Beginner doing a couple shoot, what aperture etc?

Damo88 said:
Thanks so much for your input, thats very helpfull, yes thats true ive used the gassiun blur for background work in Photoshop before so i should have thought of that :)
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Please please please please Please please please please Please please please please Please please please please Please please please please Please please please please Please please please please Please please please please....

Don't "blur" the background in photoshop.

It will look more naff than the naffest thing that was ever voted NAFFEST THING IN THE UNIVERSE.
 
That's your opinion but hate to burst your bubble but that shot is direct from direct from camera
Was shot against dark background.....
 
tom1946 said:
That's your opinion but hate to burst your bubble but that shot is direct from direct from camera
Was shot against dark background.....
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If that's aimed at me....

Nothing wrong with that black and white portrait. But the point in hand is the artificial blurring of a picture in photoshop. Don't do it. It looks horrible.
 
Wasn't aimed at you but nothing in that photo has been altered as it is direct from camera. There has been
Nothing apart from levels was used.
If I seem to have caused problems maybe I should not be here..
 
tom1946 said:
Wasn't aimed at you but nothing in that photo has been altered as it is direct from camera. There has been
Nothing apart from levels was used.
If I seem to have caused problems maybe I should not be here..
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No not at all. Your advice is very welcome. I would just caution against using artificial blur using photoshop.
 
tom1946 said:
Wasn't aimed at you but nothing in that photo has been altered as it is direct from camera. There has been
Nothing apart from levels was used.
If I seem to have caused problems maybe I should not be here..
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You're welcome here, the photo is great*, the advice to blur in Photoshop though.
Was it a joke?
Do you really think it's a good idea?

There was enough b****x in this thread before that was added to the mix, and the fact the OP seized upon it as an option, tells a tale some of us guessed at from the start.

It's fairly obvious but a sad fact that anyone who asks for settings or cheat sheets or 'a lens to do' isn't happy with the normal learning process of 'research, test, learn' and if we offer someone like that a 'lazy option' they'll jump at it.

The fact it's not the 'easy option' at all needed to be pointed out.

* you didn't post it for crit, but if you did there's improvements to be made.
 
Phil V said:
You're welcome here, the photo is great*, the advice to blur in Photoshop though.
Was it a joke?
Do you really think it's a good idea?

There was enough b****x in this thread before that was added to the mix, and the fact the OP seized upon it as an option, tells a tale some of us guessed at from the start.

It's fairly obvious but a sad fact that anyone who asks for settings or cheat sheets or 'a lens to do' isn't happy with the normal learning process of 'research, test, learn' and if we offer someone like that a 'lazy option' they'll jump at it.

The fact it's not the 'easy option' at all needed to be pointed out.

* you didn't post it for crit, but if you did there's improvements to be made.
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Im very eager to learn Phil, i got my camera in January and before that i was studying researching right from setember 2016 before making a decision, i want to "try" and make my photos even better with the oppertunity ive got and thought id post and get peoples ideas etc before hand, as ones person research isnt always the right way, although im eager to try new ways of things, i can only ask experienced people their advise etc but if they are taking the p""s out of me then its not very fair, as its like telling a kid its ok to jump off a cliff, its going to do it if thats what its told etc.

I dont mind posting work up also etc but if im just going to be slaughtered then their isnt much point :-(
 
Damo88 said:
Im very eager to learn Phil, i got my camera in January and before that i was studying researching right from setember 2016 before making a decision, i want to "try" and make my photos even better with the oppertunity ive got and thought id post and get peoples ideas etc before hand, as ones person research isnt always the right way, although im eager to try new ways of things, i can only ask experienced people their advise etc but if they are taking the p""s out of me then its not very fair, as its like telling a kid its ok to jump off a cliff, its going to do it if thats what its told etc.

I dont mind posting work up also etc but if im just going to be slaughtered then their isnt much point :-(
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I never added to the original discussion, you got the usual mix of advice from a forum. Some great, some appalling. :)
I love forums, but the built in failure is that you have to sort the wheat from the chaff. And if you know nowt to start with, that can be very difficult.

You got some great advice with pics to match from Ryan, other people I'd have taken on board being Dave and Gareth.

But that's easy for me, because I know who to trust.

So when someone offers a shortcut like 'blur the background in PS'...
Well you can see mine and Ryan's reactions, but without us doing that, how would you know it's the most stupid idea posted in this thread?

Keep reading, keep posting, the longer you stay, the easier it'll be to understand who's advice is worth what.

And nowhere did I take the p*** out of you. You're a learner, like I said it's difficult for you to know which ones of 25 different answers is any good. I hoped my point about photoshop blur would be bold enough for you to take it at face value.

