Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

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MatBin said:
As is often the case, the energy needs to be transportable, which is why fossil fuels have remained dominant for so long, easily discovered, refined and transported relatively safely from one location to another.
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Electricity grid infrastructure is already built for distribution. Electricity can be generated locally via roof-top solar. It doesn't require discovery or any form of mining. Even better than fossil fuel, electricity can be easily converted to all other form of energy.I fail to see how you can say the quoted statement.

Just add localised demand smoothing batteries and we are golden. That will allow us to use our existing infrastructure and all forms of renewable energy to their full potential. Current grid is built to meet peak demand, there's loads of room to charge batteries during low demand, allowing us to use more at any time without expensive infrastructure upgrade.

And have you studied that image? 2030 projection is that we only needs that tiny amount of solar PV.
 
wuyanxu said:
Electricity grid infrastructure is already built for distribution. Electricity can be generated locally via roof-top solar. It doesn't require discovery or any form of mining. Even better than fossil fuel, electricity can be easily converted to all other form of energy.I fail to see how you can say the quoted statement.

Just add localised demand smoothing batteries and we are golden. That will allow us to use our existing infrastructure and all forms of renewable energy to their full potential. Current grid is built to meet peak demand, there's loads of room to charge batteries during low demand, allowing us to use more at any time without expensive infrastructure upgrade.

And have you studied that image? 2030 projection is that we only needs that tiny amount of solar PV.
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Where are we (planet Earth not just a few houses in the UK) going to get all this extra electricity from, solar isnt going to work unless there is massive investment in new infrastructure. Hence my quote why fossil fuel has dominated.
 
Mr Bump said:
because digging oil up is really safe and good for the environment.

Your off your rocker if you actually think EVs will damage the environment more than oil ever has in its entire lifetime.
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And yet having to replace your car, instead of buying an EV, you chose to buy a petrol car and one that doesn't even conform to the latest emissions standard.
 
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Diesel vehicles aren't the only culprits of particulate emissions and early deaths in the UK, there is also the 1.5Million woodburners, each of which produces the equivalent of 6 modern diesel lorries or 18 modern diesel cars. It is estimated another 200,000 woodburners will be installed over the next 12 months.
There is approximately 12.4 Million diesel cars registered in the UK, so when in use the 1.5 Million woodburners are the worst polluters.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...KEAw&usg=AOvVaw1zsogu0k5j9zJ88NOIPJcE&ampcf=1

In fact if they banned woodburners particulate emissions would be drastically cut and the air quality returned to safe levels.
 
List price for a Fiesta auto is £17,395 OTR. What's that in Euros? (ZDnG is the unique vehicle code that Ford's site gives me.)
 
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Nod said:
List price for a Fiesta auto is £17,395 OTR. What's that in Euros? (ZDnG is the unique vehicle code that Ford's site gives me.)
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Somehow I think you will find you get a lot more car for your money with a Fiesta.
https://www.dezeen.com/tag/biomega/

At current exchange rates the Fiesta is about £300 cheaper and comes with the added bonus of doors and padded seats at the very least.
 
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I like it!

Not sure why it got the Tesla tag other than it using a Tesla battery pack and controllers.
 
WOW 53 Pages and almost 2100 postings and yet no one realises that it`s never gonna be Electric all the way!!!
 
Jaguar have developed a power train that'll fit any XK engine bay. Around £60,000 IIRC. IIRC, Harry drove one after his wedding.
 
Mr Bump said:
Yeah you needed to badly this attempt is absolute garbage

https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/ford/mondeo/hybrid/review
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The main reason for the low rating is lack of luggage space due having only been available as a saloon and the battery taking up some of the boot space. This has been addressed on the facelift model with the addition of an estate model.
Your post was about GM USA there is no GM any longer in the UK. Ford have various hybrids in America and have had for quite a few years. You really do need to do some proper research before posting and then perhaps you are less likely to post absolute garbage, I have my doubts, but there is a first for everything.
 
nilagin said:
Ford have various hybrids in America and have had for quite a few years.
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Why not in UK? Are Ford only producing hybrids and EV to meet US government compliance? Why are Ford still lagging behind in global EV market?

It appears the car industry is a race to the bottom. Whoever gets there first looses, everyone is happy pushing out tiny evolutionary products "CO2 emission reduced by 5% in this year's model". If it wasn't for Tesla, we'd still be driving mild-hybrids worse than Toyota from 20 years ago.
 
wuyanxu said:
Why not in UK? Are Ford only producing hybrids and EV to meet US government compliance? Why are Ford still lagging behind in global EV market?

