Couple's big day is ‘ruined’ by an amateur photographer

No, but they could lose their home, wind up on the streets. Their children could suffer long term effects as a consequence of your poor performance.
A wedding picture is still just a picture. A tiny facet of an otherwise (hopefully) wonderful (if ridiculously overpriced) occasion.
Absolutely nothing important rests on it.
The mere fact that people would class the day as "ruined" because of it, in my opinion, calls into question their priorities in general.

It's not just a picture, though, is it? It's a picture of something that is incredibly important to that couple and hopefully still will be in 50 years as they paw over their beloved album together.

On my fireplace I have an 8 inch antique carved lion. It's not worth anything and if someone one day picks it up at a boot sale they'll probably bin it immediately. It belonged to my Mother, however, who's now dead and is one of my treasured possessions and I'd be gutted if it was ever damaged or lost. It's just an old wooden lion, though..

I don't do wedding photography and I never will but if I did, that person's wedding would be sacred to me, down to the last detail I was involved in. My job would be to deliver an extra-ordinary set of images of their most important day. Their priorities in general are none of my business. I wouldn't be getting paid to call those into question.
 
I actually couldn't give a rats arse about her s***e wedding photos, neither should the public at large.

People put themselves under a huge amount of stress and pain because of one day. It isn't that big, its not a whole marriage, its a couple of promises in front of something most don't really believe in. Followed up by paying over the odds for substandard food for people you hardly know, and wouldn't dream of paying for their dinner any other time.
 
I actually couldn't give a rats arse about her s***e wedding photos, neither should the public at large.

People put themselves under a huge amount of stress and pain because of one day. It isn't that big, its not a whole marriage, its a couple of promises in front of something most don't really believe in. Followed up by paying over the odds for substandard food for people you hardly know, and wouldn't dream of paying for their dinner any other time.

Yeah, you said that Andrew and it was equally as un-intelligent the second time round as it was the first.
 
It's not just a picture, though, is it? It's a picture of something that is incredibly important to that couple and hopefully still will be in 50 years as they paw over their beloved album together.

On my fireplace I have an 8 inch antique carved lion. It's not worth anything and if someone one day picks it up at a boot sale they'll probably bin it immediately. It belonged to my Mother, however, who's now dead and is one of my treasured possessions and I'd be gutted if it was ever damaged or lost. It's just an old wooden lion, though..

I don't do wedding photography and I never will but if I did, that person's wedding would be sacred to me, down to the last detail I was involved in. My job would be to deliver an extra-ordinary set of images of their most important day. Their priorities in general are none of my business. I wouldn't be getting paid to call those into question.

If they're still together after 50 years, they will have an entire lifetime of memories to muse over together.
Even substandard images from their wedding will still evoke fond memories, as in fact will the memories themselves, without the aid of photographs.
And again, you can't equate a lovely family heirloom such as your lion, which you have had for many years and already came to you full of memory and meaning, to a potentially lovely photography with was never taken and no one ever clapped eyes on.
 
If they're still together after 50 years, they will have an entire lifetime of memories to muse over together.
Even substandard images from their wedding will still evoke fond memories, as in fact will the memories themselves, without the aid of photographs.
And again, you can't equate a lovely family heirloom such as your lion, which you have had for many years and already came to you full of memory and meaning, to a potentially lovely photography with was never taken and no one ever clapped eyes on.

OK, so let's talk about the couple who this thread is about: if I was them I'd probably struggle to ever look at those photos again, considering the memories that are now attached to them. Of course they'll have many memories during 50 years of marriage but they didn't pay £500 for those; they paid £500 for pictures of their big day. Our memories fade. That's surely why many of us record such moments.

There's also been talk in this thread that they should have not been so cheap and should have paid a proper pro a proper fee. Some people, when they get married, may have a £50k budget so £1500 for a photographer is a small percentage of their final spend. Another couple may have £5k to spend so £500 actually represents a far larger percentage of their final spend.

