one across the road from ASDA etc.
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Cool thanks for the heads up. Just looked and all the places I don't go :p

Seriously though 8 points in West Quay multi story and 1 in IKEA multi storey. That's crazy.

Still seems like a drop in the ocean looking at the quantity in each location.
 
neil_g said:
Disagree. I can think of 2 places that have chargers (other than motorway services) both are 5 star hotels.

Certainly around here (Southampton/Basingstoke) Supermarkets, nope. Town center parking, nope. Retail parks, nope. All the useful places to put a charger basically.
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It could also be a London thing, where every other car park has multiple destination chargers.

But public charging is still no substitute to home charging. I bet a good percentage of the company car driver have driveways but still didn't bother to plug in. In the end, it's just a car to get into cheaper BIK tax bracket.


Membership could also be a barrier to entry (but not excuse for never plugging in).

We went to Stratford Westfield on Saturday, parked at nearby train station car park (because cheaper when we stayed almost whole day). Zap-map said there's quite a few chargers, but they are Source London, a network we rarely encounter and wanted £10 just to get started. We didn't charge there.
On Sunday we went to Morrisons, there is CYC chargers which are free with Polar plus membership (shockingly £8 per month, expensive if only used occasionally) My cancelled card somehow still works.
(underlined membership costs amongst my rambling)
 
neil_g said:
Disagree. I can think of 2 places that have chargers (other than motorway services) both are 5 star hotels.

Certainly around here (Southampton/Basingstoke) Supermarkets, nope. Town center parking, nope. Retail parks, nope. All the useful places to put a charger basically.
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Spotted two in a local out of town shopping place - two in a large car park of probably 1000 spaces... Pod Point?
https://www.zap-map.com/pts/pfgnlir/

national Self build center at Junc 16 puts everyone to shame...
https://www.zap-map.com/locations/swindon-charging-points/

Weird how Zap lists someones house? 5 Seacole crescent is residential
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.549...=314.2223&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i13312!8i6656

So we have 40 charging points for a population of 220,000 - that'll work !
 
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wuyanxu said:
I bet a good percentage of the company car driver have driveways but still didn't bother to plug in. In the end, it's just a car to get into cheaper BIK tax bracket.
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Which could be an interesting demographic, that those with good jobs getting a company car can afford the better home with a driveway? Those that might be in a better position to afford/decide on an EV?
There's many homes still being built without driveways looking at the new estates, especially the smaller homes. Obviously once you hit the expensive 3 and all 4 beds then it seems to be a must have feature...
 
wuyanxu said:
There are ample destination chargers everywhere, most of the time not being used.
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As I've mentioned before on my circa 250 mile route(s) which includes through Cambs. into Norfolk, down through Suffolk back to Beds. Via Cambs.
In fact a lot of the lumpy bit that sticks out to the right on a UK map ...
None of the garages I have ever used, have charging points, nor do any of my customers or places that I may stop to eat at ...
I'm sure some of the larger towns may have them somewhere but I see no point in driving several miles out of my way to get a zap ...
 
Cobra said:
As I've mentioned before on my circa 250 mile route(s) which includes through Cambs. into Norfolk, down through Suffolk back to Beds. Via Cambs.
In fact a lot of the lumpy bit that sticks out to the right on a UK map ...
None of the garages I have ever used, have charging points, nor do any of my customers or places that I may stop to eat at ...
I'm sure some of the larger towns may have them somewhere but I see no point in driving several miles out of my way to get a zap ...
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None at all, anywhere you're passing?


