D500

For the little it's worth a rep at the photo show said it was going to be a world wide release, and some of the US retail sites are indicating Apr 21. Dunno if that means release from the distributor or retail outlets.
 
xmh said:
For the little it's worth a rep at the photo show said it was going to be a world wide release, and some of the US retail sites are indicating Apr 21. Dunno if that means release from the distributor or retail outlets.
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If Amazon is an indication its release from retailers.
 
snerkler said:
They do look good, but I always take these things with a pinch of salt. Would be great if ISO performance was this good though.
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I'm still not sure if the high ISO is going to be in real life when in low light situations. I can't see it being as good as everyone says it will be otherwise it's going to kill off full frame. Tests like these when there is plenty of light to have a good shutter speed even at ISO100 don't really test it, it's when you are in conditions that f2.8, 1/50 and ISO 3200 or 6400 were the real tests are.

Why do all of the dpreview.com sample images say 1/10,000sec shutter speed on them, doesn't the D500 only go up to 1/8,000sec? DoF seems to be changing so aperture must be changing but 13 stops from ISO50 to ISO100k is a lot of aperture changes (f1.4 to f22 is 9 stops), the shutter speed must be changing but not reporting properly on that beta model.

htid said:
Well apparently due out next Thursday so I'll have mine by Friday and will see how it is in real life situations!
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It will be interesting to see how it does fair in real life when you do get it, it been a long time coming even before these delays.
 
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rob-nikon said:
It will be interesting to see how it does fair in real life when you do get it, it been a long time coming even before these delays.
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Yeah I look forward to testing it but the trouble is if you didn't see my thread last month, I was burgled and all my gear was stolen. I've only bought one lens back and that's in for repair so I'll have a body and no lens! I can borrow a friend's Sigma 18-35 1.8 for testing but wanted to see how it stands up when birding!
 
Quite simply - what will the noise be like at ISO 2000 on a cropped image - (OK it depends how much that it is cropped), but you get my meaning, I hope
 
BillN_33 said:
Quite simply - what will the noise be like at ISO 2000 on a cropped image - (OK it depends how much that it is cropped), but you get my meaning, I hope
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Anything usable above 800 at 100% crop I'll take as that will be an advantage over what I find acceptable on a d7200. Are you thinking of getting one if the noise is good, or sticking with your d810?
 
htid said:
Anything usable above 800 at 100% crop I'll take as that will be an advantage over what I find acceptable on a d7200. Are you thinking of getting one if the noise is good, or sticking with your d810?
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I still don't think that you can beat the D750 .......... I am shooting them side by side .......... but it is early days for my views, (and ability) with the D810 ... but the D750 is such an easy camera to use
 
BillN_33 said:
I still don't think that you can beat the D750 .......... I am shooting them side by side .......... but it is early days for my views, (and ability) with the D810 ... but the D750 is such an easy camera to use
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But neither have the crop factor or 10fps ;)
 
htid said:
But neither have the crop factor or 10fps ;)
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The crop is just an illusion - it is a digital crop - DX is just a smaller sensor than FX, run the D750 in DX mode if that is what you want

The card is as important as what the camera can do - I'm not too sure if I ever use 5 fps never mind 10
 
Whether it's only the equivalent or not, if I can get as good a quality photo but closer as someone on fx from the same distance with the same lens, it doesn't matter does it?
 
htid said:
Whether it's only the equivalent or not, if I can get as good a quality photo but closer as someone on fx from the same distance with the same lens, it doesn't matter does it?
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You do not get closer with a DX - you just crop the FX image
 
By closer I mean I get the bird bigger in this frame. On a 20mp fx and DX body, the DX will obviously produce an image that has more pixels from top to bottom of a bird than the fx unless I'm missing something?
 