I guess my point is that I would sincerely hope that the photographer at my wedding (and fortunately he did) would think that our photos were of utmost importance and treat his assignment as such.
 
Yeah, you said that Andrew and it was equally as un-intelligent the second time round as it was the first.
About as intelligent as using unnecessary hyphenated words, or not realising it was a double post caused by the software. Also it shows a distinct similarity to your accusations when resorting to question one's academic prowess, rather than discussing the matter in hand.
 
Not being rude.

You just appear to have quite a masculine outlook on the wedding day and associated photos.

I'm not saying it's wrong, you're maybe just in the minority of women who think that way.
 
OK, so let's talk about the couple who this thread is about: if I was them I'd probably struggle to ever look at those photos again, considering the memories that are now attached to them. Of course they'll have many memories during 50 years of marriage but they didn't pay £500 for those; they paid £500 for pictures of their big day. Our memories fade. That's surely why many of us record such moments.

There's also been talk in this thread that they should have not been so cheap and should have paid a proper pro a proper fee. Some people, when they get married, may have a £50k budget so £1500 for a photographer is a small percentage of their final spend. Another couple may have £5k to spend so £500 actually represents a far larger percentage of their final spend.

I guess my point is that I would sincerely hope that the photographer at my wedding (and fortunately he did) would think that our photos were of utmost importance and treat his assignment as such.


Absolutely correct Dunc.

Any bride-to-be wants to have the best possible from their wedding photos / day.
It's not about the amount of money spent, every job should be approached with the same professionalism and care, whatever it cost.
It's how you grow as a business and are able to charge more later on.
 
What they were promised and what was represented...

There's a lot of "buyer beware" and "they should have known better" types of comments in this thread. That is not the nature of business/contracts, it's the exact opposite.
:agree:
Regardless of cost, if someone or some business says this is what you are going to get for your money, then that's what you expect to get.
The same as a landscaper quoting £500 to re-turf a lawn with grade A turf, but actually using grade B or C turf.
 
About as intelligent as using unnecessary hyphenated words, or not realising it was a double post caused by the software. Also it shows a distinct similarity to your accusations when resorting to question one's academic prowess, rather than discussing the matter in hand.

Indeed. Or as intelligent as making precocious statements of "fact" that aren't, in fact, fact..

And I think you meant: "About as intelligent as using unnecessarily hyphenated words".

It would appear the forum software chose an incredibly unfortunate place in the thread at which to malfunction but if that was, indeed, the case, I respectfully withdraw my last comment to you.
 
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:agree:
Regardless of cost, if someone or some business says this is what you are going to get for your money, then that's what you expect to get.
The same as a landscaper quoting £500 to re-turf a lawn with grade A turf, but actually using grade B or C turf.

Ah the grass is always greener...
 
Not being rude.

You just appear to have quite a masculine outlook on the wedding day and associated photos.

I'm not saying it's wrong, you're maybe just in the minority of women who think that way.

No offence taken.
I simply don't see the point in the whole spendfest which generally constitutes a wedding.
There are way bigger priorities.
 
No offence taken.
I simply don't see the point in the whole spendfest which generally constitutes a wedding.
There are way bigger priorities.

TBH, Ruth, nor do I and our spend was fairly minor compared to most. That said, wedding photographers should surely love such pomp and ceremony as it's what their businesses are reliant upon.
 
There's also been talk in this thread that they should have not been so cheap and should have paid a proper pro a proper fee. Some people, when they get married, may have a £50k budget so £1500 for a photographer is a small percentage of their final spend. Another couple may have £5k to spend so £500 actually represents a far larger percentage of their final spend.
.

