Documentary photography

fabs said:
And kids could nick their dad's nudey mags, not seeing your point.



Glamour is the accepted term for the genre of photography. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it any less valid.



It is more closely moderated, have a look at the sticky in the 1st thread in that section.



But I notice you made sure you got your point in first. ;)
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I disagree with you. Simple as that. Call it glamour all you want if it makes it seem more acceptable to you... it's still objectifying, soft porn. That's my opinion.

Why is a moderator deliberately extending a pointless argument that's off topic for the thread? Isn't your job to stop stuff like that? :)
 
Pookeyhead said:
I disagree with you. Simple as that. Call it glamour all you want if it makes it seem more acceptable to you... it's still objectifying, soft porn. That's my opinion.

Why is a moderator deliberately extending a pointless argument that's off topic for the thread? Isn't your job to stop stuff like that? :)
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It's not what I call it, it's what it's called.

And you started the argument by having a rant about the Nudes & Glamour section so don't use my status as moderator to deflect the issue. :)
 
fabs said:
It's not what I call it, it's what it's called.
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Oh God.. we need some culture in here....

O! be some other name:
What’s in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet
 
Back on topic...

Having looked through the links provided I am now sold on the idea of having a dedicated forum for Projects (not time-based). There is some great stuff there and it will be easier to keep up with what's going on if they had their own section to live in. It even reminded me of a couple of long term projects I have on the go and should revisit at some point. Having somewhere to publish the images will help me focus I reckon.
 
TimmyG said:
Back on topic...

Having looked through the links provided I am now sold on the idea of having a dedicated forum for Projects (not time-based). There is some great stuff there and it will be easier to keep up with what's going on if they had their own section to live in. It even reminded me of a couple of long term projects I have on the go and should revisit at some point. Having somewhere to publish the images will help me focus I reckon.
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I have to agree. It's also something that beginners should be encouraged to try as well. It builds an appreciation for the medium, and also prevents that stage in most hobbyists career: Running out of ideas, and just getting bored. A decent project is a REASON for picking up a camera. A 52 is an EXCUSE to pick one up.
 
Pookeyhead said:
A decent project is a REASON for picking up a camera. A 52 is an EXCUSE to pick one up.
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I think there can be a lot of value to be gained from completing a 52 or a 365 though. I certainly found that to be the case.

I also learned I'll more than likely never do one again ;)
 
TimmyG said:
I think there can be a lot of value to be gained from completing a 52 or a 365 though. I certainly found that to be the case.

I also learned I'll more than likely never do one again ;)
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There is... Certainly teaches you discipline. I just wish there wasn't so many of them in the projects forum. It's as if that's what most people think a project is and can't think of anything else.
 
365 or a 52, never tried but I did enter poty once, just taking extra images to a theme once a month pushed me at the time and gave me a grounding.
Documentary interests me, not only because I'm studying it at the moment, but also because there's a depth shown in the photography that's much more than a single image. The thought that goes into not only the image taking and production, but also in the presentation, the order, the final resultant series elevates the images, the sum being greater...
Not sure I ready to show some of mine yet. The last assignment project was quite raw, personal. Perhaps when my tutor provides feedback. I'm worried it might be cliched, but so ether to put it where it could be judged as a whole rather than a single image would be good.
 
tried a 365 got bored gave up, tried a 52 got bored gave up - for once I agree with David (not on N&G but on the core point) , a project which someone sets themselves with a reason behind it is far more likely to hold their interest than a 52 shooting to a brief set by others.

Theres nothing wrong with 365/52 if people enjoy it, but it would be good to have those threads in a sub forum of their own so they don't swamp the other project threads
 
Pookeyhead said:
IMO.... actually...

I do see a point. It's harmful. It's objectifying, promotes self-image insecurity in young girls as well as the problems that body image in adolescents can cause such as eating disorders, or even just shyness caused by not being model perfect (we do have children on this forum after all), and such attitudes shown in that forum almost certainly promote a casual sexism that most intelligent people will agree has no place in society. Birds and motorsport are inert... they does no harm. The majority of people want Page 3 banned for these reasons, yet here we are in TP land proudly showing it when the forum is meant to be young person friendly. It's not the nudity that bothers me... it's the objectification.

If it wasn't sexist.... why are there almost no shots of men in there? Those that are (very, very few) are mainly by women, and aren't so loaded in sexual connotation and don't display the blokes as things for the male gaze to own and covet (or even the female gaze). Like this...

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/art-nude-male.565235/

That doesn't really need a nude and glamour forum... that should really just be in People and Portraits.. why tuck that away in a forum full of sleaze?

Yet this....

