Developing Kit and chemicals

Are there any natural alternatives to fixer, stop etc to go with the caffenol type of brew?

for stop use water

works fine with standard developers so no reason for it not to be ideal with the caffenol soup
 
I was thinking about giving some home-brew caffenol developer a try, but then I heard that it stinks to high heaven and I don't fancy stinking the house out with that in winter time when I don't want all the windows open! [emoji38]
it doesn't smell that bad. I find it better to use caffenol when Bestbeloved is out of the house, but any smell doesn't linger.
 
Ideally I could do with a natural fixer if possible.

Is adofix any good? It seems nice and cheap.

If you didn't do a good stop and chucked the fix after each use would that work ok? Or if you added the fix and it wasn't really stopped using the caffenol type development would it end up weird?
 
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I think Tim Layton has some other posts about green chems of various kinds...
 
I'd like to get some of those eco pro chemicals. No uk distributor sadly.
 
I would think the main issue would be that the fixer is going to get contaminated by silver residue from the film, whether it's a 'green chemical' or not, as that's how fixer works? I seem to remember reading that used fixer should be taken to the local council recycling centre so that it can be disposed of safely, and not put down foul drains/sewers, because of this? Sorry if this is incorrect, I've not got that far in deciding if I'm going to have a go at developing B&W film yet!
 
Is there a side by side test of different developing chemicals with different films and how the results vary between which one is used?

The very first issue of SIlverprint magazine (and the only one under that name!) contained a review of Rodinal, which had some side by side sections of negatives from other developers. Not many, but it's a start. I put all my various bits of info on photography acquired from t'internet on my OneDrive to make them easier to share if required. The review is under "Films and developers" in the folder named (appropriately) Rodinal review.

My OneDrive is low on space and I may have to delete stuff soon, so if this (or anything else) is of interest/use, grab it now in case I have to remove it.

On the smell of developing, I can't say I notice it much. The developing tank has a lid which keeps down smells, but the only chemical that has a distictive smell to me is the acid stop bath, which reeks of vinegar (a smell I hate!). You can use odourless citric acid stop baths, but lemons go mouldy and pickled onions don't; I used odourless once and found mould formed around the top of the container storing the in use stop bath. Developing using trays in a darkroom is more "smelly" because of the larger open area for evaporation. I have a Nova processor which does away with open trays.
 
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I did wonder about having a jiffy lemon or just vinegar handy for a make do stop bath :)
 
Ideally I could do with a natural fixer if possible.

Is adofix any good? It seems nice and cheap.

If you didn't do a good stop and chucked the fix after each use would that work ok? Or if you added the fix and it wasn't really stopped using the caffenol type development would it end up weird?

You don't have to use fresh fixer every time. The film starts out with silver halide grains suspended in the emulsion; on development, the ones that were exposed are reduced to metallic silver, leaving undeveloped silver halide grains that will eventually darken on exposure to light (as a film leader will be darker than the film inside the cassette). The fixer simply dissolves out the silver halide, meaning that there's nothing left to darken and the image is permanent. The unfixed film will have a milky appearance, which eventually clears. Traditionally, fixing is complete after double the clearing time, and when the clearing time itself doubles the fixer should be thrown.

The fixer also has a couple of other functions. Film has an anti halation layer, dye which absorbs the light reflected back into the film after passing though it, and which can cause haloes around bright objects (think street lights in night photos). This is normally completely removed in the fixer, and with some films requires a longer fixing time. Hardening fixers also harder the emulsion to reduce the risk of scratches - this was more of a problem with older films (and the films made today to older "recipes").

The purpose of the stop bath is to halt the development (on the assumption that the developer is alkaline and requires an alkaline environment to work - some developers are acidic). Some recommend a plain water rinse rather than an acid stop bath to prevent bubbles forming in the emulsion from the acid/alkali reaction. I understand that this also may be more of a problem with some films; in almost 60 years of developing, I've yet to find evidence of the effect in my negatives, but perhaps I'm just lucky in my choice of developer (Unitol - long discontinued - and Rodinal) and film (PanF, FP3/4 and HP3 (no typos - I do mean HP3 and not HP4)).
 
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I did wonder about having a jiffy lemon or just vinegar handy for a make do stop bath :)

Lemon should work; but use white vinegar not malt. Sorry - you posted as I was typing.
 
I'm leaning towards Diafine now after reading that article. Time and temperature not critical as long as they're above a minimum. Shame you can't actually get the stuff easily. Arrrgghhhhhhhhh!