Effectively someone told you to do something stupid, I've just tried to stop you. It's interesting that you see me as the bad guy for that.
 
Phil V said:
I never added to the original discussion, you got the usual mix of advice from a forum. Some great, some appalling. :)
I love forums, but the built in failure is that you have to sort the wheat from the chaff. And if you know nowt to start with, that can be very difficult.

You got some great advice with pics to match from Ryan, other people I'd have taken on board being Dave and Gareth.

But that's easy for me, because I know who to trust.

So when someone offers a shortcut like 'blur the background in PS'...
Well you can see mine and Ryan's reactions, but without us doing that, how would you know it's the most stupid idea posted in this thread?

Keep reading, keep posting, the longer you stay, the easier it'll be to understand who's advice is worth what.

And nowhere did I take the p*** out of you. You're a learner, like I said it's difficult for you to know which ones of 25 different answers is any good. I hoped my point about photoshop blur would be bold enough for you to take it at face value.

Effectively someone told you to do something stupid, I've just tried to stop you. It's interesting that you see me as the bad guy for that.
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Phil I don't mean you taking the P''s out of me bud, I meant the first guy in page 1 being so serious with his reply to then later say basically he's a p'''s taker, you've been very helpful and through my threads have always given great advise such as the flash gun thread which I have taken on board, gosh yes I take anything at face value, the end of the day I can only go by advise and such as your self and Ryan etc have given great advise with evidence to show which is what I needed.

I've got a few people including your self who I do trust on advise and will take that advise, I've had a lovely lady messaged me privately and offer support also which is fantastic, I just get a little fed up with other people who just reply with serious answer for a p'''s take.

id pot my pictures up when done but just don't look forward to p''s takers, I can take any negative criticism no problem as its how I'm going to keep learning.

apologies If you thought I meant your self Phil when I didn't.
 
Damo88 said:
Phil I don't mean you taking the P''s out of me bud, I meant the first guy in page 1 being so serious with his reply to then later say basically he's a p'''s taker, you've been very helpful and through my threads have always given great advise such as the flash gun thread which I have taken on board, gosh yes I take anything at face value, the end of the day I can only go by advise and such as your self and Ryan etc have given great advise with evidence to show which is what I needed.

I've got a few people including your self who I do trust on advise and will take that advise, I've had a lovely lady messaged me privately and offer support also which is fantastic, I just get a little fed up with other people who just reply with serious answer for a p'''s take.

id pot my pictures up when done but just don't look forward to p''s takers, I can take any negative criticism no problem as its how I'm going to keep learning.

apologies If you thought I meant your self Phil when I didn't.
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I've just realised you're just round the corner, happy to meet up for a chat.
 
Damo
I am sorry if you think iwas ap....taker as was not my intention. But I am just new to site and already seem to be in a storm with othrrs.
I only take photos of my interests and am not a professional and the most critical person of my photos is me. People have said on occassions they are good and I will pick out the faults i.e. flash burning out part of the picture etc if not flash have set apatute wrong with same effect.

Best advise is have fun and enjoy even experiment.
 
tom1946 said:
Damo
I am sorry if you think iwas ap....taker as was not my intention. But I am just new to site and already seem to be in a storm with othrrs.
I only take photos of my interests and am not a professional and the most critical person of my photos is me. People have said on occassions they are good and I will pick out the faults i.e. flash burning out part of the picture etc if not flash have set apatute wrong with same effect.

Best advise is have fun and enjoy even experiment.
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Not at all Tom is was the first guy on page 1 as i do take things as pure advise as im learning my self, as said i have used that gaussiun blur before as i do google and youtube alot of stuff but i purely came on here for everyone elses advise.

Phil V said:
I've just realised you're just round the corner, happy to meet up for a chat.
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Thanks phil id like to take you up on that if you wouldnt mind after i get back off my hols soon, id be most greatful.
 
As Ryan and all said it is better to do it in camera. I would use blur in photoshop if I wanted a viginate and basically wipe all outside it to bsically white or black although have ued it on flowers
 
Damo88 said:
...Thanks phil id like to take you up on that if you wouldnt mind after i get back off my hols soon, id be most greatful.
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Just PM me when it suits and we'll arrange a meeting.
 
ryanyboy said:
Please please please please Please please please please Please please please please Please please please please Please please please please Please please please please Please please please please Please please please please....

Don't "blur" the background in photoshop.

It will look more naff than the naffest thing that was ever voted NAFFEST THING IN THE UNIVERSE.
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Only if done badly, if you know what you're doing it's fine and undetectable.
 