Screenshot 2018-11-12 at 13.49.58.jpg
 
neil_g said:
Certainly around here (Southampton/Basingstoke) Supermarkets, nope. Town center parking, nope. Retail parks, nope. All the useful places to put a charger basically.
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But one thing they do have in a retail park in Southampton is the LCE event at the Novotel on the 27th November for ogling purposes...
sorry to interrupt.
 
srichards said:
None at all, anywhere you're passing?
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It seems that I pass within a few miles of some, (I don't go into the towns, they are more "rural" calls, ) but I repeat there are none where I actually go to eat / fuel up or stop to work.
Just checked the actual locations of a few random ones and they are service areas ( who buy's fuel in these places?) and car dealerships, I have a van I don't need a car :D
 
neil_g said:
Cool thanks for the heads up. Just looked and all the places I don't go :p

Seriously though 8 points in West Quay multi story and 1 in IKEA multi storey. That's crazy.

Still seems like a drop in the ocean looking at the quantity in each location.
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Is it really a 'drop in the ocean' though? When you click on the charging point pins for Southampton in ZapMap you'll see that most are listed as available. And when I see charging points when I'm out and about, they're almost always empty (ie. not being used). I may be completely wrong, but it seems to me most charging is happening at home and work places, and there's plenty of points in car parks for the current volume of EVs.
 
Saw someone actually being ticketed for ICEing an EV charging slot in Sainsbury's. So did another ICE driver who came running out to move her car before she got a ticket.
 
Byker28i said:
How many of those are private/restricted?
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I usually have the public access filter and the no physical restrictions filter on in zapmap to exclude any problematic charging points so I'd think the majority could be used during normal working hours. 24 hour access only sites are fewer in number.
 
FujiLove said:
Is it really a 'drop in the ocean' though? When you click on the charging point pins for Southampton in ZapMap you'll see that most are listed as available. And when I see charging points when I'm out and about, they're almost always empty (ie. not being used). I may be completely wrong, but it seems to me most charging is happening at home and work places, and there's plenty of points in car parks for the current volume of EVs.
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The ones I see are often empty, but the issue is that if there is only 1 or 2, it doesn't really matter if they are empty a lot of the time, its when people want to use them that is important. If I stop at Ikea with their 1 point, I don't want to wait 2 hours for that person to finish shopping or their car is charged. With petrol you have instant supply, aside from the odd 5 minute wait.

The point someone made about new builds is also interesting. Lots of even the 3/4 beds only have 1 drive, the rest is on road parking (and often there is not enough of that). Wouldn't it make sense to start incorporating this into all developments. Ok, the main issue I guess is that someone could move there now and not go EV for 15 years, in which case it makes the charging point out of date or wasted?
 
cambsno said:
The point someone made about new builds is also interesting. Lots of even the 3/4 beds only have 1 drive, the rest is on road parking (and often there is not enough of that). Wouldn't it make sense to start incorporating this into all developments. Ok, the main issue I guess is that someone could move there now and not go EV for 15 years, in which case it makes the charging point out of date or wasted?
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Most households have two cars, so twin charging point should be considered at a minimum.
 
cambsno said:
Wouldn't it make sense to start incorporating this into all developments. Ok, the main issue I guess is that someone could move there now and not go EV for 15 years, in which case it makes the charging point out of date or wasted?
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Yes! New developments should have charging infrastructure built in, either to individual driveways or to communal parking areas. I take the point that the charging point might get outdated but it'll only be the socket that'll need changing eventually, much like the old round pin 15A sockets were changed for the 13A square pin ones soon after WW 2.
 
FujiLove said:
Is it really a 'drop in the ocean' though? When you click on the charging point pins for Southampton in ZapMap you'll see that most are listed as available. And when I see charging points when I'm out and about, they're almost always empty (ie. not being used). I may be completely wrong, but it seems to me most charging is happening at home and work places, and there's plenty of points in car parks for the current volume of EVs.
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I don't go looking for charging points as I have no use for them, but the only ones I have noticed are the ones in the visitors car park at work and also in an O2 Arena car park. I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread but all the charging spaces were full in the O2 car park although not all the cars were plugged in, so I guess some EV owners figure they are reserved for EV cars regardless of whether being charged. When we returned to the car park 4.5 hours later the exact same cars were still in the charging spaces, still in the same plugged in or not plugged in state.
Not exactly in the spirit of use of the charging points.
Even at work emails are periodically sent out reminding people that they should vacate the spaces as soon as they have finished charging so that others can use the chargers.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Nope. Wrong
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Agreed its at least 3 round here, thats why its a bloody nightmare negotiating the roads as the drives are barely large enough for 2 cars!
 
