DataCo Ruling

  • Thread starter Deleted member 29733
  • Start date
AFC said:
I think I stirred up a hornets nest, thats what you get for trying to be helpful :LOL:.

Off now to get me flak jacket on.:)
Click to expand...

To be fair Martin, you posted a reply from Derek at the DataCo which outlines exactly what flickring_mad feels he is exempt from. When he said "prove it" I think you already did! With the first post here.

Right or wrong, the Football DataCo have made their rules and the clubs have their ground regulations. Let's not argue the semantics of it...it's just the way it is.

However, when some people think they have a god-given right to take photos wherever they like, then they simply won't listen to reason.
 
Ok - sort of back on topic now.

Do you guys think we will get to the stage where every single person is searched or airport style scanned for cameras?

Or will the clubs have people with binoculas looking for anyone using a P&S?

I doubt it very much.

The only time DataCo is going to try and do something is if some people start to regularly produce very good images that are then put up for sale.
 
bigrob said:
Ok - sort of back on topic now.

Do you guys think we will get to the stage where every single person is searched or airport style scanned for cameras?

Or will the clubs have people with binoculas looking for anyone using a P&S?

I doubt it very much.

The only time DataCo is going to try and do something is if some people start to regularly produce very good images that are then put up for sale.
Click to expand...


:(... havent we already agreed that photogrpahing at football is too hard to police.. watch KO at old trafford and see how many flashes go off.. thousands.. look when they get a corner or a throwin at a premiership game.. nearly everyone in the crowd is using a camera or phone...

The problem isnt people taking the pictures as thats too hard to police..So I dont follow your post at all..

The problem is people publicly displaying them on the internet and flouting the rules they got away with to the point of going on a public forum and telling everyone its ok to photogrpah and publish your pictures...

No ones suggesting any of the above you posted ...
 
bigrob said:
Ok - sort of back on topic now.

Do you guys think we will get to the stage where every single person is searched or airport style scanned for cameras?

Or will the clubs have people with binoculas looking for anyone using a P&S?

I doubt it very much.

The only time DataCo is going to try and do something is if some people start to regularly produce very good images that are then put up for sale.
Click to expand...

I think the better that cameras get, the more likely we are to see restrictions enforced by the DataCo. The knowledge in the general public is limited to none (as aptly demonstrated in this thread).

I think that perhaps the more likely scenario is that with HD video becoming more easily available for people to shoot, that we'll see better quality videos appearing online. Sky are very protective over their TV rights, and pay a LOT of money for them. I think that is far more likely to be the "straw that breaks the camel's back". If that becomes a sore point for Sky/DataCo then I suspect that camera's will be banned and enforced much more rigourously.

Though how they will do this is anyone's guess.

I agree with Tony though, the much more annoying aspect for me is the idea of flouting the rules governing display of images. I can't stand the fact I'm not allowed to display my work online unless it gets published. Tony's going through the hoops for DataCo licensing now, and I can't begin to imagine how annoying it must be for him to have to hide away all his work when someone shooting from the stands comes here and vehemently states that it's OK.
 
Last edited:
I thought James - when he said

"However, when some people think they have a god-given right to take photos wherever they like, then they simply won't listen to reason. "

that he was implying DataCo should put pressure on the clubs to change their ground rules to stop people taking photos.
 
James posted a few second before me.

Yes I agree with you James - once video becomes more prevalent on Youtube etc, then Sky will be screaming for action.

Having said that - there are still videos of the Haye vs Harrison knockout on Youtube - a few days later.
 
Last edited:
bigrob said:
Yes I agree with you James - once video becomes more prevalent on Youtube etc, then Sky will be screaming for action.
.
Click to expand...

agree.... I ahve video on my 1dmkIV .. had it 10 mths... if someone asked me right now to video somehting i wouldnt even know how....
 
bigrob said:
that he was implying DataCo should put pressure on the clubs to change their ground rules to stop people taking photos.
Click to expand...

All ground rules in the UK state that you cannot take cameras into the ground... I cant see what could be changed...
 
KIPAX said:
agree.... I ahve video on my 1dmkIV .. had it 10 mths... if someone asked me right now to video somehting i wouldnt even know how....
Click to expand...

