- Messages
- 15,804
- Name
- Neil
- Edit My Images
- Yes
You didn't ask that at all.....but that doesn't answer the question I asked you! What EV built by Ford should I buy and why is it better than a Tesla?
You didn't ask that at all.....but that doesn't answer the question I asked you! What EV built by Ford should I buy and why is it better than a Tesla?
Then you would be wrong. I had a 98 Mondeo 2.0 that I bought as a run around. 149k miles on the clock and averaged 40mpg which was above the manufacturer quoted figure. Several years later it had reached 269k miles and still averaged 40mpg.I would suspect that an ICE car doesn't do the same mpg after 131,000 miles?
It has nothing to do with mileage covered. The software upgrade is shortening the range. Software upgrades are supposed to improve the car not make it worse. I could be barking up the wrong tree, but is it any coincidence that a software upgrade that reduces the vehicles range appears to have come about after the Tesla battery fire in China, several months ago.After some research this indicates that when new the range was approx 260 miles on a 100% charge and is now 220 miles after 130,000 miles - that is hardly a devestating drop after a software upgrade!
This all shows you are clearly envious of another manufacturer who is well ahead of the game than the company who employs you.
2005 or 2017? If the former, you really need the latter, if the latter then you need a GT11.P.S. I am a big Ford fan and own a Ford GT; I also own a Superformance GT40 recreation with a Roush 427 engine.
Ok - tomorrow I'm going to buy an EV - tell me which Ford I should buy and why is it superior to a Tesla?
....but that doesn't answer the question I asked you! What EV built by Ford should I buy and why is it better than a Tesla?
You didn't ask that at all.
P.S. I am a big Ford fan and own a Ford GT; I also own a Superformance GT40 recreation with a Roush 427 engine.
I am fully aware of what he was asking and what he was aiming at. Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.@nilagin - again you are being a pedant. You know exactly the question @DK602 is asking but rather than be honest and say that Ford has a non existent EV line up (a fundamental flaw in todays world) you choose to be a complete idiot and be a childish pedant yet again.
It's sad to say that you are very knowledgeable when it comes to most things to do with cars but when you act like this your nothing short of an imbecile.
You didn't ask that at all.
I am fully aware of what he was asking and what he was aiming at. Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.
Actually they do have an EV in their line up. it just isn't available in this country. With EV still forming a small part of new car sales, it is hardly a fundamental flaw.
I did wonder about your avatar.
Not sure how "Ford" the Lola GT40 can really be called...
I'm also lucky enough to have a Kirkham 289 FIA with a Ford 302 drivetrain.
So because you feel I am making a fool of myself, you have decided to really make a fool of yourself, how kind.Initially you stated I didn't ask the question at all but now you seem to accept I did ask it but it was a stupid question:
Neil - you need to realise you are making a fool of yourself by 'bashing Tesla' just because you are an employee of the Blue Oval.
EV is new technology - anyone in their right mind knows current batteries do not last forever and can only be cycled so many times - to say the range of an electric vehicle has been reduced from 250 miles to 220 miles after a 130000 miles is a con is just showing that they hate a brand for whatever reason - most would expect a drop in mileage over the years when purchasing an EV.
Your Ford Modeo - the diesels were absolutely appalling! They had problems with the injector programming etc; why are you not highlighting that?
I suggest you let go of your Tesla hatred (on here at least) as it isn't showing you in a good light TBH.
Everything - yes everything in your post is just wrong! Sorry but you really are looking silly. Go and learn about aerodynamics - you are saying some very silly things in your posts!So because you feel I am making a fool of myself, you have decided to really make a fool of yourself, how kind.
It has been mentioned many times in this thread, EV isn't new it predates ICE.
Of course the battery will deteriorate, any rechargeable battery will. But you are choosing to ignore the fact that a lot of disgruntled owners have suddenly lost range after an software update. It is nothing to do with how many miles they have done, or how many times the battery has been recharged. Why are you choosing to ignore that?