FujiLove said:
Is it really a 'drop in the ocean' though? When you click on the charging point pins for Southampton in ZapMap you'll see that most are listed as available. And when I see charging points when I'm out and about, they're almost always empty (ie. not being used). I may be completely wrong, but it seems to me most charging is happening at home and work places, and there's plenty of points in car parks for the current volume of EVs.
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IKEA - 1 space of 900
West Quay - 8 of 2500

Thats poor by any standard.
 
neil_g said:
Who stops for a survey these days. I saw one recently and actively crossed the road to avoid it :D Becides, old data? Not clear, page is terrible on mobile.

Bar single occupancy everyone I know has a car each per household.
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But you likely don’t know most people. 2015 data. I can’t imagine things have changed that much in three years.
 
Cobra said:
Agreed its at least 3 round here, thats why its a bloody nightmare negotiating the roads as the drives are barely large enough for 2 cars!
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Straw poll - based on where I live
6 houses in my close
1 - 3 cars - 3 adults
2 - 5 cars (us) 4 adults and the TVR in the garage
3 - 3 cars - 3 adults
4 - 2 cars - 2 adults
5 - 2 cars - 2 adults - 1 teenager learning to drive
6 - 1 adult - 1 car

Thats repeated across local houses in an affluent area who would be most likely to be the first to move to EV cars - based on democraphic, disposal income, have driveways ;)

We're taking about households who have cars, who would be the obvious ones to move to EV, not households without cars
 
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There's 37.7m vehicles registered in the UK, 32.2m in England alone
https://assets.publishing.service.g...vehicle-licensing-statistics-2017-revised.pdf

Anyone got the stats on cities vs rural? I can see in cities that car ownership could be falling as there are parking restrictions, charges for driving in town, parking costs if you go anywhere, the ease of taxi's like Uber, or public transport. Make it difficult or unattractive to own and operate a vehicle in town to reduce congestion, reduce emissions?
 
Byker28i said:
Straw poll - based on where I live
6 houses in my close
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To keep it the same, me, neighbour either side and 3 houses opposite.
Left, 3 cars 3 adults ( +1 occasionally when home from college / uni)
Me 1 car 1 van
Right 2 adults 3 cars (WTF?)
Opposite left 2 adults 2 cars
opposite center 4 adults 3 cars 1 van
opposite right 3 adults 3 cars.
 
neil_g said:
what if the survey happened to get a sample set of single occupancy?
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No one asked me and I have a car and a van ...
 
Cobra said:
Right 2 adults 3 cars (WTF?)
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Fun car, or something else. I mean until my daughter and boyfriend moved in we had 2 daily cars (Mazda 6 and MX-5) the TVR in the garage and i used to have a motorbike for commuting (when not using car). Now we have two additional cars and I've not got the bike.
 
Byker28i said:
Fun car, or something else.
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Not a fun car no, they are nothing special either just the run of the mill
BMW X5
Ford RS
Merc Coupe of some sort ..
Maybe one is ready for when the 6 year old starts to drive?
 
Next door (up), 1 person, no car.
Us, 2 people, 3 cars & 4 bikes.
Next door (down), 2 people, 4 cars, 1 van.
 
Most people I know have 2 cars. In fact I was surprised at our new neighbours who moved in with just the 1 car between them!!!
 
Cobra said:
That's not my idea of a fun car, but then my names not Neil ;)
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Certainly my idea of a fun car, I have fun every day. ;)
The second I first started the car at the dealership when I bought it, I developed a big soppy grin. Same grin appears every time I start it 14 months later. :)
 
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