Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

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I'd rather see coin operated cabled chargers (with a card pay option) than induction pads that very few cars can use without a £1000 modification.


coin operation? which century are you from.
card only for sure, even our local train station now has a ticket machine which is card only for payment.
 
coin operation? which century are you from.
card only for sure, even our local train station now has a ticket machine which is card only for payment.
Cards can fail so coin operation should always be there as an option. What planet are you from?
 
Cards can fail so coin operation should always be there as an option. What planet are you from?

errrr, no machines that take coins get broken into and attract thieves they also require regular emptying putting people at risk.
mind you seeing as you work for Ford i can appreciate your dinosaur mentality.
 
errrr, no machines that take coins get broken into and attract thieves they also require regular emptying putting people at risk.
mind you seeing as you work for Ford i can appreciate your dinosaur mentality.

A very rare occurrence for coin machines to be broken into, theives are more likely to go for an easy target like a cash dispenser machine whether nick the machine or clone cards.
You really do need to catch up with the times.
As you know sweet fa about cars as you prove so often your jibe about me working for Ford and dinosaur mentality has just as little impact.
View: https://youtu.be/P5iqYuFmzqg
 
Not so much a case of the number of chargers in the current infrastructure that is a problem, but the number actually working and the number not communicating making it appear they aren't working.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/unreliable-charging-infrastructure-prevents-ev-rollout
What I've been saying for a long time, outside of Tesla, your EV is pretty much tethered to your driveway due to the shockingly bad public charging infrastructure. Current EV en-route charging is fragmented, unreliable and not numerous enough.

Ionity is a network funded by many big manufacturers, but so far, they have only 1 operational site in UK, ~3 others being built. The one being built in MK Coachway station is only 4 stalls, whereas vast majority of Tesla supercharger locations are now at least 6 stalls.



Currently, when comms fail, charge points default to free-vend. As consumer, I don't see the problem with that ;)
 
What I've been saying for a long time, outside of Tesla, your EV is pretty much tethered to your driveway due to the shockingly bad public charging infrastructure. Current EV en-route charging is fragmented, unreliable and not numerous enough.

Ionity is a network funded by many big manufacturers, but so far, they have only 1 operational site in UK, ~3 others being built. The one being built in MK Coachway station is only 4 stalls, whereas vast majority of Tesla supercharger locations are now at least 6 stalls.



Currently, when comms fail, charge points default to free-vend. As consumer, I don't see the problem with that ;)

So are you saying Tesla charge points are the only ones that don't break down? I find that hard to believe.

So if a charger isn't communicating and the app or charger control centre registers the charger as broken, out of service, surely that is a problem to the driver trying to find their nearest charge point or planning their journey.
Not exactly ideal turning up hoping it was just a comms failure and you could get a free vend to arrive and find it truly is out of service.
 
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So are you saying Tesla charge points are the only ones that don't break down? I find that hard to believe.
...quite right and as I mentioned above:

Panasonic TZ70 8GB H05 P1030302.JPG

:coat::coat::coat:
 
So are you saying Tesla charge points are the only ones that don't break down? I find that hard to believe.
Tesla have built enough what seems like spare capacity at each location and charge fast enough to make that not a problem. Plus, they have reliable real-time reporting of charger availability in their cars.

Whereas with the number of EV's on the road, Ionity seems to have built enough capacity for today's number at each location. All other en-route chargers are slower 50kW, you'd have to wait over 1 hour for "rapid" charging if you drive 60kWh or bigger battery cars. Vast majority of en-route chargers only have 1 or 2 at each location, so if one breaks down and someone else charging, good luck! That's the sorry state of public en-route charging today.

...quite right and as I mentioned above:
View attachment 249590

:coat::coat::coat:
Just like denying climate change, posting a photo of closely cropped 2 temporarily unavailable chargers does not show anything of value. Can you tell us more than this closely cropped image? Perhaps they were being built? Perhaps there are 10 other available stations in the next bays?

