Beginner Complete beginner. Need help.

lizzies_

lizzies_

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Lizzie
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Hey guys,

I'm a real beginner here. I know absolutely nothing about photography, or the way my camera works.

I want to be good enough to set up a business doing family photography, but where do I start?!

I have a Canon EOS 100D that is sitting on my coffee table.
I've thought about jacking it in already as getting going seems to be really slow.

Can anyone offer me tips and advice?

Where do I get prints from? How do I start? Do I practice using clients at a discount?
Is it worth it?

Thanks, I really appreciate everyone's input and criticism, whether good or bad.
 
Hello and a very warm welcome to you Lizzie.

Useful Sections for New Members (click links)

> The Help section contains some good general information about how we do things around here and how the forum works.
> FAQs and Guides can be found here.
> Forum Help and Support is there for you to ask questions and get one to one support if you're having problems finding your way around or working out how to do things.
> Link up with other photographers in your area for local events and days out in Meeting Place.
> Or maybe you fancy a challenge . . . Take a look at some of the organised TP challenges and competitions here.

I think your jumping in at the deep end and taking on too much. First get to know the camera inside out, its limitations ect. Then gradually build up a portfolio of shots on Fllickr usually to share on here for hints and tips to improve things. Do lots of reading and asking questions on here. Many here will have taken the same route as you, but walk it and don't try to run.(y)
 
If you really are serious about this, then my advice is as follows in exactly this order.

1) (This is more of a 'you NEED to do this first') Learn how to use your camera. Get the manual for your camera, read it front to back so you know it back to front, and then read it again! You should be able to find other books that will give you help with your particular camera model.
2) Get practicing. You can't cheat this one. Find any type of subjects you can, and learn what makes them look good and what does't look good. Start off with natural light, then once you are comfortable with using your camera, move on to some flash photography and how to use flash effectively.
3) Practice some more (The more you practice the better you will get) - FACT
4) Get some friends to pose for you and learn what makes them look good and what does't work. Try all sorts of different angles, focal lengths, lighting styles, etc.
5) Find someone who you can study and try to re-create their work (Make sure you don't just simply copy, but learn how they have done things, and why. (I learnt using Karl Taylor's youtube channel and subscribing to his course, but there are more than plenty of places to look for this type of thing).
6) Find another photographer who is willing to mentor you. There will no doubt plenty of people on here who will be willing to offer you help and advice on a 1 to 1 basis. Myself included.
7) Once you have some photos you think are good, post some on here and let people give you some guidance. Don't be get too upset when someone gives you a bad review or comment (This will happen at some point and even the best photographers still get picked apart from time to time) Learn to take all comments on the chin and learn from what people have said.
8) This is the most important one - enjoy yourself. If you're not enjoying yourself and are not passionate about what you are doing, then how can you expect other people to be passionate of love what you create. (The best photographs might not be 'technically' great but will always have heart and soul in them).

And breathe!!!! :D Hope that helps to get you started. Give us a shout if you want any more help or advice. Look forward to seeing some of your work.
 
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the last Professional Studio doing 'Family Photos' and weddings went BROKE here over a year ago -- 'Lindrum Studios' a business that had been in Brentwood over 70 years. There was another similar in the High Street gone broke many years ago and Proprietor rented out premises to a Pizza Place and they didn't pay any RENT so he got the Baliffs in and they took all the Pizza making stuff -- it is now a small tea-shop. All Staff Photographers on local newspapers have lost their jobs. They get FREE photos sent in from readers, schools, 'Girl in the Office with a Nikon Coolpix' etc etc Not much hope I'm afraid for a new business -- also now you need to have ' Public Liability Insurance' if are dealing with families in case a young kid trips over your flash or tripod or something !
 