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/natalia-forrest-christmas-shoot.572258/

That's soft porn, pure and simple. Can you suggest ANY other reason for taking something like image number 4 in that thread? One reason please.. just one.

How can a forum that suspends you for calling someone an idiot allow sexually explicit images of women with the legs spread... pussy on show, looking suggestively toward the camera? LOL. Not only that... but do so in a forum we all know has kids in it. Would you leave your w*** mags lying around on your coffee table when the grand kids come over? No... so why post it in here? You think putting "NSFW" makes it OK?

Time to get rid I think. I'm not referring to nude studies, or anything aesthetically beautiful, or anything thought provoking as they can just live in People & Portraits - this is not about nudity or sex... I'm just on about the objectifying soft porn.. women in lingerie so small that they've avoided showing the genitals by mere millimetres (and in some cases not quite managing it) sticking their asses out for the camera... or women with arched backs on hands and knees on beds.. basically in doggy style positions... spread legs with semi see-thru pants... come on... s**t like that is just objectifying soft porn that sends the wrong message to young girls - namely that life's better for women if they look like models, spread their legs, and smile because men will like them more. It causes huge confidence issues in adolescents. Fact.

This is not about being prudish or offended by sex. I enjoy ****ing as much as the next bloke. It's about attitudes. Attitudes that would probably suggest it's more acceptable to take images of women that definitely suggest they all want you, the viewer to f**k them.... but if I talk about f**king, that's probably a no no. Even that word... f**k.... gets people all upset for some reason.... I mean it's so much more worse than showing images of young girls looking like they're had their ovaries hoovered out huh?

Twisted logic.

It's not the 1970s FFS. What will people say next... there's no harm in 'Love Thy Neighbour' and that Bernard Manning is also still acceptable on pre-watershed TV?



Looks like feminism hasn't really touched these forums... sums up a great deal of amateur photography generally really... it's kind of stuck in 1979 and on repeat.

Rant over.
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I have seen you make these sort of comments on a few different threads of late, and had decided to not get involved, but as it is continuing decided to have a say. I will say straight off that yes I do shoot what you class as soft porn and post in a the forum you class as full of sleaze....... So assume that is classing me in the same light. I do understand your point of view, but have to say it is just that, you point of view, we all have one and are all entitled to one. But that does not mean you have to repeatedly tell people they are in the wrong due to your point of view.

As for the it objectify's, sorry don't agree, if you want to go down that route, then are you saying that anything that shows a model is wrong and objectifying, after all models are used to show clothes in magazines and adverts, is that objectifying saying that all girls/women (or boys/men) have to look like this to where there product. or the TV adds that use the female in lingerie etc. to sell a product. What about magazines such as Vogue that airbrush shots to the extreme..... Should they all be stopped as they objectify the female.

I have meet quite a few very nice people, from all walks of life, both male and female through shooting models and what you call soft porn. And on the whole they are all very nice people, have social standing, but more importantly apart from a couple of rare exceptions not sleazy in any way. In fact many have become good friends. to class them a sleazy as you seam to infer I actually take as an insult, same as I take it that way myself.

Then you say the forum has an obligation to protect kids/younger members, you are right, and they do, the forum is not accessible to them as members, yes they can lie about there age, but can the forum be held responsible for that, No. You also say that the forum remembers you when you log on to your PC, yes it does, does that give the forum a responsibility to protect your kids, grand kids or any kids that may visit you and get on your PC, No. Do you have that responsibility, Yes. you say people wouldn't leave mags around so kids can see them, therefore you know the section is there, and through your account can be accessed so therefore you are responsible to make sure if you don't want them to see it they cant.

I do fully understand you have your objections to the section, and you have that right, so don't go in there, don't look at the threads and you wont have to see them. But on the flip side the people that do want to see the threads, and those that want to shoot what you call soft porn have the right to show and view what they want, after all the section is set up to allow those that shoot to get constructive crit so they can improve on their chosen field of photography, is it wrong that they chose to do this, No, just as it is not wrong for you to not like it.

Personally I don't have any real interest in documentary, so therefore have no interest in a section dedicated to it, but I am not joining this thread to say, no I don't like it therefore it has no place. And if the Admins decide that yes there is a need for the section, I would not be commenting on several threads about how I disagree and it is time it was gone. I would just not go in for a look.

Sorry for taking the thread OT but felt I had to address this.
 
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cosmix3 said:
IThen you say the forum has an obligation to protect kids/younger members, you are right, and they do, the forum is not accessible to them as members, yes they can lie about there age, but can the forum be held responsible for that, No.
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I very much doubt that people use photoforums for browsing. Turn safe search off and let google do the work, 4chan, imgur nsfw, any number of porn sites are much easier to access.
 