So if a charger isn't communicating and the app or charger control centre registers the charger as broken, out of service, surely that is a problem to the driver trying to find their nearest charge point or planning their journey.
Not exactly ideal turning up hoping it was just a comms failure and you could get a free vend to arrive and find it truly is out of service.
No, it's not ideal. It shouldn't happen to begin with. The real-time status of all chargers should be available in one app and/or in the cars, like in a well known EV and their chargers.
Currently, you rely on crowd reported charger status in an app for UK, different apps elsewhere and more apps for each charger network. It's fragmented as I've said.
 
Perhaps there are 10 other available stations in the next bays?
Perhaps you might consider finding a sense of humour recharge point? :wave:
 
So are you saying Tesla charge points are the only ones that don't break down? .....

Dear god, you really do try very hard to twist a post to make an argument. That was never said or even implied. Either you are trolling or fail in the most basic of comprehension.
 
In a review, depreciation is said to be very low for Model 3:
Our experts expect that the Standard Range model will retain just over 66 per cent of its value after three years and 36,000 miles, with the Performance model expected to hold on to an impressive 72.8 per cent of its value over the same period.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/model-3/mpg

Meanwhile, ICE cars:
Comparable family car class: "The Focus retain between 32 and 37 per cent of its value after three years or 36,000 miles"
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/focus/mpg
Comparable "compact exec" class car: "The launch range of 320d and 330i models retain around 42-44 per cent of their value after three years."
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/3-series/mpg


For another EV from traditional manufacturer, they have finally caught up with idea that EV doesn't require manually start or shutdown, as I have been saying many pages ago:
VW has learned from Tesla for the ID.3’s start procedure, so you don’t turn it on or off. You just unlock it, climb in, select ‘D’ on the gear toggle and drive off. And when you get to your destination, press ‘P’ for the parking brake, climb out, lock it and you’re done.
Also, EV chassis developed from ground up allows a number of benefits over traditional front ICE FWD setup:
The Golf has never been a small car inside, but the ID.3 allows you to sit like you’re in a Skoda Superb; rear-seat occupants have space to cross their legs.
On the road, a few things stand out. The first is the turning circle, which feels small for a family-size hatchback; this has been made possible, we suspect, by the fact that the ID.3 is rear-wheel drive. The body control and agility are strong points, too, helped no doubt by a lower centre of gravity.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/e-golf/107409/volkswagen-id3-vs-volkswagen-e-golf

But like most traditional car journalist, they failed to mention the charging speed upgrade in the ID3 in a comparison article between e-Golf and ID3. Allowing you to recharge faster at the single Ionity charging location. :ROFLMAO:
 
Dear god, you really do try very hard to twist a post to make an argument. That was never said or even implied. Either you are trolling or fail in the most basic of comprehension.
Really? Come on then, let's hear your interpretation of what he wrote.
What I've been saying for a long time, outside of Tesla, your EV is pretty much tethered to your driveway due to the shockingly bad public charging infrastructure. Current EV en-route charging is fragmented, unreliable and not numerous enough.
 
In a review, depreciation is said to be very low for Model 3:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/model-3/mpg

Meanwhile, ICE cars:
Comparable family car class: "The Focus retain between 32 and 37 per cent of its value after three years or 36,000 miles"
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/focus/mpg
As there are no 3yr old Model 3's perhaps you would like to change that to predicted.
The prediction also mentions the expected depreciation on the Performance Model 3, where is your link to the depreciation figures for the Focus performance Model?
I can help you out of you like. Currently a 3yr old Focus RS are also retaining 70 -75% of their original cost, that is real prices, not a prediction. If the Mk3 RS follows the same depreciation pattern as the Mk2 RS then the depreciation after 8yrs could be as low as 15%. If you bought a Mk2 RS500 you won't have suffered any depreciation, you will have made yourself around £15k in 8yrs, sell it privately and that could rise to £20k or more. If you bought Mk3 Red Performance Edition RS, there is a chance that you may even only lose 15% in 3yrs, 1yr old cars are selling for more than list price putting trade in prices at just below purchase price. If you bought a Mk3 Heritage Performance RS, also a year old, you can currently trade it in at £20k above the purchase price.
Still find the Tesla depreciation figures impressive?
 