htid said:
By closer I mean I get the bird bigger in this frame. On a 20mp fx and DX body, the DX will obviously produce an image that has more pixels from top to bottom of a bird than the fx unless I'm missing something?
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you would have to do the maths - pixels on an image - a Nikon 1 with the image filling the frame, versus a cropped DX and a cropped FX - from the same distance and cropped to the same size

but then you have to consider the IQ and noise
 
BillN_33 said:
The crop is just an illusion - it is a digital crop - DX is just a smaller sensor than FX, run the D750 in DX mode if that is what you want

The card is as important as what the camera can do - I'm not too sure if I ever use 5 fps never mind 10
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D750 DX mode is only 10mp compared with 21mp of the D500. DX mode on D750 is essentially a digital crop, DX cameras are not a digital crop, they are fully optical just using a smaller part of the image circle.
 
BillN_33 said:
you would have to do the maths - pixels on an image - a Nikon 1 with the image filling the frame, versus a cropped DX and a cropped FX - from the same distance and cropped to the same size

but then you have to consider the IQ and noise
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I wouldn't know how to work that out, my maths is rubbish! But either way if you're happy with what you have and get images you're happy with, there's no more to it :)
 
snerkler said:
D750 DX mode is only 10mp compared with 21mp of the D500. DX mode on D750 is essentially a digital crop, DX cameras are not a digital crop, they are fully optical just using a smaller part of the image circle.
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maybe I should have said that DX is a crop of a digital FX sensor
 
BillN_33 said:
maybe I should have said that DX is a crop of a digital FX sensor
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I don't think it's that either, that just sounds like you cut the middle bit of an FX sensor out to make a DX sensor :p

DX is a crop of a 35mm/FF image circle.
 
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snerkler said:
I don't think it's that either, that just sounds like you cut the middle bit of an FX sensor out to make a DX sensor :p

DX is a crop of a 35mm/FF image circle.
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I stick with what I said - basically that DX does not give you extra reach, or get you nearer, it is illusion - a DX sensor is just smaller than an FX sensor and is therefore a crop of an FX sensor

IQ, DR and noise are other considerations
 
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BillN_33 said:
I stick with what I said - basically that DX does not give you extra reach, or get you nearer, it is illusion - a DX sensor is just smaller than an FX sensor and is therefore a crop of an FX sensor

IQ, DR and noise are other considerations
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I don't disagree with the extra reach comment per se, it just gives the effect of extra reach through cropping the image circle and essentially changing the field of view. It's the way you word it that's wrong/misleading :p It's not an illusion though ;)
 
snerkler said:
I don't disagree with the extra reach comment per se, it just gives the effect of extra reach through cropping the image circle and essentially changing the field of view. It's the way you word it that's wrong/misleading :p It's not an illusion though ;)
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maybe I did not explain it properly, which is not unusual for me

I have used FX and DX side by side - I shoot mainly small birds and therefore have to crop
I always preferred the FX cropped images to the DX images - (both cropped down to the same size)

I have had the D300, and the D7xxx's up to the D7200

and the D700, D750 and D810, (just new to me last week)

I sold my D7200 last week and now use the D750 and D810 alongside each other

The D500 may be the best ever DX camera and it may have brought the noise and DR levels to FX norms ......... but what I am saying is that DX does not give you extra reach, that's the illusion, (it is often said that it does give you extra reach nor does it turn your 300mm lens into a 450mm lens) .......... DX it is just the equivalent of a cropped FX image - when taken from the same distance

No big issue, that's just the way I see it - I also use a Nikon 1 and FT-1
 
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BillN_33 said:
maybe I did not explain it properly, which is not unusual for me

I have used FX and DX side by side - I shoot mainly small birds and therefore have to crop
I always preferred the FX cropped images to the DX images - (both cropped down to the same size) - I often compared them FX and DX cropped down to the same size and taken from the same distance at the same time

I have had the D300, and the D7xxx's up to the D7200

and the D700, D750 and D810, (just new to me last week)

The D500 may be the best ever DX camera and it may have brought the noise and DR levels to FX norms ......... but what I am saying is that DX does not give you extra reach, that's the illusion, (it is often said that it does give you extra reach nor does it turn your 300mm lens into a 450mm lens) .......... DX it is just the equivalent of a cropped FX image - when taken from the same distance

No big issue, that's just the way I see it - I also use a Nikon 1 and FT-1
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Interesting results. A cropped FX image should always be better than a cropped DX image all things considered equal. But if you're stood in the same place shooting a bird at distance for example, I would have thought the DX would give the better image as the bird will fill more of the frame and so each part of the bird is made up of more pixels and therefore show more detail.

