DataCo Ruling

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I took some photo's at the Emirates Cup this year and was wondering if they could be put on my website - when its done.

My initial reaction was no, so I emailed DataCo to find out and this is their reply.

Hi Martin Thank you for your email sorry the answer is no as ground regulations do not allow recording equipment into grounds for audio or visual capture. Best regards Derek.

So there you have it.
 
Was this the ones that came up here over the summer time? Some of us said at the time, but it's always good to get confirmation straight from the horses mouth!
 
Aperture87 said:
Were you there as a photographer or just taking snaps as a spectactor?
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Does it make any difference if it's included in the ground regs?

If you have a licence then you are going to be bound by the terms of that, if you don't then the conditions of entry cover it.
 
jamesb84 said:
Was this the ones that came up here over the summer time? Some of us said at the time, but it's always good to get confirmation straight from the horses mouth!
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I know some people said they were not sure.

There has been some other posts just lately wondering the same thing with non-league v league in the FA Cup.
 
I was in the stands with my new DSLR happily snapping away and no-one said a dicky bird. So I just carried on.
 
AFC said:
I know some people said they were not sure.

There has been some other posts just lately wondering the same thing with non-league v league in the FA Cup.
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Different thing alltogether mate.. doesnt matter who is playing.. if you took them as a spectator the answer will always be no..
 
Cheers Tony. I've heard so many different stories regarding what you can do and what you cant do.
 
AFC said:
No but I was looking around just to see what other people were doing and there were a few people with some long lenses.
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It's actually refreshing to hear that they seemed chilled out about that, rather then the usual demonic reaction to anything larger than a pocket compact.

Common sense prevails at last, or just a slip up on their part?
 
DemiLion said:
It's actually refreshing to hear that they seemed chilled out about that, rather then the usual demonic reaction to anything larger than a pocket compact.

Common sense prevails at last, or just a slip up on their part?
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It's not common sense, its against the rules of the Premier League.

They shouldn't be "chilled out"...they should do their jobs and prevent ticket-holders breaching the regulations.

Sorry but those of us who have jumped through multiple hoops (either as individuals or through their agency) have done so so that we can photograph football. It IS NOT ALLOWED for ticket-holders to be taking photos. The amount of times someone tries to take the **** and sell via photoshelter/alamy or just give them away on flickr.

If you don't have a licence or are sitting in the stands...leave the camera at home. Those are the rules...don't like it, then ask Derek at DataCo, but I could almost guarantee you the reply will be the same as that above.
 
DemiLion said:
It's actually refreshing to hear that they seemed chilled out about that, rather then the usual demonic reaction to anything larger than a pocket compact.

Common sense prevails at last, or just a slip up on their part?
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I am wondering if it had been a league game and not a friendly tournament would it have been different.
 
James, I completely understand your view point, and I wasn't advocating that anyone should get away with flogging photos that aren't licensed; far from it.

It's a shame that photos can't be taken for private (ie non published) use any more, but I suppose that it would be impossible to police and therefore a total ban would seem to be the only option. Hence I was a bit surprised that telephotos were being used in the stands.

As you probably already know if you think that the 'man with camera' is a problem in football and rugby circle have a look at equestrian sport, where it's rife!
 
I totally agree with James as well and I have nothing but complete admiration and respect for you guys.

Its no excuse I know but it was my first ever visit to The Emirates and they were for my own personal record, as I said its no excuse.
 
AFC said:
Its no excuse I know but it was my first ever visit to The Emirates and they were for my own personal record, as I said its no excuse.
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if someone goes to a game and has absoloutly no idea about licences and pro photogrpahers.. havent a clue whats supposed to happen and just presumes they can take pics then I cwould find that quite understandable..
 
Since I have been on TP I have learned a lot regarding sports photography and the rules that are in place now and it is all down to you guys on here....Thank You.
 
jamesb84 said:
Sorry but those of us who have jumped through multiple hoops (either as individuals or through their agency) have done so so that we can photograph football. It IS NOT ALLOWED for ticket-holders to be taking photos. The amount of times someone tries to take the **** and sell via photoshelter/alamy or just give them away on flickr.
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James - Are you saying that if I get a ticket to the FA Cup final I shouldn't take my G9 along for a few snaps to put on Facebook?
 
I contacted my local club and was told that cameras were fine as long as they were not used to take shots of the game, pictures of other supporters and of the ground itself were okay.
 
EdBray said:
I contacted my local club and was told that cameras were fine as long as they were not used to take shots of the game, pictures of other supporters and of the ground itself were okay.
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Every ground in the UK from non league to premiership has the same ground rules.. Nobody is allowed to take into the ground anything that can record visual or audio. But the lower down the leagues you go the less they follow there own rules to the letter.. some higher up clubs dont bother either but then in turn some non league are sticklers for the rules...

