Drone near miss at Heathrow

StewartR

StewartR

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FFS. Common sense surely. So there's a need for a 2.4ghz blocker device, or tracker. Airports you can be done for endagering,
 
Some people just don't think.
Can you imagine if that drone had got sucked into the engine.
 
Hmmm! Trouble is where there is big boys toys there will be some 'big boys' who behave like 5 year olds......might need one to go to jail to drive the point home!

However this in the report caught my eye "The code also says that drones carrying cameras must stay at least 50m away from people, vehicles and structures and must not approach a large group of people closer than 150m.". Now is this the safety elves 'speaking' or a privacy question.....is the sky a public place or a private place in regard to an expectation of privacy?
 
Near miss in Warsaw yesterday too.
 
Ahem ...

It's just a matter of time. And I speak as a builder and flyer of RC model aircraft ... :(
 
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Serendipitous Sid said:
Ahem ...

It's just a matter of time. And I speak as a builder and flyer of RC model aircraft ... :(
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We've flown model aircraft, helicopters safely for years at a local area, which is now banned as some idiots decided to fly bigger an bigger panes whilst the area was used by dogwalkers etc.
 
Byker28i said:
FFS. Common sense surely. So there's a need for a 2.4ghz blocker device, or tracker. Airports you can be done for endagering,
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First find the pilot... Maybe all drones should have transponders on them so they CAN be identified IF they're being used unlawfully. Problem would be enforcing the retrofitting to all existing machines. Would add to the cost of the devices but they're not exactly cheap toys anyway!

As for when a ban is likely, probably 10 minutes after I buy one!
 
i have just got in to multi-rotors/quadcopters (i hate the term Drones) started flying a mini one and bought a larger camera enabled one, although I am not daft enough to fly near a airport, i could if i wanted on mine, but some do have GPS location based No-Fly Zones built in, so if you are in one, the quad just won't arm itself and fly

I agree there must be something done about them flying were they shouldn't, but there are so many DIY kits out there, it would have to be built in at a equipment level to stop them if it was GPS based, but then some don't use GPS
 
Box Brownie said:
Hmmm! Trouble is where there is big boys toys there will be some 'big boys' who behave like 5 year olds......might need one to go to jail to drive the point home!

However this in the report caught my eye "The code also says that drones carrying cameras must stay at least 50m away from people, vehicles and structures and must not approach a large group of people closer than 150m.". Now is this the safety elves 'speaking' or a privacy question.....is the sky a public place or a private place in regard to an expectation of privacy?
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It is part of the air navigation order. Or "Air law" as it is more commonly known. Just as there are laws about what you can do in the street, so there are laws as to what you can do in the sky.

I'm not familiar with the "code" for drones but it sounds similar to the 500ft rule that we have to comply with:
Except with the permission in writing of the CAA, an aircraft shall not be flown closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle or structure.
 
Box Brownie said:
Hmmm! Trouble is where there is big boys toys there will be some 'big boys' who behave like 5 year olds......might need one to go to jail to drive the point home!

However this in the report caught my eye "The code also says that drones carrying cameras must stay at least 50m away from people, vehicles and structures and must not approach a large group of people closer than 150m.". Now is this the safety elves 'speaking' or a privacy question.....is the sky a public place or a private place in regard to an expectation of privacy?
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Safety.
 
I imagine that they're won't be any new rule changes, however the existing rules may well become more rigorously enforced then they are at present. Those rules, if entered to are certainly more then strong enough.
Nod said:
First find the pilot... Maybe all drones should have transponders on them so they CAN be identified IF they're being used unlawfully. Problem would be enforcing the retrofitting to all existing machines. Would add to the cost of the devices but they're not exactly cheap toys anyway!

As for when a ban is likely, probably 10 minutes after I buy one!
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Transponders are big and heavy(& expensive) thats not really a solution. A few years ago the CAA tried to mandate them for para and hang gliders. Aside from the weight issue they fairly quickly dropped the idea when they realised that two or more aircraft flying in close proximity generally causes havoc in ATC systems. I think somme sort of simple serial number registration may be better.


npinks said:
but some do have GPS location based No-Fly Zones built in, so if you are in one, the quad just won't arm itself and fly
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out of interest how do they work in somewhere like London, where the whole place is controlled airspace but there are places you can legitimately fly?
 