Byker28i said:
I very much doubt that people use photoforums for browsing. Turn safe search off and let google do the work, 4chan, imgur nsfw, any number of porn sites are much easier to access.
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Exactly, for those that want to view for he thrill there is loads more on the net that they can enjoy.
 
I'd like to see a documntary/long term project section. I'm not interested in 52s or 365s as they tend to be standalone images with no common thread other than the photographer. I do like to see how projects develop and there are certainly some interesting ones linked here that I would otherwise have missed
 
cosmix3 said:
I have seen you make these sort of comments on a few different threads of late, and had decided to not get involved, but as it is continuing decided to have a say. I will say straight off that yes I do shoot what you class as soft porn and post in a the forum you class as full of sleaze....... So assume that is classing me in the same light. I do understand your point of view, but have to say it is just that, you point of view, we all have one and are all entitled to one. But that does not mean you have to repeatedly tell people they are in the wrong due to your point of view.

As for the it objectify's, sorry don't agree, if you want to go down that route, then are you saying that anything that shows a model is wrong and objectifying, after all models are used to show clothes in magazines and adverts, is that objectifying saying that all girls/women (or boys/men) have to look like this to where there product. or the TV adds that use the female in lingerie etc. to sell a product. What about magazines such as Vogue that airbrush shots to the extreme..... Should they all be stopped as they objectify the female.

I have meet quite a few very nice people, from all walks of life, both male and female through shooting models and what you call soft porn. And on the whole they are all very nice people, have social standing, but more importantly apart from a couple of rare exceptions not sleazy in any way. In fact many have become good friends. to class them a sleazy as you seam to infer I actually take as an insult, same as I take it that way myself.

Then you say the forum has an obligation to protect kids/younger members, you are right, and they do, the forum is not accessible to them as members, yes they can lie about there age, but can the forum be held responsible for that, No. You also say that the forum remembers you when you log on to your PC, yes it does, does that give the forum a responsibility to protect your kids, grand kids or any kids that may visit you and get on your PC, No. Do you have that responsibility, Yes. you say people wouldn't leave mags around so kids can see them, therefore you know the section is there, and through your account can be accessed so therefore you are responsible to make sure if you don't want them to see it they cant.

I do fully understand you have your objections to the section, and you have that right, so don't go in there, don't look at the threads and you wont have to see them. But on the flip side the people that do want to see the threads, and those that want to shoot what you call soft porn have the right to show and view what they want, after all the section is set up to allow those that shoot to get constructive crit so they can improve on their chosen field of photography, is it wrong that they chose to do this, No, just as it is not wrong for you to not like it.

Personally I don't have any real interest in documentary, so therefore have no interest in a section dedicated to it, but I am not joining this thread to say, no I don't like it therefore it has no place. And if the Admins decide that yes there is a need for the section, I would not be commenting on several threads about how I disagree and it is time it was gone. I would just not go in for a look.

Sorry for taking the thread OT but felt I had to address this.
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Stop derailing the thread further. I have a lot to say to you.. but not in here. Start a new thread, tag me in it so I'll know, and I'll happily respond.. at length. Thank you.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Stop derailing the thread further. I have a lot to say to you.. but not in here. Start a new thread, tag me in it so I'll know, and I'll happily respond.. at length. Thank you.
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You started it...
Not everyone agrees with you.
 
kendo1 said:
You started it...
Not everyone agrees with you.
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I didn't. I made a comment... that went ignored for some time until YOU decided to make an issue of it actually :)

I'm happy discuss it... just in a relevant thread.. thank you. Last word on the matter.
 
Pookeyhead said:
I didn't. I made a comment... that went ignored for some time until YOU decided to make an issue of it actually :)
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Exactly, you started it. I didn't realise I needed your approval to comment on your post.
 
kendo1 said:
Exactly, you started it. I didn't realise I needed your approval to comment on your post.
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I'll continue in another thread quite happily.. stop spitting your dummy out and create a new thread if you want to chat about it :) Accuse me of all manner of things, but thread derailment is not something I tend to do much. It's a documentary thread... there's precious few of those in here as it is. Create a new thread if you wish to discuss it.
 
Pot, kettle, black...
 
Please take the discussion about perverts with cameras elsewhere. :D
 
@kendo1

Seriously... what part of this do you not understand? I'm HAPPY to discuss this... in an appropriate thread. Four consecutive replies, to which I'm consistently requesting you take the discussion to a new thread.. which you will not do.. and continue to post in this one. What exactly is your objective here Ken? Do you want to discuss it, or just cause trouble?