Check out Barry Thornton's two bath (lots of threads on APUG) if you like the idea of Diafine. You have to mix it from raw chemicals, but they are cheap and you could buy a lifetime supply for the cost of that Diafine!
 
I use white vinegar for cleaning and upsetting weeds so I tend to have some around.
 
The recipe for caffenol that I've seen includes citric acid, so I assume the end product is slightly acidic? If so, would vinegar/acetic acid still work as a stop bath? I think the person on the YouTube video I watched just used a few rinses of water followed by the fixer, but it was a while ago since I watched it so my memory of it is a bit dim! :sleep:
 
If you're using an acid developer, you might just as well use a plain water rinse. Once the developer has been poured out of the tank and the tank refilled, for all practical purposes the only developer left to continue working is that in the film emulsion itself. The main benefit of an acid stop bath is to prevent alkaline carry over into the (acid) fixer, and to stop development more quickly. How important this really is will depend on the total development time. If you're only developing for five minutes, an extra few seconds might matter; half an hour and it's of no practical consequence. My development times are around the sixteen minute mark.
 
Emailed Nik n Trick and they recommended Rodinal developer and Ilford Fix as calmer concoctions plus the Rollei RPX film. Has anyone tried both Ilford Fix and AdoFix and thought the Ilford was noticeably less stinky? The Adofix is a lot cheaper so the miser in me is leaning toward that...

After all this I'll probably get it, read the destructions, decide it's too much bother and shove the lot in a cupboard!
 
What size film are you using, and do you like grain? Rodinal is empahtically not a fine grain developer, and although I use it for medium and large format film, I wouldn't personally use it for 35mm because of the grain issue. But I hate grain, as it detracts from the effect I want in my photography.

I have no idea about the relative smell of Adox and Ilford fixers, as I've never used Adox. My local dealer stocks Ilford chemicals, and it's easy enough to get a free bus there to pick up a bottle (it only takes a couple of hours to make the 6 mile round trip by bus). I see that the Adox is a rapid fixer, as is the Ilford one, so it's going to depend on the acid. That said, fixer doesn't have much of a smell. Acetic acid stop baths have a strong smell of vinegar; the only other strong(ish) smelling chemical I've used is D163 paper developer, which had a rather pleasant aromatic smell.
 
I hate grain. I'd probably develop 35mm only. I have a 120mm tank too but I'm not sure I can get the paper off without making a hash of it as it's a bit more complicated than the 35mm tanks to use.

Compared to just sticking the film in an envelope this home development lark is time consuming and complicated.
 
So pretty big - the files I get back from the labs are 30 ish
From VueScan you can save the files from your scanner at any size you like. Of course the larger the file the more detail you preserve. But full resolution is probably overkill.

In terms of developer, though I used other developers for special purposes. I used Kodak D76 (or the identical Ilford ID11) at full strength for large format. or diluted 1to1 or 1to3 for medium format.
It keeps well at stock strength. At 1to1 or 1to3 you throw away after use. It is the standard by which all other developers are judged. it produces fine grain and exceptional tonality. and at dilution produces higher actuance and more detailed shadows. In my working years I probably got though at least 10 gallons of stock a year.
(in fact rather more... as I replaced my large format 3 gallon tank four times a year, and topped them up with replenisher daily. and that does not count the developer I used diluted for MF.)
 
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I'm pretty sure I used to use Ilford developer and fixer for black and white 35mm and MF (I was still at school in those days, so I can't remember for certain!) but I don't remember the stuff smelling too bad. I can't remember if I used a stop bath though, I know I just used tap water (changing it regularly) between the developer and fixer when developing prints. I once bought an E6 slide film developing kit and managed to use that OK, but I seem to recall it was a major faff getting the temperature of each chemical right as well as all the timings, so one complete Saturday afternoon of that was enough for me!

I picked up a universal tank (Patterson 4) and graduate jug cheap off eBay the other week, so I'm ready to try my luck with B&W 120 again... but like Suz's comment #59 above, I have a feeling it might all end up sitting at the back of a cupboard! :whistle: I seem to remember the biggest hassle was getting the developed film to dry without any dust and water marks on it. I never fancied trying those film squeegee things, as one tiny bit of grit on them would put a scratch down the whole roll of film. I imagine materials might have improved over the years though, what does the team think, any good tips? :)
 
I have never had a problem with a film squeegee scratching the film - the knack is to keep your kit clean.
 
Hang to dry in the bathroom.

I never have an issue with dust.

Use distilled water and a drop of photo flo, or whatever it's called, as a final rinse. No water marks.

Stay well away from the squeegees.
 
