Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

[Mr Perceptive]

Do you drive a cheap i10 or something? Or did you only look at Tesla? The way to maximise saving with EV is to buy the cheapest car that fits your journey. So for your 160 miles, I'd be looking at 180 miles EPA or 200 miles WLTP rated cars, nothing on the market unfortunately (IIRC).

You've missed the point it's 320 miles (I would like to come home!), there is no opportunity to recharge whilst I'm at the factory that I'm working at (and they are in the automotive supply chain!!)

Show me an EV with that sort of range, that costs less than the approx 48K, I've spent on my Volvo doing nearly 200K miles..........

 

[Byker28i]

You've missed the point it's 320 miles (I would like to come home!), there is no opportunity to recharge whilst I'm at the factory that I'm working at (and they are in the automotive supply chain!!)

Show me an EV with that sort of range, that costs less than the approx 48K, I've spent on my Volvo doing nearly 200K miles..........

Testla Model 3 - just. 348 mile range on the long range version for £47,050, however lets be honest it won't really do that so would need plugging in at some point. and that price is now extras like wheels, colour paint (so black only) and no autopilot.

 

[srichards]

You've missed the point it's 320 miles (I would like to come home!), there is no opportunity to recharge whilst I'm at the factory that I'm working at (and they are in the automotive supply chain!!)

Show me an EV with that sort of range, that costs less than the approx 48K, I've spent on my Volvo doing nearly 200K miles..........

You have a 160 mile each way commute? Daily?

Workplaces can get grants for chargers. I'd be tackling your employer.

 

[Mr Perceptive]

Testla Model 3 - just. 348 mile range on the long range version for £47,050, however lets be honest it won't really do that so would need plugging in at some point. and that price is now extras like wheels, colour paint (so black only) and no autopilot.

Yes and very little headroom eg a diversion caused by a motorway incident, etc...... I don't disagree that EVs are the future (and that's from an ex-Petrolhead who has owned various gas guzzlers including 6 x TVR ), but its just not there yet, not in cost, range or infrastructure....... (I was on the West Coast of Scotland a couple of weeks ago, racking up 1500 miles in a week, there were very few petrol stations let alone charging points. If you live in the centre of a city then maybe it makes sense, but then so does public transport).

I agree with the thread title, I want to try and hang onto my current diesel until there is a solution, I'm certainly loath to invest in another 'new' diesel and with the mileage I rack up, it probably still is the sensible option....just.....

 

[Mr Perceptive]

You have a 160 mile each way commute? Daily?

Workplaces can get grants for chargers. I'd be tackling your employer.

No!! but I work at different sites all over the country, I was just describing a typical site visit. Also I'm effectively self employed (ie Ltd Co, contractor) so would have no sway over whether or not my clients should have charging points.

 

[srichards]

No!! but I work at different sites all over the country, I was just describing a typical site visit. Also I'm effectively self employed (ie Ltd Co, contractor) so would have no sway over whether or not my clients should have charging points.

I see. If you have a lot of variable destinations then the plug in hybrid is probably the safest option for a next car. The more you can plug them in the cheaper they are to run.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Do you drive a cheap i10 or something?

I ran an i10 for 3 years. Great little work car. Used to do a round journey of 300+ miles twice a week and it was quite comfortable. Managed 47MPG as well. Not so much cheap as inexpensive.

 

[nilagin]

Imagine guaranteed no queue for EV charger. Or able to plug-in at any destination (eg. your factory, pub car park for walks)

To prevent queues, somehow you have to decide what is the right number of chargers. Obviously not every EV will require a charge when it gets to it's destination. But people will also have to return to their car and move it once the charge is complete, hoping to find another space, but leave the charger vacant so someone else can use it.

Take your trip to Silverstone for instance, they have parking for thousands of cars. For attendees of a major event, if a large proportion are driving EV's, there is a good chance a lot of them will require a charge when they get there, most will have come via the M1 and could use the charges at the service station as you leave the A1 or as you rejoin after. That could be several thousand Ev's all wanting a recharge. I can still see there being queues at places like that.