As someone already said though this isnt about them not having the money to hire a better tog - its about priorities. They also hired a photo booth from a seperate provider remember (and i think i read somewhere a chocolate fountain ) - they could have taken the money used for those and put it with the £500 into hiring someone who know what they are doing .. but they didnt, indicating that photobooth, chocolate fountains etc are a higher priority to them than decent pictures ... which is fine , but in that case its hard to see how those pictures being poor "ruins the day" if they werent that important in the first place

as to the argument that they didnt know what decent photography costs - it doesnt take much googling to see that most wedding photographers charge a sight more than £500 for prep to end of evening - at which point anyone with sense would think 'I wonder why this ones so cheap'... not 'hey lets go with the cheapest so we can spend more on other crap'

As I said i'm not defending the photographer misleading the client - that is indefensible, but people do need to take some personal responsibility for their actions and hiring a £500 tog* for the biggest day of your life isnt very clever (* and for those who are saying oh but £500 isnt that cheap - its not insanley cheap for a starter package , but Ms Johnston only charges £125 for her basic package - it is however insanely cheap for full coverage from prep to end of reception )
 
TBH, Ruth, nor do I and our spend was fairly minor compared to most. That said, wedding photographers should surely love such pomp and ceremony as it's what their businesses are reliant upon.

Once we said we were getting married, the families started in with "You must invite so-and-so....you must do this...you must do that".
So we eloped to California (holiday was already booked anyway) and came back married.
There were five people present including me, him and the officiant, and also one dog there too.
No one dressed up.
We got married by a river in the Tahoe National Forest and went for pizza afterwards :)
My friend took some snaps.
My wedding cost $99 :D
 
Once we said we were getting married, the families started in with "You must invite so-and-so....you must do this...you must do that".
So we eloped to California (holiday was already booked anyway) and came back married.
There were five people present including me, him and the officiant, and also one dog there too.
No one dressed up.
We got married by a river in the Tahoe National Forest and went for pizza afterwards :)
My friend took some snaps.
My wedding cost $99 :D

I actually think that's very cool and I'd have happily done that. I'd have also been castrated for even suggesting it so that was never really on the cards for me. :D
 
Once we said we were getting married, the families started in with "You must invite so-and-so....you must do this...you must do that".
So we eloped to California (holiday was already booked anyway) and came back married.
There were five people present including me, him and the officiant, and also one dog there too.
No one dressed up.
We got married by a river in the Tahoe National Forest and went for pizza afterwards :)
My friend took some snaps.
My wedding cost $99 :D
I feel inspired to have stacks of pizza at my (eventual) wedding reception now :banana:
 
I actually think that's very cool and I'd have happily done that. I'd have also been castrated for even suggesting it so that was never really on the cards for me. :D

Ouch!!
I feel you took the wiser option. :)
 
As someone already said though this isnt about them not having the money to hire a better tog - its about priorities. They also hired a photo booth from a seperate provider remember (and i think i read somewhere a chocolate fountain ) - they could have taken the money used for those and put it with the £500 into hiring someone who know what they are doing .. but they didnt, indicating that photobooth, chocolate fountains etc are a higher priority to them than decent pictures ... which is fine , but in that case its hard to see how those pictures being poor "ruins the day" if they werent that important in the first place

as to the argument that they didnt know what decent photography costs - it doesnt take much googling to see that most wedding photographers charge a sight more than £500 for prep to end of evening - at which point anyone with sense would think 'I wonder why this ones so cheap'... not 'hey lets go with the cheapest so we can spend more on other crap'

As I said i'm not defending the photographer misleading the client - that is indefensible, but people do need to take some personal responsibility for their actions and hiring a £500 tog* for the biggest day of your life isnt very clever (* and for those who are saying oh but £500 isnt that cheap - its not insanley cheap for a starter package , but Ms Johnston only charges £125 for her basic package - it is however insanely cheap for full coverage from prep to end of reception )

Personally, based upon all the transcripts now available I cannot see how you might put the blame at the feet of the clients.

They were told she was a pro, not a student.

They were shown examples of her work which weren't her's.

Based upon a pitch and "proof" of pitch they were quoted a price.

They accepted the price based upon what they'd been told and shown.

They were then provided with something quite different to what they'd been shown.

They complained and were told to "fxxx off".

They sued and the judge found them to be right.

I don't think the clients need take any responsibility for what happened and the price charged is completely irrelevant.
 
