Conspiracy theories

All answered very coherently on Clavius and a wealth of places.

And yes, there are some good explanations
(or dare I say evidence) on both sides for and against.

TBH I am not really bothered either way, whether they did or they didn't.
But the advances in science are there for all to see, through the 20th and in 21st centuries (y)
With a lot of them being attributed to the "Great Wars" and the "Space Race"

But conspiracy theories per sé fascinate me. (y)
Some are more believable than others though ;)
 
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, once you start to question those that don't believe, they tend to quickly realise that they don't actually know much about Apollo, nor Gemini, nor Mercury. All three programs were stepping stones to the moon starting with manned flights in 1961. It wasn't just some instant giant leap that came out of nowhere. The techniques, processes, procedures were worked out during Mercury, then Gemini, then Apollo in low Earth orbit before first going to the moon in Dec 1968. A series of technological stepping stones that resulted in one of mankind's greatest endeavours, that also cost a number of astronauts their lives.
To me the doubters are not only spitting on those graves, they are rubbishing the pioneering hard-work of 400,000 people that actually made it possible.
 
And
the scale / positioning of lunar module from different viewpoint/camera (the difference between television footage and hasselblad

the light source/ reflection in visor

the different shadows
the repetition of mountain backdrops

why they were supposed to be landing in the dark on apollo 13

the camera cross behind objects

the fill light in shadow areas

quite a few more too but thats plenty to start
(y)

Seriously? They are all mantras of the lurid channel 5 type conspiracy shows. Even the most basic bit of research will give you the answers.

And yes, there are some good explanations
(or dare I say evidence) on both sides for and against.

Actually there is no credible evidence to support the conspracy.
 
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, once you start to question those that don't believe, they tend to quickly realise that they don't actually know much about Apollo, nor Gemini, nor Mercury. All three programs were stepping stones to the moon starting with manned flights in 1961. It wasn't just some instant giant leap that came out of nowhere. The techniques, processes, procedures were worked out during Mercury, then Gemini, then Apollo in low Earth orbit before first going to the moon in Dec 1968. A series of technological stepping stones that resulted in one of mankind's greatest endeavours, that also cost a number of astronauts their lives.
To me the doubters are not only spitting on those graves, they are rubbishing the pioneering hard-work of 400,000 people that actually made it possible.

Im not well enough informed to judge, but after watching that video, it raised a few valid questions
And Im sceptical regardless, as it was achieved edited and released by total american agency. They tend to lie when it suits them, as is well proven historically
 
Actually there is no credible evidence to support the conspracy.

As I said above I don't really care if they did or they didn't.
Leaving the "Luna landings" aside, surely any evidence,
whatever the subject matter, is purely down to interpretation and perception,
of the people seeing or hearing the evidence.

Otherwise there would be no need for "12 good men and true"?
 
Im not well enough informed to judge, but after watching that video, it raised a few valid questions
And Im sceptical regardless, as it was achieved edited and released by total american agency. They tend to lie when it suits them, as is well proven historically

And as mentioned before, that American agency that you don't trust did not make the rockets, the spacecraft, the space suits etc. So are you suggesting that NAA, Grumman, Boeing, Douglas, IBM, ILC Dover and hundreds of other manufacturers, contractors, sub-contractors etc are lying too?
 
And as mentioned before, that American agency that you don't trust did not make the rockets, the spacecraft, the space suits etc. So are you suggesting that NAA, Grumman, Boeing, Douglas, IBM, ILC Dover and hundreds of other manufacturers, contractors, sub-contractors etc are lying too?

Okay, devil's advocate here. Why would they all need to know??
 
Okay, devil's advocate here. Why would they all need to know??

I don't understand what your asking. Are you saying that they manufactured all the hardware, software, peripherals only for it to be chucked into landfill?
That all the stuff needed to go to the moon and back, was actually made but not used?
 
I don't understand what your asking. Are you saying that they manufactured all the hardware, software, peripherals only for it to be chucked into landfill?
That all the stuff needed to go to the moon and back, was actually made but not used?

Of course I'm not. I'm asking why all those contractors would need to be in on the hoax (if there was one). Surely none of those guys would ever need to have known.
 
Of course I'm not. I'm asking why all those contractors would need to be in on the hoax (if there was one). Surely none of those guys would ever need to have known.

