D500

redhed17 said:
Do you not agree that the images in the link compare well to each other?
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I only looked at the one posted and thought that it cannot be possible - that's why I said that it cannot be that bad
 
htid said:
Sorry Bill, I re-read my comment and I realise it came across rather bluntly which was not my intention at all! Apologies for that.

My point does stand though, the d500 has better AF (as talked about by quite a lot of people on DPR who have both cameras), faster fps (that's just a fact) and judging by the image comparison in the link I gave, near identical noise (which i'm still unsure about given the other pictures I showed!). Believe me, I have nothing against the d810 and was on the fence as to whether to get that or the d500. I may even still go for a d810 if the d500 is as bad as I've seen at lower ISO, but I would like the better AF and faster fps, though I'm not prepared to sacrifice IQ that much (as seen on the d500 photos).

As someone who has gone from a d7200 to a d810, what are your opinions about the noise (both at 100%)?
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I did not mean to be blunt Chris either

D7200 v D750 v D810 and now D500................... Nikon will produce a load of specs comparing everything possible - I think that you have to decide what is really important to you and if 1fps or a few mps really matter

all three cameras are very good and have useful specs

The D7200 is £600 .. the D750 is £1,200 the other two are nearer £1,800.......... and I think that it is important to try to decide why this is and again what is important to you - build quality, MP's, fps or whatever, depending on what you shoot and how you shoot it

Taking all into consideration, for me the D750 would be first, then the D810 (with both you have 2 cameras in 1 if you want to use DX and FX, file sizes and MP's - chose whatever mode to meet the occasion - landscapes at FX - small birds on sticks at DX - discounting price I would pick the D810, but the D750 clearly wins on price.

Because I take mainly "birds on sticks" all the D7xxx were too noisy for me and because I travel a lot I found the D700 and now the D810 just more robust...... you can "throw" them about a little more, (not literally of course)

I cannot fault the IQ generally on the D750 and D810 even for big crops, but I found the D7200 just too noisy - (even though there is this argument and stats that says at the same "this and that" the D7200 will be the same or better - personally did not find it so)

of course you can get some very good images from the D7200, many on here do and I have got loads that I am really pleased with, I just found the D750 far more consistent and flexible.

I always try to post fair images showing good and bad and I have recently done this for the D810.

Because it is DX, I expect the D500 to follow the same path as the D7200 noise-wise and that is my main concern ...... but also I do not want to be restricted with the size of the DX sensor - yesterday I took a few shots of a Jay - the D810 was set in DX mode - I missed half the bird and only got a head shot ......

but the D500 looks really well built - maybe similar to the D810?

I am not sure that the increased pixel density of the DX sensors will suit bird photographers who crop tightly ........ only real life example will decide this

(as far as AF is concerned - it depends - I use single cell a lot and maybe a small group - of course at f4 all is good - but you have to "hit the spot" or all cameras will hunt - they are not human - they just compare this and that and throw the results back at you - sometimes they just miss the target and hit the next object - not like a MF camera were you decide what to focus on)

I suppose I am also surprised at Nikon as a thought that a few years ago Nikon had decided not to replace the D300 or produce a pro DX body - I felt that it was - for DX follow the D7200 route and for pro buy an FX and switch into DX mode, if you wanted to shoot DX - the D500 to my mine is a marketing decision but I would think that it will turn out to be a good camera, after all it is a Nikon

just my views - I am a gear nut - but as they say "all that gear and no idea"
 
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It doesn't surprise me that the D500 is roughly equivalent to the D810 DX in ISO noise... It's a generation newer with newer processing (filtering/AD conversion) and I understand that they've made some (slight) improvements to the sensor fill capability.
 
htid said:
OK there must be something wrong here...is Flickr reading the exif properly?? Not my photo again but apparently this is ISO 640...look at the water! It's like ISO 51,000 or something!! (view it 100% in flickr)

*edit* hang on, this is a D7200 shot I've just realised...this guy must be doing some pretty bad processing if this is what he's getting at ISO 640 on a d7200!
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Chris, you shouldn't be posting other peoples images for crit ... they haven't given their permission for it. :)
 
gramps said:
Chris, you shouldn't be posting other peoples images for crit ... they haven't given their permission for it. :)
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Well said.
 
gramps said:
Chris, you shouldn't be posting other peoples images for crit ... they haven't given their permission for it. :)
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Sorry is it against the rules? I'll remove if so. But tbh I'm not critting the image as its a good shot, it's just the noise which is possibly beyond his control.
 
htid said:
Sorry is it against the rules? I'll remove if so. But tbh I'm not critting the image as its a good shot, it's just the noise which is possibly beyond his control.
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See post 756 :)
 
I've removed the images now (or rather I removed one and a mod removed the other. Whoever removed it thanks but should I have been notified of that because I wasn't? Just so I'd have known not to do it again)
 
gramps said:
See post 756 :)
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Just noticed it when I went back to remove...whoops. But how are we supposed to discuss equipment if we can't show images that have problems? It seems a bit silly to me...now I have no way of showing what I wanted to get across.

