Digital paranoia anyone ???

DiddyDave

DiddyDave

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Just wondering if I'm going a bit OTT here :thinking:

My pc runs work-in-progress, and once completed it's all transferred to external HDs

More correctly - it's transferred to 2 500gb HD as working drives, and a 3rd back-up goes to a 1tb HD that is only ever on to back-up to or open from. So basically I'm keeping 3 copies of everything

That said, the buggers are all full now! So today I bought another 2 1tb HDs and I'm busy backing-up Weddings to those too, to then clear the little 500gb HDs to start again. The 3x 1tb ones will only be used to save to so most of the time won't be turned on or even connected to the pc or electricity

Now I'm thinking I'm getting paranoid about all this, in 5+ years of digi use I've only known one external HD to fail, so the chances of 3 going at once (or before I can buy more and back-up again) must realistically be virtually nil :thinking:

That said, a mate of mine has two sets of 4 1tb HDs set to back up to all 8 of them, as well as running working copies on his pc (which has 2x 1tb HD in it)

So if I am a bit paranoid - is he completely nuts? :nuts:

Or am I just not secure enough??? :shrug:

DD

PS - consider me a virtual computer numpty, as although I use them all day long I have no interest or idea of how they work :D
 
Better to be safe than sorry matey. I am in the process of backing up to disc as we speak.


md
 
They do die, you can never have enough redundancy really, especially for weddings.
 
swanseamale47 said:
They do die, you can never have enough redundancy really, especially for weddings.
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So do you think 3 copies isn't enough? The instant one fails I have 2, and then buy and back-up another to always have 3

Is 8 about right or just completely nuts?

:shrug:

DD
 
I've only ever had one go but if that had been "THE" one I'd have been stuffed!
I save a copy of all the RAW's and a copy of the finished album pics to DVD and back it all up to a 500GB HD that sits in a caddy. When that's full I can just slot in another HD. I can then archive the HD's in sealed bags so I don't have to keep juggling files around.

I reckon one 500GB should last for between a year and two years just depending on how much I shoot (obviously!)
 
How many GB do you take per shoot Dave?

Do you not save to removable media such as DVDs?
 
EdBray said:
How many GB do you take per shoot Dave?

Do you not save to removable media such as DVDs?
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Per Shoot?

Weddings, perhaps 16

Others, perhaps 2-4

It's an awful lot of DVDs as my current 'essential' back-up would need more than 300 of them!

DD
 
For current work, where possible I have three copies (keep on memory cards, on computer and on back up hard drive), my computer has two hard drives, one dedicated to my photos. This was brilliant when the operating system crashed twice in a month and I didn't lose a single photo.

For work clients have been given, I have two copies.
 
DiddyDave said:
Per Shoot?

Weddings, perhaps 16

Others, perhaps 2-4

It's an awful lot of DVDs as my current 'essential' back-up would need more than 300 of them!

DD
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I would have though that 1 DVD per studio shoot and 4 DVDs per wedding were not too much for peace of mind. Being non-magnetic can be stored in files much like negatives used to.
 
clud17 said:
Are all the drives in one place, perish the thought but if they are and you have a fire they could all be destroyed. Sorry if i've just fuelled your paranoia :D
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Cheers pal - yes they are

:runaway::runaway::runaway::runaway::runaway:



But they won't be when the new ones are fully backed up :razz:

:D

DD
 
EdBray said:
I would have though that 1 DVD per studio shoot and 4 DVDs per wedding were not too much for peace of mind. Being non-magnetic can be stored in files much like negatives used to.
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I do normally do that too bud - just got out of the habit when I had 10 Weddings in a month AND two weeks holiday !!!

I was thinking about copying the whole 'work' rather than just the raws though, which would be OTT I guess

Note to self - copy recent raws to DVDs too

DD
 
a very large vault..run on electricity.. even that could break down

what does NASA do
 
Put all the HDDs in a server type box, like the WD sharespace or the HPMediaSmart and set it up for RAID, not sure what would be the correct one to use since I read about it a while ago. It creates a backup of all the data on it and shold be more than enough.
 
Have you considered what might happen if all the drives were stolen at once? It would be devastating if someone lift the PC and the two drives so maybe you should keep them in obscure places around the house.