Wish I had video on my Mk III.
 
KIPAX said:
All ground rules in the UK state that you cannot take cameras into the ground... I cant see what could be changed...
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that's totally true Tony. Last time I was at Old Trafford (2 years ago), the sign said "No cameras with detachable lenses". Has it changed since then?
 
fabs said:
I'm not sure that's totally true Tony. Last time I was at Old Trafford (2 years ago), the sign said "No cameras with detachable lenses". Has it changed since then?
Click to expand...

Was that part of the ground rules on display? each club must have a set of ground rules.. each club has the same ground rules... as pointed out its then up to the club if they want to adhere to them. sloppy with them or ignore them... but they are all the same throughout the UK
 
KIPAX said:
Was that part of the ground rules on display? each club must have a set of ground rules.. each club has the same ground rules... as pointed out its then up to the club if they want to adhere to them. sloppy with them or ignore them... but they are all the same throughout the UK
Click to expand...

It was on the wall outside, near the turnstiles, along with other general rules (alcohol, behaviour etc).
 
 
cheers gary... and those same ground rules should be found at every ground in the uk .. yes scotland as well.. those are not dataco ground rules.. :)
 
KIPAX said:
cheers gary... and those same ground rules should be found at every ground in the uk .. yes scotland as well.. those are not dataco ground rules.. :)
Click to expand...

Actually Tony...those are not the same rules as found in Scotland. ;)

However, only to the extent that Alcohol is not permitted AT ALL within the ground. :p

Thanks Gary...these are at every ground in the country (I should know, I've seen a few) and if anyone bothered to read them then everyone would be aware of the rules.
 
Im sure some bright spark will come along and question them rules simply because they dont agree with them or dont care
 
Excuse my ignorance and please don't shout at me as I have no real interest in football either from the fan's side or taking photos but, are some of the non league games played at public parks or pitches that has general public access? How can the governing bodies dictate what a member of the public legally has in their possession when taking the dog out for example?

The reason I ask is not to inflame any situation but out of a healthy interest and who knows what may happen in the future.
 
tramp92 said:
Excuse my ignorance and please don't shout at me as I have no real interest in football either from the fan's side or taking photos but, are some of the non league games played at public parks or pitches that has general public access? How can the governing bodies dictate what a member of the public legally has in their possession when taking the dog out for example?

The reason I ask is not to inflame any situation but out of a healthy interest and who knows what may happen in the future.
Click to expand...

Generally speaking non-league games would not be covered by such stringent regulations. I'm not entirely sure on what they would be, but I would imagine that any game played in a publicly accesible area (such as a park) would have some degree of leeway in the rules...however, I'm not sure.
 
I seem to recall that in public areas theres no restrictions, think about it for a minute, how on earth would the Papparazzi make a living if they weren't allowed to take pics in public places.
 
Gary Coyle said:
I seem to recall that in public areas theres no restrictions, think about it for a minute, how on earth would the Papparazzi make a living if they weren't allowed to take pics in public places.
Click to expand...

This was the way my thinking was going. I was just unsure as there were definite sounding comments about non league games
 
tramp92 said:
This was the way my thinking was going. I was just unsure as there were definite sounding comments about non league games
Click to expand...

I think the confusion is coming from the definition Dan

We have been classing non league as anything below Conference.

for local "non league" i cant see there being any restrictions unless the games were on private property
 
Gary Coyle said:
Im sure some bright spark will come along and question them rules simply because they dont agree with them or dont care
Click to expand...

Gary - I'll be the dull spark !!

I understand that Dataco & the clubs have every right to make AND enforce pretty much any rules that they want.

It's exactly the same as on any other private property.

The gist of my statements/arguments are:-

1) I think it's a shame that they ban fans from taking cameras to take photos for their own use because some people take photos and try to sell them.

2) The rules about taking cameras/mobiles in to games and people taking photos/video is virtually impossible to police.

3) Dataco/The Clubs should prosecute people who do put these photos up for sale.