Thank you everyone, I really appreciate all of your feedback. After reading your comments, I realise this is a skill I need to develop over a few years before I get to turn it into a career?
 
pentaxpete said:
the last Professional Studio doing 'Family Photos' and weddings went BROKE here over a year ago -- 'Lindrum Studios' a business that had been in Brentwood over 70 years. There was another similar in the High Street gone broke many years ago and Proprietor rented out premises to a Pizza Place and they didn't pay any RENT so he got the Baliffs in and they took all the Pizza making stuff -- it is now a small tea-shop. All Staff Photographers on local newspapers have lost their jobs. They get FREE photos sent in from readers, schools, 'Girl in the Office with a Nikon Coolpix' etc etc Not much hope I'm afraid for a new business -- also now you need to have ' Public Liability Insurance' if are dealing with families in case a young kid trips over your flash or tripod or something !
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Ha, new forum nickname? "Positive Pete".

lizzies_ said:
Thank you everyone, I really appreciate all of your feedback. After reading your comments, I realise this is a skill I need to develop over a few years before I get to turn it into a career?
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It depends on the person. But it probably wouldn't hurt to forget about the business stuff for a while and just have fun learning how to shoot.

Or you could forget about the photography stuff for a while, and learn how to business. Depends what you want to do, there's nothing to say you have to be a photographer to run a photography business.
 
The reality ---- you never hear of a 'Poor Solicitor, Dentist or Plumber' BUT there are thousands of Poor Photographers out of business now . The last year i was in business I grossed £ 579 in the YEAR and i am deducting £ 35 of that for a Press Job the Yellow Advertiser newspaper refuses to pay for March 2016 -- I had a message from the editor saying " I had a late night phone call from my Boss about your invoice for £ 35 -- I asked reporter to look it up and you were not given a 'Credit' so maybe that is why but I never authorised it and will not pay" -- and that was a big Story I found and wrote it up and supplied photos one of which was used and how PETTY a 'Late Night Phone Call ' all over 30 Quid when they charge MORE than that for the smallest advertisement in the paper -- so I have done my Tax Return and got a refund of £ 229 and HMRC sent me a letter saying I no longer have to file Tax Returns --good -- because the Accountants wanted £ 180 to do it ! PS -- You never hear of a 'Poor Accountant' either !
 
I'm not relying on this solely for an income as of yet. I'm a working mum, and photography is something I enjoy (shooting pretty pictures from my phone), so I gathered I'd try and bring in a little extra income from something I enjoy doing. Even if it's an extra £50 here and there.
 
Just keep shooting and reading, it'll start to fall into place as you practice
 
pentaxpete said:
The reality ---- you never hear of a 'Poor Solicitor, Dentist or Plumber' BUT there are thousands of Poor Photographers out of business now . The last year i was in business I grossed £ 579 in the YEAR and i am deducting £ 35 of that for a Press Job the Yellow Advertiser newspaper refuses to pay for March 2016 -- I had a message from the editor saying " I had a late night phone call from my Boss about your invoice for £ 35 -- I asked reporter to look it up and you were not given a 'Credit' so maybe that is why but I never authorised it and will not pay" -- and that was a big Story I found and wrote it up and supplied photos one of which was used and how PETTY a 'Late Night Phone Call ' all over 30 Quid when they charge MORE than that for the smallest advertisement in the paper -- so I have done my Tax Return and got a refund of £ 229 and HMRC sent me a letter saying I no longer have to file Tax Returns --good -- because the Accountants wanted £ 180 to do it ! PS -- You never hear of a 'Poor Accountant' either !
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I was happy before I read this thread. And doing all right for myself
 
lizzies_ said:
Hey guys,

I'm a real beginner here. I know absolutely nothing about photography, or the way my camera works.

I want to be good enough to set up a business doing family photography, but where do I start?!

I have a Canon EOS 100D that is sitting on my coffee table.
I've thought about jacking it in already as getting going seems to be really slow.

Can anyone offer me tips and advice?

Where do I get prints from? How do I start? Do I practice using clients at a discount?
Is it worth it?

Thanks, I really appreciate everyone's input and criticism, whether good or bad.
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I can't comment on making money from photography but I will on the general subject of learning how to use your camera as I think you do need to know how to work your gear, so I recommend you...

Read the manual.
Google stuff like the technical basics of photography, exposure, aperture, shutter speed, ISO, depth of field etc. and read about and learn the technical stuff and practice with your gear.
Once you can use the camera you could go on to read general photography articles etc.and look at the pictures other people are producing or you could decide that you don't care what other people are doing and don't want to look at other peoples pictures :D

You could just select your cameras automatic green square mode but that wont help you understand how to jump in and take control if you're not happy with the results.