Which itself poses a number of questions. The main one being, if they weren't party to the "hoax", then what happened to all of those products that they made? NASA paid for them. Why would they pay for them, then not use them?
Let's remember ALL over the NASA hardware was tested in space before the Apollo 11 landing. Apollo 10 even did a lunar flyover to test approach procedures.
 
I dont know, or really care who lied about what, but just by nature, American government cant be trusted
Just about all my research on this subject was watching that video and the football scores coming in
I dont think all the people involved knew about it IF it was a hoax, but as I said, lots of questions raised, along with Americas reliability for untruth, I'm not sure what the truth is, and not going to lose any sleep on the subject either
Carry on with me on the sidelines, I'm getting ready to research a strange brew called beer in an establishment the locals call a pub to celebrate baby jesus birthday ( if there was such a person, but thats another conspiracy argument for you)
 
Which itself poses a number of questions. The main one being, if they weren't party to the "hoax", then what happened to all of those products that they made? NASA paid for them. Why would they pay for them, then not use them?
Let's remember ALL over the NASA hardware was tested in space before the Apollo 11 landing. Apollo 10 even did a lunar flyover to test approach procedures.

They used it to make some flying saucers?
 
The other thing that mystifies me about the lunar landing conspiracy folk is that they only consider the landings to be faked. When did you hear anyone question that Ed White was the first American to walk in Space, that Jim Lovell and Frank Borman spent nearly 2 weeks in space in Gemini 7 testing human resilience in space, that Apollo 8 orbited the Moon in 1968, that Apollo 10 flew over lunar mountain tops in 1969?
And do the hoax believers think that NASA killed White, Grissom and Chaffee to make the hoax more believable?
 
I think we should question everything, don't take what you are told as gospel! Some people do tend to take the conspiracy stuff a bit too far though! Keep an open mind but also apply some common sense :)

Exactly! I don't have strong opinions on the JFK or 911 conspiracy because I haven't actually researched them.
 
The other thing that mystifies me about the lunar landing conspiracy folk is that they only consider the landings to be faked. When did you hear anyone question that Ed White was the first American to walk in Space, that Jim Lovell and Frank Borman spent nearly 2 weeks in space in Gemini 7 testing human resilience in space, that Apollo 8 orbited the Moon in 1968, that Apollo 10 flew over lunar mountain tops in 1969?
And do the hoax believers think that NASA killed White, Grissom and Chaffee to make the hoax more believable?

CTists do believe Pete Conrad was killed as he was "about to blow the whistle." ;)
 
gm43uk said:
I know someone who is really into conspiracy theories and is just incapable of listening to any reasonable argument. Any attempt to disprove his pet theories is like talking to a brick wall and dismissed as a "cover up".

I know the same bloke, or his twin brother
 
Which itself poses a number of questions. The main one being, if they weren't party to the "hoax", then what happened to all of those products that they made? NASA paid for them. Why would they pay for them, then not use them?
Let's remember ALL over the NASA hardware was tested in space before the Apollo 11 landing. Apollo 10 even did a lunar flyover to test approach procedures.

To convince everyone it was real.
 
Two reason to believe in the moon landings.

1). This was at the hight of the Cold War and Russia would have been all over a hoax, they tracked the mission themselves.

2) Americans just can't keep secrets, there were only two people in the Oval Office yet we all know what Monica did with Bill.

Every single Moon landing CT has been shot to bits here http://www.braeunig.us/space/hoax.htm
 
Two reason to believe in the moon landings.

1). This was at the hight of the Cold War and Russia would have been all over a hoax, they tracked the mission themselves.

2) Americans just can't keep secrets, there were only two people in the Oval Office yet we all know what Monica did with Bill.

Every single Moon landing CT has been shot to bits here http://www.braeunig.us/space/hoax.htm

You create a good argument. You've convinced me. (y)
 
another person from the BBC documentary has set up a group called the Love Police and is clamouring another 5 minutes of fame joining every other cause known to man or beast
You're a bit back to front there. Charlie Veitch set up the Love Police 2 years prior to 9/11 Roadtrip, and was asked to appear because he was a known face in the 9/11 conspiracy community.

To his credit though, he did look at the evidence presented to him, and did change his mind.
However, because of this, the 9/11 conspiracy community have completely turned on him, branded him a "traitor", a sell out, made claims that he was a BBC/CIA inside agent all along, and all manner of stuff.

Anyway, here's my views on the bits mentioned.