As there are no 3yr old Model 3's perhaps you would like to change that to predicted.
The prediction also mentions the expected depreciation on the Performance Model 3, where is your link to the depreciation figures for the Focus performance Model?
Still find the Tesla depreciation figures impressive?
I only quoted the articles. In the article, depreciation is said to be very low for Model 3. The same Focus article did not say depreciation for its performance model, hence wasn't quoted.

The depreciate across the whole range of Model 3 is said to be no less than 66%. I find that very impressive because most cars depreciate ~50% over same period. So this seems to goes against what you have been saying, after selling, the depreciation cost to the owner is not more expensive on this EV.

Focusing on one variant of the car, nevermind special editions, doesn't really add weight to your argument. It's like posting 1 picture of the horizon and proceed to say the earth if flat ;)
 
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I only quoted the articles. In the article, depreciation is said to be very low for Model 3. The same Focus article did not say depreciation for its performance model, hence wasn't quoted.

The depreciate across the whole range of Model 3 is said to be no less than 66%. I find that very impressive because most cars depreciate ~50% over same period. So this seems to goes against what you have been saying, after selling, the depreciation cost to the owner is not more expensive on this EV.

Focusing on one variant of the car, nevermind special editions, doesn't really add weight to your argument. It's like posting 1 picture of the horizon and proceed to say the earth if flat ;)
Again it is only predicted depreciation on the Tesla there are no 3yr old samples to confirm. Is that depreciation based on the Tesla 3 full list price or after the government subsidy. Using the full list price the depreciation on a base model 3 is £14400. The depreciation on a Focus Vignale which is the top of the range spec would be £12750. A lower spec Focus such as the ST Line would lose around £11k.

Of course we could use take off the government EV subsidy as that is the price a customer would be paying will be a loss of £13226. But then it would only be fair to use the price a customer would pay for a Focus Vignale and from the first deal that comes up on google, that gives a depreciation of £10251.

Is that better for you? Yet again you prove maths isn't your strong point, almost as bad as your s***e analogies.
 
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As I previously said, EV and batteries are uniquely capable of being part of the whole energy solution:
https://electrek.co/2019/07/11/electric-cars-uk-2050-storage/
A new report envisions a number of energy scenarios for the UK as it aims for net zero emissions by 2050, and one future path involves using 35 million electric cars to store a large amount of renewable energy.

In a scenario where the UK has widely accepted electric vehicles, with 35 million total electric cars on Britain’s roads, National Grid estimates 75% of these EVs can be using smart charging systems with vehicle-to-grid (V2G) technology.

These EVs will store renewable electricity — with National Grid estimating the millions of cars will be capable of storing as much as 20% of the UK’s total solar generation — and deliver it back to the grid when needed.



Of course we could use take off the government EV subsidy as that is the price a customer would be paying will be a loss of £13226. But then it would only be fair to use the price a customer would pay for a Focus Vignale and from the first deal that comes up on google, that gives a depreciation of £10251.

Is that better for you? Yet again you prove maths isn't your strong point, almost as bad as your s***e analogies.
Why are all the examples you give are cherry picked versions rather than the standard version of the said car?
Also, no source on any of your figures, how can anyone trust your numbers?

*sigh* clearly you are struggling to construct a valid argument, so have fallen back to insults.
No calculation had been done in my last couple of posts, so even your insult doesn't make sense! :facepalm:
 
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As I previously said, EV and batteries are uniquely capable of being part of the whole energy solution:
https://electrek.co/2019/07/11/electric-cars-uk-2050-storage/





Why are all the examples you give are cherry picked versions rather than the standard version of the said car?
Also, no source on any of your figures, how can anyone trust your numbers?