Practicing and learning is cheap when you shoot digital as you don't need to buy film and pay someone to process it :D So, play, learn and practice pretty much for free :D One piece of advice I will give is force yourself to really look at things.

Good luck with it.
 
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lizzies_ said:
I'm not relying on this solely for an income as of yet. I'm a working mum, and photography is something I enjoy (shooting pretty pictures from my phone), so I gathered I'd try and bring in a little extra income from something I enjoy doing. Even if it's an extra £50 here and there.
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I've been doing this going on my 6th year soon... having started out similar to you. The first 2 years were learning - what I was doing wrong, what I was doing right, another couple of years to work out what I really enjoyed shooting and what I could actually shoot well, and up to now, honing my personal style. It's probably only been the last 1.5 years that I've actually been able to make a bit of a name for myself locally and confident in what I am able to deliver. An unfortunate (but maybe blessing in disguise) redundancy this year has made me work that bit harder now to go out on my own.

I've not read everyone's comments above, but I would say to just take your time. I'm self taught, so it can be done. Look to the people with experience, most people are happy to share their knowledge and help. Learn your camera, learn about light... that's the boring stuff. But if you get that right, you're off to a running start. And if I can help, give me a holler.
 
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There's money to be had in selling plastic spoons if you can market and sell yourself correctly. Business is simply down to two things. Supply and Demand. If you make the potential customer feel they need to have your product, then business will flow.
 
I have just completed a 10 week basic camera course at Durham college with a 4 week extra top up course where 12 of us, all beginners we taught the basics of how to use our digital cameras with a different topic each week and time to go out practice, practice practice. Feed back and discussions with other newbies in exactly the same boat as me was priceless as well as having a great tutor who kept it basic and pointed us in the right direction for getting the best out of our cameras using the various modes etc. There are some great books out there for teaching yourself but 10 mins over a coffee chatting with others about how to do something is even better.
 
lizzies_ said:
I'm not relying on this solely for an income as of yet. I'm a working mum, and photography is something I enjoy (shooting pretty pictures from my phone), so I gathered I'd try and bring in a little extra income from something I enjoy doing. Even if it's an extra £50 here and there.
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If you ignore PentaxPete there's some great advice here.

The one thing I want to add (because there's so many people who think offering a discount to practice is workable); would you buy a cake from me cheap, I've not baked before but I fancy a go?

It's a daft premise and one that's left people unstuck. Before you can hang up the 'for hire' sign, you have to be competent. You don't have to be David Bailey, but you have to be able to produce something of merchantable quality.

And for a distant glance, photography is a luxury product. Very few people 'need' photos, so offering a cheap product takes you into a marketplace where there's always someone cheaper. Think about a market, research it and put yourself into it. Just being able to take a picture isn't a marketing strategy (it was in 1975, which might give you an insight into one of the answers above) ;)
 
Join a camera club

Ignore most of what they tell you about how to take a photograph.

Enjoy what you do (If you dislike a particular type of photography don't do it, you won't improve)

Practice on family members, then friends of family (you need to be confident with people you don't know)

Practice more.
 
sunnyside_up said:
I've been doing this going on my 6th year soon... having started out similar to you. The first 2 years were learning - what I was doing wrong, what I was doing right, another couple of years to work out what I really enjoyed shooting and what I could actually shoot well, and up to now, honing my personal style. It's probably only been the last 1.5 years that I've actually been able to make a bit of a name for myself locally and confident in what I am able to deliver. An unfortunate (but maybe blessing in disguise) redundancy this year has made me work that bit harder now to go out on my own.

I've not read everyone's comments above, but I would say to just take your time. I'm self taught, so it can be done. Look to the people with experience, most people are happy to share their knowledge and help. Learn your camera, learn about light... that's the boring stuff. But if you get that right, you're off to a running start. And if I can help, give me a holler.
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Thank you so much! I'll more than likely be in touch fairly soon! Need to pull my finger out, I think.
 
lizzies_ said:
Thank you everyone, I really appreciate all of your feedback. After reading your comments, I realise this is a skill I need to develop over a few years before I get to turn it into a career?
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Yes. Even if you have an inborn natural talent for composition - and some people have - you still need to learn the basics of light and photography, and how not just your camera, but cameras in general, function and operate, before you even think of turning pro. Having said that, if you have more determination than you indicated in your first post, you will make it, and I wish you every good fortune.
 