I just checked my DJI Pilot app. There are plenty of small airports where there are no-fly zones to be seen on the map. It would be impossible for my Inspire to take off in one of those zones. However there are no no-fly zones over London marked on the map. Huge oversight by DJI!
 
View attachment 42333

Aerodromes have control zones (from the ground up) Heathrow and City Airports have these and they cover all of central London from west to east up to 2500ft agl and these should be on your chart. It's unlikely that you will be allowed to fly in Category A airspace without a transponder or prior written permission from the CAA. The rest is London TMA (control area) which starts at 2,500ft agl which shouldn't affect you at the height you are allowed to fly. You can fly under (and over) controlled airspace.

Do you guys check NOTAMS in case of royal flights etc. before flying?
 
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Brian_of_Bozeat said:
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Aerodromes have control zones (from the ground up) Heathrow and City Airports have these and they cover all of central London from west to east up to 2500ft agl and these should be on your chart. It's unlikely that you will be allowed to fly in Category A airspace without a transponder or prior written permission from the CAA. The rest is London TMA (control area) which starts at 2,500ft agl which shouldn't affect you at the height you are allowed to fly. You can fly under (and over) controlled airspace.

Do you guys check NOTAMS in case of royal flights etc. before flying?
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I wasn't referring to air maps, but the maps built into the DJI App used with the Inspire 1 and Phantom 3 drones. I wanted to see if it was possible to use the latest generation of drones over London airports. Seems it is. Personally I don't have the aeronautical charts for that part of the UK because I live in Wales.
With regards to NOTAMS, do you really think these fools even know what they are?
 
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Oh I see, so you don't have to carry the half million map? I thought that would be a regulation (I have to). Regarding the notams, I was referring to you guys who are licensed, doing your self brief before a flight. The hooligans won't give a toss, they're the ones who will end up costing you guys a lot of money when the CAA clamp down.
 
Brian_of_Bozeat said:
Oh I see, so you don't have to carry the half million map? I thought that would be a regulation (I have to). Regarding the notams, I was referring to you guys who are licensed, doing your self brief before a flight. The hooligans won't give a toss, they're the ones who will end up costing you guys a lot of money when the CAA clamp down.
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Assuming that's you in the photo you're quite a lot bigger, heavier and can realistically expect to travel far further. Your requirements are a bit stricter
 
Brian_of_Bozeat said:
Oh I see, so you don't have to carry the half million map? I thought that would be a regulation (I have to). Regarding the notams, I was referring to you guys who are licensed, doing your self brief before a flight. The hooligans won't give a toss, they're the ones who will end up costing you guys a lot of money when the CAA clamp down.
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Aviation map reading exercises form part of the Pilot Theory training and feature in the exam. Every operator should have the maps for the areas in which they fly, as referring to them is part of the pre-site survey and planning process.
 
This drone thing is getting stupid now. Maybe they should be banned for the public after all. Anyone needing one professionally would be willing, and able to apply for a license and anyone operating one without a license should get whacked with a massive fine. Price that license prohibitively high and it will put joe public off, but a professional will just charge the client to recoup the costs. Let's be honest, all amateurs use them for is to take the same images of the same boring crap, except from the air. No great loss. Joe Public just can't be arsed with any pilot theory training, not obtaining maps, so make that a requirement to even buying one, and that will solve the problem.
 
As I have said before, the licencing and/or training should be for everyone who wants to use one, not just those who want to use it commercially. There shouldn't really be a distinction.


Steve.
 
So do you license model aircraft flyers too? Do you only legislate against 4-rotor, 6-rotor, 8-rotor craft or include the person that flies a remote replica of a Spitfire?
 