*edit* also he posted a link to his photos on a public domain and therefore shared them, so I'm curious what the rules are on that? For example if I'd posted that photo into his thread on DPR I'm sure there would be no issue. I'm genuinely wondering, not trying to cause problems. Is there a legal reason? Happy for a mod to PM me to not derail thread.
 
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htid said:
Just noticed it when I went back to remove...whoops. But how are we supposed to discuss equipment if we can't show images that have problems? It seems a bit silly to me...now I have no way of showing what I wanted to get across.
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You can post a link but not the image, in fairness though 'personal' images on Flickr aren't a good test as there are so many variables in skill ... better IMO to link to review images posted for the purpose of making a statement about the camera.
 
htid said:
What SD are you using? I will use 14 bit raw but will never need 200 shots I'm sure.

How are you finding noise? I'm seeing shots on DPR at ISO 500 that look ridiculously noisy! The sort of noise I'd expect on my d7200 at ISO 2000 :/ If they're indicative of how the d500 performs at lower ISOs, I'm not sure I'm keeping it!

Mod edit Please don't use other peoples images for critic,
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San disk Extreme PRO 64GB SDXC : UHS II : had a few read errs when reviewiing, might have been me trying to review before cam had finished writing to card.
Lexar professional 1000x 32GB SDHC : UHS II as above
San disk extreme pro 32GB SDHC UHS I No problems at all. but not had time to test as above .
Lexar xqd 2933x on order.

Noise :
Here's a couple of nef's @ ISO 800 D500 : Nikon 200-500mm lens, f5.6 -1.3 exposure comp(trying not blow the high lights on previous shots and forgot to reset/change )overcast and cloudy at the time.
http://www.jerryhawker.uk/nef/Downloads.zip

AF best/fastest I have used so far. For BIF's it picks up target and locks on. Never had any luck with Swift's or the like before, but it was picking them up and locking on during a rain storm so there's hope.

I wanted the camera for the AF and FPS and so far I'm pleased, I think the noise is a little better than the D7200. Any noise does seem to clean up well in PP. I have not tried jpg's at all.
 
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gramps said:
You can post a link but not the image, in fairness though 'personal' images on Flickr aren't a good test as there are so many variables in skill ... better IMO to link to review images posted for the purpose of making a statement about the camera.
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You are correct. The guy gave me the raw file and it's nowhere NEAR as noisy as his edit. He says he likes to go to town on the sharpening which is clearly what he'd done there. The original looks good for ISO 800.
 
xmh said:
San disk Extreme PRO 64GB SDXC : UHS II : had a few read errs when reviewiing, might have been me trying to review before cam had finished writing to card.
Lexar professional 1000x 32GB SDHC : UHS II as above
San disk extreme pro 32GB SDHC UHS I No problems at all. but not had time to test as above .
Lexar xqd 2933x on order.

Noise :
Here's a couple of nef's @ ISO 800 D500 : Nikon 200-500mm lens, f5.6 -1.3 exposure comp(trying not blow the high lights on previous shots and forgot to reset/change )overcast and cloudy at the time.
http://www.jerryhawker.uk/nef/Downloads.zip

AF best/fastest I have used so far. For BIF's it picks up target and locks on. Never had any luck with Swift's or the like before, but it was picking them up and locking on during a rain storm so there's hope.

I wanted the camera for the AF and FPS and so far I'm pleased, I think the noise is a little better than the D7200. Any noise does seem to clean up well in PP. I have not tried jpg's at all.
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They're much better and what I'd expected, thanks for sharing :)
 
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Thom Hogan is collecting information about problems with the D500 and requesting folk to send in details of their issues ... battery draining and incompatibility, card issues, settings issues all being discussed. Seems like another Nikon new release that isn't without its controversy!
 
gramps said:
Thom Hogan is collecting information about problems with the D500 and requesting folk to send in details of their issues ... battery draining and incompatibility, card issues, settings issues all being discussed. Seems like another Nikon new release that isn't without its controversy!
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I reckon that they do it on purpose to get more publicity

any problems with the D5?
 