 

[ancient_mariner]

From the circles we're running around in this thread it's clear that for the public to take EVs seriously as a viable alternative to ICE power then the vehicles need to have a minimum 350mile real-world range (i.e. manufacturer's claim around 420-450 miles) and cost around 10% to 15% more than the equivalent ICE to purchase new. At the moment it doesn't matter whether there's charging infrastructure available or not because the perception is that it's going to take at least 30min to charge IF a charger can be found available, and compared to ICE that's psychologically unacceptable.

Yes, people are only interested in green transport if it doesn't inconvenience them more than a small amount, and the more the issue is evangelised aggressively the more it will harden attitudes against EV. Make it so that there's no practical reason not to switch and people will be much less reluctant to switch.

And as already noted, having car designs that don't look like a smacked 4rse will help - Tesla's are not especially attractive either, before someone suggests them as being an good looking design, tending towards bland American rather than being simply outright ugly.

 

[nilagin]

And as already noted, having car designs that don't look like a smacked 4rse will help - Tesla's are not especially attractive either, before someone suggests them as being an good looking design, tending towards bland American rather than being simply outright ugly.

The Model 3 design doesn't look so bad, I just don't like the way the front of all Teslas look as though they have forgot to fit the grill and left it blank. They even outline where it should have been. Either fit a fake one or design it without, don't make it look as though you forgot to cut a hole in the bumper and fit one.

 

[Byker28i]

To prevent queues, somehow you have to decide what is the right number of chargers. Obviously not every EV will require a charge when it gets to it's destination. But people will also have to return to their car and move it once the charge is complete, hoping to find another space, but leave the charger vacant so someone else can use it.

Take your trip to Silverstone for instance, they have parking for thousands of cars. For attendees of a major event, if a large proportion are driving EV's, there is a good chance a lot of them will require a charge when they get there, most will have come via the M1 and could use the charges at the service station as you leave the A1 or as you rejoin after. That could be several thousand Ev's all wanting a recharge. I can still see there being queues at places like that.

Probably silverstone could make extra money as a location of a massive charging point, not a bad spot centrally, not far from M1, M40 and already has the parking spaces. They'd have to deliver the power grid there to accomodate it, but that should go in as government investment because that won't be cheap putting in say 200 70Kw charging points.

 

[Byker28i]

The Model 3 design doesn't look so bad, I just don't like the way the front of all Teslas look as though they have forgot to fit the grill and left it blank. They even outline where it should have been. Either fit a fake one or design it without, don't make it look as though you forgot to cut a hole in the bumper and fit one.

I'll agree having seen one in the flesh you can see the way the design is going, driven by current laws about where everything has to be placed on a car. Lets face it, the people who have these want then as green transport, not as objects of desire.

 

[wyx087]

Personally, I thought Model S looks great, including both old and new nose design. If only we can get them in European size, with practical interior storage. Model 3 looks too...... bubble-y? Like a S that has its 4 sides compressed but the glass bubble passenger compartment hasn't decreased proportionally in size.

You've missed the point it's 320 miles (I would like to come home!), there is no opportunity to recharge whilst I'm at the factory that I'm working at (and they are in the automotive supply chain!!)

Show me an EV with that sort of range, that costs less than the approx 48K, I've spent on my Volvo doing nearly 200K miles..........

Sorry, for your target price it will take a looooong time for pure EV to get there. I thought your mileage is actually better suited to a diesel hybrid like the Volvo V60 PHEV. Unfortunately they don't make those anymore.

But let's be honest, most people won't be required to drive that distance regularly. I know my 60 miles return commute is already on the high side in terms of people's average commute distance.

To prevent queues, somehow you have to decide what is the right number of chargers. Obviously not every EV will require a charge when it gets to it's destination. But people will also have to return to their car and move it once the charge is complete, hoping to find another space, but leave the charger vacant so someone else can use it.

Take your trip to Silverstone for instance, they have parking for thousands of cars. For attendees of a major event, if a large proportion are driving EV's, there is a good chance a lot of them will require a charge when they get there, most will have come via the M1 and could use the charges at the service station as you leave the A1 or as you rejoin after. That could be several thousand Ev's all wanting a recharge. I can still see there being queues at places like that.