Once we said we were getting married, the families started in with "You must invite so-and-so....you must do this...you must do that".
So we eloped to California (holiday was already booked anyway) and came back married.
There were five people present including me, him and the officiant, and also one dog there too.
No one dressed up.
We got married by a river in the Tahoe National Forest and went for pizza afterwards :)
My friend took some snaps.
My wedding cost $99 :D

I did something very similar myself;)!
 
Personally, based upon all the transcripts now available I cannot see how you might put the blame at the feet of the clients.

They were told she was a pro, not a student.

They were shown examples of her work which weren't her's.

Based upon a pitch and "proof" of pitch they were quoted a price.

They accepted the price based upon what they'd been told and shown.

They were then provided with something quite different to what they'd been shown.

They complained and were told to "fxxx off".

They sued and the judge found them to be right.

I don't think the clients need take any responsibility for what happened and the price charged is completely irrelevant.

Ive lost count of the number of times ive already explained this point but once again

They were told she was a pro not a student, and believed her despitethe rock bottom prices she was charging

They were shown examples of her work which alledgedly werent hers - and alledgedly had other peoples water marks on which they somehow didnt notice

Based upon pitch and proof they were quoted an insanely low price, which didnt ring any alarm bells presumably because they didnt do any research into what they were buying or what the going rate was

They accepted the price based on what they'd been shown , and paid it in full despite her not having confirmed her availability (and then didnt do anything about the fact that she disapeared until the night before the wedding)

On the day of the shoot she made them / persuaded them to go for a woodland walk that they didnt want to do but were somehow incapable of saying no to

They were then provided with something quite different to what they'd been shown, but far more in keeping with what you get for £500 for all day

They then told her they were happy with the work (shes shown screenshots to that effect) , then changed their minds and complained and she may or may not have told them to f***off - accounts vary

They sued (via money claim) and the judge ordered a return of the fees - alledgedly at the same time she also sued them and won for some manner of fraud theyalledgedly committed in the pepration of their case

End of the day if they are telling the truth then she is guilty of misrepresntation , but they are also guilty of being daft to the point of stupidity in not researching what they were buying, and accepting dubious bonfides at face value without thinking about whether the deal was too good to be true.

Its like the numpties who fall for 419 scams - sure the scammers are utlimately to blame, but the people who fall for them are pretty f*****g daft to be taken in

but hey this is the 21st century , no one accepts personal responsibility for any decision they make anymore...
 
Added to which - a quick google shows that if you search for 'wedding photography leeds' the top 5 hits are all charging arround or over £1k for coverage from prep to the first dance, - even that ammount of research is sufficient to tell you that £500 from prep to end of evening is excessively cheap (in fact on the first page only two togs are charging less than a grand and one of those is 499 for two hours coverage, while the other is £649 for Aob to FD )
 
Added to which - a quick google shows that if you search for 'wedding photography leeds' the top 5 hits are all charging arround or over £1k for coverage from prep to the first dance, - even that ammount of research is sufficient to tell you that £500 from prep to end of evening is excessively cheap (in fact on the first page only two togs are charging less than a grand and one of those is 499 for two hours coverage, while the other is £649 for Aob to FD )

Bit of a biased conclusion there I'd say. The more successful, more expensive togs are likely to have better google rankings.

Google for "cheap wedding photography leeds" and the top hit charges £350 for their basic package and £550 for their premium (prep to first dance). Their portfolio looks ok for that price as well. Other hits on the first page have £550 for "medium day" and also look reasonable.

As I keep saying, £500 isn't a case of immediate alarm bells if the portfolio looks good.
 
Ive lost count of the number of times ive already explained this point but once again

Many thanks. :D

They were told she was a pro not a student, and believed her despitethe rock bottom prices she was charging

If they researched and discovered most were charging £1k but this person was charging £500 for similar quality then I fail to see why they should be alarmed. They were shown proof of her ability via her website. In my industry prices vary a hell of a lot more than 100%. They were assured she could provide what they wanted for a very reasonable price but the assurances were based upon fraudulent proof, images which were not her's. Anyone could have fallen for that one, especially in the middle of planning something like a wedding.