*sigh* clearly you are struggling to construct a valid argument, so have fallen back to insults.
No calculation had been done in my last couple of posts, so even your insult doesn't make sense! :facepalm:
Still trying to fathom why anyone would want to use their EV to store electricity and then put it back into the grid, you then would have to recharge your ev anyway. Perhaps you would like to enlighten us. An electric pick up truck is currently in development and it's electricity can be used to power a remote building site where there is no electricity supply, that makes sense.

How is that cherry picking? You moan because I only gave figures for the RS and now I have given figures for other Focus models you still moan.

Sorry you are correct, you didn't supply any calculations. I apologise for the accusation. But perhaps you should have done your own calculations and you would have seen 34% depreciation on a Tesla 3 still works out more than 50% on a Ford Focus.
So it is still you struggling to make a valid argument, not me.
Shall we also like to include the extra £180 per year in VED Tesla owners would have to initially pay. That's quite a lot of fossil fuel you can buy with the money saved.
 
I would say to you two just put each other on ignore , would pretty much kill the thread though
Still trying to fathom why anyone would want to use their EV to store electricity and then put it back into the grid, you then would have to recharge your ev anyway. Perhaps you would like to enlighten us. An electric pick up truck is currently in development and it's electricity can be used to power a remote building site where there is no electricity supply, that makes sense.
.

On an individual basis you probably don't.

The problem is a lot bigger than just you or me though. There are serious grid infrastructure issues, generation capacity issues and as a result mass storage becomes attractive. Even now these add about 15-20% to the cost of your electricity bill.

Using car batteries as one means of achieving storage at times of no demand, and then releasing it when there is demand is one potential solution. It's by no means thoroughly thought through yet and has many potential issues but it is an option.
 
The government recognises the current shamble that is public charging. They are now asking all rapid or quicker charger to have contactless payment options.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/all-new-rapid-chargepoints-should-offer-card-payment-by-2020
the government has signalled it expects industry to develop a roaming solution across the charging network, allowing electric vehicle drivers to use any public chargepoint through a single payment method without needing multiple smartphone apps or membership cards.

1 obstacle down, 2 to go for reliable public charging that allows easy long distance drives in EV:
Current EV en-route charging is fragmented, unreliable and not numerous enough.

Meanwhile, Tesla is said to be the best road trip car.
https://electrek.co/2019/07/09/tesl...n-autopilot-and-0-hours-waiting-for-charging/

In other news, this article writes why Ford is letting us down by their lack EV's
https://jalopnik.com/fords-letting-us-down-on-electric-cars-1836324309
Back in 2017 Ford announced that it would launch a new all-electric SUV with “at least 300 miles of range,” and electrified versions of the F-150, Mustang, and Transit Connect. Not only did the company promise these were coming, but it even put a date on it. “Before 2020” Ford said. Instead, more delays, and job cuts.

By kicking this Volkswagen deal out another four years, Ford is committing to nothing. Not resources, not tech, not dealer showroom space.



How is that cherry picking? You moan because I only gave figures for the RS and now I have given figures for other Focus models you still moan.
You still haven't provided ANY source to the numbers you've came up with.........
This is not cherry picking. If you have issue with their figures, take it up with the website authors.
"The Focus retain between 32 and 37 per cent of its value after three years or 36,000 miles"
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/focus/mpg
 
Good Lads (and ladies) !!!
I think there are many hundreds of people directly affected by this who may take a different view.
 
I think there are many hundreds of people directly affected by this who may take a different view.


Yes but through action comes change, all we have at the moment is dogma and the same, our streets stick of diesel, respiratory problems are on the rise.
 
Yes but through action comes change.
Or not. My guess is they're annoying 10 people (possibly more) for every person who agrees with them. That is not the generally accepted way to win hearts and minds.
 
More action today to highlights the governments pathetic attitude to climate change

Good Lads (and ladies) !!!

Extinction Rebellion protesters block roads in UK cities

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48987193

If people are dieting in India from climate chaos. Why don't they just f*** off to India and protest.