If there is a cheap 7kW destination charger at every parking space, there won't be any need to think about vacating the parking spot. In colder climate locations, they already have a socket at each parking spot for engine block heaters, it isn't a big ask, especially not for newly built car parks.

Queuing will happen during high demands just like at petrol stations. This is why at each and every EV charging location, multiple chargers is required. The charger location at J14 M1 has 9 chargers. If all cars take 30min to charge, and people don't arrive in groups, you'd only have to wait 4 minutes for a charger to become free, not too different to waiting at a busy petrol station.

 

[Byker28i]

From the circles we're running around in this thread it's clear that for the public to take EVs seriously as a viable alternative to ICE power then the vehicles need to have a minimum 350mile real-world range (i.e. manufacturer's claim around 420-450 miles) and cost around 10% to 15% more than the equivalent ICE to purchase new.

Agreed.

At the moment it doesn't matter whether there's charging infrastructure available or not because the perception is that it's going to take at least 30min to charge IF a charger can be found available, and compared to ICE that's psychologically unacceptable.

If you've got the range then for most people that will do on the daily drive. For most people with longer journeys, thats going to probably mean holidays, which means planning in some stopping time. If we get the infrastructure then I can see a whole new demand for better service stations/stopping points or perhaps splitting journeys with a hotel stop with a guaranteed dedicated charging point.

The take up isn't there yet, it's all a bit chicken and egg, the infrastructure probably won't go in until there's more EV cars, but EV won't get a huge pick up in ownership until there's more infrastructure. Without the pickup there's no urgency for motor companies to pump huge money into R&D on these etc.

 

[wyx087]

From the circles we're running around in this thread it's clear that for the public to take EVs seriously as a viable alternative to ICE power then the vehicles need to have a minimum 350mile real-world range (i.e. manufacturer's claim around 420-450 miles) and cost around 10% to 15% more than the equivalent ICE to purchase new. At the moment it doesn't matter whether there's charging infrastructure available or not because the perception is that it's going to take at least 30min to charge IF a charger can be found available, and compared to ICE that's psychologically unacceptable.

Yes, people are only interested in green transport if it doesn't inconvenience them more than a small amount, and the more the issue is evangelised aggressively the more it will harden attitudes against EV. Make it so that there's no practical reason not to switch and people will be much less reluctant to switch.

There's 2 points I'm making the whole thread (well, 3, but we've agreed a few pages ago to not bring up that one):
First, range. If we are going to set an arbitrary mileage, shouldn't we be basing it on how long we are willing to drive in one sitting? 200 miles real world range means 3 hours of solid speed-limit motorway driving, seems a long distance. Your 350 miles seems to be based on a day-return trip as per Mr P. example, which is understandable, but see point number 2.
Second is charging infrastructure. I agree it's a chicken and egg problem, this is where manufacturers and government need to invest before the cars arrive, to make charging ubiquitous and highly visible. Without visible infrastructure, people won't think of EV's as true ICE car replacements (I still don't!)

But currently, there are many people who are able to adopt EV with minimum inconvenience AND able to enjoy cheaper motoring, as long as they own driveway AND their commute distance suits EV. So hopefully those people will think about EV before defaulting to petrol for their local journeys.

Unfortunately, what was intended as bringing awareness and disputing myths are seen as aggression by some.......

Probably silverstone could make extra money as a location of a massive charging point, not a bad spot centrally, not far from M1, M40 and already has the parking spaces. They'd have to deliver the power grid there to accomodate it, but that should go in as government investment because that won't be cheap putting in say 200 70Kw charging points.

70kW chargers will be able to charge 1,120 miles of range over 4 hour period a car is likely to be parked there. A bit excessive.

EV need 2 types of charging: en-route quick charging and destination "fast" charging. Silverstone car park, being a car park, needs the latter and the hardware are pretty cheap, just some safety electronics and a socket, the majority of cost is in digging for cable run. Newly built car parks would be very easy to put in mass EV "fast" charging.

Official charging speed classification is very confusing:
Slow = up to 3kW, but that is 16 amp (the charger is in the car)
Fast = up to 22kW, but that covers 32 amp from single phase or 16 amp 3 phase. In UK, vast majority is 7kW because single phase (the charger is in the car)
Rapid = 40kW and up, but that covers a huge variety, from 60 amp 3-phase AC in the Zoe (the only car) to 50kW DC quick charge to new 150kW Audi E-tron and to up coming 350kW Porsche. (charger is expensive and massive, part of infrastructure)

So I tend to say en-route quick charging and destination charging. The en-route charging will need to have further classification to distinguish between the vastly difference in speeds.