They were shown examples of her work which alledgedly werent hers - and alledgedly had other peoples water marks on which they somehow didn't notice

In the heat of the moment, planning an emotional wedding and not being professional wedding planners, a water mark is easily missed.

Based upon pitch and proof they were quoted an insanely low price, which didnt ring any alarm bells presumably because they didnt do any research into what they were buying or what the going rate was

The quote of £500 was half the price you suggest to be the norm in your post below. That's not "insanely" low, it's a 50% discount.

They accepted the price based on what they'd been shown , and paid it in full despite her not having confirmed her availability (and then didnt do anything about the fact that she disapeared until the night before the wedding)

If the photographer could not and did not confirm her availability, how come she took payment and provided the couple with payment details so they could pay in the first place? Surely you only take the payment once you've confirmed and if she wasn't available that day then why on earth would she be pitching for the assignment in the first place?

On the day of the shoot she made them / persuaded them to go for a woodland walk that they didnt want to do but were somehow incapable of saying no to

No, she didn't persuade "them". She persuaded the bride and one other family member to go. The groom was too disabled to go so he waited for them for half an hour at the venue.

They were then provided with something quite different to what they'd been shown, but far more in keeping with what you get for £500 for all day

That's tosh and you know it. How on earth are they supposed to know what to expect for £500? I'll bet you 20 bucks and my left nut that if you go ask 100 people in the high street in Leeds how much they think they'd be expected to pay for a wedding photographer for the day, most wouldn't have a clue and in many areas £500 would be considered on the high side.

They then told her they were happy with the work (shes shown screenshots to that effect) ,

No they didn't and here's where you clearly show you have an agenda. They were given a single screenshot with tiny composite images. I often look at the images on the screen on my X-T1 and think: "WOW! That looks a cracker!!" Then I port it onto my Mac and the ruddy thing is about as bad as it gets! They effectively said the thumbnails provided looked great. They probably did! That doesn't mean the final images were in any way great and from the evidence provided it's clear they weren't!

then changed their minds and complained and she may or may not have told them to f***off - accounts vary

No, they saw the full size images and like I do very often, realised they were useless.

They sued (via money claim) and the judge ordered a return of the fees - alledgedly at the same time she also sued them and won for some manner of fraud theyalledgedly committed in the pepration of their case

Again, no. I didn't read that the counter case was successful at all and seemed utterly groundless to me.

End of the day if they are telling the truth then she is guilty of misrepresntation , but they are also guilty of being daft to the point of stupidity in not researching what they were buying, and accepting dubious bonfides at face value without thinking about whether the deal was too good to be true.

They've already been found to have been telling the truth. That's what judges are for and frankly, she's guilty of a whole lot more than misrepresentation and lucky to get away with just re-imbursement as far as I'm concerned.

Its like the numpties who fall for 419 scams - sure the scammers are utlimately to blame, but the people who fall for them are pretty f*****g daft to be taken in

No, sometimes people are simply too trusting. The fact that they can't be is not an indictment of them but of the society we now live in, which includes those who try to support the perpetrators instead of the victims.

but hey this is the 21st century , no one accepts personal responsibility for any decision they make anymore...

No, apparently not; not even the decision to rip someone off and by your rhetoric you heartily support them.
 
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I really can't understand the people here suggesting that for £500 you should expect rubbish photos.
To some people £500 is an awful lot of money and there must be a very large market for wedding photography in that price bracket. I'm sure there are many many people that would bite your hand off to earn £500 for a day's work and some editing afterward.

Yes you will always get the people that will flash the cash because they can and because they think more expensive automatically means better quality and I'm sure there are many wedding togs here that supply that market, but just because you are not privileged enough to be able to afford a £2k photographer shouldn't mean you only get rubbish snap shots.

Any photographer servicing the cheaper end of the market should still be providing a decent quality photograph.