It appears the car industry is a race to the bottom. Whoever gets there first looses, everyone is happy pushing out tiny evolutionary products "CO2 emission reduced by 5% in this year's model". If it wasn't for Tesla, we'd still be driving mild-hybrids worse than Toyota from 20 years ago.
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Because the size of the market hasn't made it worthwhile. Much easier and cost effective to let everyone else iron out the pitfalls and increase battery life then step in.

https://news.google.com/articles/CA...9935CjCe0eYCMNLmzAU?hl=en-GB&gl=GB&ceid=GB:en
 
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nilagin said:
Because the size of the market hasn't made it worthwhile. Much easier and cost effective to let everyone else iron out the pitfalls and increase battery life then step in.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEKXijUOFcRfg_wk6bxD1u2kqGQgEKhAIACoHCAow9935CjCe0eYCMNLmzAU?hl=en-GB&gl=GB&ceid=GB:en
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*Sigh* your trickery by disguising as Google news link fouled me to click it.
Here is the facts check on that article: https://www.speakev.com/threads/another-ev-hit-piece.130816/

Let's hope traditional car companies can move as fast as you said. But I doubt it in Ford's case, where are their upcoming EV's? Most other manufacturer have multiple EV coming out by 2020.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...hey-still-arent-moving-fast-enough-2018-11-27

The problem is customer education. The size of market is small because dealers aren't pushing people towards greener vehicles. Unfortunately dealers are only paid by the number of cars they sell. So they sell the vehicle that requires the least amount of effort to them, rather than the most suitable vehicle for an individual. Only way to go into a dealership and end up with EV is to say "I want an EV" to begin with. That is why size of the market seems small right now.
 
wuyanxu said:
Let's hope traditional car companies can move as fast as you said. But I doubt it in Ford's case, where are their upcoming EV's? Most other manufacturer have multiple EV coming out by 2020.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...hey-still-arent-moving-fast-enough-2018-11-27

The problem is customer education. The size of market is small because dealers aren't pushing people towards greener vehicles. Unfortunately dealers are only paid by the number of cars they sell. So they sell the vehicle that requires the least amount of effort to them, rather than the most suitable vehicle for an individual. Only way to go into a dealership and end up with EV is to say "I want an EV" to begin with. That is why size of the market seems small right now.
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Ford EV 's are in development much like other manufacturers, they are on track to have an EV SUV with a 300 mile range by 2020 and will have 40 EV models globally by 2022, so some will arrive earlier.
When I go into a car dealer to buy a car, I go in to buy a specific car, I don't need a dealer to make my mind up for me, most of my mates and family are also the same.
https://www.at.ford.com/en/homepage...ord-statement-on-business-transformation.html
Tesla still have to be in business to overrun other car manufacturers. They are still having production woes and earlier in the year were weeks away from bankruptcy. Just because they made a profit in the last quarter, it doesn't mean the trend will continue, they will probably make a loss for the full year, yet again.

Ford also manufacture EV Transits in Germany for DHL.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...AhAB&usg=AOvVaw0L43mfOtsglhZhGZ4vi5pJ&ampcf=1
 
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Why are ford so late to the party in the UK? Plenty of other big manufacturers have EVs available NOW.
 
Nod said:
Why are ford so late to the party in the UK? Plenty of other big manufacturers have EVs available NOW.
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As already answered above. Market not big enough to make worthwhile. Battery range not big enough to make worthwhile.
An electric Focus actually went on sale in 2015 when the Focus was facelifted. Only ones I have seen are the fleet used by security at work or the one that our union convenor seems to have for his own personal commute and private use.
 
Came across this news article, an oil field in the sea are installing wind farm to reduce CO2 emission:
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/09/10/equinor-exploring-floating-wind-to-power-offshore-oil-fields/

Interesting how a 88MW wind farm is only able to cover 35% annual power demand of a few oil rigs.
To put the 88MW wind farm into perspective, at half production for 2 hours is 88MWh, which is able to power an electric car for 352,000 miles, or 35 electric cars for 1 year of average motoring.

Electric car CO2 emission is measured from energy production to transmission to charging losses to use. But ICE car emission are only measured from fuel tank to tailpipe (what about transportation emissions? refinery emission? oil field emission?).
 
neil_g said:
So you agree that eV battery production is probably more damaging than driving a diesel then?
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That argument is b*****ks. Sure the initial energy used to produce the battery may be high, but over it's life time that will cancel itself out.

Unlike ICE cars where you have that initial energy consumption in the building of that ICE. You have to factor in the energy used to drill, transport, refine, transport every single litre of fuel that ICE is going to use it's entire life.