Lizzie

Please ignore the soothsayer, otherwise you will never do anything.

I do not know Bethy (Sunnyside_Up), but have previously watched her posts and images and was surprised how short a time she has been involved in the business, but produces good images and has sound business sense. Follow her example.

There is a lot to learn and if you can find a local mentor, this will be quicker than shelling out for courses, although you can often find cheap f.e. courses locally.

Bear in mind that a lot of pros use teaching photography as additional income. Some are very reasonable, others are a rip off. And they vary massively in quality too. You want someone who puts you in the driving seat rather than tells you how good they are.

See if anyone on here is prepared to mentor you for free. (Sorry I am in the wrong part of the country before you ask).

But do give it a go. You have been brave enough to put your head above the parapet. Take the next step.......
 
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Hi Lizzie... take a step back. You've said yourself you're a working mum and something like this is appealing for a "bit of extra income".

In 10 years time, what will you look back on and be pleased about - having earned a few extra quid over those years or having some wonderful images of your kid(s) that capture moments you'll now never forget and be able to look back on for many years?

I'm a dad who enjoys photography as well so I get it... I'd focus on improving your photography for the simply reason of being able to capture "better" (whatever that means) images for your own enjoyment. Ignore making money out of it and ignore - at this stage - what other people want. It's about you and what you'll treasure in the future. I suspect that seeking to turn what might be a hobby into a business (for someone who already has a job) may be a recipe for enjoying all of it far less!

Of course, if you NEED to make more cash then again, I'd be inclined to park photography and do something else that will generate a reliable income stream. But any additional "job" (whether normal work or photography) is going to eat into your time with your kid(s) so again, you have to ask what's most important.
 
lizzies_ said:
Thank you everyone. I've realised its not as simple as buying a camera, and instantly becoming 'business woman of the year'.
I have a lot of work to do!
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realising that puts you considerably ahead of a lot of wannabe photographers - i put a long reply on your other thread which i'm not going to repeat verbatim here, but a key point i'd flag is that running a photography business is about 20% photography and 80% business .. that is even if you have the photographic talent to be the next David Bailey you won't get anywhere unless you have decent business skills to match

on the otherhand if your business and marketting skills are great, you can suceed even if your photography is mediocre (assuming it is above a certain level of competence - you have to be able to deliver what you are promising, not have your marketing writing cheques that your photographic ability can't cash )
 
Welcome Lizzie,
lots of good advice here, take a much as you can.
Start at the begining, pick up that camera, shoot lots, learn, read, try some youtube tutorials, once you've starting getting out of auto mode, try out more stuff, practice, learn new techniques, learn the basics of processing, get advice from more experienced photographers, take an evening course at your local college.
But if you are a parent and already have another job, don't get too wrapped up with this photography. Also don't give yourself a deadline to start earning money. You can't force it. Even once you are a competant photographer, you'll still need to find your natural style, your own way of working. You'll also need work out what sort of photography you enjoy and are best at (which you'll only work out by trying).
If eventually you want to do people photography, you could do worse than working as an assistant to another photographer, see how they work, pick up on how they interract with their subjects (which is half of a portrait photographers skill) or work as a second shooter with an experienced wedding photographer.
But all that is in the future.
Start with the basics, get shooting and enjoy. Join flickr.com and follow some photographers whose images you like, use them as inspiration, post some of your images on flickr and here, allow people to offer comments and criticism, take it on board and learn.

If you have a normal job and kids keep you busy, take the camera to work with you and either shoot on your lunch break on a walk or on your way home from work. Or if your only free time is after work in the evenings, make use of the light summer nights, go out with the camera (and kids if you must ;) )
Kids can be fun to work with and also a pain in the bum; but my kids are the reason I got back into photography properly. 6 years on, I still have a "day job" with occasional paid photography funding new kit. But I love it.

btw: @sunnyside_up is a great example, follow her example, she's developed a great style and produces superb images.
 