Why haven't i mentioned Mondeo diesel programming injector problems? Could it be because I never had any problems in the 8 yrs I owned my 98 2.0 Mondeo. Why didn't I encounter any problems? Could it be because it didn't have any diesel injectors to programme. Why didn't it have any diesel injectors? Perhaps it is because it wasn't a diesel engine. Was the programming problem something to do with not being able to fit the diesel injectors in the first place? There is no such thing as a 98 2.0 diesel Mondeo, they were all 1.8. Incidentally, I had 97 and a 99 1.8 TD Mondeos and no problem with injectors. In fact the injectors didn't require programming.
Let's return to our previous discussion about car aerodynamics. You stated that a vacuum is created behind the car and because it drags the car backwards and is a major contribution in the drag of a vehicle. The vacuum in this instance is just a drop in air pressure, the car has created a hole as the air passes over, under and around the car. It does not create a negative air pressure which indeed would try to pull a car backwards. The drag is the air's ability to move over the layer of air that remains static on the vehicle.
Pointing out Tesla's many flaws isn't a hatred, it is just pointing out the flaws. If someone wants to pay out s*** loads of money on a flawed car, that is up to them. There are plenty of threads on here of people wanting to buy a new car and they all ask if anyone knows if a certain model car they are interested in has any pitfalls. In this thread there are members that feel Tesla are the best thing since sliced bread. Sure, they are impressive for their acceleration but it is a lot of money to spend on more or less just one thing when so many flaws let it down.
No everything is indeed correct.Everything - yes everything in your post is just wrong! Sorry but you really are looking silly. Go and learn about aerodynamics - you are saying some very silly things in your posts!
There is no point trying to adjust your answers!No everything is indeed correct.
First electric car was in 1832, although they never became practical until late 1870's. First internal combustion engine powered cars went into production in 1886.
Ford most certainly never made a 2.0 diesel Mondeo in 1998. The only diesel engine in 98 Mondeos was an 1.8 and didn't have direct injection and no requirement for the injectors to be programmed.
First 2.0 diesel Mondeo was in 2000 which was the TDDI and that didn't have programmable injectors neither. The 2.0 TDCi came along in 2002 which did have programmable injectors. The only problems with programming that I am aware of were from replacement injectors which are generally refurbished units and may not have been calibrated properly.
I had a 2.2 TDCi basically same engine but different injectors in terms of fuelling capability. The injectors, which also have to be programmed, were still just fine at 101k miles when I traded the car in and almost 60k of that mileage the car had been modified and remarked to 196bhp from its standard 155bhp.
As a car passes through air it only causes a difference in the air pressure at the rear of the car. This difference in air pressure due to the speed of the air passing over the car body and under the car itself and is referred to as vacuum. But it in no way creates negative air pressure. If there was indeed a vacuum (negative air pressure) at the rear of the car, it would pull the smoke trail down into that void but it doesn't. If the drop in air pressure can't pull a weightless smoke trail down into the vacuum, it sure as he'll isn't going to have any kind of pull on a vehicle.
Perhaps you ought to research the laws of physics.
I haven't changed anything at all. You said that a vacuum is created at the rear of the car effectively trying to drag (suck) the car backwards. The only way that can happen is if the air pressure is negative causing suction. But no negative air pressure is created behind the car, the air pressure is simply less than that passing under and over a car. The fact it is still called a vacuum is what is confusing you.There is no point trying to adjust your answers!
Re drag - in your earlier post you said skin friction drag was the biggest cause of drag on a vehicle - now you're changing this to pressure drag which is what I have said all along as being the biggest cause of drag.
So - now you have said this tell me how this pushes the vehicle along as you originally (rather foolishly) stated?
So what did you buy? Dealers will be shutting soon if you haven't bought one yet.Ok - tomorrow I'm going to buy an EV - tell me which Ford I should buy and why is it superior to a Tesla?
How many times must I say this.It has been mentioned many times in this thread, EV isn't new it predates ICE.