Even when you factor in the energy used to make the electricity for the EV it's still more than a 50% reduction in natural resources consumed over the life time of the car.
 
MrDrizz said:
That argument is b*****ks. Sure the initial energy used to produce the battery may be high, but over it's life time that will cancel itself out.

Unlike ICE cars where you have that initial energy consumption in the building of that ICE. You have to factor in the energy used to drill, transport, refine, transport every single litre of fuel that ICE is going to use it's entire life.

Even when you factor in the energy used to make the electricity for the EV it's still more than a 50% reduction in natural resources consumed over the life time of the car.
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Go back and read my previous posts that I'm referring to. Im not just talking about energy.

Keep your profanity to yourself thanks.
 
Free charging for electric cars will be available for customers at some Tesco stores from next year.

Tesco, in partnership with Volkswagen, plans to install almost 2,500 charging bays at up to 600 stores by 2020.

A standard 7kW charger will be available for free, but drivers will have to pay for a faster service.
 
Mr Bump said:
A standard 7kW charger will be available for free, but drivers will have to pay for a faster service.
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In keeping with their products then.
"Value" and "finest" :D
 
Cobra said:
In keeping with their products then.
"Value" and "finest" :D
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Great marketing for them, stay longer and get free leccy and now other supermarkets will be forced to follow suit.
 
Sainsburys has had free points for a while - at least, the one that we use has. Used to be 2 Tesla slots but after a fairly recent refit, there are now 6 free chargers (for up to 3 hours). A normal shop gets us enough free charge to get us there and back - a longer shop gets a few free days of commuting.

The slots are also policed so ICE cars get ticketed.
 
Mr Bump said:
Great marketing for them, stay longer and get free leccy and now other supermarkets will be forced to follow suit.
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If you are a woman, maybe. I am in and out in about 10 minutes, there is no way on earth I am going to prolong going to a supermarket because I need to recharge a car.
 
Mr Bump said:
GM moving away from conventional cars focuses on its line-up of trucks, electric and self-driving vehicles.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46350057
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Whilst GM are going to be making a sizeable portion of their workforce redundant, Ford will be moving some of their workforce about to where it's needed and no one has to lose their jobs.
https://www.industryweek.com/leadership/ford-rejiggering-us-plants-boost-suv-production.
Seems like GM never learnt their lessons from when the hard to file for bankruptcy and take government bailouts several years ago.
 
nilagin said:
Seems like GM never learnt their lessons from when the hard to file for bankruptcy and take government bailouts several years ago.
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And sabotage deals to prevent SAAB from going bankrupt. Gits.
 
gman said:
And sabotage deals to prevent SAAB from going bankrupt. Gits.
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All in the name to stop Chinese getting the technology long after they bought Volvo and most manufacturers set up collaborations with communists back in China.

Opel is now Peugeot. Considering how crap they were that is probably good news.

That sounds a lot like somebody was sabotaging the company just like yahoo / Flickr.

Now they will get their exclusive trump treatment. Carrot and stick. We will see what happens
 
Just seen Autoexpress article comparing Kona electric against Toyota C-HR hybrid.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/hyund...c-vs-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-vs-toyota-c-hr

Using their numbers, added together for total cost of ownership driving 36k over 3 years. Kona electric came out as £20,418, the hybrid costs £19,163.
Despite the Kona is predicted to have almost £5000 more in depreciation (I wish that will be true, I'd be first in line for a Kona at their predicted price in 3 years time). Fuel cost of Kona electric over 36k is predicted to be only £1008, whereas driving the 53mpg economical (and slow) petrol hybrid will cost you £4026. Another £400 saved in servicing over the 3 years.


The 40kWh Kona electric gets 176 miles range in Autoexpress tests. Let's round down to 150 miles worst case dependable range. That is still one full week, 5 working days of commute for a lot of people (30 miles) (so no need to plug in every night). Or 2 hours of motorway driving between charging stops. It's a very capable normal car for the masses. Total ownership cost almost same as a similar 53mpg petrol hybrid eco-box, but much higher performance and instant electric torque.


This "engineering explained" Youtuber (I had been following him when he was using a tiny whiteboard and very bad camera) lived with a Leaf 40kWh for 6 months, and here are his thoughts:
View: https://youtu.be/Qo4byxhI6kY



He is a very much petrol head. He used to own a WRX STI, now a Subaru Crosstrek and Honda S2000, which he supercharged other various mods. His channel's main purpose is explain car engineering, many of which on ICE engine and powertrain, electric is not his bread and butter.
But his conclusion was: EV are brilliant, fast and cheap to run, do buy one if your situation suits one, for example as second car for local trips. (what I've been saying all along)
 
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