I see Ionity has finally got their first quick charging station online, in UK: https://www.speakev.com/threads/ionity-first-20-ccs-rapids-in-next-8-weeks.82137/page-28

 

[Byker28i]

70kW chargers will be able to charge 1,120 miles of range over 4 hour period a car is likely to be parked there. A bit excessive.

Ah no, I'm thinking of it as a quick drop in recharge point whilst you're on route. It's already got large car parking area mostly unused during the week. Stop off, 15-20 minute charge to get to the next point 200 miles away sort of thing.

Initially develop somewhere with huge carparks, on a well used route, to minimise cost of land purchase, plus it gives Silverstone another possible revenue stream, cafe, open the fan shop etc

 

[nilagin]

EV need 2 types of charging: en-route quick charging and destination "fast" charging. Silverstone car park, being a car park, needs the latter and the hardware are pretty cheap, just some safety electronics and a socket, the majority of cost is in digging for cable run. Newly built car parks would be very easy to put in mass EV "fast" charging.

Have you ever been to Silverstone before? The chargers can only be placed by the peripheral spaces. Start putting chargers in other spaces and you drastically start reducing the number of spaces. Not a problem at small meetings, but not good for the busier more popular meetings. Plus there is the problem of marshalling the EV cars to the chargers whilst ice Car's are trying to park. They could have one specific car park for EV charging but there will still be EV and ice cars trying to negotiate each other trying to get into respective car parks.

 

[ancient_mariner]

First, range. If we are going to set an arbitrary mileage, shouldn't we be basing it on how long we are willing to drive in one sitting?

This doesn't work for most people because a) range anxienty b) they don't want to stop long enough to take onboard meaningful charge and c) range anxiety. On a longer journey range is less of an issue for ICE because 2min and you're full again unless you're driving though the wilds at 12pm with an almost empty tank. But the thing is that my mini is a short-range vehicle, with only 420-450 miles in the tank, where as my peugeot would do 650 miles on a tankful (once had >700 miles out of it) so a real 350 miles is STILL going to leave anxiety, but it's probably manageable.

FWIW when I used to drive longer distances for holidays it would typically be through the night from Caen to Biarritz, generally without stopping if possible.

I agree about chargers - you need the uptake to justify the installation. EV isn't seen like motoring was originally, where there was a certain amount of pioneer spirit involved, and you also can't carry a couple of jerricans with fuel in.

 

[wyx087]

EV isn't seen like motoring was originally, where there was a certain amount of pioneer spirit involved,

It's a different kind of motoring, people need to think differently. Rather than "X miles to refuel" they need to think "X miles to destination" or "X miles to next break".

Of course, that change in thinking still relies on able to recharge at destination/break. Which will not work with current public charging infrastructure.

Have you ever been to Silverstone before? The chargers can only be placed by the peripheral spaces. Start putting chargers in other spaces and you drastically start reducing the number of spaces.

The thing is, if every (or vast majority of) spaces have chargers, no parking space is special, then it's fair to park any vehicle in any space. The idea is to not have special parking space by making all spaces equal.

Colindale Morrison's, the one we regularly visit, has loads of chargers along the side. EV charging space isn't enforced. At busiest time, parking can get ~80% full with people parking in charging spaces. But it still works, because there's so many chargers, I've never failed to find a charging space yet.

To answer your question, I had been to Silverstone. Although it was 6-8 years ago, I don't remember the layout of car park.

 

[bass_junkie83]

It's a different kind of motoring, people need to think differently. Rather than "X miles to refuel" they need to think "X miles to destination" or "X miles to next break".

While I largely agree with this, when I do stop at service stations I tend not to hang around for long.
I don't stop to refuel, that is done at the start and end of a journey where fuel is cheaper. Though that may change as I have just changed from a car with a ~600 mile range to one with <300 miles but I still can''t see me do many one way journeys that exceed 200 miles. Not sure if there is a similar difference in charging cost for EV's but accept either way it would be cheaper than fueling an ICE.