1969 Moon Landing

Now, you can seperate this into "man didn't land on The Moon in 1969" and "man didn't land on The Moon at all".
The Space Race was exactly that. America and Russia both desperate to get their flag into the lunar surface.
There was supposedly an attempt to fake moonwalking footage by the Russians, let down by bubbles coming out of the back of the cosmonaught's helmet.

NASA has footage showing Neil Armstrong failing miserably to control the prototype lander flying system, having to eject and let the lander crash.

The President had promised the people that an American man would walk on The Moon by the end of the decade, and by golly, they managed it. Just. If they couldn't have done it, would they have faked it, just to make sure? And if they would have, did they?

Very unlikely.

However, the conspiracy theory has flourished, mainly because NASA are dicks. There are photo's with anomolies in them, and rather than release a statement saying "These are retouched or composite photo's, designed for publicity purposes rather than scientific study", they just deny things that are clearly there.
Likewise, there is some infamous video footage, supposedly taken in two different locations, and on two different days. The location is clearly identical. The camera is on a tripod, and put side by side (or even overlaid, as some documentaries have done), the background and foreground lining up exactly proves that it is the same place.
Instead of NASA saying "Perhaps the videos have been incorrectly filed, and they are in fact the same place", they spent years claiming it was nonsense was positively, definately two different places. This is what fueled a lot of the "shot in a studio" theories.
I believe they have in recent years admitted that it was a case of someone putting the wrong tape in the wrong box.

For "did man go there at all", the main argument revolves around the Russians suddenly deciding that they didn't want to go there after all, after the discovery of the Van Allen radiation belt.
Gagarin, Glenn and co weren't far enough into space to be affected by this, but to reach the moon, astronaughts would have to pass through it, and would not survive.

Did the UK Government kill Diana, Princess of Wales?

No. Why would they need to? To stop Dodi al Fayed becoming the first muslim king? In what reality was Fayed even slightly in line to the throne?

Diana wasn't going to become Queen. She gave that up with her indiscreet antics with Will Carling, James Hewitt, and the squidgy fellow.

Diana was no patron to road safety. One (somewhat insensitive) news organisation listed all the road accidents she'd been involved in just after she died. It was an insurance companies wet dream, with 5 in her final two years. More likely is that she knew a dramatic car chase through the Parisian streets would ensure her publicity, rather than sit back, read the paper, and give the paparazzi nothing worth publishing.

Having said that, I do wish the theory about the sniper disguised as a Duluxe dog was real.
 
Did the US Government carry out 9/11?

No, but there's several elements to it that carry some unpleasant possiblitities. Declassified recordings have proven that the US Government knew in advance that the 1993 WTC bombing was going to occur, and it was deemed an acceptable risk.
In January of 2001, Bush was stating on the record that he was eyeing up Iraq, and again in August, but needed a catalyst. I think the phrase he used was something like "We need another Pearl Harbour".

I don't for one minute think that the US orchestrated and carried out the 9/11 attack, but am quite willing to accept that they knew of an impending attack, again deemed it an acceptable risk, but didn't expect something so devastating.
The infamous clip of Bush in the school being told the news, and his odd expression actually fits an internal dialogue of "Oh crap, what have I done?" quite well.

9/11 was carried out by a terrorist organisation based in Afghanistan, and military action was taken against Iraq. There's no shortage of interviews with US citizens from around the time who think Sadam Hussain and Osama Bin Laden did it together.

As the Mai Lai massacre showed, don't think the US Government aren't above doing some nasty, nasty things to their own people when it suits their agenda.

It definately was a plane though. None of this "lasers from space" or "missiles hidden behind holograms" stuff.

JFK

Lee Harvey Oswald did it. The conspiracy is based on
a) the inaccurate depiction of the cars seating arrangement in the Warren Commission, that spawned the "magic bullet" elements,
b) glory hoppers adding themselves to the story and introducing elements that weren't true
c) nutters so desperate for there to be a conspiracy that they make things up and spread it around so it becomes embossed in the story (Lee Harvey Oswald not being able to hit the broad side of a barn, the Zapruder footage being edited to alter how JFK's head reacts to being blown apart)

Jack Ruby was a small time hustler, but a deeply patriotic man who figured he'd be seen as a hero for shooting the man that killed his president.

Pearl Harbour

No, America didn't attack it's own harbour as an excuse to enter the second world war.