The rules at Twickenham seem to me a lot more sensible.
----------------------

15) Except for photography for bona fide private non-commercial uses, the possession or operation of recording or transmission equipment of any kind is prohibited within the Stadium. This includes without limitation photography, filming, audio or other recording or transmission, or the compilation or transmission of data, save with the specific authorisation of the RFU, such authorisation is hereby given in respect of photography for bona fide private non-commercial uses unless and until the RFU notifies otherwise.
 
Rovers_Andy said:
I think the confusion is coming from the definition Dan

We have been classing non league as anything below Conference.

for local "non league" i cant see there being any restrictions unless the games were on private property
Click to expand...

Cheers. As I said in my post, I know very little about football. I knew there had to be a hole somewhere in my understanding and I think you have filled it.:clap:
 
Rob, im not even going to get into a debate about what you or anyone else thinks (not a dig at you) as thats a totally different subject, 100 different people will have 100 different views.

Rules are rules and by entering the grounds you (not you personally) are saying you abide by them, if you dont you cant quote ignorance or a devil may care attitude as any form of defence


bigrob said:
Gary - I'll be the dull spark !!
I understand that Dataco & the clubs have every right to make AND enforce pretty much any rules that they want.

It's exactly the same as on any other private property.

The gist of my statements/arguments are:-

1) I think it's a shame that they ban fans from taking cameras to take photos for their own use because some people take photos and try to sell them.

2) The rules about taking cameras/mobiles in to games and people taking photos/video is virtually impossible to police.

3) Dataco/The Clubs should prosecute people who do put these photos up for sale.

The rules at Twickenham seem to me a lot more sensible.
----------------------

15) Except for photography for bona fide private non-commercial uses, the possession or operation of recording or transmission equipment of any kind is prohibited within the Stadium. This includes without limitation photography, filming, audio or other recording or transmission, or the compilation or transmission of data, save with the specific authorisation of the RFU, such authorisation is hereby given in respect of photography for bona fide private non-commercial uses unless and until the RFU notifies otherwise.
Click to expand...
 
Gary Coyle said:
Rob, im not even going to get into a debate about what you or anyone else thinks (not a dig at you) as thats a totally different subject, 100 different people will have 100 different views.

Rules are rules and by entering the grounds you (not you personally) are saying you abide by them, if you dont you cant quote ignorance or a devil may care attitude as any form of defence
Click to expand...

Got to agree...I'm sure we all have our various opinions about why football has these rules...but it's no different than saying

"In the UK we're allowed to drink at 18, in the USA it's 21"

You're looking at different sports, run by different bodies, who feel that images should be managed to different extents.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Rules are rules and by entering the grounds you (not you personally) are saying you abide by them, if you dont you cant quote ignorance or a devil may care attitude as any form of defence
Click to expand...

But I actually agree. They make the rules and people SHOULD abide by them even if they don't like those rules.
 
jamesb84 said:
As I've said, we all know that the DataCo monitor various websites around the world, including here at TP and Flickr. It would surprise me if Mr "Mad" doesn't find his Flickr photostream inexcplicably culled soon.
Click to expand...

A friend of mine has had a few photographs on his Flickr account from one of Preston's league matches for ages, so they can't be monitoring Flickr that much.
 
redddraggon said:
A friend of mine has had a few photographs on his Flickr account from one of Preston's league matches for ages, so they can't be monitoring Flickr that much.
Click to expand...

That's as maybe...but I would imagine if one comes onto a forum which we know is being monitored and brags about how you go every week etc. then you will probably find you attract more attention from the DataCo.

I don't know the ins and outs of how they work, but I would suspect they don't have people looking through the world wide web every day.
 
Just out of curiosity, I looked for flickring mad's spurs v Inter milan pix and I cant find them anywhere on flickr and cant find him either. :shrug:

Spooky.
 