But you haven't answered DK's question. Which Ford should he buy that is superior to Tesla?So what did you buy? Dealers will be shutting soon if you haven't bought one yet.
Petrol and diesels does not magically appear in the petrol station, it has to be mined, transported, refined, distributed.Electricity does not magically appear in the environment it has to be generated
I am sure Tesla will be so pleased you over looked (2nd time this week) the 2008 Roadster. Which had a range of 200 miles.How many times must I say this.
Today's pure EV capable of long distance driving only really started in 2011 with the original Nissan Leaf + Chademo rapid charging, and 2012 with Tesla Model S + Supercharging. Li-on is the battery technology enabling this. Continue to pretend 1800's car, which lack the two important ingredient, to be the starting point of today's EV is beyond foolish.
But you haven't answered DK's question. Which Ford should he buy that is superior to Tesla?
Ford GT doesn't have 7 seats. Can't hold as much stuff as Model S. It's also rather expensive.
For a car claiming to be a supercar, it's rather slow to 60mph.
Ford GT 0-60 3s: https://www.topspeed.com/cars/ford/2019-ford-gt-heritage-edition-ar182322.html
Tesla Model S P100D 2.3s: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-s/2017/2017-tesla-model-s-p100d-first-test-review
Also, does Ford GT owners get range anxiety with less than 300 miles of range?
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/ford-gt-estimated-300-mile-range/
While Tesla's Model S P100D has 381 miles of range and can recharge anywhere there is electricity.
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/tesla/model-s
Can someone put out a forum-wide alert when the p1551ng contest is over?
Thanks.
I pressume you mean me?We all know he was asking which Ford EV he could go into the dealers today and buy and how it would be superior to a Tesla. He knows full well that no Ford Ev's are currently on sale in the UK, he, like yourself was trying to be a smart arse.
Clean & green? No
see the diesel generator!
View attachment 252180
Electricity does not magically appear in the environment it has to be generated
Surely that depends on the overall polution of the competing systems? The overall pollution of the electric vehicle starts with the construction of the power station and the extraction of the fuel. The overall pollution of the internal combustion vehicle starts with the construction of the fuel refinery and (again) the extraction of the fuel. In both cases the chain then includes the construction of the factories to make the components of each vehicle, the pollution caused by the extraction and refining of the materials and so on up to the delivery of the fuel to the vehicle and its use. It's far more complicated than most people seem to be aware and I'm not sure anyone has ever worked it out for an item as complicated as a car.even if energy is generated by burning gas or coal in a power station, it is much more efficient than an ICE. So still greener.
I pressume you mean me?
Why are you criticising Tesla so much? So what if the brought out a software upgrade that improved other areas of the vehicle but shortened the range slightly; I'd be happy they were addressing other issues TBH.
No matter which car manufacturer you look at you can 'pull them apart' - i asked before - 'what is your beef with Tesla?'
P.S. Your your fluid dynamics knowledge is woeful but I'm sure people are bored of that.
So it's my knowledge of fluid dynamics that is woeful is it.
A vacuum just means something is empty, devoid of matter, a car punches a hole in the air as it passes through it.
It does not create negative air pressure behind the vehicle, causing suction which would try to pull or hold it back.
http://www.gcdataconcepts.com/carairflow.html
Notice the lack of negative air pressure recorded by the barometer fixed to the back of this car.
Flow detachment applies only to the "rear vacuum" portion of the drag equation, and it is really about giving the air molecules time to follow the contours of a car's bodywork, and to fill the hole left by the vehicle, it's tires, it's suspension and protrusions (ie. mirrors, roll bars). If you have witnessed the Le Mans race cars, you will have seen how the tails of these cars tend to extend well back of the rear wheels, and narrow when viewed from the side or top. This extra bodywork allows the air molecules to converge back into the vacuum smoothly along the body into the hole left by the car's cockpit, and front area, instead of having to suddenly fill a large empty space.