But you've done the test and I haven't so will accept your results unless proven otherwise (y) ;)

And no a DX does not make a 300mm lens a 450mm lens, but it does give the same field of view and image as a 450mm lens (y)
 
Technically a DX body will not get you more reach but visually it will get more subject image in the frame than will an FX body, all things being equal, which is why DX is liked by many wildlife photographers and why it is expected that the D500 will be a winner.
Whether an FX body in DX mode can do the same will obviously depend on the body used ... 36mp D8xx gives around 15mp in DX and the 16mp D4S IIRC gets you down to around 6mp in DX ... compare both with a D7200 at 24mp or the D500 at 20mp and there is certainly a benefit to be had with DX :)
 
gramps said:
Whether an FX body in DX mode can do the same will obviously depend on the body used ... 36mp D8xx gives around 15mp in DX and the 16mp D4S IIRC gets you down to around 6mp in DX ... compare both with a D7200 at 24mp or the D500 at 20mp and there is certainly a benefit to be had with DX :)
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I have never seen this Roger except for a few instances, and the same goes with the Nikon V1 + FT-1 which gets even more of the subject in the viewfinder than a DX body
 
BillN_33 said:
I have never seen this Roger except for a few instances, and the same goes with the Nikon V1 + FT-1 which gets even more of the subject in the viewfinder than a DX body
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I've used the D4S in DX mode and would much have preferred to have used the D7200, (not available at the time) ... 6mp verses 24mp, no contest. :)
 
BillN_33 said:
I have never seen this Roger except for a few instances, and the same goes with the Nikon V1 + FT-1 which gets even more of the subject in the viewfinder than a DX body
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But it's a fact that if we stand at the same distance and use the same lens, I on a crop body will get more pixels on the bird than you. Surely that's what we want since this gives a detailed image? So at 100% crop on both, I'll have a more detailed image than you and that's the aim right? Unless you're filling the frame with your d810, in which case the IQ there would kick the crop sensor out of the water.
 
gramps said:
I've used the D4S in DX mode and would much have preferred to have used the D7200, (not available at the time) ... 6mp verses 24mp, no contest. :)
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I never use FX in DX mode I just crop the FX image

htid said:
But it's a fact that if we stand at the same distance and use the same lens, I on a crop body will get more pixels on the bird than you. Surely that's what we want since this gives a detailed image? So at 100% crop on both, I'll have a more detailed image than you and that's the aim right? Unless you're filling the frame with your d810, in which case the IQ there would kick the crop sensor out of the water.
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even if you have more pixels on the same, (like for like) image it is the IQ that counts, which is influenced by factors other than pixel count, e.g.. pixel size and therefore noise at higher ISO levels

I suppose with most of my bird shots I get as near as I can and seldom take (very) distance shots

as I said in my posts "Quite simply - what will the noise be like at ISO 2000, (and above) on a cropped (D500) image - (OK it depends how much that it is cropped), but you get my meaning, I hope"

I have many good, (IMHO), images with the D7200 - some of them are here

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/d7200-for-sale-bought-hdew-dec-2015-sold.620275/

but I would have applied more (selective), NR to these images than I would my D750 images
 
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BillN_33 said:
I never use FX in DX mode I just crop the FX image



even if you have more pixels on the same, (like for like) image it is the IQ that counts, which is influenced by factors other than pixel count, e.g.. pixel size and therefore noise at higher ISO levels