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BillN_33 said:
any problems with the D5?
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He's got a whole blog running on both but I haven't read it all as I am still to be convinced that the D500 would benefit me ... and I'm not going to be spending £5k on a camera any more :)
 
gramps said:
He's got a whole blog running on both but I haven't read it all as I am still to be convinced that the D500 would benefit me ... and I'm not going to be spending £5k on a camera any more :)
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Morning Roger

I can see the attractions of the D7200 ....... all we need for birds is a good basic camera, good ISO, AF etc., ..... I hope that when they produce the D7300 they stick to improving just the basics and not just add "bells and whistles" which only 1% of users will use

I think that I will stick with the D810, mainly on the tripod for birds and the D750 with the 300PF + TC's as a hand held walk around - for me the D7200 was good but the images just needed more "noise" processing versus the D750 and D810 ........... I do not see any purpose in buying a DX camera apart from the cost, just IMHO
 
BillN_33 said:
I do not see any purpose in buying a DX camera apart from the cost, just IMHO
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For me it's just the added 1.5x for birds/wildlife, when not needed the D810 gives me everything I need :)
 
gramps said:
For me it's just the added 1.5x for birds/wildlife, when not needed the D810 gives me everything I need :)
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without wanting to brag or anything like that I feel that when in a stationary position with a set up on a tripod I need another camera/body to use hand held
 
BillN_33 said:
without wanting to brag or anything like that I feel that when in a stationary position with a set up on a tripod I need another camera/body to use hand held
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I'm the same, I could never comfortably hand-hold my 500 f4 so always use it on a tripod (or beanbag) but it then lacks the manoeuvrability of the 300 PF ... sometimes I take both but more often than not it is either one or the other for sheer convenience. My ideal would be a 500 f4 PF :)
 
I'm yet to try my D500 as I still don't have my lens. From what I've read there do seem to be some issues and the AF Fine Tune isn't as good as I'd hoped for, but the AF sounds like the best Nikon have ever produced (apart from the D5). Noise seems to vary, some people getting loads and others showing there's no difference between that and the D7200. To be honest, I think the D7200 is a cracking camera and the D500 doesn't justify the price difference, the only reason I'm getting one is because work are paying for it. I don't plan to use snapbridge or wifi etc so hoping battery drain won't be an issue.

There's a thread on DPR about the images being softer than the D7200 which worries me, but some users are reporting it and others saying it's equally as sharp as the D7200 so I'm looking forward to testing them side by side when I get my lens back.
 
htid said:
I don't plan to use snapbridge or wifi etc so hoping battery drain won't be an issue.
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Apparently 'Bluetooth ON when switched off' is the default and suspected of causing battery drain for some ... needs to be switched to off, unless of course if you need it on :thinking:
 
gramps said:
I'm the same, I could never comfortably hand-hold my 500 f4 so always use it on a tripod (or beanbag) but it then lacks the manoeuvrability of the 300 PF ... sometimes I take both but more often than not it is either one or the other for sheer convenience. My ideal would be a 500 f4 PF :)
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That's why I bought the peak design clip fitted to left shoulder strap with D7200 and 300PF attached ready to unclip and shoot quickly or when at location can still use it while 500 on tripod
 
AdamSi said:
That's why I bought the peak design clip fitted to left shoulder strap with D7200 and 300PF attached ready to unclip and shoot quickly or when at location can still use it while 500 on tripod
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I'm normally with the 300 PF and body on a Q-Strap over left shoulder and tripod with 500 and body resting on left shoulder ... sometimes I walk with a lean! :D
 
gramps said:
You wonder how much is camera error and how much is new user error :)
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If you fancy a read... http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3999463

People are saying they've taken the same shots before on a d7200 or d750 and they were definitely sharper than with the d500. Who knows though, there's talk of shutter vibration at 10fps and also of the software not being fully calibrated to work with the images by Adobe etc. The jury is still out, but I've seen sharp photos on that thread which suggest the camera isn't incapable of sharp shots. I wonder if it could be related to certain batches? Who knows...only time will tell.
 
htid said:
If you fancy a read... http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3999463

People are saying they've taken the same shots before on a d7200 or d750 and they were definitely sharper than with the d500. Who knows though, there's talk of shutter vibration at 10fps and also of the software not being fully calibrated to work with the images by Adobe etc. The jury is still out, but I've seen sharp photos on that thread which suggest the camera isn't incapable of sharp shots. I wonder if it could be related to certain batches? Who knows...only time will tell.
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I see Thom Hogan is saying that the 1st batch, worldwide, amounted to no more than 15,000 units ... seems very surprising if true, unless Nikon is 'testing the waters'.
 