Think its all a load of old **ll**** and media hype. As a pilot yes its a frightening thought, but at around 150 mph, the average speed of landing an airliner, you just CANT SEE a drone!
Its gone by in a flash. Strewth a big bird like a seagull or eagle whilst physically smaller is easier to see and they don't see them when they hit em or suck em through an engine!
Just an excuse to legislate, regulate and charge through training and license fees.
Apart from the common sense aspect of course, but that's been bread out nowadays hasn't it thanks to TV and the Yanks?
 
Ricardodaforce said:
So do you license model aircraft flyers too? Do you only legislate against 4-rotor, 6-rotor, 8-rotor craft or include the person that flies a remote replica of a Spitfire?
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I don't know. My thoughts are just that it should be all or none. Professional/amateur use shouldn't make a difference.


Steve.
 
Whilst we're legislating against it, let's add school trips and bungee jumping to the list. Couple of tragic deaths this week.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Aviation map reading exercises form part of the Pilot Theory training and feature in the exam. Every operator should have the maps for the areas in which they fly, as referring to them is part of the pre-site survey and planning process.
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Carrying a current "half million map" is mandatory for VFR Pilots, the series covers the UK in 3 maps - (1) Southern England and Wales, (2)Northern England and Northern Ireland, and (3) Scotland. So I am assuming from your answer that you are using the (much more useful in my opinion) 1/4 Million [1:250,000] series? Is this a regulation or a recommendation? I am only bringing this up as I have a tip for you, I use memory maps on my Ipad and the electronic charts work out much cheaper than the paper version, it also easier to jump between scales as they overlay on top of whatever other maps (O/S maps etc) you have on your device (I use a gps enabled Ipad). Have a look...

http://www.memory-map.co.uk/mm-caa-1-250000
 
Where and how high you can fly a kite is regulated, why not drones and model aircraft?
 
Brian_of_Bozeat said:
Carrying a current "half million map" is mandatory for VFR Pilots, the series covers the UK in 3 maps - (1) Southern England and Wales, (2)Northern England and Northern Ireland, and (3) Scotland. So I am assuming from your answer that you are using the (much more useful in my opinion) 1/4 Million [1:250,000] series? Is this a regulation or a recommendation? I am only bringing this up as I have a tip for you, I use memory maps on my Ipad and the electronic charts work out much cheaper than the paper version, it also easier to jump between scales as they overlay on top of whatever other maps (O/S maps etc) you have on your device (I use a gps enabled Ipad). Have a look...

http://www.memory-map.co.uk/mm-caa-1-250000
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Yes I have 2 of the 1/4 million maps. I am not obliged by law to have them but it would be both stupid and incredibly difficult to do pre-flight checking and risk assessment without them. I'll check out memory map later. Thanks for the information.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
That should be the case IMO if it's not already, yes.
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Whether it be a kite, RC plane or a multi rotor helicopter, you have to obey by the rules outlined by the air navigation order/CAA. All RC fliers that fly in a traditional club usually have to have a BMFA licence in order to fly as it proves that they can do so correctly and understand their rules. However, you can fly without one when in the company of a member. Clubs are monitored by the BMFA and are located away from sensitive areas.

In order to fly any RC aircraft professionally (for commercial gain), you must have a BNUCs licence which is a CAA approved body.

The issue, as others have stated, is people flying 'drones' (hate that media-derived term as well) irresponsibly. They should be limited to club flying only, as they were before the advent of 2.4GHz transmitters. The low cost and almost throw away nature/ease of flying means that any idiot can buy one and cause havoc. There was never an issue in the past with traditional RC helicopters as they were expensive and hard to fly. They should tax multi rotor devices, but then this penalises the serious user as well.

No easy way out of this one unfortunately. I believe the maximum punishment for causing a collision in restricted airspace is 5 years, and rightly so.
 
edster said:
In order to fly any RC aircraft professionally (for commercial gain), you must have a BNUCs licence which is a CAA approved body.
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Unfortunately, this seems to be the wrong way round. Generally, those flying for commercial gain will be the more responsible and will follow the rules whereas the amateur, especially with the more automated devices are less likely to care or even know what the rules are.


Steve.
 
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