At my Club, our 'Professional Digital Expert' often shows wedding photos taken by a newcomer to photography who thinks all you need is a Canon or Nikon Digital camera and then you can earn pots of money-- the desperate Brides come to him at great expense to try to 'save' their Wedding Photos-- for example -- I've seen some where the photographer has posed couple under a tree with bride in a sunny bit and groom in the shadows and no 'Fill-in Flash' so you can imagine how kit looked ! Join a CLUB first and SUBMIT photos to the competitions as I did at 15 years old and I learnt everything from 'Clubs' enough to get me my ABIPP and ARPS qualifications and do professional work for 57 years and 46 as a local self=employed Freelance-- be careful -- the INCOME TAX MAN DOES Check up on you ---
 
pentaxpete said:
At my Club, our 'Professional Digital Expert' often shows wedding photos taken by a newcomer to photography who thinks all you need is a Canon or Nikon Digital camera and then you can earn pots of money-- the desperate Brides come to him at great expense to try to 'save' their Wedding Photos-- for example -- I've seen some where the photographer has posed couple under a tree with bride in a sunny bit and groom in the shadows and no 'Fill-in Flash' so you can imagine how kit looked ! Join a CLUB first and SUBMIT photos to the competitions as I did at 15 years old and I learnt everything from 'Clubs' enough to get me my ABIPP and ARPS qualifications and do professional work for 57 years and 46 as a local self=employed Freelance-- be careful -- the INCOME TAX MAN DOES Check up on you ---
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Camera clubs couldn't be less relevant to professional photography if they tried IMHO.
The clue starts with the title 'camera club', not photography, or images or art or anything commercial - just camera. :(

Then we get into what makes a 'good image' and the average camera club goes straight to the rule book - is it pin sharp, does it subscribe to our favoured composition rule of the moment? etc.

Not - what does it say? is there a market for it? which are obviously the important questions (as you know - because you were a pro)

Looking through the galleries of my local camera clubs is a million miles away from the galleries of the local successful photographers. Maybe business wouldn't have dropped off for you Pete if you'd been looking in the right place for where the industry was heading (clue -definitely not camera clubs)

edited to add 'Professional Digital Expert' says it all - camera clubs are still treating 'digital' as if it's something just off to the side of photography:thinking:
 
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pentaxpete said:
At my Club, our 'Professional Digital Expert' often shows wedding photos taken by a newcomer to photography who thinks all you need is a Canon or Nikon Digital camera and then you can earn pots of money-- the desperate Brides come to him at great expense to try to 'save' their Wedding Photos ...
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I trust that the members are suitably impressed by this.

pentaxpete said:
Join a CLUB first and SUBMIT photos to the competitions as I did at 15 years old and I learnt everything from 'Clubs' enough to get me my ABIPP and ARPS qualifications and do professional work for 57 years and 46 as a local self=employed Freelance ...
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Or don't join a club, as I didn't after being put off the idea for life when I too tried it at the age of 15. Instead, I learned whatever I knew just by trial and error and from books (this being long before the internets), but still managed to earn a good living as a professional wedding photographer for 10 years before illness put the mockers on it. LMPA and LBIPP too, for what that's worth!

Phil V said:
'Professional Digital Expert' says it all
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Gosh, doesn't it just. I can well imagine the sort of chap who would be a "Professional Digital Expert" ...
 
Clubs might have been a good way to learn and get your hand on kit 15-20 years ago, but there are other ways to learn now like online courses and youtube videos.
Some people might like the club aspect, others might not and it will obviously depend greatly on what your local club is like.
Personally I have limited time as it is and I'd rather spend the time out shooting and improving skills than chatting and listening to someone talk about photography.
 