I assume you are scrapping your dirty petrol car and replacing it with an EV. You will also be no longer flying to your holiday home in Greece and will be sailing by yacht instead.
 
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In other news, this article writes why Ford is letting us down by their lack EV's
https://jalopnik.com/fords-letting-us-down-on-electric-cars-1836324309

You still haven't provided ANY source to the numbers you've came up with.........
This is not cherry picking. If you have issue with their figures, take it up with the website authors.

Ford haven't announced all their EV plans. They announce cars as and when they are ready to.
Their EV promise has always been a Mustang inspired electric SUV in 2020 and 16 Ev's by 2022.

The figures I have quoted is from being aware of trade in values of cars. But I doubt you would find many 3yr old Ford Focus cars with 36000 miles as that is around 6-8k or more miles above average use.
 
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If people are dieting in India from climate chaos. Why don't they just f*** off to India and protest.

I assume you are scrapping your dirty petrol car and replacing it with an EV. You will also be no longer flying to your holiday home in Greece and will be sailing by yacht instead.


Should have edited the "dieting" while you were doing the edit! ;)

I would guess that any boat he would use would be plastic based and would probably have a diesel auxiliary engine fitted - a petrol would be horrendously thirsty.
 
More action today to highlights the governments pathetic attitude to climate change

Good Lads (and ladies) !!!

Extinction Rebellion protesters block roads in UK cities

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48987193
I agree - pathetic attitude by our politicians - believing this massive hoax!
The prpoganda channel have a lot to answer for as well.
Real shame our children are being taught lies.
 
Should have edited the "dieting" while you were doing the edit! ;)

.
I hadn't noticed that. Bloody predictive text. ( I wrote bloody and it even predicted "predictive text". It even knows when it's been naughty. :)
 
I would guess that any boat he would use would be plastic based and would probably have a diesel auxiliary engine fitted - a petrol would be horrendously thirsty.
I was going to suggest he used a rowing boat. ;)
 
How are Ford coming along with that perpetual motion engine that was previously discussed on here?
 
The long wait for Vehicle to X (grid/home/another car) technology to become standardised (it's currently not in European standard CCS charging method, even though Chademo in my Leaf already supports this). Where any other EV driver can help an out-of-charge car, the tech will also allow powering homes through peak demand (eg. 5-8pm) and only ever pay lowest electricity tariff (eg. https://octopus.energy/agile/).

A large number of distributed Vehicle to Grid can also function like this, allowing you to earn money while parked. This offer is over £2000 off on purchase of home battery pack for 10 years grid services. https://www.edfenergy.com/for-home/battery-storage

EV and its battery gives you many many options. Energy are no longer trapped in fuel tanks.

Until then, Electric "jerry can" for breakdown services?
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...-startup-aims-to-be-as-easy-as-pizza-delivery
 
I agree - pathetic attitude by our politicians - believing this massive hoax!
The prpoganda channel have a lot to answer for as well.
Real shame our children are being taught lies.
Are you trolling? Don't do it, just don't. This threads bad enough without you introducing another argument with a conspiracy theory sound bite. :mad: If you want to start a "Climate change is a huge lie" thread feel free to do so, but not in here. And make sure you start with some cohesive, fact based arguments which you're prepared and able to back up.
 
Anyone seen the latest news that BIK is being virtually zeroed for EV for the next few years, that should be a boost to their sales.
 
Anyone seen the latest news that BIK is being virtually zeroed for EV for the next few years, that should be a boost to their sales.

Also

Hybrid cars which can travel 130-miles of electric range and CO2 emissions of between 1-50g/km or below will also be exempt.
 
Something has always struck me... Why do designers not come up with a true "plug in" battery system?

So, My Mini may require 2 batteries, a 3 or 5 series may require 3, but all the batteries are the same. I could buy a 3rd battery and have it charged ready to plug in, when I change my car I keep my spare etc. A modular battery system just seems to make sense to me.
 
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