Rules are the same in all grounds.. up to the club if they want to enforce them or not ..
 
bigrob said:
James - Are you saying that if I get a ticket to the FA Cup final I shouldn't take my G9 along for a few snaps to put on Facebook?
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Technically you shouldn't be allowed to. I'm not sure how enforced those rules are, but you should not be taking a camera along to any football match involving Premier League/Football League teams.
 
That's just plain daft James.

There is nothing wrong with taking a P&S to get some souvenier shots.

I agree that taking SLRs with big lenses shouldn't be allowed but not P&S's.
 
If it says no cameras, then NO CAMERAS, either SLR's or P&S. I know you cant get at the players very well with a P&S, unless your at the front.
 
I understand what the rules may be; that isn't my point.

I am saying that there is a difference and that difference should be recognised and taken in to account.
 
Yes I understand what you are saying.

I think on the Arsenal website it says you can use a camera for taking shots of the ground etc but 'Not when the game is underway', so one way they are saying 'NO Cameras' then they are saying yes bring your cameras.

I had my bag searched before I went in and they saw my camera, but said nothing.
 
I've taken a full bag of photography kit into the Emirates before now. My old company had a hired a box for a game and I went along to take photo's of our guests and the evening in general, nobody said a thing when they searched my bag.

I used to be a season ticket holder (well my brother did, but I tended to use it more than him) and often took my Olympus bridge camera with me, but more for getting shots of the crowd than anything else.

Steve
 
bigrob said:
I understand what the rules may be; that isn't my point.

I am saying that there is a difference and that difference should be recognised and taken in to account.
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Why?!

Just because we're photographers and wouldn't bother trying to flog photos taken on a P&S doesn't mean some other muppet wont.

Do an alamy search or a flickr search for Premier League photos and you'll come up with some which really shouldn't be there...yet they are.

Some people just don't want to follow the rules, and will try and sell P&S photos...hence: NO CAMERAS.

Don't blame me, I am licensed, I went through a lot to get there...blame the guys selling via Scoopt/Citizenside/Alamy and giving them away on Flickr.
 
I did a quick search on Flickr for Premier League football and most seem to be official ones.

When I did find something it doesn't look like the photo that is going to deprive any pro of any money.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lothario/3536094271/

Taken with a Finepix Z20.

Or what about this one http://www.flickr.com/photos/kk_wpg/2597536208/

This is not going to take any money away from anyone. Look bottom right for the official togs.

Last one - again on a P&S http://www.flickr.com/photos/auusi/274863745/
 
At the time I was coming back into photography after 25-30yrs out of it, so didn't really understand what I know now like Dataco, Licence's etc, but since talking to you guys on here and getting into sports photography - if you can call it that - with my local rugby club, I have a little idea what you guys have had to go through to get where you are today.

That was the only time I have ever taken a camera to a footbal match, it was my first time at the Emirates - NO EXCUSE - and a brand new camera - NO EXCUSE - but I will never take a camera with me again.
 
Try Alamy...granted the majority of shots on there are of games that fall outside the juristiction of DataCo but there are some which fall foul of the regulations and, while not as good as the official ones...are for sale nonetheless.

The Football DataCo would see this differently from you...I guarantee. Ridiculous as many people find it, I'm afraid those are the rules.
 
I can't find them.

However if they are for sale then I agree it is wrong and should be taken down by Flickr.
 
Perhaps they should be reported to DataCo.

Have DataCo got the power to prosecute? or would that be left to others.
 
I would imagine could get them taken down from Flickr.

The problem as I see it are.

1) They want to spectators to come, enjoy the football and maybe take away a few souvenier snaps.
2) The don't spectators to take photos to sell.
3) They can't stop everyone coming in with P&S and mobile phones.
4) A few people will always try and circumvent the rules.
 
The clubs.
 
bigrob said:
The clubs.
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right.. thought you meant dataco.. they dont want anyone taking pics of anyhting... and "the club" as mentioned dont all take the same view.. some dont even want you taking snaps... and for me thats the problem.. if we had a straight forward ruling everyone stuck to then we would all know exactly where we stand :)
 
I just don't see a need to be draconian about everything.

I see it as a parallel argument to those who want to ban all photography in schools in case there is one P**** taking photos.

James' argument seems to be that because some people take photos from the stands and try to sell them we must ban everyone from taking any sort of camera in to the ground.

I have fantastic video of both my boys in school productions from reception through to year 6. The school encouraged parents to take photos and video. I would be really disappointed not to have those videos.
 
I ahve no pictures of my eldest daughter or one of my boys who both did around 8 yrs at karate.. some bit of pics but even then it was no pics by anyone and now i have nothing :(

I agree with you...its all a bit stupid IMHO esp the schools thing...
 
Ah you mean like these?

p268547646-3.jpg


p38139442-3.jpg
 
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