gramps said:
For me it's just the added 1.5x for birds/wildlife, when not needed the D810 gives me everything I need :)
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But cropping/ using the DX mode with the D810 would yield similar (maybe even better results) to a DX, and still giving a very acceptable 15.4mp. I personally don't see the point in a DX body as well if you have the D810, unless it's purely to do with framing? Of course, we all have GAS that has to be quenched :p
 
snerkler said:
But cropping/ using the DX mode with the D810 would yield similar (maybe even better results) to a DX, and still giving a very acceptable 15.4mp. I personally don't see the point in a DX body as well if you have the D810, unless it's purely to do with framing? Of course, we all have GAS that has to be quenched :p
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No it isn't the same, figures wide there isn't much difference between 15.4 and 24mp but in practice there is ... and it makes a difference in the viewfinder (and hence focus point) when shooting anything at distance. :)
 
gramps said:
No it isn't the same, figures wide there isn't much difference between 15.4 and 24mp but in practice there is ... and it makes a difference in the viewfinder (and hence focus point) when shooting anything at distance. :)
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Yeah that's what I meant with framing, what you see in the viewfinder ;) I had 'only' 16mp with my m4/3 and found it perfectly adequate but I guess we're all different ;) If I had the cash I would like the D500 to complement my D750, the D750's only 10mp in DX. The big sell for me though would be the AF point spread TBH.
 
snerkler said:
But cropping/ using the DX mode with the D810 would yield similar (maybe even better results) to a DX, and still giving a very acceptable 15.4mp. I personally don't see the point in a DX body as well if you have the D810, unless it's purely to do with framing? Of course, we all have GAS that has to be quenched :p
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If you do landscape or something as well as wildlife, then I can see why having both would be beneficial (if you can afford both) but if you're just doing wildlife, then yeah agreed one or the other. Believe me though, 15.4mp vs 20.9 (of d500) makes a difference. I notice the diff going from the 24mp of the d7200 to the d500 and that's only 3mp. 15.4 is less than I used to get on my d7000...more MP is better for birds, more pixels on target.
 
htid said:
If you do landscape or something as well as wildlife, then I can see why having both would be beneficial (if you can afford both) but if you're just doing wildlife, then yeah agreed one or the other. Believe me though, 15.4mp vs 20.9 (of d500) makes a difference. I notice the diff going from the 24mp of the d7200 to the d500 and that's only 3mp. 15.4 is less than I used to get on my d7000...more MP is better for birds, more pixels on target.
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As above up until recently I had the Em5-II and D750 and whilst there was clearly a difference in MP in the two in the real world I rarely noticed it as I don't tend to crop that heavily, it's very rare that I cropped below the resolution of my screen so it didn't make a noticeable difference. Even now I have a 5k (15mp) screen all that happens with heavily cropped images is that they appear smaller, there's no loss in IQ per se.

Obviously we all have our own needs and I can only speak from my experience. As I also mentioned, in an ideal world I would have something like the D500 as well for wildlife. There's been times taking pics of small birds with my D750 where the AF point is wider than the head so it's occasionally picked up the background instead of the bird, you'd have less chance of this with a DX as the bird would fill more of the frame.
 
My views are as follows:

As I have always said when people say the DX gives them more reach it is an illusion, it does not, DX is just a digital crop on an FX image ..., i.e. a cropped FF sensor

The DX frame lines on the D750 and D810 give you what you get with the D7200 if you are looking at framing and focus points, the only downside being the size of the image you see in the VF, maybe if this is a problem buy a x 1,3 VF...... most bird shots are cropped anyway

I have had the D7200 and have the D750 and D810 and the D750 and D810 in crop mode is as good as or better, better in my view, than anything the D7200 gives ...... do not get me wrong the D7200 produces good images, I have taken many that I am pleased with, but for some reason, do ask me what, it needs good light to be consistent, whereas the D750 does not to the same extent.

At the price the D7200 is great value and at that price perfect for bird photography, but if you can afford a little more IMHO buy the D750 ...... and if you want still more the D810 - both give you two cameras in one, DX for birds when you need it FX for birds, landscapes and others when you need it........ the D750 is easier to use than the D810 and more forgiving, it has a smaller form, but must be the best value DSLR out there from any manufacturer

The build quality of the D810 is far better than the D7200 albeit in a larger body ....... the only reason, IMHO, to buy the D7200 is cost at half the price of the D750 and a third of the D810

The AF's systems on all three are good and if you are into birds you would use single or small group anyway.

I found the D7200 and the previous D7000 and D7100, (I have had all three), to exhibit the same noise tendency which I did not find acceptable in some circumstance.

As far as the new D500 is concerned I have always indicated that because it is has a DX sensor, IMHO it will have the same problems as the D7xxx, noise wise for bird shooter - just my hunch and at the same price as the D810 there is no-contest ...... if you want to spend that money just buy the D810 ....... but only time will tell .. the extra fps and supposably better AF system will really not be noticeable, all in all when compared with the D750 and D810 it is the sensor that counts.

As usual Nikon seem to be "shooting themselves in the foot" somewhat with the release of their latest expensive DSLR body, the D500 ...... because of this initial release date bad publicity followed by a list of minor problems they are putting people off from buying the thing ..... they now do not seem to be able to produce a new upper range body without minor problems and their management of releases seem to be pitiful

These are just my personal views ..... based on owning and using the D90, D300, D7000, D7100, D7200, D700, D750, D810 - as they say - "all the gear and no idea"
 
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