But when I do stop at services, it's normally just for a quick loo break, 5-10 mins max and we are all back in the car and on our way again. Any longer waiting around and you need to start filling your time with something, normally food. And at motorway services prices I bet that would soon negate any savings in running costs, especially if it is a full family trip.

The vast majority of my journeys are very short. I don't commute by car s typically <15 mile round trips, some up to 5 miles maybe once a fortnight. However very occasionally I do need to go further and keeping a second car just for those occasions is not feasible. So based on that my requirements to consider a change to EV would be

- 200 mile range
- destination charging easily available at public car parks
- estate body type
- enough performance to put a smile on my face (Focus ST as reference)
- up to £25k second hand
- not looking like something my granddad would buy when he has lost his glasses and been on the sherry.

I'm sure it will come, and have no aversions against EV in principle, but now it not the time for me.

 

[cosmicma]

iv'e been having a close look at the EV second hand market over the last 6 - 8 months or so i can't afford to buy new and i like to buy my vehicle outright as a second family car
so far iv'e looked at the Zoe which can work out expensive especially with battery lease, to buy one with the battery bought outright puts you into nissan leaf territory price wise which for me is a better car but the range of both cars isn't really good enough for my needs.
iv'e also had a close look at the BMW I3 REX which at a pinch would suite my driving needs using the range extender but there quite expensive and anything older than 2016 could be a very expensive mistake and i would prefer the bigger battery fitted 2016 and beyond but there are too many questions on how expensive the I3 could work out over a long ownership, extended warranty can cost anything up to £1,600 a year and if you believe everything you read about them it would be foolish not to have it, repair cost can be eye wateringly expensive
i'm now doing a bit of research on the Hyundai Kona EV which does look impressive with it's 300 mile range and 7 year warranty but it will be a couple of years before they become affordable to me.

for folks like me it's not just a simple case of getting out of ICE powered vehicles and jumping on the EV band wagon the main considerations are cost and range, the ones with the range are more than i can afford right now and the one i can afford havn't got the range
so for the next couple of years it looks like i'm hanging on to the civic which will get me to Newquay ( 350 miles ) on just over half a tank of fuel, it's a trip we do quite often during the summer months and is a big consideration when purchasing a car

i have to say the EV future is getting interesting

 

[Nod]

The vast majority of my journeys are very short. I don't commute by car s typically <15 mile round trips, some up to 5 miles maybe once a fortnight. However very occasionally I do need to go further and keeping a second car just for those occasions is not feasible.

Maybe an EV as your own car and hire something bigger for the "very occasional" longer journeys? Not sure if you have off road parking at home but that is far cheaper than most "pay as you fill" points (although our local car park chargers are free charge while you're paying to park and the points at Sainsbury's are free while you're shopping [or sitting on your laptop for up to 3 hours while your car's charging]).

 

[wyx087]

- 200 mile range
- destination charging easily available at public car parks
- estate body type
- enough performance to put a smile on my face (Focus ST as reference)
- up to £25k second hand
- not looking like something my granddad would buy when he has lost his glasses and been on the sherry.

I think these are very reasonable requirements. Alas, there's no choice on the market, I don't think we'll see much choice until 2025 on the second hand market

for folks like me it's not just a simple case of getting out of ICE powered vehicles and jumping on the EV band wagon the main considerations are cost and range, the ones with the range are more than i can afford right now and the one i can afford havn't got the range

This is the sticking point for many who want 1 car to do everything. It's either Leaf/Zoe or must pay new car price that is not likely to be delivered until 2020.

I've read similar stories on SpeakEV regarding i3 REX, I think the thread title is something like "for the love of god, do not run i3 REx out of warranty". Something about the engine seals breaking down due to not getting used.

Looking back, I did consider brand new i3 REx 30kWh (90Ah) as replacement to my Merc coupe back before starting a family. Back in late 2016, BMW were offering 0% finance, £330 per month PCP, in comparison I was spending on average close to £500 per month on the aging Merc, ~£190 pm of which were on fuel (drove a lot). For about the same monthly cost, I could have been driving a brand new car. Unfortunately wife veto'd it for lack of practicality.