Certainly when we got married we couldn't afford any photographer and all of our photos were don't by friends and family. They are not £2k pro tog photos but they are still great memories and far better quality than the handful that were shown with this story.
 
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I really can't understand the people here suggesting that for £500 you should expect rubbish photos.
To some people £500 is an awful lot of money and there must be a very large market for wedding photography in that price bracket. I'm sure there are many many people that would bite your hand off to earn £500 for a day's work and some editing afterward.

Yes you will always get the people that will flash the cash because they can and because they think more expensive automatically means better quality and I'm sure there are many wedding togs here that supply that market, but just because you are not privileged enough to be able to afford a £2k photographer shouldn't mean you only get rubbish snap shots.

Any photographer servicing the cheaper end of the market should still be providing a decent quality photograph.

Certainly when we got married we couldn't afford any photographer and all of our photos were don't by friends and family. They are not £2k pro tog photos but they are still great memories and far better quality than the handful that were shown with this story.

Quite!
 
In each of the last 3 years I've booked a short wedding for £500 or thereabouts, it's not an 'alarm bells' price.

In fact I'd argue given the growing number of 'bottom feeders' up north, it's closer to 'average spend' than most wedding photographers would like to admit.

In fact less than 30 miles from Leeds and the average headline price is around £800 and there's some very good work around that price.
 
That's one of about 5 that I've seen so far. There were two on wordpress.


Not only crap, but not her images either. Most I've found on Pinterest, and one still has the author's watermark on it. If you're gonna misuse someone else's image, and least TRY to pass it off as your own. She's even crap at being crap.
 
That's not the website that they were shown and it's only recently appeared in Google searches.


And? It's terrible.... and it's full of images being passed off as her own when they're clearly not. This is indicative of the person being discussed. It's not looking great for her credibility, is it?
 
They were shown examples of her work which alledgedly werent hers - and alledgedly had other peoples water marks on which they somehow didnt notice

No they weren't. They were shown a decent, well laid out website with more than adequate images (that weren't watermarked.


They were then provided with something quite different to what they'd been shown, but far more in keeping with what you get for £500 for all day

And you know that how?

They then told her they were happy with the work (shes shown screenshots to that effect) , then changed their minds and complained and she may or may not have told them to f***off - accounts vary

They commented on a few preview shots, not the entire set.


I hope to God you never get conned. On the other hand, maybe karma will bite you firmly in the posterior.
 
And? It's terrible.... and it's full of images being passed off as her own when they're clearly not. This is indicative of the person being discussed. It's not looking great for her credibility, is it?


As I've said a few times now, her business site, which was taken offline two days ago, was decently presented, had at least 3 complete weddings and a blog referencing 10 done last year.

The site that you've referred to is immaterial.
 
Not sure why you have no sympathy, not everyone has the either the budget for or the intelligence to choose a decent wedding photographer.
Would you have sympathy if a 90 year old employed an incompetent plumber?

If they'd paid a price so much lower than expected, and knew that it was a "student" plumber, then I'd find it more difficult to be sympathetic. Or am I supposed to be more sympathetic because they're 90? Are you saying being old means you're stupid or something, and therefore it's excusable? They weren't BORN 90 years old, and so far as I know, they'd have had a life time's experience of dealing with plumbers, as most of us have. I fail to see what age has to do with it, unless you're suggesting being 90 makes you stupid.


Maybe they have learning difficulties, how can we know their story?

Do you seriously think the tabloid press would have let that slip? You reckon a Daily Mail sub-editor would have passed up the chance to write "Hard faced student rips off newly weds with learning difficulties"? Really?

They didn't... and you're inventing scenarios for no appreciable reason.


At least one person on here has posted that the photos on her website weren't bad

You say that as if we should be saying they're not bad. The ones I've seen on her own website, we crap. Have you missed the part about the images on her pulled website not actually being hers? I think you did.


If you pass yourself off as being able to do a job then you should be able to work to a standard surely or pay the money back? Simple

Errr.. yes... now you're agreeing with me... which is confusing.
 
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