I am curious as to why someone would want to spend the time blurring a background in pp, when it's not hard to do with the camera and lens.
 
ryanyboy said:
You can shoot couples at large apertures just the same as you can a single person. HOWEVER you just need to take care to make sure their eyes are on the same plain of focus to the lens. For example if one has their head 6 inches further from you than the other then chances are one of them will be out of focus. Stopping down to a smaller aperture will give you more latitude (greater depth of field) but it might not give you the background blur that you want.

The important factor is the focal length of the lens and your distance to your subject. For example if you're using a 300mm lens from 6ft F4 will likely be too shallow. Alternatively if you're using a 20mm lens from 6ft you'll find F4 to be too much with little in the way of background blur.

Personally on your 35 1.8 I'd shoot it at around F2.2 and expect the two people to be sharp (taking into account the care I mentioned above)

Certainly waving apertures of F4 or whatever around without full consideration of the factors I've mentioned above is no use to no-one.
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as promised Ryan I've got just a few of many pics, they wanted them to be ''showing off pics' so I used the gradient tool to give the sky more character to create the scene, also did a shoot yesterday as a racetrack.

I kept my iso on auto iso and adjusted my shutter speed and apperture etc

gem and bev cusworth 1 (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr

gem and bev cusworth (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr

gem and bev cusworth 2 (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr

gem and Bev 25 (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr

damen bike photography (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr

jake hallas 5 (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr

fat cats (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr
 
Good on yer for posting these. I'll stick to the portraits and offer my thoughts based primarily on your original question....

I see you stuck to the 18-55 kit lens. As a beginner I can see why you might want to stick to the safety net of the zoom. Although you would have knocked your background out more with your prime. That said, you've used the largest aperture available to you at the given focal lengths and you've got a reasonably decent background blur. This is mainly down to the fact your background looks to be a fair way back (y) I'd still like to see a softer background personally, but that is very much a personal preference thing.

In terms of posing:-

1) Unflattering to the lady in the white t-shirt. A nice moment but her leaning forward like that hasn't done her any favours.
2) Much better. There's a lot of hands all over the place but it's nice enough. The lady in black looks very relaxed, maybe not so much for the lady in white.
3) I quite like to composition and there's a nice connection. One again you have some awkward hands. A killer pose would have the lady in black looking down with her forehand against the other lady's cheek. As it is you've got her trying to look at the other lady and it looks a little odd.
4) I think the focus would have been better on the eye of the lady in black. It's on the specs of the other lady.

Ok, so that was pretty harsh. But you'll learn quicker this way. The good news is I think the couple will like them (maybe not the first for the lady in white). You've got a couple of nice compositions going on there and your exposures look ok. As a beginner you're on the right tracks and practice and experience will only help you get better.
 
Some other minor points from me...

2 - Slightly wonky horizon? The verticals aren't quite vertical, possibly a touch under-exposed. A smidge of fill-flash would've lifted them out of the shot more.
3 - My favourite. The hands could be slightly lower & more relaxed, again possibly a touch of fill-flash. Looks like you've bumped the shadows in PP which has led to a bit of halo-ing (most evident on the knees)

As Ryan says, looking at the EXIF you've shot these at 29mm and 46mm, which aren't far off the 35mm of your prime which could've blurred the background out more. Having said that - too blurred and you might lose the context slightly as the house and lake/island add to shots.

Nice shots though :)
 
Oh - an interesting exercise for you...

What are your thoughts on them? It's good to be able to criticise your own shots :)
 
ryanyboy said:
Good on yer for posting these. I'll stick to the portraits and offer my thoughts based primarily on your original question....

I see you stuck to the 18-55 kit lens. As a beginner I can see why you might want to stick to the safety net of the zoom. Although you would have knocked your background out more with your prime. That said, you've used the largest aperture available to you at the given focal lengths and you've got a reasonably decent background blur. This is mainly down to the fact your background looks to be a fair way back (y) I'd still like to see a softer background personally, but that is very much a personal preference thing.

In terms of posing:-

1) Unflattering to the lady in the white t-shirt. A nice moment but her leaning forward like that hasn't done her any favours.
2) Much better. There's a lot of hands all over the place but it's nice enough. The lady in black looks very relaxed, maybe not so much for the lady in white.
3) I quite like to composition and there's a nice connection. One again you have some awkward hands. A killer pose would have the lady in black looking down with her forehand against the other lady's cheek. As it is you've got her trying to look at the other lady and it looks a little odd.
4) I think the focus would have been better on the eye of the lady in black. It's on the specs of the other lady.