Ok then -- have a look at the website of our 'Professional Digital Expert' and you can see what he does ----
http://home.btconnect.com/R2-Digital/print_restoration.htm

PS -- I was at the 'Leaving Party' for Chief Photographer of the Yellow Advertiser who has just lost his job after 22 years of loyal service and out of 15 people on the table, Reporters and Staff Photographers only 6 had jobs and only ONE was a Photographer -- they were mostly over 45-50 but not of 'Retiring age' so will never work in Photography again as Staffers -- one says he is trying to get a job in Tescos as a 'Shelf Stacker' ---
 
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pentaxpete said:
Ok then -- have a look at the website of our 'Professional Digital Expert' and you can see what he does ----
http://home.btconnect.com/R2-Digital/print_restoration.htm
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The standard of english and the lack of a propper web address tells us everything we need to know about his 'professional status

"My services are helping wedding photographers as a second photographer for reportage pictures. I will photograph anything anyone needs to the best that I can and then of course if any retouching is required it is all done in the same place! "

yeah, erm , right ...
 
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pentaxpete said:
Ok then -- have a look at the website of our 'Professional Digital Expert' and you can see what he does ----
http://home.btconnect.com/R2-Digital/print_restoration.htm

PS -- I was at the 'Leaving Party' for Chief Photographer of the Yellow Advertiser who has just lost his job after 22 years of loyal service and out of 15 people on the table, Reporters and Staff Photographers only 6 had jobs and only ONE was a Photographer -- they were mostly over 45-50 but not of 'Retiring age' so will never work in Photography again as Staffers -- one says he is trying to get a job in Tescos as a 'Shelf Stacker' ---
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Judging by that website your 'Professional Digital Expert' is more of a photo retoucher than photographer. But no self-respecting freelancer would host a website on a home BT Connect account ;)

It is sad that so many publications are doing away with staff photographers, relying more on "user generated content", agency supplied images and "multi-skilled reporters" rather than have really photographers (or even camera people in TV news). Even the BBC only has 1 or 2 staff photographers.
These days if you want to be a news photographer, you need to be a journalist and photographer to get work.

But this is about someone who wants to learn and perhaps later become a family/portrait photographer, so perhaps we can get back on point ;)
 
pentaxpete said:
Ok then -- have a look at the website of our 'Professional Digital Expert' and you can see what he does ----
http://home.btconnect.com/R2-Digital/print_restoration.htm

PS -- I was at the 'Leaving Party' for Chief Photographer of the Yellow Advertiser who has just lost his job after 22 years of loyal service and out of 15 people on the table, Reporters and Staff Photographers only 6 had jobs and only ONE was a Photographer -- they were mostly over 45-50 but not of 'Retiring age' so will never work in Photography again as Staffers -- one says he is trying to get a job in Tescos as a 'Shelf Stacker' ---
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Your professional digital expert has been covered above, there's no point in kicking the poor sap any more.

Press photography has just about died at all but the highest level. But the same is not true for social photography, which has gone through some massive changes, and is still thriving.

Here's the stark reality though.

30 years ago, being able to get a well exposed and in focus shot was enough to get you work as a 'professional photographer', then cameras became very good at that sort of thing automatically. Leaving the only thing that seperates the amateur from the pro talent, rather than technical ability. So now it boils down to 'what' you're shooting, to our creativity and imagination.

The old school that were forced into retirement when digital exploded was down to a complete lack of talent, the 'top' wedding photographers round these parts from 20 years ago still get some work due to their reputation but nowhere near as much as they had, they're outclassed massively by a host of younger more talented guys and girls. I'm sorry to say Pete that there's no market for people who didn't smell the coffee and up their game significantly. F8 and be there is no longer enough to get the gigs.

If I'd have shot Saturday's wedding the same as I shot in 1996 I'd be out of business, the 2 styles are a world apart.

Edited to add... If you can't see the quality difference between the websites of the pros that have responded here and your mate the 'expert' then you really have my pity, this must have come as quite a shock to you.
 
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Serendipitous Sid said:
Gosh. Even worse than I expected.
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Did you see the innovative samples for the wedding storybook ? http://home.btconnect.com/R2-Digital/examples.htm#6 I'm afraid i laughed so much coffee came out of my nose ... however joking aside these do illustrate a big problem with going to groups for 'proffesional development' - that being that some group members are stuck in a timewarp to the days when photoshop had just been invented (or earlier)
 
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