Distilled/purified water for the final rinse with a couple of drops of wetting agent in it; hang up weighted at the bottom in a dust free atmosphere to dry; if using the bathroom for drying, have a bath/shower first, to let the steam take dust particles out of the atmosphere; don't go in more than necessary until the film is dry; put in sleeves as soon as dry (but not before).

Separating film and backing paper isn't tricky - I was developing roll film whilst still at primary school, and putting the film in the tank in a very hot and confined space under the bedclothes. The only trick is to not rip the adhesive stip away quickly, as the static can produce light and affect the film.
 
I don't use a squeegee; I have heard the use of fingers (as in sliding the film through) as an alternative, on the grounds that you'll feel dust/grit with your fingers and can stop before too much damage has been done.
 
On the subject of stop baths versus water, the following information is taken from the Kodak Black and White Darkroom Dataguide, p14, first paragraph of the section headed Stop Bath:

The primary function of an acid rinse or stop bath is to stop development. It also serves other useful purposes in processing film. An acid stop bath removes the calcium scum that forms on the surface of the film during development, and it prevents excessive swelling of the gelatin coating. By delivering the films into the fixer in an acid condition, the stop bath not only preserves the acidity and the hardening properties of the fixing solution, but also prevents the formation of alum scum and sludge.
 
i might try a bit of white vinegar and water for stop perhaps. I don't mind vinegar. Will just end up having chips for tea though...
 
On the subject of stop baths versus water, the following information is taken from the Kodak Black and White Darkroom Dataguide, p14, first paragraph of the section headed Stop Bath:

The primary function of an acid rinse or stop bath is to stop development. It also serves other useful purposes in processing film. An acid stop bath removes the calcium scum that forms on the surface of the film during development, and it prevents excessive swelling of the gelatin coating. By delivering the films into the fixer in an acid condition, the stop bath not only preserves the acidity and the hardening properties of the fixing solution, but also prevents the formation of alum scum and sludge.

I had no idea about that. Just assumed it brought development to a grinding halt.
 
I use Ilfosol 3 (which is nice because you buy it in liquid form, don't have to make up stock, and it's usually diluted 1+9), Ilfostop and Ilford Rapid Fixer. The only one of those with any noticeable (but mild) pong is the stop.
 
I got the rodinal and decided on the adox powder fixer instead of Ilford as it won't go off and I can probably mix a part packet and zip lok the rest.

Seems to be some discussion whether stop is needed with rodinal and just rinse is ok.
 
Foma tell you not to use an acid stop bath as it can damage their emulsions.

Whereabouts is this info? I've just looked at their data sheet for Fomapan 100 and they say "the film is recommended to be shortly rinsed in distilled water or dipped in a 2
% acetid (sic) acid solution for 10 seconds". I have heard that some of the older films (think Adox and Foma) are susceptible to various forms of mechanical damage and possibly gas bubbles forming, but I'm not sure where the makers specify this.

Seems to be some discussion whether stop is needed with rodinal and just rinse is ok.

Again, as a matter of my curiosity, whereabouts? I'd always assumed that as Rodinal uses one of the most caustic alkalis out there in the formulation that if anything could benefit from a stop bath, Rodinal would.
 
I was reading the chapter on stop baths in Grant Haist's Modern Photographic Processing in bed last night (as one does) and found that there were a number of considerations I'd not come across before. I need to re-read carefully and assimilate, but it appears that the subject is more complex than I'd realised. Leaving out several caveats and subtleties, it seems that the formation of bubbles will depend on the composition of the stop bath (and not just its measured pH); but using an acetic acid stop bath can improve the archival qualities of the negatives; using a citric acid (lemon/odourless) can negatively impact the archival qualities. The choice of stop bath and its properties can also lead to the production of sulphur dioxide (rotten eggs gas) from the fixing stage, and aid in the prevention of reticulation and other adverse physical effects in the emulsion. I'd never considered the effect of the interaction of residual developer and fixer together in the fixing bath; dichroic fog can be produced for a reason that is obvious when once explained.

All these properties/effects depend on the interaction of the various components in the developer/stop/fixer baths. The book does quantify things, and explains the effects in detail.

I've come away with the opinion that an acetic acid stop bath is a jolly good idea for a number of reasons.
 
It would be interesting to see a quantified comparison between an acetic stop bath and water as a stop.
 
So. V550 or v600. I hear some chatter about getting a different holder for 120 film - does anybody use one?
 
So. V550 or v600. I hear some chatter about getting a different holder for 120 film - does anybody use one?

Same unit underneath just a different box and light source, what ever you can get cheapest. The film holder isn't great but isn't a day 1 upgrade imo.
 
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