Ok, so that was pretty harsh. But you'll learn quicker this way. The good news is I think the couple will like them (maybe not the first for the lady in white). You've got a couple of nice compositions going on there and your exposures look ok. As a beginner you're on the right tracks and practice and experience will only help you get better.
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Ryan thanks for your feedback mate, I like to know so I can take advise on board, ill note down what would be better, I always take notes and go back to them if need be, I did you my 35mm prime lens a lot but for the more ''awkward'' shots where I couldn't get far enough back to get them in shot and also create a good composition I had to use my kit lens, I have loads more shots with my 35mm prime lens used, their kissing shot I used 35mm lens so I could get a nice wide aperture.

but overall I felt confidence and when out and about I could create ideas etc if you like I can post a couple more pictures in.
 
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Durbs said:
Some other minor points from me...

2 - Slightly wonky horizon? The verticals aren't quite vertical, possibly a touch under-exposed. A smidge of fill-flash would've lifted them out of the shot more.
3 - My favourite. The hands could be slightly lower & more relaxed, again possibly a touch of fill-flash. Looks like you've bumped the shadows in PP which has led to a bit of halo-ing (most evident on the knees)

As Ryan says, looking at the EXIF you've shot these at 29mm and 46mm, which aren't far off the 35mm of your prime which could've blurred the background out more. Having said that - too blurred and you might lose the context slightly as the house and lake/island add to shots.

Nice shots though :)
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Durbs said:
Oh - an interesting exercise for you...

What are your thoughts on them? It's good to be able to criticise your own shots :)
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thanks for your input :).

I agree with shadows and possibly using my flash more, I used my flash to fill out shadows in a woodland area when one model had sun in her face and the other shaded, I also got my model to close her eyes and count to 3 and then open and I snapped so that her eyes didn't appear squinted. on the bridge part I think the shadows appear more harsher as I've gone further down with my gradient tool and I've used clarity and dehaze which I think may have made the shadowing more noticeable but to the couple this won't even be noted.

I think they will love their photos but for my own criticism I think I could of got better focus, a few shots are slightly out of focus but the picture still looks lovely if that makes sense, but just something I have noted down and will keep on practising. These photos are also for free I didn't charge anything, its mainly for my purpose and they can get some nice shots.

overall I am happy with the photos
 
(More in relation to the first set) I think I would be much less concerned about background blur and more concerned about light and posture, getting it right in camera and worry less about PP. There is enough subject isolation in these shots for it to not really matter if the other parts are right but sadly they aren't. It is perfectly possible to get great shots with your kit, just need to work with its limitations rather than against them.

Also, I would say that thinking about the background is as important as anything else.
 
Damo88 said:
Ryan thanks for your feedback mate, I like to know so I can take advise on board, ill note down what would be better, I always take notes and go back to them if need be, I did you my 35mm prime lens a lot but for the more ''awkward'' shots where I couldn't get far enough back to get them in shot and also create a good composition I had to use my kit lens, I have loads more shots with my 35mm prime lens used, their kissing shot I used 35mm lens so I could get a nice wide aperture.

but overall I felt confidence and when out and about I could create ideas etc if you like I can post a couple more pictures in.
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Sure, go for it!
 
ryanyboy said:
Sure, go for it!
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the first 2 were taken with my 35mm prime lens and the others were taken with my 18-55mm kit lens

gem and Bev non sig 22 (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr

gem and Bev 26 (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr

gem and Bev 18 (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr

gem and Bev 5 (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr

gem and Bev 6 (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr

gem and Bev 2 (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr

gem and Bev 13 (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr

gem and Bev 27 (1 of 1) by damen ford, on Flickr
 
Good effort. A few of the shots look under exposed, but definitely a good attempt.

With regards to what aperture some great advice already here. One thing i'd say, which i'm surprised wasn't mentioned (well not what i say anyway) was... do a bit of everything! These are adults and will keep fairly still (not kids where movement is unknown). If you're ever unsure just do a variety of shots and see what works best in post. It only takes seconds to turn the dial for your aperture, so play about with it - the best way you'll learn.

One other thing, a lot of these look like posed shots. Why not try some natural ones. This can come down to us interacting with them. For example, my favorite is to ask couples to think of their favorite vegetable, then get one of them to whisper it the others ear seductively, normally makes them both laugh as they do it and you get some good natural photos. Often the in-between shots can be some of the best.
 
Definately 27 really like. When they where walking down path should have tried to get them to turn round and jump in the air.
Seen this done before with some great results
 
thanks for your input guys, this was really my first ever couple shoot, so I'm taking all the advice on board :), I'm deffo gunna take Phil up as he's very in the know about a lot of things, I'm really grateful for everyones help.
 
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