Off-site backup is the best solution really and if you get a paid service then you can be pretty confident that the company will have properly considered their backup arrangements for you.
 
Steve Smith said:
Possibly both!

Just out of interest, with a wedding, how long do you guarantee to the customer that you will retain the files?


Steve.
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My guarantees - stop when their DVD is delivered unless I know they want an album; though I will retain at my discretion for an unlimited further period

I then have new guarantees that I'll retain their files long enough to produce an album

I am preparing to start writing to those that didn't have an album with an offer that they can buy the digi files now before they are destroyed - forever

DD
 
I generally do something similar Dave, all original raws are kept and the edited jpgs, backed up to an internal [seperate] HD and and external one. Then once external one is full, that gets copied to another HD, both get unplugged and stored away, one at home, the other in fireproof safe at work [which we have anyway, it wasn't a photography related thing]. The internal one meanwhile gets formatted, and it all starts again :bonk:
Mind you, I have started being a LOT more critical and harsh about deleting the rubbish after shoots these days, I know storage isn't totally expensive these days, but it can fill up very quickly if you are a bit trigger happy :nuts:
 
my planned rig will run raid 0+1 internally which means 2 internal drives need to fail before I lose any data (4x1tb drives this way gives me 2tb of storage) this is then backed up weekly/fortnightly to a network sever at home (I live at uni) loving Ali's idea for using internal drives in a caddy got a mate that does that

also you guys know about archival dvds right? standard dvds have a life span shorter than a hd in a bag in a box
 
dvds' life expectancy is one of the reasons I don't wish to 'guarantee' anything timewise to anyone :(

That and in 10 years it's likely people will be wondering what a dvd is, or how to access the current HDs too - all scary stuff

Now film :love: - still thousands of negs up in my loft some from 25 years ago :)

Probably all mouldy now and have eaten by mice :lol:

DD
 
More than 10 years ago I got a call from a Woman who's wedding I had done about 8 years previously. She wanted a complete replacement wedding album and a number of family snaps copied, some enlarged and framed. It turned out that she had been involved in a house fire and whilst the fire brigade managed to save the youngest daughter and the woman (her husband was at work) her six year old daughter had been overcome with smoke and had died.

The house had been completely gutted and pretty much anything that could burn had burnt. They managed to get hold of every picture of their daughter that their family held and I did a copy of each as required. Fortunately I had their wedding negs (still have) and was able to provide a copy of their album too.

Quite distressing at the time, and their apprciation at the final results was very uplifting.

Had I given them the negs or DVDs (not that there was such a thing then) they would have lost the lot!
 
Maybe look into a Blu Ray Writer (£150) as the RW disks are about £6 for 2 x 25GB disks. Then you can back up each shoot you do. £3 for 25GB is a steal and it gives piece of mind as well as you hard drive back up..
 
A good backup strategy for a PC not just images is a good idea in any case. It is also advisable to have a copy off-site, even if it's in the shed at the bottom of the garden in case of fire. Probably wise to put it on a high shelf as well in view of recent rain.
 
I make a set of prints then photocopy them before putting them in a jiffy bag and hiding them in a box in my shed. Am I being over optimistic? ;)
 
DVDs / CDs are rather risky. I had a lot of them completely corrupted after 1-2 years. Luckily I had nothing important in them. HDDs have much higher reliability, and they are spread across 3 (internal, external and time machine). I only had a problem with Lacie and would never buy it again.
 
daugirdas said:
DVDs / CDs are rather risky. I had a lot of them completely corrupted after 1-2 years. Luckily I had nothing important in them. HDDs have much higher reliability, and they are spread across 3 (internal, external and time machine). I only had a problem with Lacie and would never buy it again.
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1-2 years is shocking :eek:

But if their Wedding dvds fail, then at least that might make them come back for a new copy & fee being needed ;)

Anyone know where you can buy dvds pretty much guaranteed to fail within 2 years :D

DD
 
I have 2 back-ups, one to an external hard drive and one to an Archos that I can also use as a photo viewer. Admittedly, they are all in the same location, so I am thinking of having one stored at my parents' place.