New thread or I just ignore you... up to you.
 
if you're so keen to discuss it David start a damn thread already instead of crying like a toddler about the nasty man not doing what you want
 
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Look, if you all want to discuss nudey shots in this thread then at least have the common decency to do a project about it! Do I have to bring us back on topic again??!

What's the next steps then for getting ourselves a sparkling new project section? Have the Admins discussed it? Do we need to get more votes in?
 
TimmyG said:
Look, if you all want to discuss nudey shots in this thread then at least have the common decency to do a project about it! Do I have to bring us back on topic again??!

What's the next steps then for getting ourselves a sparkling new project section? Have the Admins discussed it? Do we need to get more votes in?
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:agree:
 
TimmyG said:
What's the next steps then for getting ourselves a sparkling new project section? Have the Admins discussed it? Do we need to get more votes in?
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We already have a projects and themes section - as i sad further up what we need is to convince Marcel and co to coral all the 52s and 365s into their ownsub fora so that other projects arent swamped
 
big soft moose said:
We already have a projects and themes section - as i sad further up what we need is to convince Marcel and co to coral all the 52s and 365s into their ownsub fora so that other projects arent swamped
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Not having a clue who Coral is (did you mean Cobra??) I've just reported my own post in the hope that an Admin will review the request. At least if we know they are discussing it or have rejected it outright we can all sleep soundly tonight...

Edit: Ha ha! Just re-read you post. I got that wrong didn't I? :rolleyes:
 
my mistake i should have put Corral - as in to round up and enclose
 
TimmyG said:
Not having a clue who Coral is (did you mean Cobra??) I've just reported my own post in the hope that an Admin will review the request. At least if we know they are discussing it or have rejected it outright we can all sleep soundly tonight...

Edit: Ha ha! Just re-read you post. I got that wrong didn't I? :rolleyes:
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Yes it is being discussed, various options as well, see we can multi task :p
And yes you can all sleep soundly in your beds tonight.

And a final word, ( or two) can you all make like little choo' choo's and get back on the track, and stop referring to each other as parts of the human body,
or a couple of people will be getting a lay in in the morning ;)
 
Cobra said:
Yes it is being discussed, various options as well, see we can multi task :p
And yes you can all sleep soundly in your beds tonight.

And a final word, ( or two) can you all make like little choo' choo's and get back on the track, and stop referring to each other as parts of the human body,
or a couple of people will be getting a lay in in the morning ;)
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Thanks Chief!
 
This thread had a point?
Oh, aye, Dave said something like:For me photography is about documenting the world, telling stories, making statements. There must be others here who feel the same.

I just like to take pics of things that catch my eye in the best way I can, with the tools I have.
I'm still an amateur after nearly forty years of photography, I have other interests and responsibilities.
 
DemiLion said:
I was referring to the male of the species Gallus Gallus rather than a penis old boy! :D
(***as in a crowing cock)
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:D OK Mark I believe you :D

But it wasn't only you I was referring to ;)
 
Cobra said:
Yes it is being discussed, various options as well, see we can multi task :p
And yes you can all sleep soundly in your beds tonight.
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(y) Indeed it is.
Just have a little patience on this one. We need to wait for one of those adminnie types to make the final decision and of course actually implement any change that might be agreed.

FWIW though I wholeheartedly support it.
The change to having all projects under one banner with pre-fixes to identify them has never really been satisfactory IMO.

52s / 365s have always been popular challenges on the forum and just by the nature of their popularity and the regular updates they'll always dominate whatever section they're in.
Frankly, I don't think it's a case of members thinking that a 52/365 is the ONLY way to do a project - simply that anything else gets lost in amongst them and it's not clear to people that other projects do actually have a home on the forum.
You only have to look at the projects picked out in this thread to see that a lot of them are NOT in the 'projects' section which is where they should really belong in the current structure.

By having a dedicated 52/365 section and creating a separate area for 'personal or long-term projects' (be they documentary or otherwise) I suspect that more people will be encouraged and motivated to start a thread and work on a project.
I may even join in myself :D
We have the UK's oldest public cemetery just around the corner. It's one of my favourite places to visit and for a long time I've been playing with the idea of a photography project based around it.

That's not to be dismissive of the 52s / 365s BTW.
I obviously have a huge amount of affection for the 52 challenge - I completed a few years of it and I learnt an incredible amount through doing it, just as other members are now.
It's not for everyone though and there are lots of other reasons/objectives for completing a project that a structured 52 may not meet. So yes, I'd really like to see other personal challenges and long term projects actively encouraged.
 
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