The reason keeping flow attachment is so important is that the force created by the vacuum far exceeds that created by frontal pressure, and this can be attributed to the Turbulence created by the detachment
A smoke trail can not be weightless - it contains molecules; and you have answered your earlier question regarding the rear of cars being covered in exhaust waste - it isn't caused by any 'pushing' as you stated earlier; it is caused by the turbulent air at the rear of the vehicle.If the drop in air pressure can't pull a weightless smoke trail down into the vacuum,
While this may not be a green example (who knows, without knowing the efficiency of the generator attached), even if energy is generated by burning gas or coal in a power station, it is much more efficient than an ICE. So still greener.
A vacuum pump produces negative air pressure. The vacuum pumps operating turbo vac controlled wastegates on 1.0 Ecoboost engines produce a negative air pressure of around -90kPa. How do I know? I see the figures 8hrs a day, 5 days a weekCan you tell me a situation when you get negative air pressure?
A vacuum pump produces negative air pressure. The vacuum pumps operating turbo vac controlled wastegates on 1.0 Ecoboost engines produce a negative air pressure of around -90kPa. How do I know? I see the figures 8hrs a day, 5 days a week
The push on the back of the car is minimal and created byspecific turbulence that not all cars can create. When air pressure decreases, the car can pass through the air easier as the initial drag is reduced. Again look at the barometric pressure on various parts of the car on my link. The areas with the most wind resistance, is what causes the drag which is the front of the car, the air pressure drops on the roof etc. because they are flatter and cause less wind resistance. Air like a liquid will find the simplest and shortest route. The reason the air separates from the car body is because the car has already moved through that portion of air, it has punched a hole in it. In a wnd tunnel that hole is caused by the fan blowing at such a force it can carry the smoke trails past the car at a slower air speed from the fans the smoke trail will follow the shape of the car and fall into the void sooner as the change in air pressure is less.
Now are you going to finally answer my questions or are you going to continue to ignore them because I am not completely wrong, but the exact opposite.
The biggest problem i see with electric vehicles is not the vehicles themselves but the infrastructure to support them?
I remember the National Grid used to suffer at 5.30pm when everyone got home from work and put the kettle on/started making tea - how will it cope when we are all plugging our cars in for charging?
Likewise the UK has numerous terraced housing/on road parking - how are people going to charge their vehicles?
Yep, we're the only house on our little road that has a drive.
There are definite issues, range anxiety would be solved by better on the go infrastructure as well as increased battery life. And there won't be a really big change until there's a good second hard market for EV too.
Andy,
looking at the Tesla 3 (something I've not done before this thread) I think the cars are pretty much there - its everything else lagging behind - would you agree?
But you were using it to say my 98 Mondeo had these problems and when I told you there was no 2.0 diesel Mondeo in 98, you told me I was completely wrong.@nilagin - regarding the faults with the Ford Mondeo - it was used an example to show your 'slating' of Tesla was unfair - most manufacturers do not produce cars that are without fault.
The Mondeo was a good car but the 2.0TDCI suffered with dual mass flywheel problems and others suffered injector problems.
Try google for these problems.
But you were using it to say my 98 Mondeo had these problems and when I told you there was no 2.0 diesel Mondeo in 98, you told me I was completely wrong.
I don't need to Google anything to do with Mondeos, I have owned 6.
Any car with DMF is likely to run into problems, not just a 2.0 TDCi Mondeo. It is a combination of poor clutch control and can also be attributed to pulling away in 3rd by mistake and the sudden load usually resulting in the car stalling. I know many people who ran 2.0TDCi Mondeos and had neither problems. As I said I had a 2.2 TDCi and never had any injector problems and although I managed to kill the clutch slave cylinder and clutch at 100k miles, the DMF was just fine. The problems weren't as prolific as you make out.
I can see you are new to the forum and with the vast number of posts you won't have read them all, so I will fill you in on why it would appear I am criticising Tesla or have a beef with Tesla.Why are you criticising Tesla so much?
No matter which car manufacturer you look at you can 'pull them apart' - i asked before - 'what is your beef with Tesla?'