Rovers_Andy said:
I think the confusion is coming from the definition Dan

We have been classing non league as anything below Conference.

for local "non league" i cant see there being any restrictions unless the games were on private property
Click to expand...


conference is non league and there are quite a few levels below the conference all ahve the same ground rules.. I ahve in my possesion a media pass from the unibond league I had to have in 2004.... get right down to north west counties and its same ground rules...

get onto the park and yer ok :) but I would define any level of football where you pay to enter the ground as having the rules..(thats my thinking)

at the risk of repeating myself... these lower non league clubs will be more inclined to welcome you wiht open arms when they see your camera rather than refuse you entry... but they ahve the same ground rules as the premiership.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Not Footie but Rugby, I get fed up of people telling me its OK to shoot from the stands when its clearly not allowed by the clubs or the governing body, i get absolutly fed up of pointing people to the 3 foot signs located around every Super League Club and every Aviva Premiership ground, just because people choose not to look for them doesnt mean they arent there or musnt be abided by, Rules are rules.

Heres a link to Headingleys ground regulations, note point 14 http://www.leedscarnegie.com/club/ground_regulations.php
Click to expand...

Leeds are one of the clubs that do explicitly state that no photography is allowed, not all do though. I buy my ticket for my local club and it states that photography is allowed for non commercial use, this if you like is what forms the contract between myself and the club for my visit to the ground. I take pictures and I used to put them up on Flickr, but I no longer do that as I can see that pictures could be used illegally without my knowledge (lord knows why, they ain't that good!), and I wouldn't want that to happen. I'm just a hobbyist and quite happy taking pictures for my own pleasure.

It's quite simple really, if the ticket you buy to a sporting event (that is held on private property) states or links to ground regulations that deny the use of a camera, then you aren't allowed to take pictures. It doesn't matter that you can get away with taking the camera into the ground you shouldn't be using it. If you start splashing the pics over the internet and the powers that be come knocking... you don't really have much to complain about!
 
jamesb84 said:
It's not common sense, its against the rules of the Premier League.

They shouldn't be "chilled out"...they should do their jobs and prevent ticket-holders breaching the regulations.

Sorry but those of us who have jumped through multiple hoops (either as individuals or through their agency) have done so so that we can photograph football. It IS NOT ALLOWED for ticket-holders to be taking photos. The amount of times someone tries to take the **** and sell via photoshelter/alamy or just give them away on flickr.

If you don't have a licence or are sitting in the stands...leave the camera at home. Those are the rules...don't like it, then ask Derek at DataCo, but I could almost guarantee you the reply will be the same as that above.
Click to expand...

It's a shame that's the case. For the average Joe who may want to take record shots of their day out and put it on Flickr or Facebook for all to see, it's a bit of a bummer. Suppose they can't stop you taking your phone in with you.....

However, pros obviously pay high prices for licenses etc and don't want their business threatened by have-a-go togs.

Someone's going to loose either way.....
 
Why won't this thread die?!

I think that some of the problem stems from people thinking that there is a divine right to photograph anything, anywhere at any time.

That's not the case, it's just against the rules, it might be a bummer for fans but it's not worth trying to circumvent the rules for. We haven't paid for licences, and in many cases wouldn't feel threatened by have-a-go photographers...I know my work is a lot better and regardless, will probably get used. However, it's cramped at grounds, and there are people more deserving of accreditation than others.

That said, it's doable for someone to get into it...albeit slowly. Look at redmonkee (phil). I remember back at the beginning he wanted to be photographing premier league straight away, rather than try that he's doing northern league stuff to increase his abilities, if he carries on that way he'll get there eventually and it's a lot more worthwhile than just sitting in the stands!
 
jamesb84 said:
That said, it's doable for someone to get into it...albeit slowly.
Click to expand...

Not 100% sure but I think the other phil.. purpleclouds.. went straight into premiership?
 
jamesb84 said:
Why won't this thread die?!
Click to expand...

Sorry James, I only posted just to show what DataCo's ruling was :LOL: and it seems to have opened up a can of worms by those who think they are either outside the law or THINK know better......which they dont.
 
jamesb84 said:
....and it's a lot more worthwhile than just sitting in the stands!
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you James. I only shoot semi pro rugby union at Southend and its great and enjoyable, so enjoyable that in the new year I have asked the club if I can do the away matches as well and travel on the team coach and have been given the go-ahead....BRING IT ON (y) :D
 
Good job Martin. Looking forward to meeting you when Southend come to Westcombe Park in March.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top