I suppose with most of my bird shots I get as near as I can and seldom take (very) distance shots

as I said in my posts "Quite simply - what will the noise be like at ISO 2000, (and above) on a cropped (D500) image - (OK it depends how much that it is cropped), but you get my meaning, I hope"

I have many good, (IMHO), images with the D7200 - some of them are here

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/d7200-for-sale-bought-hdew-dec-2015-sold.620275/

but I would have applied more (selective), NR to these images than I would my D750 images
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Fair enough if you get closer then it's a moot point. It would be interesting to do a test had you not sold your d7200. Obviously the d750 has 15mp at dx size and the d7200 24mp. If you weren't able to get close enough with the d750, you'd have to crop. Would the noise on a bigger crop on the 15mp 750 show less than no crop/small crop on a 7200. *goes to see if there are any tests online*
 
htid said:
Fair enough if you get closer then it's a moot point. It would be interesting to do a test had you not sold your d7200. Obviously the d750 has 15mp at dx size and the d7200 24mp. If you weren't able to get close enough with the d750, you'd have to crop. Would the noise on a bigger crop on the 15mp 750 show less than no crop/small crop on a 7200. *goes to see if there are any tests online*
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D750 is 10mp in DX ;)
 
htid said:
Fair enough if you get closer then it's a moot point. It would be interesting to do a test had you not sold your d7200. Obviously the d750 has 15mp at dx size and the d7200 24mp. If you weren't able to get close enough with the d750, you'd have to crop. Would the noise on a bigger crop on the 15mp 750 show less than no crop/small crop on a 7200. *goes to see if there are any tests online*
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I did quite a lot of comparison shots comparing the D750 and D7200 - noise on small bird crops was what did it for me
 
snerkler said:
D750 is 10mp in DX ;)
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I don't use DX - I crop FX - doesn't it depend on how near you are - I get quite near to lots of my "prey"

I need good ISO performance most of the time, because of the needed shutter speed

did you look at the D7200 images in the link
 
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snerkler said:
D750 is 10mp in DX ;)
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I swear I read it was 15mp somewhere and thought "that can't be right as it's only 24 on FX and the d810 at 36mp has a dx mode of 16!".

BillN_33 said:
I don't use DX - I crop FX - doesn't it depend on how near you are - I get quite near to lots of my "prey"

I need good ISO performance most of the time, because of the needed shutter speed

did you look at the D7200 images in the link
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Cropping FX is fine, but if you're not close, obviously you'll need to crop more. To get the same effective focal length from the d750 you'd have to crop to 3936 x 2624px whereas the d7200 would give you a 6000 x 4000px image. If you tested and you were happy with the d750 cropped over the d7200 uncropped, then that's fine :) I just can't imagine that a 3936 x 2624px image from an FX camera can have as good an IQ as a 6000 x 4000px image from a DX (up to a certain ISO...if you're going over say 2000 ISO I'm sure the smaller d750 image would win).
 
I think what Bill is trying to convey, with bird photography you are nearly always cropping the images. As an example, when cropping down to 2500 x 1500 or whatever, the images are cleaner form a FX camera than a DX camera. It's what I have also found from switching from the D7000, D7100 to D750. It's bit harder for me to tell on my current D810 as I am using a different lens to the 300mm f4 AFS lens I had on D7100 and D750.
 
htid said:
I swear I read it was 15mp somewhere and thought "that can't be right as it's only 24 on FX and the d810 at 36mp has a dx mode of 16!".
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Page 118 of the manual shows that DX mode is 3936 x 2624 which is 10.3MP.


BillN_33 said:
I don't use DX - I crop FX - doesn't it depend on how near you are - I get quite near to lots of my "prey"

did you look at the D7200 images in the link
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Distance doesn't come into it, with a FF camera to crop FX to DX size you reduce each side by (approximately) 1.5 so 6016 x 4016 becomes 3936 x 2624 regardless of whether you are 1m away or 100m away, and it's the same whether you do this in camera (ie using DX mode) or crop to DX frame in post.

No I didn't, which link was that?
 
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