On that basis, i think 2 back-ups is adequate, as the chances of 2 failing and/or being damaged at the same time at different locations is virtually non-existant and if one incident were large enough to cause that sort of damage, I would imagine that losing your photos would be the least of your worries!
 
if there are any weddings that are over a year old then couldnt you contact them and tell them that you are running out of space and so you must delete them s any last orders need to be made with 30 days. or something like that.
 
daugirdas said:
DVDs / CDs are rather risky. I had a lot of them completely corrupted after 1-2 years. Luckily I had nothing important in them.
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For archival purposes, the brand which appears to be the best are Taiyo Yuden. I use their DVD-R's (don't know if they make CD) for recording stuff from television and I have recordings going back about 6 years and are still playable. These are made in Japan, and to be fair they are the most expensive.

Verbatim's are readily available, however these can be made in Taiwan, China or India. The general recommendations are to avoid the Chinese and Indian discs as apparently these are the ones which cause more problems than the discs manufactured in either Taiwan or Japan.

I guess the real test will be if they last as long as negatives, assuming there are machines still around to read them that is. :shrug:
 
Goody13 said:
I have 2 back-ups, one to an external hard drive and one to an Archos that I can also use as a photo viewer. Admittedly, they are all in the same location, so I am thinking of having one stored at my parents' place.

On that basis, i think 2 back-ups is adequate, as the chances of 2 failing and/or being damaged at the same time at different locations is virtually non-existant and if one incident were large enough to cause that sort of damage, I would imagine that losing your photos would be the least of your worries!
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Now that's more like my reasoning m8 - only I'm keeping 1 off-site and 2 on-site - in any normal sense and even allowing for Sod's Law, that just has to be enough :shrug:

DD
 
mastertrinity said:
if there are any weddings that are over a year old then couldnt you contact them and tell them that you are running out of space and so you must delete them s any last orders need to be made with 30 days. or something like that.
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So young and yet so mercenary :D

And yes that's part of the ongoing plan

DD
 
DiddyDave said:
Now that's more like my reasoning m8 - only I'm keeping 1 off-site and 2 on-site - in any normal sense and even allowing for Sod's Law, that just has to be enough
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That will only work if you regularly ensure that everything stored offsite is still o.k.

If you don't do that and one day you find a corrupt file in your onsite storage, you may think it's o.k. as you have a backup only to find that your backup has gone too.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
That will only work if you regularly ensure that everything stored offsite is still o.k.

If you don't do that and one day you find a corrupt file in your onsite storage, you may think it's o.k. as you have a backup only to find that your backup has gone too.


Steve.
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Ahead of you there Steve :)

The 3 units will be used in rotation so each one goes off-site for a month before coming back for two

Fingers Xd that should do it

DD
 
Think of a hard drive as a library shelf full of books. An index tels you exactly where each book is located. More than likely, it is the index that gets corrupted, meaning the books are still on the shelf. Deleting files doesn't actualy remove the book from the shelf, it just removes the index card for the space... The book/data will be deleted when more data is written to the drive and a new book is stored in the same shelf space.

An unreadable drive which is physicaly sound, but with a screwed up filing system can normaly be recovered to some extent at home. Accidentaly deleted files can normaly be recovered, so long as they haven't beeen written over after deletion. Physical damage or mechanical failure or greater errors which can't be recovered at home can be recovered by a specialist that can dismantle the drive and read the data from each part of a disc seperately before building up a file structure and saving to a new drive... So you would be unlucky to loose a file if you have a couple of seperate back-ups.
 
singlespeed said:
Think of a hard drive as a library shelf full of books. An index tels you exactly where each book is located. More than likely, it is the index that gets corrupted, meaning the books are still on the shelf. Deleting files doesn't actualy remove the book from the shelf, it just removes the index card for the space... The book/data will be deleted when more data is written to the drive and a new book is stored in the same shelf space.

An unreadable drive which is physicaly sound, but with a screwed up filing system can normaly be recovered to some extent at home. Accidentaly deleted files can normaly be recovered, so long as they haven't beeen written over after deletion. Physical damage or mechanical failure or greater errors which can't be recovered at home can be recovered by a specialist that can dismantle the drive and read the data from each part of a disc seperately before building up a file structure and saving to a new drive... So you would be unlucky to loose a file if you have a couple of seperate back-ups.
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Nice explanation in very simple language - cheers :)

DD
 
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