 

[bass_junkie83]

Maybe an EV as your own car and hire something bigger for the "very occasional" longer journeys? Not sure if you have off road parking at home but that is far cheaper than most "pay as you fill" points (although our local car park chargers are free charge while you're paying to park and the points at Sainsbury's are free while you're shopping [or sitting on your laptop for up to 3 hours while your car's charging]).

These journeys are on company time, they are quite happy for me to do it in my own car, but if I didn't have something suitable they would not hire one, they would expect me to take the train, which is often slower. Cost for these is not an issue either, as I actually make money out of my travel expenses.

I have off road parking, so although installing a charge point is feasible the roof pitch and orientation is about as bad as you can get for installing solar panels to make the most out of it. I also don't intend to be here for more than five years.

I just don't think my situation is quite right to be an early adopter of EV, but give it time, maybe with the next (hopefully final) house move and things will come together at which point the body type, cost and styling issues will also be solved.

 

[Byker28i]

The vast majority of my journeys are very short. I don't commute by car s typically <15 mile round trips, some up to 5 miles maybe once a fortnight. However very occasionally I do need to go further and keeping a second car just for those occasions is not feasible. .

Could I suggest yopu could probably run an EV car as your main car, then rent a normal car for those occaisions you need something different?

 

[bass_junkie83]

Could I suggest yopu could probably run an EV car as your main car, then rent a normal car for those occaisions you need something different?

If it was also affordable, good looking, fun to drive and available as an estate then yes. But even then, who wants the faff of hiring cars and the associated advanced planning?

 

[broc]

Ok I was in Belgium this weekend (Classic Spa) and the hotel had 6 tesla superchargers. usual stuff, the model X self driving to the front of the hotel to pick up his driver, the model S's parked there, but yesterday there was a Model 3.

Got the owner to show me around. Standard wheels are very plastic wheel covers, door handles are tricky, upside down hand to open but you'll get used ot them.
Just a steering wheel out the dash, wrap around wood trim panel...and a huge tablet for every display, so Sat Nav looked amazing. Performance was quiet and rapid and there seemed a lot of space inside.
One of the guys at work says he gets his next week, he could only buy the extended range, with the options...

I have just come back from a trip to the Isle of Man, we stayed at a very new hotel...... not an EV charging point anywhere to be seen.....

 

[decigallen]

Out of 232k worldwide preorders for a Tesla 3, I would imagine the preorders from Europe would still be a substantial number and likely to have been a lot higher than 10k.

13,773 Tesla 3s were preordered between April 2016 and Jan 2019 in Europe according to Electrek.co. The bulk were from Germany and Norway.

 

[wave01]

If Ev was the way forward then this thread would not be here. What is needed is a viable way forward.

 

[broc]

Norway has made it very attractive for EV purchasers; no VAT (25%) on a new EV, use of bus-only lanes in cities, free car parking and charging to name a few.

What has our Government offered? Reduced financial incentives to buy, & the prospect of transferring the burden of fuel duty & VED onto a mileage charge that everyone has to pay? Not to mention crippling local government finance so there is little or no money for public investment into charging infrastructure.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

use of bus-only lanes in cities,

That's none too clever. If the argument is that the EVs are non-poluting then surely their drivers should be required to sit in the queues while the older ICE cars are allowed to move on quickly? That way you reduce the amount of polution by getting the ICEs to their destinations sooner.

 

[MatBin]

Probably silverstone could make extra money as a location of a massive charging point, not a bad spot centrally, not far from M1, M40 and already has the parking spaces. They'd have to deliver the power grid there to accomodate it, but that should go in as government investment because that won't be cheap putting in say 200 70Kw charging points.

Just wack in a massive diesel powered generator

 

[Nod]

Not sure how much space is available to Silverstone but Castle Coombe have an infield planted with solar panels.

 

[MatBin]

Colindale Morrison's, the one we regularly visit, has loads of chargers along the side. EV charging space isn't enforced. At busiest time, parking can get ~80% full with people parking in charging spaces. But it still works, because there's so many chargers, I've never failed to find a charging space yet.

But will it be like that when EV is taken by the masses?