The Bible

The Bible isn't a single book. Nor is it a collection of historical documents. It's a collection of accounts and opinions of people that written about the subject, all put in one handy volume, and then edited by the Romans to take out all the bits that made them look particularly bad, and also to elevate Jesus from merely a prophet to a divine being who had magic powers and couldn't be killed, and so it didn't really matter that they nailed the poor chap to a cross.

Bloody Romans, eh? What did they ever do for us?

Jesus was a real person. There's enough non-fictional reference material that shows he did exist, had siblings, trained to become a rabbi, and was probably handy with a chisel. He also had a pretty good outlook on life, which largely centered around people being nice to one another.
Since then, his followers have enforced this idea by slaughtering thousands upon thousands of people. Thou shalt not kill, eh?

Jesus had no direct input in The Bible. God had no direct input in The Bible. The Bible is simply all things related to Jesus's teachings and God's word as interpretted by that particular author, which is why it's littered with inconsistancies and contradictions. And who's to say that no one particular author had their own agenda?

Leviticus. That old chestnut that gets brought up as justification for beating up anyone who looks slightly effeminate. Has anyone actually read Leviticus?
It's basically Moses having a bad day and writing a blog of everyone that's ****ed him off that day. Gay people? Stoned them to death. People planting different crops in the same field? Firey painful death for those. Anyone wearing mixed fabrics? Off with their heads! People with more than 10 items in the 10 items or less aisle? Get a noose round 'em.

I'm pretty sure Moses didn't really want to kill 90% of the people he came into contact with. So he had a bad day and had a rant about it. He didn't know it was going to get published worldwide after he'd snuffed it.

Mormonisn

Joseph Smith was a guy with a deity complex, and was very likely more than a bit racist. I'm yet to meet a practicing Mormon that actually literally believes his gospel, but they tend to be super friendly guys with a good outlook on life and the family unit, and like the ideas that their religion promotes.

Anyone that gave us Crazy Horses can't be all bad. Mind you, they gave us Long Haired Lover from Liverpool too.....
 
Nice couple of posts, HMansfield.

I tend to agree with you on most points there.

There is plenty of evidence that the US knew 9/11 was coming, but I agree it is unlikely they expected that scale of death.

Pearl Harbour, would seem to be similar. Evidence they knew it was coming and used it as an excuse to enter the war. Operation Northwoods tells us that governments are not adverse to the odd false flag operation.
 
Two reason to believe in the moon landings.

1). This was at the hight of the Cold War and Russia would have been all over a hoax, they tracked the mission themselves.

2) Americans just can't keep secrets, there were only two people in the Oval Office yet we all know what Monica did with Bill.

Every single Moon landing CT has been shot to bits here http://www.braeunig.us/space/hoax.htm

Yeah, but every CTist knows that the Illuminati control all governments. ;)

They go a bit quiet when you mention how Iceland dealt with the financial crisis though.
 
For "did man go there at all", the main argument revolves around the Russians suddenly deciding that they didn't want to go there after all, after the discovery of the Van Allen radiation belt.
Gagarin, Glenn and co weren't far enough into space to be affected by this, but to reach the moon, astronaughts would have to pass through it, and would not survive.

That's not the case though. The problem the Russians had was that their moon rocket, the N1, exploded every time it was launched. They had already built their lander (fascinating pics on the web), but had no means to get it to the moon.
 
What is the standard theory re the Van Allen belt?
 
Jack Ruby was a small time hustler, but a deeply patriotic man who figured he'd be seen as a hero for shooting the man that killed his president.

Jack Ruby was just a second neurotic nutcase with a gun!

But it's hard to believe there could have been two of them in the same American city at the same time!! :eek:
 
Jack Ruby was just a second neurotic nutcase with a gun!

But it's hard to believe there could have been two of them in the same American city at the same time!! :eek:

That was a joke, right?
 
I'm sure Mr Geza was joking Dean

As for Van Allens belt having a standard theory, there are links in the thread already, but it appears the conspiracy side (and possibly the Russians) believe the radiation within them is too high, while NASA and their friends claim it is variable and can be penetrated safely.

I'm never going to be totally satisfied that the landings happened as NASA portray, but am questioning the photos and video footage again :D Maybe they did land without any problems, but had a studio set up for TV coverage; afterall, none of the astronauts took their helmets off ;)
 
I'm about in the same place. I think there is a possibility they faked some of the photos for effect, but I'm pretty sure they actually went.
 
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