 

[nilagin]

Not sure how much space is available to Silverstone but Castle Coombe have an infield planted with solar panels.

Just about all the infield is utilised by paddock areas and parking for race teams as well as alternative track layouts and a rally cross track.

 

[wyx087]

But will it be like that when EV is taken by the masses?

If you think about it: let's say 100 total space. 80 cars used to be mostly ICE, many of which park in charging spaces. Now 50 cars out of 80 are EV, some doesn't charge (not needed / no membership to access chargers / forgot cable / etc). The number of cars parking (and maybe charging) in a charging space will not increase proportionally to the amount of EV's. There will still likely be free charging spaces.

I've seen a few EV not parking in charger spaces at that car park, probably because of reasons above.

I think the saving grace in this instance is due to chargers are installed from midway to the back of car park. If chargers were all installed closest to entrance, those spaces are more desirable and get higher utilisation rate thus the spaces are less likely to be free unless policed. Considering those who actually DO need a charge are likely to spend more time than those who are just popping in, so it makes more sense to install chargers at the back of car park.



I drove my Skoda diesel to my parents 150 miles away last weekend. It took 3 hours of driving both ways. It's not healthy for a baby to be crammed in the car seat for so long. 2 hours max and they need to be taken out for a stretch. Both ways, we stopped once and each time stopped 15-20min. If we had an EV capable of 100 miles (eg. the 2017 Ioniq 30kWh), it would have been more than enough for the journey.

If only the charging network on trunk roads is as reliable as the EV's themselves.......
Namely Ecotricity Electric Highway, whose CCS charger reliability is notorious. They used to be Nissan funded, CCS heads were added at a later date to existing chargers. But unfortunately Moto have renewed their exclusivity contract at service area.

I think the point I'm getting at is that large battery is not needed in most cases, ubiquitous and reliable charging network is more important.

 

[MatBin]

I think the saving grace in this instance is due to chargers installed from midway to the back of car park. If chargers were all installed closest to entrance, those spaces are more desirable and get higher utilisation rate thus the spaces are less likely to be free unless policed. Considering those who actually DO need a charge are likely to spend more time than those who are just popping in, so it makes more sense to install chargers at the back of car park.

I drove my Skoda diesel to my parents 150 miles away last weekend. It took 3 hours of driving both ways. It's not healthy for a baby to be crammed in the car seat for so long. 2 hours max and they need to be taken out for a stretch. Both ways, we stopped once and each time stopped 15-20min. If we had an EV capable of 100 miles (eg. the 2017 Ioniq 30kWh), it would have been more than enough for the journey.

I think the point I'm getting at is that large battery is not needed in most cases, ubiquitous and reliable charging network is more important.

A couple of good points there
a) From a marketing point of view supermarket are going to love the fact people aren't just popping in and out in 10/15mins, although few of us do would be my guess, but with ICE you do have that option, not so much the case if you have decided to shop and charge the EV. Perhaps also they could make the M&C spots EV friendly as well as I am sure this is where a fair portion of EV's will be used.
b) Good point re the baby, only slight thing is that they don't stay babies for long, so needing to stop for 40mins plus is a transient phase, none the less a good point and I guess by the time they are old enough to not need the "stretch" most parents will be so used to doing a mid-length stop for a splash and charge it will be factored into the drive.

 

[Byker28i]

Not sure how much space is available to Silverstone but Castle Coombe have an infield planted with solar panels.

Luckily off the racing line as I've been off into the infield when it was a field of corn

 

[Byker28i]

Just about all the infield is utilised by paddock areas and parking for race teams as well as alternative track layouts and a rally cross track.

Don't forget Helicopter pads, karting circuit...

 

[Byker28i]

I drove my Skoda diesel to my parents 150 miles away last weekend. It took 3 hours of driving both ways. It's not healthy for a baby to be crammed in the car seat for so long. 2 hours max and they need to be taken out for a stretch. Both ways, we stopped once and each time stopped 15-20min. If we had an EV capable of 100 miles (eg. the 2017 Ioniq 30kWh), it would have been more than enough for the journey.

Pnly 3 hours? If the baby is asleep and quiet you keep going it's more likely the driver/passenger needs a toilet break.